UESPWiki talk:Oblivion NPC Redesign Project

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Archive 1: Feb 2008 - Apr 2009
Archive 2: May 2009 - Oct 2009
Archive 3: Dec 2009 - Apr 2010

VIP Dialog[edit]

This "Wall Of Text" approach is completely unreadable to me, especially when it involves multiple conversation options rather than a simple "A says, then B says, then A etc" progression. In Amusei's case, it's 13 solid lines without a single piece of formatting. You're doing a great job with these reworks Krusty, but considering the amount of time and effort you're putting into them already, if someone's dialog is "important enough" to be added to their pages it should be important enough to take a few extra seconds to actually make it legible. As it stands, it might as well be Lorem Ipsum. Maybe it's just how I read, but there's a reason why written languages have things like paragraphs. :) - Ali

Like I said, the Amusei stuff my Sandbox is a work in progress and is nowhere finished, formatted or anything else. My Sandbox is my area and has nothing to do with a finished article. In fact, you have no business editing it at all without my permission - but I gave it to you because you added some useful info. But it is NOT a finished article and I have barely started writing the page. So - there is no reason to complain about my Sandbox, discuss it or anything else. When I finish the article and add it to Amusei's official page, we can discuss- but right now, my Sandbox is personal and I can work any way I want when writing NPC pages.The finished article will end up with images, spaces between events and so on - but just let me work on it and everything will be fine. --Krusty 16:15, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Ah, okay - didn't know that about sandboxes, sorry. I got the impression from your "all the VIP dialog is unformatted" comment that the WallOfText was deliberate and it was going to stay that way, which I thought was a bad idea. - Ali

Thieves Guild Fences[edit]

To solve a bug mentioned on Fathis Ules' page, I checked the other Thieves Guild fences - and found out that none of them will offer any services while traveling from one place to another. This behavior only concerns fences, not trainers and merchants. It is probably some clever design idea about being "discreet" while doing illegal business, but may cause confusion if we do not mention it on the NPC pages - and maybe even here as well. Thoughts? --Krusty 15:06, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea to mention it on the Thieves Guild page, probably just as a short note under the heading Fences. I believe that it doesn't need a special mention on the NPCs' pages, since it falls under the entry Services and it will therefore be added anyway. Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 17:13, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, I think it is a bit complicated to add the info to the NPC summary; for example "Available 6am-6pm except when traveling" sounds a bit off to me, but maybe it is okay. I have tried to come up with an explanation on the Fathis Ules page in my Sandbox. --Krusty 20:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
What about the Argonian in Leyawiin (his name is slipping my mind at the moment) that only fences when traveling (or so I have experienced)?--Corevette789 20:10, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I haven't checked him for a full day yet, but his wander package in downtown Leyawiin (he does that a lot) is not traveling - but as soon as he heads for, say, the Five Claws Lodge, he will close down his bartering services until he arrives. That is the problem - it is pretty confusing. --Krusty 20:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Checking[edit]

Firstly, how does on go about checking an NPC's added information e.g. house contents. Sir Amiel here has house information noted (lives at the priory) but the page for priory of the nine doesn't point out notable loot. Would it be wise to verify the current information as he does live in the priory, or (would in addition to that) it be better to add notable loot ect. to the page for the priory then go and confirm all the priory residents house loot.

Secondly how do i add to the ONPCRP table that i have verified the information? - Emoboy64 23:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

First, in the case of people like Sir Amiel, you can probably add that you've made the edit and - where necessary - add a {{Incomplete}} tag to the house page with details of what needs to be done.
Second, for each parameter of the template, there's a corresponding "checked" parameter to show who checked it. See {{cleanup-obnpcrp}} for more information. Hope that helps! rpeh •TCE 23:16, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Can I check infomation in game that was written in game, or is it limited to CS checking only? Emoboy64 22:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
You can only check info written from the CS, but there should be plenty. GK always writes from the CS and she have been extremely busy. Rpeh and SerCenKing always writes from the CS as well. Take a look around in the House Unchecked category and you are bound to find tons of work. --Krusty 22:44, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Missing additions[edit]

I have noticed on a few pages of the ONPCRP that some people haven't added there addition and name to the table. Would it be stupid of me to add there names and contribution to the list or as i (hopefully not out of turn) already have done for this user leave a polite note on there talk page about them adding there name to the project list. - Emoboy64 23:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

It's usually bad form to add somebody else's name, but in cases like this I think it's rather different: the idea is to record who made certain changes so that questions can be asked if necessary should a problem occur - and also so that credit can be given. If somebody has made a full, detailed edit then adding their name to the tag is fine. If somebody made an edit along the lines of "Also, you can find a bottle of wine in a crate"... then not so much. A patroller will be double-checking anything like that anyway, so don't be too worried. rpeh •TCE 23:19, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks rpeh, and i dont want to sound aggressive or abusive in any way but with the user i mentioned earlier who unfortunately didn't add his name to the brilliant edits he had done(these being in march time)and his mistake had unfortunately been failed to be picked up by the recent changes moderators/patrollers. I know that the patrollers work there best - you for example but i am kinda upset for the guy who didn't get this pointed out by them. I could go on a rant but i again i don't want to sound aggressive, so long story short, with your permission i would like to (hopefully) go and add his name to the pages he has edited and give him his deserved credit. Thanks! - Emoboy64 23:30, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
I suppose my point is that if somebody's edit is good enough to be part of the project then: yes. Their name should be in the tag. If you think the edit needs substantial corrections/additions before it's good enough, then leave it off.
Thank you for the great work you've been doing on the project! I'm glad we've got another active editor on board. rpeh •TCE 23:55, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Question about the "Bugs" section[edit]

This page says that the Bugs section of an NPC's page should be used to report any errors in a character's scripting. Does this mean we should include errors in which another NPC refers to said character incorrectly? For example, I know that in Skingrad, you may hear a rumor about Falanu Hlaalu being referred to as a "he" when she is a she. Tea ache sea 03:38, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Check the bugs section of the page you linked. --SerCenKing Talk 11:43, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

My changes to the Beggar pages[edit]

Just to clarify in case anybody is wondering what happened: I did a complete check during all the Thieves Guild quests to see when the beggars provided quest updates. Oddly, updates were not provided during Misdirection or Boots of Springheel Jak, so what I basically did was deleting the related quests with no updates - and added all the quests where updates happened. I also decided to change the layout a bit - and removed the headers. It might look good in some cases, but when there comes a few notes underneath, the layout becomes messy. That's why I changed that. Now all beggar pages are consistent and provide the correct information about related quests, and that was the goal. --Krusty 18:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Where should I start?[edit]

Well, I just recently, ten mintutes ago, made an account here. Mostly due to using this place for some time now. Anyway, is there anything specific I should start dealing with, if there is a need for something? Ah, yes, I cannot do much on the technical side of things since I play on the 360. King of Killing 16:13, 30 May 2010 (UTC)King of Killing

any where you want to;) and if you want to join just put your name on the list and tere's a list of people who need working on on the page--GUM!!! 17:10, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Hey there! An easy place to start is the inventory section. Make sure you have characters with different levels (a low-level and a high-level to check if the NPCs equipment is leveled) and go kill some NPCs, with both characters. Write down their inventories when they are dead - and add it to the page. Also, unique dialogue can be an easy one to start with. Choose some NPCs with no real quest involvement and just approach them, write down their greeting and whatever info they can provide about their hometown. Theses are the easiest categories and a good place to start. --Krusty 18:13, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Krusty has more or less covered it all, but I'd add the "Quests" category. Just check the involvement of a given NPC to a quest and write what he does/says in relation to it. --SerCenKing Talk 19:09, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone mind if I join the project as well? I can't claim to have any editing experience and I play on the Xbox, but I would be happy to help by verifying and adding some of the sections that I can find on my platform. If it's alright to join, I should be able to get to work right away. --Veckatimest 14:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Feel more than free to join. If you have any questions (some of it should be covered above), don't hesitate to ask. --Krusty 15:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
And I was wondering as well if I may join the project. I also don't have a whole lot of experience with the Wiki, but I have played Oblivion since its release. Kalis Agea 02:41, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Hey! Of course you can join- for places to start, take a look at my answer above. Note that all inventories are written by now, so there is only the the checking-stage left in that category. Remember that if a text was written from the CS, the checking should be done in-game and vice versa. Take a look at this section for more info on what needs to be done - and feel free to ask me on my talk page. --Krusty 07:44, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I have returned.[edit]

After an unfortunate but necessary hiatus I have returned. I am going to continue my work on the NPC Redesign Project and anything else I can contribute to the wiki. Got my own 360, finally and now have reliable net access, so I should post fairly frequently.

Azeg-Rael. Argonian- Warrior Sign- Dark Knight Class. 10:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you to Everybody[edit]

SerCenKing has already thanked most people individually, so rather than post additional thanks everywhere, I'd just like to say "Thank you" to everybody who has helped on the project so far. The headline figure of "100 completed NPCs" understates how far the project is towards completion, because many NPCs are only one or two checks away from joining that 100. There's no doubt, though, that none of these improvements would have been possible without the effort of so many people. Thank you all once more. rpeh •TCE 20:54, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

100th NPC Stat Bonanza[edit]

This is a list of all the various OBNPCRP sections written by each person as of 17 Sep 2010 22:45, BST. All I can say is that Krusty really needs to stop messing about and do some work - he's hardly written any NPC spells sections, and hasn't checked a single faction! Appalling!

It may not be 100% accurate (note the joint AMM/Krusty entry - there should be more of that kind of thing) but it gives you the basic idea. My thanks again to you all for your efforts, but particularly to Krusty!

BTW: the initial order is just what RoBoT spat out. Nothing significant. rpeh •TCE 21:47, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh my goodness, an imposter Arch-mage Matt? :) I need to hunt for that guy's edit... and fix it... --Arch-Mage Matt Did I Do That? 21:57, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Here's your imposter! Take the law into your own hands and do whatever you feel you need to do with this information. ;) Robin Hoodtalk 07:50, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Layout[edit]

It's unclear to me how the actual layout should be, I've seen pages with dialogue topics, and others without, etc. Are there any preferences about this? Perhaps it could be decided if it has not been already? I haven't seen any information about this, could someone clarify this? ~ Dwarfmp 09:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'm understanding you completely... Do you mean they have the "Greeting":... and "Chorrol":...? If that's what you mean, we use topics very rarely, and only if there are masses of dialog that are more easily grouped that way, for example with SI NPCs. As a general rule, try to avoid using them. --SerCenKing Talk 18:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
I mean a dialogue section for example, just like a notes section on the bottom many NPC's have. But, you say it's preferred to keep things smooth, with only paragraphs for distinction. I will keep that in mind then. ~ Dwarfmp 21:00, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
The NPCs with "Unique Dialogue" sections either haven't been done yet or have huge amounts of dialogue, which means breaking up the page is the only way to keep it readable. For almost all NPCs, keeping things without headings is the way to go. rpeh •TCE 06:38, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Guard Greeting Bug - Complete List[edit]

Okay, a lot of the named Guards in Cyrodiil suffer from the Greeting Bug, a bug that causes their regular guard-dialogue to take precedence over their greeting. All the greetings were recorded but cannot be heard in-game at any time. Since we already added the missing dialogue bits as audio files on the pages of Decentius Opsius and Danus Artellian, I figured we might as well be consistent about it. So I investigated and approached each and every named guard in Cyrodiil and checked in the CS at the same time - and came up with the complete list found below. I also added the missing dialogue on all the pages marked with a (Greeting Bug Added), so these are the pages that needs audio bits for consistency.
I was unsure where to put my results, however, as I'm unable to extract audio bits - this page seems right, though. Hopefully, some day, we can get all the missing audio bits up and running.

Anvil

  • Gogan (Dialogue bit probably unused because of the quest: "Hi, I'm Gogan. How's it going?")
  • Hieronymus Lex (No Anvil greeting)
  • Langley (Greeting bug added)
  • Maelona (Dialogue bit probably unused because of the quest: "I'm Maelona. Gogan's wife.")

Bravil

Bruma

Cheydinhal

Chorrol

Imperial City

Leyawiin

Skingrad

--Krusty 11:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I believe I've added all the unused dialogue, although all the file names use an underscore rather than a hyphen. mxk101Talk 15:35, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Brilliant work, Mxk101! I just listened to each and evert one of them, and it is a very nice addition to the pages. Thanks! --Krusty 14:51, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
All of confirmed ones were fixed by Arthmoor in the UOPS. I had to make one change for Itius Hayn's greeting to work as the Corruption and Conscience greeting was blocking it but the rest I verified to work. I didn't tag all of their pages as I will be doing that when the next UOP is out, as it will incorporate and deprecate the UOPS. Kivan 00:57, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Image Cleanup tags[edit]

I'm getting RoBoT to add {{cleanup}} tags to all the non-square images we've got. In the past, I've tended to target those NPCs who already have the tag, and it's a waste of time to find out that when you were taking one picture, you were standing within 10 feet of another NPC who also needed one.

The criteria for the tag is strict: anything that isn't perfectly square will be tagged. If you find a 1000x999 image, don't remove the tag: download the image, trim off whatever needs trimming, then re-upload. I'm sure people will wonder at the utility of tagging almost square images but my reason is simple: anything not perfect means we have to draw an arbitrary line. What is acceptable? 1001x1000? 1020x1000? 1050x1000? This is one thing we should be able to do easily so let's do it. rpeh •TCE 23:11, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

New project member[edit]

Hey, i decided to try and do my part of this project, and have just started with a revamp for Modryen Oreyn in my sandbox. Is there anything i need to do to add my name to the list of the project members? Razor 22:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Not at all! Simply go ahead and add your name. Welcome to the team and good luck with Modryn! --Krusty 22:57, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

All inventories written![edit]

I just filled out the last inventory, it wasn't easy but now all NPCs should have their inventory listed. --AKB Talk Contribs 20:12, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Wow! I hadn't realised things had come on that far. Well done to everyone who's helped. rpeh •TCE 05:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Oops, totally missed this post last night! A big thanks to everybody involved - now for the in-game CHECKING of the inventories... ;) --Krusty 10:53, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Ah! Thats great! I can start checking some via the CS later then! - Emoboy64 11:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Time for another stat bonanza! The biggest difference is that some seriously productive new members have appeared: Alpha Kenny Buddy, Dwarfmp, Mxk101, and Rigas Papadopoulos (plus a helpful appearance from RoBoT!) have all helped. rpeh •TCE 13:09, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Are you are allowed to check the edits that you made? mxk101Talk 16:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Nope. The idea is that somebody different does the checking to make sure nothing funny is going on. Ditto the in-game/CS combo. rpeh •TCE 16:46, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Why did Arch Mage Matt get credit for entries along side Krusty and I? Just a bit curious.--AKB Talk Contribs 16:50, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Edit:Now that I'm thinking about it should we remove the inventories from the Adding information sub-section, since there is nothing needing to be added right now. --AKB Talk Contribs 16:51, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I assume AMM had written part of it and you/Krusty finished it off. Or the other way around.
I suppose that link could come off, but it's not critical. rpeh •TCE 17:00, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
We have several pages and categories shared by two editors; it typically happens when the project evolves and additional info is added to a category months after it was "finished". Only 40 new schedules since september? I must be getting old! --Krusty 17:05, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I hadn't realized how much i had done! Still much more to do! - Emoboy64 18:11, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I just hope everybody remembers what I've always said: The goal isn't to do it: the goal is to do it right.. Let's not start to rush because the end is getting closer. It still needs to be done with proper care. rpeh •TCE 18:19, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Just wanted to add a detail about dealing with inventories; if a NPC carries around some kind of spare clothing, it is definitely worth mentioning if he/she ever wears it (for example, all the Sir's at the Priory of the Nine will slip out of their armor when they go to sleep - or check out when Uzul gro-Grulam wears his fur armor). This is all part of "getting it right" - inventory-wise. --Krusty 21:57, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

The Curious Case of Ruslan and Luronk[edit]

I have done the Imperial Corruption quest more times than I’ll admit, and one thing is for sure; neither Ruslan nor Luronk will EVER meet up with Itius Hayn to testify. I have tried every technique available for the in-game stalker and it is a fact that the two victims will simply seek out the District where Itius patrols, and never talk to Itius himself. After entering the District, they will exit right away and go back to their usual routines, now with a set of new dialogue (Itius will have new dialogue as well) and there will never be an actual conversation. I think this needs a check in the CS so we can include it as a note – and in time, hopefully with the missing audio added, right next to their missing “greeting” – see this section for details. --Krusty 12:13, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

It seems to be another problem with the way Find packages work - I recall this exact problem with some other NPC.
Ruslan and Luronk have a Find package with Itius a target that runs at 8am for just 1 hour. The trouble is that it's target is Itius Hayn In the "Northwest Watch Tower" and he's not there at that time - he's patrolling near the west gate of the Elven Gardens District. I'll try to take a look in-game myself so I can get a better idea of what's going on. rpeh •TCE 14:29, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Let's finish ANVIL!!![edit]

Okay, we are so far along with the project that I figured it would be both fun and useful to narrow down our efforts to one of the major towns. While this task is completely optional for all project members, I hope everyone involved with the OBNPCRP (project members or not) will participate in one way or the other. For a slightly “easy” task, I picked Anvil. A lot of the Anvil pages are nearly complete and if we all give it a shot, we can close down the town.
I have created a LIST of the Anvil citizens already finished by the project and although it looks a bit overwhelming, many of them can be crossed out in a flash. Feel free to update the list if you finish a page, and let’s do this! --Krusty 15:43, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Ebony and Ivory...[edit]

...Go together in perfect harmony, unlike many NPC summaries. Whilst working on the project, I see many un-harmonized NPC summaries ranging from bold house names and standard, to things like these three: Storn, Dranas and Aenvir. I would like to go around ALL the NPC pages (if possible) and harmonize them so they bear a level of consistency, but before that, I need to know how they should be. Things like house names being in bold for both the owner and in-habitants, or just bold for the owner. This is a relatively simple task, but before I do set out and begin, I need some help. Any input on the harmony of the summaries will be appreciated, and if you need some further clarification on this confusing thing, do ask! Thanks - Emoboy64 23:43, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I’m not sure this is an “easy” task. Lets focus on the three examples at hand; these are quest-specific NPCs and it is almost a matter of personal taste whether they appear on the Anvil Dockside (my choice) or Lelle’s store. One could argue that they spend more time on the Dockside than inside the store and that is why I think it’s a matter of opinion. To make the task harder, we don’t really have a list covering the quest-specific NPCs, except for this list, which is rather helpful but still covers a lot of other NPC types (like Jearl, who owns a house but is disabled until Spies). Because of these facts, I think it is a hard cleanup-project to take on – mostly because there might be people who disagrees about a location like this (me included, and, to make matters worse, that is a “house” header), and because it is hard to narrow them down. Let’s hear some more opinions on the quest-specific NPCs. In an attempt to keep this simple, I’ll narrow it down to this question: should we ALWAYS use “location” when it comes to quest-specific NPCs? --Krusty 08:19, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I think that would be a good idea. It'll bring consistency to the pages. I would also like to hear more views on that topic though. Going back to what I previously stated about the template, these two NPC's ; Grey Throat and Luronk gro-Glurzog have standard text and bold text respectively in their 'houses' sections. This is one of the things I would like to fix, as well as what Krusty stated above about the quest NPCs. I do believe it a relatively simple task, be it slightly ambitious. Citizens of cities will be simpler than quest and roaming NPC's, granted, but over-all, with some standard guidelines layed out, I think this could be done without much problem. - Emoboy64 14:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Looks like something I could help with[edit]

Maybe I'll take a crack at this project, it looks interesting. --The Para 12:24, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

I did some quest summaries.[edit]

I typed up quest summaries for Larthjar the Laggard and Claude Maric. Tell me what you think? You can see them here and here. --The Para 03:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Very nice. It would also be keeping in theme with the much larger NPC pages (the recent update to Shivering:Sheogorath, for instance). The little bit of extra work would make the articles much nicer looking, although it might not work out for some of them. Legoless 13:23, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I made a comment on your talk page. --Krusty 13:27, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Could I join?[edit]

I am curious as to if I can join.--Iamgoofball 21:11, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, just add your name to the list of members. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 21:13, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
So we just throw our hats in? No need to ask or anything? --ZombieMonkeyNZ 05:37, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, you don't need any special permission to join. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 05:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

NPC Age[edit]

A recent discussion over the age of the Adoring Fan made me wonder about including NPC ages on their stat sheet. While the information has little real value, I think it would give each NPC a rounder background and could serve as a kind of "trivia" thing. I'm not sure how wise it would be to muck around with the current NPC template, but I thought I would bring up the idea here anyway. Legoless 16:20, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea, but what is the real value of listing "Middle aged" "Young" etc... because most NPC's do not have an exact age ever mentioned. It just doesnt seem to be worth the effort when you can see the relative age by looking at their faces.--Catmaniac66 16:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Like I said on the discussion linked to above, an NPC's age can be seen in the Construction Set. By looking at their 'Face' tab you can see their exact age (or at least the age of their face, if that makes sense). Legoless 17:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
My bad, I read that discussion I guess in its infancy and missed the part about the CS letting you see age, I just assumed the discussion stopped there and you brought it up here :-D! In that case, Im all for it as long as someone is ok with doing it.--Catmaniac66 17:31, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I've ran into a potential problem. People such as Uriel Septim (whose age is exact in the lore) and Carahil (who is pretty old, but looks young) might need notes explaining any odd ages that show up in the CS. After all, it's not the first time an NPC summary could be confusing (e.g. the Black Hand all being rank 'Murderer' of the DB). Legoless 17:52, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Right now, I think we should focus on the huge tasks and projects at hand and not evolve them any further. Once upon a time, NPC Summaries also contained the correct pronunciation (yep, HOW to say the name correctly), which was basically useless info and was deleted quickly. If we start this whole age-thing a lot of pages will have to be re-worded and changed (and, as you say, notes wil have to be written) – and to be honest, it is too much of a CS-thing to be of real interest to most users. --Krusty 07:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Speaking of this, do the NPCs age? Masquerain 04:05, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

The Skooma Den Mystery[edit]

Just to remind myself, and others, about this old investigation that definitely needs attention. It involves four Skooma-addicted NPCs and it is pretty interesting stuff. I really hope somebody can help solve it because the investigation is getting old – and I have a feeling all four schedules are dead-wrong. If somebody with the CS could take a quick glance and solve this mystery for one of the NPCs, all of them will be solved. --Krusty 22:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Developer Notes[edit]

Many times while going through the CS I've run into developer notes on dialogue and such. I've been wondering what should be done with these? They are somewhat interesting but it is pretty much impossible to include them into the article; they are hard to explain in the notes but are bulky and cumbersome if included in the article. I've been more or less ignoring them but I think there should be some standard dealing with them. Maybe make a list of dev notes for characters and what they refer to on the talk page? --AKB Talk Cont Mail 05:35, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

200 finished pages!!![edit]

200 pages DONE!


Just though I'd mention it! Congratulations to everybody involved with the project!

--Krusty 18:09, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Now if only a certain user and his bot could produce another stat table, that would be nice ;) - Emoboy64 18:45, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Your wish is my command! rpeh •TCE 21:00, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Yayy!! Thanks for that rpeh - Emoboy64 14:54, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Haha, number three on most dialogues written! You better watch out rpeh, I'm going to overtake you :-) It's nice to see the project going along so smoothly. We should hopefully at least finish the write before Skyrim is released at this rate (Checking and Final Review are another story though). --AKB Talk Cont Mail 20:56, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

The Martial Law[edit]

I was going through and making a list of the residents of the Imperial City that need to have their house inventory posted, and I noticed that in most of them there is a note at the end of the Schedule paragraph saying that their schedule is only changed by the Martial Law during a certain quest that requires they stay in their homes. I was wondering if that is something that should be added to all Imperial City resident pages, or if we should just remove it and leave it out completely? Masquerain 03:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

No. Consensus was reached a while ago in this discussion to keep the Light the Dragonfires-exception to Temple District-residents only; after all, it takes place in that District. I'm aware that some editors still adds the exception (it is clearly marked in the CS), but just let it be for now - we have a complete Final Preview-phase to go through, and we will sort it out there. --Krusty 05:24, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup Template[edit]

So, this cleanup template at the top of the uncompleted pages, how would that be edited? I recently added some information to a page for the house inventory and I have not been able to figure out how to remove the name from the House Not Written category or edit the template to say the house inventory has been completed. Masquerain 04:09, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

You simply add you name using the formal brackets and all that to the template. An example; if you have written anything (like a house) add your tag like this - if you have checked any house contents and/or inventories, you just fill in the appropriate categories like this. Also, when looking at you recent additions to the house sections, they are a bit too short. Either take the "incredibly-detailed-approach-meant-to-be-shortened-later" - like this or the easier and more "correct" way of describing houses - like this. --Krusty 07:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! I will redo the sections I have done. I had them a bit longer at first, but I wasn't really sure how to write them and so I shortened it. But the link to Tove was very helpful for this section. Masquerain 17:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

TOC[edit]

I added the TOC because, logically, it would benefit a page of this size and length to have one. We should avoid forcing readers to scroll that much. Now, I am not a fan of how it falls in the article, but I think it is necessary. Elliot (talk) 02:25, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's fine, but a lot of other pages namely on NPCs are that long or longer and have no Table of Contents... Just look at other Count/Countess pages or for Guild leaders... --Pickle 02:30, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, it's a circle the OBNPCRP has wrapped around itself. It makes the articles so big... yet it is designed to ignore TOCs. This one can be removed for now, but something uniform should be decided (i.e. either these articles need a TOC or that they are just too big). Elliot (talk) 02:33, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps we could hide the TOC by default? It allows them to be used and ignored a little easier. Elliot (talk) 02:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
That sounds like a good idea to me. It would eliminate spacing problems, which leaves no reasons to not exclude the TOC as a standard for longer articles.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 02:48, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
And by hide, I mean setting it to where the default if equivalent to clicking the 'hide' button on the TOC. Elliot (talk) 02:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Elliot is right, the VIP NPC pages should definitely have a TOC enabled - I have no idea why I didn't add the thing back in the day. These days, all VIP articles has the TOC, so it should be under control (Janus was one of the very first). That being said, a TOC is not wanted on long NPC pages, only on VIP pages. --Krusty 04:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Question about checking...[edit]

If the content has been written from one source, does it need to be checked by the other? Let's say someone wrote a schedule from observations in-game. Does this schedule need to be checked by the construction set? The same goes for the opposite - if it is written from the CS, does it need to be checked in-game?

I ask this because I primarily work from the CS, and a lot of the content that needs to be checked is written from information found in the CS. I didn't know whether or not this guideline is required, and I wanted to ask before I continued working on the project. --Zamboneh 02:36, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Something written with the CS needs to be check in-game, and vice-versa. Unless of course it says that it was written both in-game and with the CS, than do the check with whatever you wish. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 03:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
However, keep in mind that Factions and Spells can only be checked and written in the CS.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 03:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
A "None" spells line can be checked at a really basic level by attacking the NPC and seeing if they use any spells, but that's hardly conclusive. In general, Kalis Agea is right. rpeh •TCE 06:01, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Alright, thanks for the info. --Zamboneh 12:25, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Faction Changes[edit]

(these comments were originally posted on User_talk:Rpeh)

Hey, thanks for cleaning up behind me ;) Is it standard practice to avoid adding categories for factions that are added successively? --SerCenKing Talk 10:03, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it's standard practice not to include the new factions in the infobox at all (see Hieronymus Lex for instance), but I think we might want to change that. rpeh •TCE 10:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Hmm, I think it's better to include all info if possible. I was basing my edits on Nephele's edit to Falcar's page. Thanks for the heads up in any case. --SerCenKing Talk 12:30, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Interesting - if we have two different styles then we definitely need to sort out the "right" way of doing it. rpeh •TCE 12:34, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
This is good question. Just to provide another example, check out Audens Avidius’ page. Here, we have a good explanation of the faction changes as the “story” progresses, and I really like that technique. Looking at it again, I realize that all his factions (as far as I know) are included in the NPC summary, even ones he does not initially belong to. Maybe it would be better to list all factions (including ones the NPC will join later), without too much storytelling, in the NPC summary? --Krusty 17:52, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
When factions are added or removed, there needs to be detail in the main article to make it plain what happens when. Putting them in the NPC Summary is probably a good idea, but if you find yourself doing that, please make sure the relevant Faction_(x) article notes the move. All moves should be mentioned, but I might have missed some. rpeh •TCE 17:58, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I went ahead and added faction changes to Bernadette Peneles, Toutius Sextius and Davide Surilie. I didn’t add it to the NPC Summary, just mentioned it in the article, where it was appropriate. In their cases, the faction change is so conditional that it hardly deserves a mention in the Summary. In all three cases, the related faction mentions none of the three, for obvious reasons. I just thought I’d mentioned it as an example. Btw, I really hope it is correct! --Krusty 19:21, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Possible addition to the redesign project?[edit]

I noticed on Shivering:Nanette Don's page that it is a solid wall of text with nearly NO sections or anything to make it easier on the eyes or for quick edits. Full details of the conversation can be found here, but I believe that NPC articles longer than a certain length should be divided up into sections somehow, either by quest or location or time period or SOMETHING. Thoughts and votes are appreciated. —SkoomaManiac 03:47, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Nanette Don[edit]

Skoomamaniac maybe her life could be divded into 2 parts: her life in Passwall and her life in Xasalem and have those two divided into all the necessary parts of the ONPCRP. --Ruby Maximus 04:28, 4 October 2011 (UTC)Ruby Maximus 10/4/11

An Open Request[edit]

I am nearing the end of my two VIP projects, Hannibal Traven and Raminus Polus (sandbox 14 and sandbox 16 of my page.) Anyone is welcome to respond and help with this. Firstly, I am in need of a few quest related images for both pages, so if anyone has any free time I would appreciate your input. Secondly, Raminus and Traven have alot of rumors related to them. If you view the discussion page of the sandboxes you will see all of rumors related to them. I have striked out the rumors I have heard. Any that are not stricken, I have not heard. If you happen to stumble across any of the rumors left, please strike them off the list and add them to the appropriate quest and leave a little note on the discussion page confirming which rumor you heard in-game and if possible, what stage in the Mages Guild questline. Many thanks. --Manic 13:08, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Status of the Remaining Pages[edit]

Okay, following a request from Krusty, here's a list of the OB NPC pages along with the number of items written and checked. I've removed all the 9/9 entries because they're all "done". What remains will let you see how much needs to be done on a page to finish it - so basically nobody wants to touch Vilena Donton, but Andragil is almost done.

Statfest! Enjoy! rpeh •TCE 23:39, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

300 Finished NPC pages!![edit]

Shamar drinks to 300!

Time for one last celebration before Skyrim!!! This evening, we reached completion of 300 NPC pages, as evident here. Pads on the back to everyone involved - may it long last! --Krusty 21:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

How to use the Construction Set to see schedules?[edit]

Title is the question. I might be digging up a dead project, but I'm not particularly interested in following around an NPC for a few game-days. Pinpinolo (talk) 10:49, 12 December 2013 (GMT)

The schedules are in packages attached to the the NPC, with each package containing the instructions of what the NPC does, and a start and end time. Keep in mind that for the project, schedules must be written or checked by the construction set and in-game, so if it was written using the construction set, it should be checked in game by following the NPC around for a few days, and vise-versa. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have :) Jeancey (talk) 10:58, 12 December 2013 (GMT)