User talk:RobinHood70/Archive2014

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This is an archive of past User talk:RobinHood70 discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

And i've begun... kind of![edit]

I've not yet posted my sandbox as i'm still picking through them, though the first bit will be Top List just the DB part (this is going to be a *long* project). See this: No Global modifier, no chancenone but 75 in the title got my attention. Check the last two items on the list and look at their chancenone... is this modified by a script or can it really only give out the two standard crossbows? -- Kiz (email - talk) 18:46, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

This is a case where the globals (LVLG in the CS List) come into play. Dwarven crossbows are disabled in the list until you discover them as part of Ancient Technology. After that, they become available. As for the 75, you'll see this sort of thing a fair bit: either they changed their minds at some point but kept the name, or they just forgot to add the Chance None. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:06, 28 December 2013 (GMT)
Right, so i'll leave a html note to myself about that for when I link it around so I can work something out, thanks! -- Kiz (email - talk) 20:14, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

Tangent: I just found {{HE}} is it possible to use that in conjuction with {{LE}}, since using both together isn't possible and causes some nice classid= to appear. Or is it possible to do with a work around and i'm just too tired? -- Kiz (email - talk) 20:30, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

I just tested in your sandbox, and I think that's probably the effect you're looking for (or you can move the {{HE}} up to right after the |- if you want the whole row to be highlighted, though I'm not sure how well it'll deal with the rowspan. There's no need to use {{LE}} just to create an anchor, since {{HE}} does the same thing. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:41, 28 December 2013 (GMT)
That works, and shows you the right bit of the table, I presume it would select the row if it wasn't for the rowspan? Thanks again :) -- Kiz (email - talk) 20:45, 28 December 2013 (GMT)
I just changed it to nominally do the whole row, but it does what I was afraid it might with the rowspan and only highlights the top row. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:48, 28 December 2013 (GMT)
I'll stick to the box, I can sense that this just isn't going to be easily possible for the little gain -- Kiz (email - talk) 20:49, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

Update: I'm done for the night, it's linkified, highlighted. All thats left (for that small, small section atleast) is the links under 'Item' which will need the next set of tables, which will then need the next set of tables. Will we use redirects for all those as well? -- Kiz (email - talk) 22:50, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

You need to get rid of the "style=" before the {{HE}}, cuz right now, it's not linking. I have no idea how we want to do the links, but probably a large set of redirects is the best way to go. See if Alfwyn has any other ideas or concerns with that plan, though, in case I'm not thinking of something. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:55, 28 December 2013 (GMT)
Styles all removed! Magic ;) I'll ask him when I next see him, I can leave links till last really, but it would be a lot of redirects, bot produced? I know Alfwyn created some for book leveled lists the other day! -- Kiz (email - talk) 23:00, 28 December 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, definitely we'd want to do those by bot. It should be an easy task for it, much like the various faction redirects. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:01, 28 December 2013 (GMT)
Right, the Dragonborn section is ready to go, i'm holding off on adding the item links because I clearly started in the wrong order (there are standard game items in the list that cannont be linked to without that list first. And an idea on page names would be helpful, when i'm more complete i'll start a discussion on the Leveled Lists page. That's split by Top List, Sub List, Sub Sub List. I'm thinking that the Skyrim ones will need further split down, a weapons page, armor page etc. Thoughts? -- Kiz (email - talk) 15:44, 6 January 2014 (GMT)
Looks good! As you say, we'll want to link item names where possible, but that's a chicken-and-egg scenario. I'll see what I can do to get item names for the non-list items from Nephele's database, since mine's not up to that yet. I agree that in Skyrim space, we'll want to split it out to a few different pages or subpages—I'm sure it'll be much too long otherwise. I'd want to take a better look at what all we're working with first, though. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2014 (GMT)

Raldbthar Elevator Bug?[edit]

Hey RH! I’m writing a walkthrough for Lost to the Ages, a Dawnguard affair, and one of the shards needed for the quest is inside Raldbthar. Obviously, the easiest way (if you have already cleared it once) would be to go through the back entrance (the elevator) to the Raldbthar Market, but the building with the elevator is suddenly shut tight – even if I have cleared the ruin and everything. Does this has something to do with installing Dawnguard? Does it reset the place (I know it fixes the bug with the bones in the cylinders near the last room), but will it shut off the shortcut as well? I hope you can answer, as there is a long way through Raldbthar for one small shard. --Krusty (talk) 16:34, 3 January 2014 (GMT)

I'm not well-versed in how resetting things all works, but from what I understand, it looks like the door will automatically reset to locked whenever the exterior cell resets. Oh, and that doesn't appear to be Dawnguard specific. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:18, 3 January 2014 (GMT)
Hmph, that's pretty ridiculous - seems like my walkthrough will be expanded with four sections. Anyway, thanks for looking into it. :) --Krusty (talk) 20:37, 3 January 2014 (GMT)
One more for good measure. How long does it take that exterior cell to reset? ;) --Krusty (talk) 21:14, 3 January 2014 (GMT)
I have no idea at all how that works, nor have I ever found anything in the CK about it...I suspect cell resets are handled by the game engine itself. I have to assume it'll follow the rules on Skyrim:Respawning. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:21, 3 January 2014 (GMT)

Community feature![edit]

Hello Robin Hood, dear! Just wanted to let you know you've been featured in our Community Interview! This is shared with everyone at UESP and on our social media pages. Congratulations and enjoy your 15 minutes of fame! :) Please let me know if anything looks incorrect. Thank you for participating...I owe you a sweetroll! --Avron the S'wit (talk) 03:13, 11 January 2014 (GMT)

I made one very minor change to it on re-reading it, but otherwise, it looks good. Thanks! Robin Hood  (talk) 03:47, 11 January 2014 (GMT)
Fabulous - thanks for the little clean up, too! One day I will master wiki code. ;) --Avron the S'wit (talk) 04:18, 11 January 2014 (GMT)


Hey RH! Just a little-bitty problem with Sibbi Black-Briar. I found this on Brynjolf’s cs-list page: (link) and I can’t figure out what it is about. Also, I found a few dialogue lines for Sibbi mentioning Brynjolf (like "Brynjolf sent you to rub it in?"). As far as I know, Sibbi is not involved with Loud and Clear – and I have zero clue why the Promises to Keep quest is there. Can you somehow figure out if the relation between Sibbi and Brynjolf was skipped? Thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 20:49, 13 January 2014 (GMT)

Resolved on IRC. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:34, 13 January 2014 (GMT)

Solitude Dialogue[edit]

Hey RH! Another one. This time about a few conversations, one of them recently added to Jaree-Ra’s article, although I chose to dismiss it back in the day as ‘non-existent’. Can you take a close look at the DialogueSolitudeDocksScene3 (Vittoria Vici), DialogueSolitudeDocksScene2 (Argonians), and DialogueSolitudeDocksScene1(unknown), and see if they will ever be used in-game? And exactly how they work? I’m pretty sure the one on Jaree-Ra’s page is slightly wrong as the three Argonians will never meet (Gulum-Ei only leaves for the docks during the TG quest), but I can’t be sure. Thanks! --Krusty (talk) 06:03, 14 January 2014 (GMT)

Okay, let's take these in numerical order:
  • People who can be involved:
First speaker: Vittoria Vici or East Empire Dockmaster.
Second and third speakers: Deeja, Jaree-Ra, or Gulum-Ei.
  • Conditions: As long as any of the right people get close enough, this should run. Gulum-Ei has the issues you noted, but I think this should run with only the other two argonians and either of the employer-types. If Gulum-Ei just happens to be walking by, he can get pulled into the convo as well.
  • Dialogue:
First speaker: Big shipment coming in later tonight. I need you three working late.
Second speaker: Oh, we'll make sure it's emptied out by morning. You can trust us!
Third speaker: Yeah, we'll get the valuables out of there, no problem!
  • People who can be involved: Deeja, Jaree-Ra, or Gulum-Ei. (Each has specific lines, as noted, there's no intermixing who says what like in the one above.)
  • Conditions: All three are required to be present, so this can only run when Gulum-Ei is heading for the EEC or when he's heading back. Obviously, a very rare event, but technically it should be possible to trigger this, I believe, as long as he heads there or back during the day when the other two will be there.
  • Dialogue:
Jaree-Ra: My contact, she says Hammerfell steel is much desired by certain parties.
Gulum-Ei: I know of a ship coming in from Hammerfell. Some cargo might get "lost"...
Deeja: Why should we settle for half a fin when we could just take the whole whale?
Jaree-Ra: Patience, sister. Patience.
  • People who can be involved:
  • Conditions: Greta is the main blocking point here. Since the conversation can only take place at the docks, she has to get there in order for this to take place. I don't believe any of her packages ever get here anywhere close, though.
  • Dialogue:
Greta: Got any work? I ain't begging. I just need a job. Anything.
The response is "randomly" picked from the ones below, though Deeja is the only one who actually has more than one response to choose from:
Any of the Argonians: Shoo! Go away! You get nothing from me.
Deeja: You bother me again, maybe you will not walk away. Understand?
Dockmaster or Vittoria: Sorry, I have everyone I need at the warehouse. Times are tight.
Robin Hood  (talk) 22:36, 14 January 2014 (GMT)
Thanks for the help! I personally think all these conversations are so unlikely to occur that they belong in the notes section of the NPC pages. First of all, Deeja never moves an inch on the docks (she seems to be stuck), and when Jaree-Ra finally goes to work, he gets stuck in the same spot as well. Gulum-Ei will pass them only once (and he is probably programmed to enter the EECW and not stop for anything), so – to be honest – I doubt any of the convo’s will ever happen. It may be something for the patch guys though. --Krusty (talk) 13:08, 15 January 2014 (GMT)
Or perhaps an "Unlikely and Impossible Conversations" page (perhaps with a better title) that documents the specific "how to get it to happen" for all these different conversations that'll almost never happen? I do and don't like that idea, honestly, because it puts them all in one place and we can work out a nice format to present the required circumstances for each to occur, but on the down side, we then have an abstract page that has to be linked to, and it could easily get cluttered if there are a lot of conversations like this. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:03, 15 January 2014 (GMT)

Faction combat rating[edit]

Looking over CSList changes, I remembered an issue your bot might help. Skyrim faction pages currently show a disposition boost which is plainly wrong (see Skyrim:Factions V for example). Instead that value is a combat reaction modifier as shown in the CK and explained at the CK wiki. I tried to fix that manually, but the sheer size of the pages made me stop in the middle. The Dragonborn faction pages (see [[Dragonborn:Factions M]] for example) take the combat reaction modifier word, and translate them to a relationship rank value. But that doesn't really agree with the modifier as described on the CK wiki. So probably the best thing would be to actually use the words found in the CK, call that whole thing accordingly (it probably has nothing to do with disposition boost at all) and link to a page "Skyrim:Group Combat Reaction" (redirect to section on Skyrim:Factions) explaining the meaning. --Alfwyn (talk) 16:36, 16 January 2014 (GMT)

I guess this means I have to parse more of the faction info than just the name, then. :) I'll have a look into it and see what I can do. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:31, 16 January 2014 (GMT)

Slowly but surely![edit]

I've made (slight) progress, but what I would like to know is this: That list however contains several entries nearly identical (steel mace|ID=0004B582), would it be possible to list them under one but with the level (the only difference) as "4, 5, 6." to save space? --Kiz(email - talk) 13:00, 21 January 2014 (GMT)

I don't see a problem with that, as long as you list each and every level for any list (like that one) that has the AllLevels flag, since the number of repeats affects the chances that something is chosen. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:36, 21 January 2014 (GMT)
Since i'm working on the page, just take a look at this entry (or anyone else is free to do so) with regards to what causes the change. Cheers! --Kiz(email - talk) 17:20, 23 January 2014 (GMT)
That's stage 500 of Healing a House. --Alfwyn (talk) 18:12, 23 January 2014 (GMT)
And thankyou, i'll stop asking question for the day. --Kiz(email - talk) 19:04, 23 January 2014 (GMT)

Maul Dialogue[edit]

Hey RH! I’m struggling with an article for Maul in this sandbox and I have a problem with three dialogue lines, that I just can't trigger. I have put them in the notes section – I was hoping you could help solve the puzzle and provide some conditions? Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 23:14, 25 January 2014 (GMT)

The first looks to be completely unused. The other two are contingent on Maul not liking you, which looks like it can only happen if you talk to him about the Black-Briars (here). I got lost at that point, because it branched out in several directions, but I think it's tied into him standing on the docks near the Riften Warehouse. I don't remember him having that dialogue, so it's possible they're unused, but then again, I'm almost never out at the docks. Let me know if you want me to look into this a little deeper when I'm more clear-headed. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:32, 26 January 2014 (GMT)
Thanks for the help so far. It would be quite nice if you could look a bit more into it, as the only thing I can think of is to insult him at the introductory scene (leaving the conversation before he has a chance to get to the persuade round), then join the Guild, then talk to him when Loud and Clear has begun (and you are a member of the Thieves Guild Faction). This will take me an awful long time to test, so if you can somehow “skip ahead” from insulting him, to Loud and Clear, then we can bury the lines as unused. --Krusty (talk) 15:51, 26 January 2014 (GMT)
A little in-game investigation combined with the CK gave me the answers: both the last two lines are spoken in game. The "doggie" one happens when you first meet Maul on entering Riften. Ask him who the Black-Briars are, then exit dialogue and that's what he'll say. Despite the doggie references, it has nothing to do with whether or not you're a werewolf. The "slip up" line happens if you go see him after doing Taking Care of Business. Once I exited the conversation, that's what was said, but that only applies if he doesn't like you. If you've persuaded him, bribed him, or shown him an Unusual Gem, he will like you and end conversations with "Be seein' you around" instead. It looks like that holds for the entire rest of the game after Taking Care of Business. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2014 (GMT)
Hmm, when I exit conversations at that point, it looks like something pops up in the subtitles, but it is soon replaced with "Hey, you. Get over here, I want to talk to you." – it may be slightly bugged, but at least I know where to put it. I take it that the first line is still completely unused? --Krusty (talk) 22:06, 26 January 2014 (GMT)
As far as I can tell, yeah. I see nothing in the CK that uses it, and I tried a few different things in game and it never showed up. Maul has another line that's very similar, so I suspect it was replaced and the old one was never removed. As for the "Hey, you" bit, had he said that to you before? It could've just been some kind of minor timing issue. For me, he said that first, then spoke to me when I got close, then went through the whole Black-Briar convo. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:22, 26 January 2014 (GMT)
No, if I leave the conversation, he will not talk to me anymore and will be on his way to the docks. In any case, thanks for the help! --Krusty (talk) 23:22, 26 January 2014 (GMT)


Gold Star.png
You have been given a gold star!

Welcome to the team! –Krusty (talk) 16:28, 27 January 2014 (GMT)

Thank you! Robin Hood  (talk) 17:49, 27 January 2014 (GMT)
Congratulations, you might want to update your userpage... ;) --Kiz(email - talk) 17:59, 27 January 2014 (GMT)
LOL, yeah, I'll get to that and the various project pages that need updating after breakfast. I've been too busy looking at something Alfwyn posted, and now that I've responded to that, I need food! :) Robin Hood  (talk) 18:26, 27 January 2014 (GMT)
Seven years, thousands of edits, a bot with its own set of thousands of edits, server work, and incredible friendliness and the patience to help out anyone who needs it (notably me with the problems that take merely purging my browser cache :p )... This advancement to administrator was a long time coming. Many congrats, Rob. Have fun with all the extra rights and buttons and stuff! -damon  xoxo 02:51, 28 January 2014 (GMT)
Congrats, RH, and welcome aboard! :). eshetalk 16:21, 29 January 2014 (GMT)

() Congratulations Robin. Word of advice, don't browse recent changes from a mobile device. You will absolutely hit the rollback button, no matter how much you try not to. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 16:23, 29 January 2014 (GMT)

Image name question[edit]

Question for the "freshly baked" admin (congrats!) The question is right here. I am chasing those guys through the Hall of Valor so that each hero can have a picture on the page, but not sure what is the proper way to deal with them... Thanks! Shuryard (talk) 03:51, 28 January 2014 (GMT)Shuryard

Replied there. And thanks for the congrats! Robin Hood  (talk) 05:37, 28 January 2014 (GMT)

Maven Conditions[edit]

Hey RH, old admin! Here’s another complex task, that it will take me forever to test in-game, but should be quite easy with the CK; is it possible for you to fill out the six empty condition tags in this table? Thanks in advance! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 14:31, 31 January 2014 (GMT)

Hello again! Thanks for the help so far. I have two additional questions, one easy, and one extremely hard (take a guess). I’ll start with the easy one though: Once she is appointed Jarl, she will leave her old life behind and live in Mistveil Keep. Can you see if she will leave the Keep for the Bee and Barb during Dampened Spirits? ☺ --Krusty (talk) 23:31, 1 February 2014 (GMT)
Yes, it looks like she goes to the Bee and Barb unconditionally for Dampened Spirits. What's the hard question? I'm not cluing in. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2014 (GMT)
Hello again! Thanks for another check! Now, time for the big one – it is, of course, Maven’s involvement in Diplomatic Immunity and her willingness to cause a distraction at the Thalmor party. Now, I have collected all the supposed dialogue in this section, and we need to figure out what to do with it, and IF she will ever create the infamous distraction. To explain my Sandbox a little; I only have one save before the party, a save with the entire TG quest line completed, and very little else. When I went to the party, she would offer me the dialogue above the notice, while all the other dialogue was absent. To make matters worse, her distraction is presumed ‘impossible’ to trigger, although we lack evidence and reason. Lastly, Dwarfmp claims that he actually MADE her do a distraction once upon a time, but probably before all the official patches – and he is now unable to recreate it. I’ll see if I can make him chime in here and explain what’s been tested and whatnot, but you get the picture. This is ridiculously hard to test on PS3, so here’s hoping it is easier with the aid of a PC and the CK. In short, we need to figure out if the “missing dialogue” will be spoken, and why – next, if it is possible to trigger the distraction-topic at all, and finally, if she is willing to make the scene with poor Razelan. I’ll do anything I can to help, so just ask me here or on the IRC. Thanks in advance, and may I add: Good luck! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 10:42, 2 February 2014 (GMT)
The only requirement is that you be Maven's friend. I don't see any way to do that, however. I've looked at all the quests she's marked as being involved in and other than making her Jarl (which precludes her being at the party) I don't see anything that makes you her friend, not even if you blab about stealing Frost or get her the Quill of Gemination. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack, though, so I can't say conclusively that it's impossible, but if it is possible, it's buried in some unexpected quest somewhere. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:36, 3 February 2014 (GMT)
Just to be clear, I never got her to do a distraction or anything like that, but my first character has her as a friend, and I don't know what I did or when I did it for that to happen. Note that on that playthrough, I had given Riften to the Empire through the peace meeting. Whether that made her a friend is doubtful, but unimportant, since that happened after the Thalmor Embassy quest anyway. With a new character, I've played through all the obvious quests and checked relationship status every time I finished one, and found no difference. So unless some weird irrelated out-of-the-blue quest does alter it (which is even less likely), it's safe to say the requirements for the dialogue simply can't be met ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 00:08, 4 February 2014 (GMT)
Season Unending was what changed it for me, but that bumped her straight up to Confidant. The only other thing I can see maybe doing it is if she's able to give one of the favour quests or something similar that's not mentioned on her page. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:13, 4 February 2014 (GMT)
Well then that's probably what happened in my first playthrough. Favor quests? You mean radiant quests? Aren't they supposed to be on her page if she's a possible target, and do those even raise disposition? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 00:17, 4 February 2014 (GMT)

() At some point, someone started using "favour quests" to refer to any of the quests that can raise disposition and count towards the "favours" you do to become Thane in each hold (e.g., Skyrim:Thane of the Reach#The Reach Favor Quests). As it turns out, that's actually most of them that aren't guild quests and the like. They don't necessarily have to be radiant, but many are. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:25, 4 February 2014 (GMT)

If she's jarl, that would exclude her from the party anyway, and you can't unjarl her unless you hand over Riften through Season Unending, which is after the Thalmor Embassy quest, so that's not an option ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 00:41, 4 February 2014 (GMT)
EDIT: Wait I misread, you mean one of those minor quests as part of helping people, well she doesn't have any of such quests does she? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 00:43, 4 February 2014 (GMT)
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. As far as I know, she doesn't, but I meant that perhaps there's something we missed somewhere that she actually can be a part of. Doesn't seem likely at this point, but as difficult as it is to spot disposition changes given the myriad ways to do them, it's not entirely out of the question. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:46, 4 February 2014 (GMT)
I've done the quill quest, I helped her daughter and all kinds like that, it didn't make a difference. Unless she's part of a kidnap thing from the Companions or something, I'm confident to say there aren't any. Besides, those would be on her page ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 00:52, 4 February 2014 (GMT)
Okay, it sounds like the distraction is (sadly) out of the question. Can you cross-check the dialogue underneath the notice, just to make sure that it is all unused? I can’t trigger it whatsoever, but just to make sure… ☺ --Krusty (talk) 03:54, 4 February 2014 (GMT)

() This one always shows:

It looks like if you haven't completed Stage 30 of Dampened Spirits, you can trigger this line these lines (which is what I got in in-game testing):

What brings you to this party? "To maintain relationships. By the way, I don't know who you are, but unless you want me to blow your cover, I'd advise that you avoid me for the rest of the party."
What's your relationship with the Thalmor? "We have a relationship of mutual respect. I care little about the politics and rivalries between the Thalmor and the Empire. But I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone."

If you have completed Stage 30 of Dampened Spirits, however, you'll get these two lines instead:

I didn't know you had dealings with the Thalmor. "Have you learned nothing about me? I have dealings with everyone. Now, leave me. I don't want to arouse suspicion by talking to someone that clearly doesn't belong here."
Are you here on guild business? "Don't mention the Guild. In fact, it's better if you don't speak to me at all. This is not the place."

Of course, since you can't have Dampened Spirits running if you want her to show up, I don't think the Stage 30 bit has much relevance. I'm guessing it was originally intended that she could be here while Dampened Spirits was running, but they changed it later.

None of the other lines will show, since they're all related to the distraction. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:51, 4 February 2014 (GMT)

Odd. With my savegame (with the TG quest line finished), I only get the "I didn't know you had dealings with the Thalmor." and "Are you here on guild business?" options, so the "What brings you to the party?" option (along with the "realtionship with the Thalmor" option) seems to become unavailable after finishing Dampened Spirits? --Krusty (talk) 08:17, 5 February 2014 (GMT)
You're right, I missed a condition last night. So, they come in pairs then, as adjusted above. Robin Hood  (talk) 09:48, 5 February 2014 (GMT)
Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks! --Krusty (talk) 15:28, 5 February 2014 (GMT)
Gah, I was hoping Diplomatic Immunity had the last problems involving Maven. However, I can’t trigger this rumor fra Anuriel. Can you see if it is unused, or provide some conditions? "Maven Black-Briar is the owner of the largest and most profitable business in all Skyrim, the Black-Briar Meadery. We're pleased to have her in Riften. She brings stability, opportunities for employment and strategic value to our city." --Krusty (talk) 23:10, 6 February 2014 (GMT)
No problem. There is indeed a condition that blocks it from ever showing up. There's a variable that's supposed to allow the dialogue to be available, but that variable is never actually set by anything, so the dialogue will always be unavailable. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:44, 7 February 2014 (GMT)
Thanks. I have added the bug to Anuriel's page for now. :) --Krusty (talk) 04:55, 7 February 2014 (GMT)

Userbox stealer[edit]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? ;) --Xyzzy Talk 16:08, 2 February 2014 (GMT)

LOL, indeed! Actually, I liked it better for the fact that someone else out there actually cares about this stuff. ;) Robin Hood  (talk) 21:08, 2 February 2014 (GMT)

Bots Requests[edit]

Hi Robin. I noticed the Bots/Requests page is named differently to all the other requests pages (Image Requests, New Page Requests, Purge Requests, CK Requests). Would you have any objection to moving the page for consistency? Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 20:08, 13 February 2014 (GMT)

Yeah, sure. It made sense at the time, but in retrospect, UESPWiki:Bot Requests makes a lot more sense. I'll go do that (just letting you know, so we don't both try to). Robin Hood  (talk) 20:12, 13 February 2014 (GMT)
Okay, done. I switched all the prominent links, but I left talk pages and archives untouched, and the redirect in place, for those who might be used to just typing it into the search box. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:25, 13 February 2014 (GMT)


You just prodded that page on the basis that it's unused, but there are still quite a transclusions to the page. Unless you're going to run through and change them to something else? Just to add on, i'm not opposing the deletion, just the fact that it isn't unused. I've probably missed a discussion somewhere on the subject... --Kiz(email - talk) 19:32, 14 February 2014 (GMT)

WTF? I just checked the What Links here and there was nothing. I must've clicked on it from the doc page or something without realizing. I'll revert. Thanks! Robin Hood  (talk) 19:34, 14 February 2014 (GMT)
Quite alright, I wasn't sure if i'd missed something and you were going to remove them all in some way after the fact... --Kiz(email - talk) 19:37, 14 February 2014 (GMT)


Hiya, RH – yep, I’m back and I have questions! I’m writing a page for Gissur in my sandbox and I have a few huh-tags for some quick CK checking. First of all, he’s got six lines of dialogue meant for MQ201, but I can’t trigger them. Can you find a way? Second, will he stay in the Thalmor Embassy courtyard until it is time to be teleported to Riften, or what does the packages say? Thanks in advance! Best, --Krusty (talk) 05:02, 26 March 2014 (GMT)

To answer the second question first, since it's the easiest: He'll teleport to Shavari once you escape the embassy.
As for the dialogue lines, I'm confused which ones you mean, because you have two different "huh" tags, but neither of them is six lines. The first tag, he's supposed to say one of the five lines randomly. I'm assuming that's the one you were referring to. I don't see anything in the CK that suggests he wouldn't say them, given time, but I'll look in game if I have something close to there. (Update: I do hear those in-game as long as I'm stealthed.) You'd probably have to be completely stealthed in order to hear them because he'll stop if he goes hostile. The second "huh" tag is for the three lines of dialogue where he's hostile. That could be an oversight or it could be a change in plans, as he's only made passive again after you escape the embassy. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:22, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
Thanks - and yes, I was definitely unclear about the huh-tags. The first one is there because I couldn't make him say the lines at all, he just attacked (do you have to wear the Thalmor Hooded Robes?). The second one was placed for an in-game check if you managed to get him talking - will he say all the lines? Feel more than free to edit in the sandbox, as I'm not sure what you mean by 'attack lines'. :) --Krusty (talk) 21:59, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
You'll probably want to reword/reformat, but I think it's clear now. I did check that you can pacify Gissur and spotted the bug I noted on the page in the process. You may want to move that down to the Bugs section, but I left it there for now, since it sort of flows out of the previous sentence. Actually speaking to Gissur after he's pacified may be difficult, since not everyone else there was as easily pacified, so they'll start attacking while you're still trying to speak to him. (At the least, Rulindil wasn't affected by my Harmony spell.) I didn't have any Illusion bonuses, though, so it's possible those might've helped. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:23, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
I think I've got it all now - thanks for the help! :) --Krusty (talk) 12:16, 27 March 2014 (GMT)

Page creation permissions errors text[edit]

Hello. I very recently found out that page creation is disabled (for general users?) until the hubbub around ESO dies down a bit. First and foremost, while attempting to create two redirects in the lore namespace I noticed that the Permissions Errors message is a bit out of date:

"You do not have permission to create pages, for the following reason:

If you are trying to create a Dragonborn-related page here, you are doing it in the wrong namespace. Please see the Help Files for additional information.

To help UESP handle the release of Dragonborn, limits have been placed on the creation of new pages in the Skyrim namespace. If you believe that a new page should be created here, you can place a request at UESPWiki:New Page Requests."

Thought you'd want to know and update it accordingly, assuming it hasn't been updated already and I'm seeing the old cached version or something.
Second, could you possibly create those redirects I mentioned earlier since I no longer can? Just "Lore:Logrolf" to here and "Lore:Svartr" to over yonder.
Thanks for your help. -- Croaker (talk) 08:40, 31 March 2014 (GMT)

Done and done. --Alfwyn (talk) 12:08, 31 March 2014 (GMT)
Thank you both! Robin Hood  (talk) 19:01, 31 March 2014 (GMT)

Online Journal Entries and Quest Objectives[edit]

Hey there, due to ESO's numerous differences in quest journals and objectives, I've created two alternative templates in my sandbox. Since you are #1 Template Guy, would you be able to have a quick once-over of them and make sure I haven't messed anything up? If they're okay I'll put in a request for HotnBOThered to buzz through them and change them over. The major difference is that Online Journal Entries only has two columns, whereas the original had three. Parameter entries should otherwise be the same. Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 19:14, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

I think those are ready to go now, but I'm not entirely clear-headed at the moment, so I've left them in your user space for the moment. If everything seems to be working as it should, feel free to move them into Template space. I'll save the bot-work itself until I'm more clear-headed, but it doesn't seem like a difficult switchover, so it'll probably be within the next 24 hours or so. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:57, 4 April 2014 (GMT)

Pre-Release tags[edit]

Don't know if you saw the post in CP, but if you want to start your bot off on removing these, I think we're safe to do so now. We did agree on the 15th as cut-off for that. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:51, 15 April 2014 (GMT)

It's on its way. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:10, 15 April 2014 (GMT)


Hey RH! A (rather) quick question regarding the events inside Fellglow Keep and Orthorn. First, I have found what appears to be some kind of conversation, although I can’t trigger it no matter how hard I try. Can you see any conditions for it?

Orthorn Lines:

"Really, I think there's been a mistake."
"May I just speak with her, please, to clear all this up?"
"Just let me out of here. I only wanted to help you!"
"Okay, now can you let me out? Please? I won't tell anyone it was you."
"Just open the cage, and I'll leave quietly. Won't make a sound, won't bother you at all."

Guard Lines:

"Quiet down."
"Stop your whining."
"She said you stay in there, and that's final."
"I'll give you something to cry about if you don't quiet down."

Can you shed some light on any of these? Thanks in advance! --Krusty (talk) 08:08, 4 May 2014 (GMT)

It looks like those are triggered when you pass a specific location. The location needed is in Fellglow Keep Dungeons, at the top of the stairs in the passage southwest of where you meet Orthorn. The trigger area is a fairly large box, so the dialogue may well start before you get into the prison room. I'm pretty sure it would only play the one time, so if you missed it, you'd have to reload an earlier game. Only one of Orthorn's lines would be spoken and then one of the guard's responses will be chosen at random. The guard lines have a 25% chance of not occurring, so there may not be a reply sometimes. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:50, 4 May 2014 (GMT)
Thanks for the tip! I had a feeling it was something along those lines, because it is hard as hell to reach the stairs opposite the cells. I'll try and trigger it, although the scene is bound to end up as a note. :) --Krusty (talk) 21:55, 5 May 2014 (GMT)
Hmm, you wouldn’t happen to have a save near Orthorn and that guard. Regardless of what I try, the guard is always hostile, walking back and forth near the fireplace in the northwestern corner. My guess is, he is programmed to rush over to the handles as soon as you approach the chamber (effectively canceling the conversation), but I could be wrong? --Krusty (talk) 21:35, 6 May 2014 (GMT)
It was easy enough to use the console to start the quest and teleport there, but like you, I wasn't able to trigger it and the guard is walking back and forth, just as you said. I don't have time right now to check more than that, but there's definitely something odd about him being in aggressive mode, even when he's been calmed. Even if he weren't, I'm not sure if he ever gets close enough to Orthorn to start a conversation. Very likely there's some small bug involved in this somewhere. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:21, 7 May 2014 (GMT)
I just looked into this some more and didn't come up with as specific info as I would've liked, but what I managed to find probably tells us enough. The template they're using for the guard seems to be a hostile wizard. I suspect that something in that template makes him on alert even when there's no one around. I won't say it's absolutely impossible, but I strongly suspect that because of that, the lines will never actually get triggered. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:41, 9 May 2014 (GMT)
Ok, thanks. I'll add is an a bug for now - hopefully, the patch people can figure something out. :) --Krusty (talk) 07:19, 11 May 2014 (GMT)

Closing a vote?[edit]

Hey, Robin. I just had a quick question about the proposal I made concerning the splitting up of easter eggs pages. Since it's a policy thing, I put it to a vote, and so far the vote is 4-0 in favor, with nobody expressing serious opposition to the idea. It's been just over a week since anyone voted, so is it okay to use the Consensus template and start implementing the change, or is that the kind of thing an admin has to do? ThuumofReason (talk) 12:43, 26 May 2014 (GMT)

Wikipedia has lots to say about this sort of thing, but very little of it gives firm guidelines. In the case of what to do with a relatively small number of pages, I don't feel that it requires an admin, but one thing that most of the Wikipedia pages mention somewhere is that whoever's closing a discussion should be uninvolved (which, as the proposer, you obviously wouldn't be). It's not unusual for an admin or two to abstain from voting/discussion for that reason. In this case, I think Legoless and I are the only two admins who gave opinions on it, so I'd suggest one of the other admins or another long-time user who didn't participate in the discussion. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:50, 26 May 2014 (GMT)
Makes sense. Thanks, Robin! ThuumofReason (talk) 22:05, 26 May 2014 (GMT)

Combine Guard Pages[edit]

I was just thinking, what if we combine the guard pages? All of the pages are stubs and I don't feel we could get enough information on any specific guard from each hold. Please consider. If it doesn't work. I could work on finding more information on guards. Tandil, Master of Restoration (talk) 22:25, 28 May 2014 (GMT)

Your best bet is to discuss this either on Guards or on the Community Portal. That way, it's more likely to be seen by those who are interested in the topic, rather than just those who are following my talk page. Off-hand, it seems like a good idea. Alternatively, you can just add {{Merge}} tags to those pages that you think should be combined. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:34, 28 May 2014 (GMT)


Hey RobinHood70! I know you are under the weather, and here’s hoping for a speedy recovery. I have a few questions about one Bassianus Axius, for now stashed away in my sandbox here. First, I can’t trigger his third greeting ("Is it absolutely necessary for you to bother me right now?"), so maybe you can find the conditions? Second, I have a hard time figuring out when he will leave for Riften, with or without Fastred. Also, was he supposed to have a schedule in Riften? All the best, and no rush! --Krusty (talk) 21:38, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

I took a look at the dialogue, that line (which I also have never heard before), has a condition "GetTalkedToPC = 0", which I assume means he says it when he's never talked to you, so yeah I see how that would not make sense, considering it's the third line, and the other two take precedence over it. As for him moving to Riften, it's a bit difficult to understand all these things, but it seems to be handled by a "post quest", and all I can see there is that they are removed from the Ivarsteadfaction and added to the Riftenfaction, and they are moved to the bunkhouse. If he has a schedule for Riften, I don't know what it is. I'm guessing this post quest is activated when the quest is finished, I believe I've read they move to Riften when the whole quest is completed, and not just their part of the quest ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 21:52, 22 June 2014 (GMT)
Hey Dwarf; I also noticed that strange condition, and I guess it’s an unused line. As for the schedule in Riften, I’l have to complete the quest in its entirety and make sure it is stated correctly – right now, I’ve used the old text.--Krusty (talk) 22:03, 22 June 2014 (GMT)
As you've probably gathered from my FB posts, I'm hoping for a rather big change tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how that goes. Anyway, onto business....
Dwarf's already explained the dialogue issue. I have nothing further to add there. Bassianius' schedule in Riften is that he sleeps in the bunkhouse from 8pm-4am and then wanders Riften randomly after that. Dwarf: this is defined by the packages added to his Alias in T02PostQuest.
Oh and strangely enough, the post quest kicks in part-way through the quest, when you receive the objective to "Find Fenrig". From the comments in the code, this was done so you couldn't possibly be somewhere that you would see him teleport suddenly into Riften. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:00, 23 June 2014 (GMT)
Thank you so much, both of you. I’ll take a look in-game for good measure, then launch the page. ☺ --Krusty (talk) 19:58, 23 June 2014 (GMT)
Damn, another bug – it seems like he never sleeps in Riften, but instead just wanders around 24 hours a day (Fastred too). Lack of beds…? --Krusty (talk) 21:09, 23 June 2014 (GMT)
I wondered about that when I was looking at it. It looks like there's a minor bug in the sleeping schedule in that it doesn't actually specify where he's supposed to sleep. I think that would mean he'd sleep wherever he might find a bed if he's close enough, but I'm not sure. It could be that the goof just causes that package to be ignored altogether. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:42, 23 June 2014 (GMT)

() Yeah, from looking at his behavior, he seems very interested in Balimund's forge and spends half the night staring at it. That's all I can come up, but he's definitely not going near the Bunkhouse. I'll add the bug and the patch people can hopefully solve it. ;) --Krusty (talk) 22:08, 23 June 2014 (GMT)

Logrolf the Willful[edit]

Hey RH! Congratulations on that first cup of coffee! A few more of my usual questions, this time about Logrolf the Willful. I’m writing an article on him, and there are a few loose ends;

  • When exactly will he spawn?
  • Speech skill required to pass the persuade option when he is trapped?
  • Will he travel or teleport to the Abandoned House in Markarth?

Hope you can find the time! ☺ --Krusty (talk) 20:47, 27 June 2014 (GMT)

He's moved to the correct location and enabled when the relevant part of The House of Horrors starts (stage 80). The speechcraft check is Average, so 50/35. As for travelling or teleporting, I think the answer is "either". It'd need some quick in-game testing, but I suspect if you follow him closely, he'll run all the way there, but there's clearly some code to just teleport him there if he's "unloaded". That might just mean he'll run out of the dungeon and then teleport, though. Not sure. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:10, 27 June 2014 (GMT)
I just took a look at him after freeing him from Broken Tower Redoubt, and it seems like he just teleports to Markarth upon leaving the cell/dungeon. I guess he may run all the way to Markarth if he is trapped in an exterior Forsworn camp, but with this save I get Broken Tower Redoubt, regardless of what I do so I can't fully test it. Anyway, thanks for the help - small question though, about the 50/35-thingy. Is that a required Speech skill of 50? Or where does the 35 come from? --Krusty (talk) 03:56, 28 June 2014 (GMT)
35 is what it is if you have the Persuasion perk. So yeah, it's normally 50. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:52, 28 June 2014 (GMT)

Cyclic redirects[edit]

Hi there! I wonder if this may be something you could help with. Would it be possible to remove the link from {{Place Link}} if and only if the linked page redirects back to the page with the Place Link on?

As an example: the ESO stall Bridgeside Market is a redirect to the marketplace Dockside Trading Stalls (it was discussed between myself, Jeancey and Alarra back in April on IRC that stalls should redirect to their parent marketplaces), but it is pertinent to list Bridgeside Market on Dockside Trading Stalls, as that is where it is, and the Place Link is the easiest way to do this. So, clicking on Bridgeside Market from Dockside Trading Stalls takes you right back to Dockside Trading Stalls again. It would make more sense, if possible, for the link to be disabled in a case such as this.

Thanks for any help, and I'll happily try to explain it in a different way if this makes no sense! --Enodoc (talk) 19:29, 9 July 2014 (GMT)

Templates have no way of detecting a redirect, but I've added a nolink parameter to the template, which will serve a similar purpose. You can see that I've added it to the Dockside Trading Stalls page already as an example. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:47, 9 July 2014 (GMT)
I wondered whether that might be the only way. But defining the local variable definitely reduces the leg-work that I would otherwise have seen by adding nolink to every individual link, so that's great, thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 19:56, 9 July 2014 (GMT)
If there are enough of them that it's warranted, I can put the bot on it, but only if there are a lot; if there's only like 30 or 40 pages that would be affected, it's easier for a human to do it. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:59, 9 July 2014 (GMT)
No thanks, we don't have many of the store and marketplace pages made yet anyway. Here's another one for you though: any idea why Place Link does not load the settlement parameter from the page it is linking? See the map links for Port Hunding's Shops and Services. They are linking to the Stros M'Kai map rather than the Port Hunding map, despite the fact that the map links on the pages themselves are working. As far as I understand what I coded for Place Link, it should be linking to world={{{settlement}}} if settlement is defined on the page that is loaded. (The links on Daggerfall and Wayrest only work because I forced the zone parameter to them.) --Enodoc (talk) 20:07, 9 July 2014 (GMT)
The template wasn't saving the settlement info, so Place Link couldn't pick it up. It'll take a while for the wiki to go through and update all of them, but in theory, they should all be fixed once the job queue is back down to 0. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:16, 9 July 2014 (GMT)
Ah what a nut. Can't load something I never saved, can I?  :P   Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 20:17, 9 July 2014 (GMT)
It can be a tad difficult, yeah. You could always insert random information instead and wait to see how long it takes people to notice. :P Robin Hood  (talk) 20:21, 9 July 2014 (GMT)

P on your parade[edit]

The place pages (Place A etc) all sort under 'P' now. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

Thanks, I'll have a look at the tempate and fix it. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:56, 12 July 2014 (GMT)


Can I send someone a cookie? It's for fulfilling some of my many image requests. Cheers. Biffa (talk) 01:19, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

Yes, anyone can send someone else cookies at any time. Just add {{Cookie}} (or any of the other Prize Templates) along with your message, and you're off to the races. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:22, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

Templates using NS_BASE instead of NS_ID for mapicons[edit]

I have been noticing that several {{Place Link}} have been causing images to break. When you hover over the broken image, it uses the NS_BASE (ex. Skyrim) instead of the NS_ID (ex. SR) in the beginning of the image name. I did a test where I changed {{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_BASE}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}} to {{#define:mapname|none|if={{#switch:{{NS_ID}}|Oblivion|Shivering|Morrowind|Bloodmoon|Skyrim|Dragonborn|Online=0|1}}}}. The page can be transcluded just fine with that change, but I was wondering if there was a specific reason to have NS_BASE, and if it would be safe to change for the actual template? Jeancey also pointed out that the {{Place Summary}} has broken images, so I changed it in a sandbox. #define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_base|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}} was changed to #define:marker_icon|{{NS_ID:{{{ns_id|{{NS_PARENT}}}}}} in that template. ~ Ad intellige (talk) 18:27, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

The place links break due to bad caching just so you know, a simple null edit always fixes them. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:34, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
I've tried that before, but it seems hit or miss if the null edit works. ~ Ad intellige (talk) 18:38, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
(edit conflict) The first change you mention would actually cause the check to fail all the time because NS_ID would return "OB", for instance, not "Oblivion". You're right that there's something wrong with it, though, because NS_BASE would never return a secondary namespace like Shivering, it would return Oblivion. Tribunal is noticeably excluded in that list, which means the check should be on NS_NAME, not NS_BASE. Your second change is close, but you'd only want to change the capitalized NS_BASE; the lower-case one is a special parameter name and should stay the same. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:45, 16 July 2014 (GMT)
Just to wrap this up (I think), I didn't actually change anything substantive in the Place Link template—I only removed a bunch of unnecessary code. I suspect that, as Silencer said, this is just a case of the caching issues. If anyone sees it happening again, tell me exactly what page it's happening on and exactly what the image name was. I can't see anything that would use the full name rather than the ID. Even if it fails, it should just be blank, so I'm really confused as to why the long namespace name would be showing up anywhere. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:20, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

Lorepage Parameter[edit]

Since you implemented the lorepage parameter for several of the summary boxes, I was wondering if you could help out with this issue. The link becomes illegible due to the blue background for Imperials. Is it possible to change the link's colour along with the name's? —Legoless (talk) 23:13, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

Done. If the lorepage parameter is actually specified as a full link (not sure if that's ever done), the colour change will have to be done there, but for most of them, it should be fixed now. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:25, 27 July 2014 (GMT)

Cleanup categories[edit]

Hey, I think something in the change you made to the Cleanup template broke the namespace categorization, as all the categories are empty. I looked to see if I could identify a problem, but I am not adept enough with wiki markup to penetrate the template's switches and everything. -- Hargrimm(T) 05:06, 27 July 2014 (GMT)

That was an easy mistake to make and could've been tough to spot, but thankfully I clued in quickly. The categories should be repopulated shortly. Thanks for letting me know! Robin Hood  (talk) 05:16, 27 July 2014 (GMT)

South of Skyrim[edit]

Just saying that I haven't forgotten about this. I'm currently doing a Dawnguard playthrough but on my next playthrough, if nothing else I'll use my cellphone to take photos of the journey. They'll be pretty low quality but hopefully will show you where I'm talking about.

In the meantime if you know anyone with a 360 you could have a go at trying to follow the directions on it. Both of the two of us who reported finding this area were on XBox, it might be a platform-specific glitch. --Morrolan (talk) 00:20, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

Even something low quality will be enough to make sure that I'm going where you're going. Platform-specific glitches are very rare, but not unheard of, so it could well be. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:44, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
Well I did this, the quality is moderately terrible but the images might be helpful. Should I upload them here? Normally I'd IM them to you. --Morrolan (talk) 04:15, 29 August 2014 (GMT)
Probably e-mail is easiest. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:44, 29 August 2014 (GMT)
Alright, bah. Don't try to reply to the email once you get it, I really only keep email around nowadays for registering on websites and don't read it otherwise. Is a tarball OK? --Morrolan (talk) 05:48, 29 August 2014 (GMT)
That should be fine. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:08, 29 August 2014 (GMT)

() Sent. If you have any questions about it, post on my talk page. Your talk page is too busy so I'm unwatching it now. Thanks :) --Morrolan (talk) 22:17, 29 August 2014 (GMT)

API returning 500[edit]

Hi there! Not sure where best to report this, but I figure you can either deal with it or point me the right way.

My userjs queries!bot to show a "AJAX" recent changes in the sidebar. This seems to be returning error 500 recently (i.e. I just noticed it today and it wasn't happening two weeks ago. That's the most specificity I got, sorry). This of course breaks my sidebar RC which... makes me a sad battery. :(

Any ideas why? Anything I can do to fix it? (I've watchlisted, feel free to reply here) ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 20:18, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

P.S. is the code, specifically doRCTimer(). ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 20:24, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
Not a clue why this is happening. Trying the same query on the development server works fine, so it may be a bug that's been fixed between 1.19 and 1.22. Of course, if it was working fine a couple of weeks ago, that wouldn't seem likely. I'll poke around a bit and see what I can find. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:47, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
Okay, as long as you're on one of the main servers (not mobile), it should be working now. Apparently, somewhere in the new MetaTemplate API, I've used something that only works with a version higher than 1.19. I'll have to chase it down. In the meantime, I've temporarily disabled the MetaTemplate API. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:58, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
Yay! I figured it had something to do with this. :P Thankee ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 21:04, 7 August 2014 (GMT)
Yeah, as soon as I realized that you'd said it had worked a couple of weeks ago, I clued in that it must be the changes I'd made yesterday. As it turns out, it wasn't something I'd added, but something I hadn't. There's a long-unused function that you still have to include, even though it's not used. They finally removed it entirely in 1.21. I'll have it updated on all our servers shortly. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:27, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

Needed Hyphen?[edit]

Hiya, just been looking at watchlist and noticed your comment on the Bloodlet Throne page update where you say the a hyphen is needed to show that the lock is adept not the gate. Not sure what an adept gate is? I've been showing locks without using a hyphen forever. There was a discussion a long while ago (not me) that as there isn't a standard way of showing locks we should continue using the methods we were using. I've had a quick look for it, but can't remember where or even who. Sorry to be a pain. Biffa (talk) 15:18, 9 August 2014 (GMT)

(I've copied your "getting sick" poem as well) Biffa (talk) 15:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)
I'm not sure what an adept gate is either, so common sense tells you it's an adept lock (at least in's not like that makes sense in real life, either). Grammatically, it's the same as if you'd said "you'll see a red locked gate", for example. Is the gate red and it's locked, or is there a red lock on the gate? Just googling for it, though, it seems that it's a matter of where you grew up to some extent (example). I wasn't aware of this. I know they're sometimes dropped in other common-use scenarios (like I could've dropped it just there, perhaps), so between that and Americans dropping them sometimes anyway, if you say there's a conversation about it somewhere, I'll defer to that. It'll drive me batty not to hyphenate a compound adjective even when it's obvious what applies to what, but I'm sure I'll survive.
And you're welcome to the poem. I stole it from somewhere else, myself, so I can hardly complain! :Þ Robin Hood  (talk) 15:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)
I've been adding the hypen to your pages whenever I fix them up, Biffa. Jeancey (talk) 15:50, 9 August 2014 (GMT)
Ditto, anywhere I see it without, I add it. — ABCface 15:57, 9 August 2014 (GMT)

() Hyphenation and comma use vary greatly between different dialects of English. It's not a big deal. --Morrolan (talk) 16:06, 9 August 2014 (GMT)

Unique Items[edit]

Hi Rob. I'm working on the item pages for Unique Items and I have a couple creation kit things I was hoping you could clear up for me, when you get the chance.

  • During Skyrim:The Bonds of Matrimony, Maramal says that he gives a ring to both the player and the player's spouse. Does he actually give a ring to your spouse?
  • Does the Reveler actually carry the Charmed Necklace on his person, or can you only obtain it by trading him the bottle of mead?
  • I found this dialogue referencing the Nightweaver's Band in the cslist. Will it ever be spoken by Festus? It doesn't seem to be connected to the quest in any way.

Thanks in advance. --AN|L (talk) 16:38, 9 August 2014 (GMT)

I can confirm that Festus says that line of dialogue when you return to the sanctuary after Recipe for Disaster. You only get the ring if you hide the corpse I think. —Legoless (talk) 17:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)
(edit conflict) Wait...someone besides Krusty is asking me for a CK verification?!? I'm all lost and confused! :Þ In order:
  • Yes, and it's the exact same ring you get.
  • Yes, it should be on his person. I don't know what (if anything) controls whether something can be pickpocketed, beyond the obvious perks, so in-game verification might be good on that count. I'm fairly sure it would show in his inventory if you kill him, though.
  • It looks like it should be (and Legoless confirmed it while I was getting ec'd), provided that you do everything including hiding the body. The reason it doesn't look connected in CSList is that it's what's called a shared dialogue. That means it's used in more than one place. Those are stored a bit differently, and I don't think CSList links them properly. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:49, 9 August 2014 (GMT)
Thanks a lot. --AN|L (talk) 18:09, 9 August 2014 (GMT)
I can confirm the reveler; it's on his body if he dies, he got killed by monsters on my last playthrough. --Morrolan (talk) 18:20, 9 August 2014 (GMT)
You can buy the ring from your spouse once they open their shop. Biffa (talk) 22:00, 9 August 2014 (GMT)

Wikia images[edit]

Hey Robin. As per the trainwreck you witnessed over on the wikia, you may have guessed I'm no longer admin. As such, I won't be able to delete any future plagiarized images - however I definitely suggest contacting the admins EbonySkyrim or TombRaiser, who will gladly deal with such issues. Thanks! --Jimeee (talk) 14:59, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for letting me know. It's good to have specific names to go to. Robin Hood  (talk) 15:12, 11 August 2014 (GMT)


Hi Robin, please check your email as soon as you can, and maybe hop into chat. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 15:35, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Give me a few minutes. I'm gonna have to reconfigure my IRC to go by the IP address. Robin Hood  (talk) 15:49, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Arena Summerset[edit]

Look at the map, it has both islands, it is the province. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:13, 13 August 2014 (GMT)

Actually, looking at Arena more in depth, I'm inclined to agree. There's at least one mention of "Summurset Province" along with several "Summurset Isle" and "city of Summurset" references. The fact that there's at least one province and that there are named cities on the second isle convinces me, though. I'll go change the transclusion. I'll leave the page with the "u" spelling, though, as that's the word used exclusively in the text in Arena. The only place I found "Summerset" in Arena was in the executable and I'm not sure if that ever shows up in game. It definitely makes sense to leave the redirect in place, though, given that they seem to have settled on "Summerset" later. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:27, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
It still needs moved back to the plural 'isles'. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:40, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
It's exclusively singular in Arena. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:45, 13 August 2014 (GMT)
It appears so, which may cause problems if an island pages is desired, but that can be dealt with if it happens. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 19:05, 13 August 2014 (GMT)

Weird Bug with Battlespire Books[edit]

Hello Robin, notice at the bottom of the page the red link for an unused template under the most recent version? Do you have any clue what is causing that? --AKB Talk Cont Mail 01:56, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

I was just looking at that, actually. The template's a bit oddly designed, but I'm going to leave it alone for now and just continue the way we were doing things. Silencer had the right idea. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:58, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

Book Summary[edit]

I've undone your edit to the book summary as it causes the summary to work twice on a page, though only display once. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 14:57, 17 August 2014 (GMT)

I'll have a closer look at it. Thanks for letting me know. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:25, 17 August 2014 (GMT)
Yup, my fault completely. I goofed on which set of curly brackets went with which. They really need to redesign templates to allow formatting the code more cleanly so mistakes like that are harder to make. I could reinstate the div optimization, but not really worth going back and forth for no actual change in functionality. Whenever I start Project: Template Cleanup II, I'll redo that. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:35, 17 August 2014 (GMT)


Hey RobinHood70. I’m looking at a strange scene, DialogueFalkreathGrayPineGoodsScene01, and there are four lines of dialogue, for a conversation between Bolund and Solaf. The lines are as follows:

Solaf: "Falkreath is a fine place to be, Bolund."
Bolund: "Another day in this graveyard."
Bolund: "Falkreath is where people go to die. We could be fighting, taking back Nord land!"
Solaf: "Falkreath is our home, a place where we have good jobs under a good Jarl. Until the war comes to us we stay put."

Now, that doesn’t make any sense – can you check the CK and see what order they’re in? Or maybe the convo is bugged? Thanks! --Krusty (talk) 22:13, 27 August 2014 (GMT)

Why can't all your questions be this easy? ;) The dialogue is just in the wrong order—"Another day..." comes first, then the rest of the lines are in the order you have them. Apart from that, there's absolutely nothing special about this scene at all. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:22, 28 August 2014 (GMT)
Thanks a lot! Better safe than sorry! :) --Krusty (talk) 19:55, 1 September 2014 (GMT)
Hello again! I need yet another favor, a bit harder and tedious, but important. I ripped all the conversations related to Falkreath’s Dead Man’s Drink, but I have trouble figuring out who says what, in several cases. I have listed them in my SANDBOX, and I will be most grateful if you could check the CK and replace the question marks with the proper NPC name. No rush whatsoever, and I hope it’s not too annoying. Best, and thanks in advance, --Krusty (talk) 21:00, 1 September 2014 (GMT)
Went ahead an butted in here. Had the CK open already... hope you don't mind!--Beezer1029 (talk) 14:19, 2 September 2014 (GMT)
Quite the opposite. Thanks, Beezer! That's one less thing for me to do today. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 15:07, 2 September 2014 (GMT)
Thanks, Beezer - and RH, no more conversations for now! :D --Krusty (talk) 20:47, 2 September 2014 (GMT)

Thank you![edit]

Choco chip cookie.png
You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Thank you for setting your bot loose (and updating the code over and again) to implement my nit-picky ideas! :) Holomay (talk) 10:20, 9 September 2014 (GMT)
You're very welcome! It gave me a chance to improve the code and make it more reliable, so it was good all around. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:46, 9 September 2014 (GMT)

Skyrim Hidden Armor Bonus[edit]

Hi Robin, can you clarify an issue pertaining to a Hidden Armor Bonus using shields here. The information was added by a user who made no other relevant edits, and there is nothing clear about it on the talk page. Your investigation after patch 1.9 was done after the info on shields was added. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:01, 1 October 2014 (GMT)

I apparently had never tested shields, or if I did, I didn't feel the need to note it anywhere. I've done so now. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:24, 1 October 2014 (GMT)

Abuse Filter[edit]

Hey, I'm checking with you to see I'm did the right thing here. I noticed these latest spam posts always having the same subject, I added a word to the filter, but I've never touched those things so I don't know if I added it correctly, and I'm not even sure if it was right of me to do so ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 19:44, 5 October 2014 (GMT)

That looks good! Oh and as for whether or not you should, you have the rights for a reason. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 19:48, 5 October 2014 (GMT)


Hi Robin, could you take a look at: this. It's one of my sandboxes where I have listed changes that I feel needs to be made to the above place page. I'm asking you to take a look prior to me posting as it currently is shown to the talk page due to previous tensions caused by my making many of the changes previously and it being reverted due to it having featured article status. I want to avoid another issue with the person in question, but the article is missing info/showing inaccurate info/etc.

There is one potion that may be worth checking the CK, which is the second potion by alchemy lab. It may be randomly chosen between healing/magicka/stamina, but I don't think so. I'm fairly certain it is always stamina.

If you have any questions/advice/suggestions please let me know. I hope things are going well for you with your health. Best Rgds. Biffa (talk) 16:11, 19 October 2014 (GMT)

Looks good overall. Here are various comments on some things, just reading down the page in order.
  • Personally, I'd tend to include exterior ore veins, but I can see where that could quickly become problematic, and Irkngthand is a great example of it. Is that vein really part of the exterior or not? It's sort of on the edges. If wiki standard is to ignore them, then yes, remove it, because I can confirm that there are absolutely none inside.
  • Looking back through the CP discussions, the consensus was that galleries should come after the Bugs section, not before. Maps, on the other hand, should be left closer to the interior sections of the article. Of course, since there are currently no maps or galleries in that article, this doesn't really matter, unless you're planning on creating one of those sections.
  • I thought we'd agreed to use "leveled" for what you call "random", since there are almost no true "leveled" items in the game (and I don't believe there are any that are completely "random"). The CK simply refers to all of them as "leveled". Either way, a character less than level 10 will never get anything but Potions of Extra Magicka there, where a level 40 or higher character can get anything from a Potion of Extra Magicka to an Elixir of Extra Magicka.
  • "Fungus" or "mushroom" both work, although for many of them, you can probably leave the word off altogether. Saying "there's an imp stool" works just as well as "there's an imp stool fungus/mushroom". I suppose a total newbie to the game might be momentarily confused at the lack of a stool with an imp on it, but in context, I don't think that's something we really need to worry about.
  • The potion appears to be any of health, magicka or stamina in the CK. I just teleported there and got magicka.
Grand Cavern
  • Confirmed that they're always an amethyst and sapphire.
  • I'm not sure about the capitalization of Namira's R/rot. If you're certain, make the change; if you're not sure either, check with Jeancey. I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot of changes along those lines a while back. If "rot" is capitalized, though, I would expect all the other ingredients to be as well, and I'm pretty sure we went the other way on that one.
  • Personally, I'd leave the "s" on the various fungi. I'll admit that "Namira's rots" sounds a bit odd, but changing "glowing mushrooms" to "glowing mushroom fungi" sounds very odd.
  • As a mountain-climber, I tend to agree that there's very little that's "unreachable". I didn't check them out myself, but if you were able to reach them with a little jumping, then yeah, I'd make the change.
Bronze Water Cave
  • The potion will always be a leveled/random restore health, magicka, or stamina potion.
It's possible I missed one or two things, but I tried to check everything in the CK that might vary (lock levels, leveled creatures/items, etc.). Unless I mentioned it above, it all checked out. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:31, 19 October 2014 (GMT)
I've taken a look at your so-called list of inaccuracies, and many of them appear nothing more than a deliberate attempt to satisfy your need to belittle my contributions.
There is no need to add "leveled" next to every enemy, as unless they are set to one type all enemies are leveled, adding this is redundant and useless. All chests are unlocked unless a lock level is given, there is no need to mention every single time that it is an "unlocked" chest, this is readily apparent and should only ever be done when a locked one appears nearby and orientation is required.
It is always Namira's rot, rot is never capitalised, only proper nouns are of which Namira is one.
Prize does not need to be pluralised, a price can contain multiple items, prices require multiple "givers" and there is only one in this instance.
As I've said before, in reference to items 'leveled' means your level sets the item level, 'random' is for items where it does not and includes items that can be better as your level goes up but are not dependent on it (thus the magic potion example in Robins reply is random), using leveled for these items suggests to the reader that a higher level guarantees a better item so it should be avoided. If Robin is right and there are no truely "leveled" potions, the term should be discarded from all usage.
With such a large article, and even with small ones, miscellaneous clutter such as ruined books have no need to be mentioned, only any Dwemer clutter than can be melted down (with mention of other Dwemer clutter for orientation if necessary).
Of course the page was written without Dawnguard, so any changes made by it can be made without hesitation, there is no reason it has not already been beyond neglect.
I've never objected to adding or changing fungi or bottles to items instead of sample.
Adding 'pieces of' to that sentence is redundant, as it is in a list of items already.
At level 70+ before 1.9 the torture room spinning blades consistently dealt a killing blow to the Falmer beside it so long as they had not moved from their default positions. This may have changed with Dawnguard and or the higher levels available now.
I have never claimed my potion listings were infallible, or any other items with the potential to be generated randomly (loose loot). Any changes to these items are fine so long as they have been checked by someone with access to the creation kit.
The "Bandit chief" is not always named chief, so head Bandit is a more accurate description, as not all Bandit leaders are chiefs.
I never saw that tripwire by the door, so there's no objection to that.
So long as you found a way to the 'unreachable' Falmer, there is no objection to that change.
Anything not mentioned in the article that doesn't come under clutter or inconsequential (Nord mead) has likely been a genuine miss by me (or added by Dawnguard).
Any style changes to layout may require a stripping of the articles featured status. 'Zones' can be removed as a proper discussion has taken place on this and they do make a noticeable difference in appearance. No place page that has been properly edited should have 'walkthrough' as a heading, this needs a proper discussion. Neither has there been a discussion about the location of the notes section, which should for the sake of site-wide consistency be above the description section. Please refer to previous place page redesign projects and the entire Oblivion and Morrowind namespaces, the trend for notes below is entirely located to pages you have edited. The only consensus from the layout discussion was to have galleries as the last section on a page. Maps should be in the gallery unless they are the only images and if they aren't used in the relevant section.
The only person opposed to construction discussion between you and I is yourself, I have always been open to discussion but I don't like how you try to subversively try to avoid proper discussion. My talk page is over this direction if you ever feel the need. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:59, 19 October 2014 (GMT)
Please be careful to observe our etiquette policies, Silencer, and assume good faith. I've never seen any kind of "belittling" or anything but constructive attempts at conversation and page improvement on Biffa's part, with the exception of a few mutual devolutions between the two of you.
On the topic of Notes, I'd forgotten that we do Place pages differently, so that was partly my fault. For almost everything else, Notes and Bugs sections come last and I find it bizarre that we don't do the same for Place pages. The sole exception that comes to mind is Quest pages, where the Journal Entries come last, which of course is because they're generally less useful than Notes and Bugs. In any event, unless place pages are different for this as well, which I see no indication of, Bugs sections always come immediately after Notes, which was mostly what I was concerned about. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:35, 20 October 2014 (GMT)
Oh, and on the topic of the bandit chief, I checked during my initial look at Biffa's page and yes, he (or she? didn't check that) will always be named "Bandit Chief". Robin Hood  (talk) 02:19, 20 October 2014 (GMT)
I always observe etiquette, unlike quite a number of other editors, so please stop attempting to unduly influence opinion against me, it is highly unconstructive and simply diverts attention from having a proper and civil discussion. Any claims I make can be backed up with evidence, unlike the claims made against me. Bugs section does not always come after the notes section; where proper projects have been implemented for place pages, it is quests-notes-description-bugs. The style page for places has not gained consensus, but the project pages have been widely implemented and accepted by the majority of editors around both then and now. Its been two years since my write, so I'll plead a memory error on the bandit chief, though my memory does tell me that my low-level character found a bandit clothed in plate mail on the bench but not named chief. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 03:35, 20 October 2014 (GMT)
Assuming that other editors are trying to belittle you or influence opinion against you is exactly the kind of assumption of bad faith that I'm talking about. Don't do it. Period. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:42, 20 October 2014 (GMT)
You forget the proof part, I am not assuming anything, it is clear to anyone without an agenda and accepts the truth. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 03:49, 20 October 2014 (GMT)

() My dad 'Biffa' is unable to access the internet at the moment because his laptop is having problems with DPC watchdog violation as soon as he is able to access the internet again he will be back on UESP and updating again. 19:32, 20 October 2014 (GMT)LilBiffa

So how do I try to subversively try to avoid proper discussion? By asking: "I'm asking you to take a look prior to me posting as it currently is shown to the talk page due to previous tensions caused by my making many of the changes previously and it being reverted due to it having featured article status. I want to avoid another issue with the person in question, but the article is missing info/showing inaccurate info/etc."
I have never once belittled your contributions, unlike your attitude of me and the work I've put into many place pages, I would love to see the proof of me belittling your contributions you claim to have.
Some enemies are leveled, some are of fixed level as you are well aware and have used on several of your own major contributions.
As for using unlocked for chests etc, it is extensively used on the wiki and not only by me.
As for capitalising Rot in Namira's rot, when I put rot it gets changed to Rot, when I put Rot that gets challenged, I wish this was standardised. There was a discussion about this where I pointed this out, but can't find the talk page atm. I'll just have to start keeping a log of who says what, to avoid being blamed for trying to force my way of doing things on others by you again.
Prize implies singular, prizes plural and a there are two prizes and no givers. It seems better english but it's of minor issue, not a big fan of the sentence.
The issue of plants/fungi/mushrooms is a simple one but accurate. I wouldn't add or change something from mushroom to fungus, but would always use the generic fungus over mushroom where it isn't specified due to fungus being correct for both mushrooms and toadstools, where mushrooms isn't. Especially when some of the images are more based on toadstools, I realise this isn't definitive, it just seems to be sensible. I agree in some of the instances leaving them without fungus/fungi works as well. I just wanted to get away from the inaccurate "plants".
showing something as leveled when you can get something at far below your level IS misleading, what else can we call it? capped? We can't just call it a potion of healing for instance, because that is misleading. What appears most on the wiki currently is leveled for the items that are found at your current level and random for items that are randomly chosen from a list governed by your level.
Regarding the notes section this has been extensively discussed and agreed to leave it at the bottom before maps/galleries and bugs. You say that it's a site wide standard to have notes near the top, why has it been standardised for the Skyrim House Redesign Project, of which you are a project leader at the bottom, where it has been placed in all the examples that have a notes section including ones listed as major contributions on your page?
I assume the points apart from the ones commented on are fine and that I don't need to post this to the talk page.
You come across as if you take it to heart if someone comes along and writes on a page you've previously worked on they are belittling you or your work. That simply isn't the case. I thought it was supposed to be the case that "if you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then you shouldn't submit it" Or is that for anyone except you?
I have also never implied infallibility either.
Please start observing the proper etiquette towards me and treat me assuming good faith. I've tried to avoid further confrontations with you, try doing the same with me. Biffa (talk) 18:49, 21 October 2014 (GMT)
If I understood correctly, the two of you agree on the use of "random" vs "leveled", and since you've both done far more work on the Place pages than I have, I'll bow to that usage.
As far as the Notes and Bugs sections, I think we need to have a discussion about that on the CP, which I will do shortly. As far as I'm concerned, Notes and Bugs sections should always come together, and that's certainly how it seems to have been done in the past (e.g., Oblivion:Anga, Oblivion:Fanacas). At least some more recent pages, like Skyrim:Understone Keep, however, split the two, with the zones in between, as Silencer describes. I found various other inconsistencies in section ordering, like Map(s) naming and placement as well. I don't have a significant opinion on that issue, other than it needs to follow a consistent rule that we can (and should) outline on the Place Layout page of the Style Guide. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:16, 21 October 2014 (GMT)
This is something I requested via the CP previously here and it was suggested that we continue as we have been until the Skyrim Place Page Redesign Project, which despite offers of work from several people it was about the time of ESO release, so was put on the back burner, but I know Silencer and myself also agree that this needs attention to standardise things, although I'm sure we're unlikely to be as much in agreement from that point forward ;). Although I will reiterate I was genuinely trying to avoid/defuse tension by asking Robin to take a look first! Biffa (talk) 00:01, 22 October 2014 (GMT)
I was also one of the folks offering to work on updating the Redesign Project parameters and template. I think Robin and I talked about the inconsistent use of headers. So if the time is right, I'm still up for it! --Beezer1029 (talk) 15:03, 22 October 2014 (GMT)
I actually opened the discussion with all namespaces in mind, which was why I didn't worry about it being part of a project. The consensus seems to be to only use the new format for Skyrim onwards. Still not sure if/how Online would be affected, but I'll check out what's already there before figuring out what needs to be done. Online doesn't use the same template, so didn't get caught by my initial scan. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:27, 22 October 2014 (GMT)

Tweaks to Online Quest Header[edit]

Hey there RH, I wasn't sure whether your tweaks to Online Quest Header were an intentional change to the style of the journal entries, or whether all you wanted to do was adjust the fact that there were two #if statements, so I tweaked it again to restore the previous formatting but still only using one #if. Feel free to revert if you think the altered style was better. --Enodoc (talk) 19:08, 20 October 2014 (GMT)

No, that was accidental. I was a bit distracted by my dog ringing manically to go outside. Thanks for the fix. It's less than ideal to split the border command that way, but it works. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:45, 20 October 2014 (GMT)

Lost User Password[edit]

I'm not sure if you'll have the same ability to help me with this as Daveh should, but if you can assist, would you look at this AN post? Any help would be appreciated. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 01:14, 25 October 2014 (GMT)

Broken Redirects[edit]

Do you think it is possible to either strike out the current (And only) broken redirect? For some reason the soft redirect to the Metawiki makes it a false positive. The only thing I could think of is the fact that the Metawiki page is also a redirect, and I don't want to change Mark's userpage. ~ Ad intellige (talk) 21:44, 4 November 2014 (GMT)

There's a {{Soft redirect}} template that does the same thing, but without showing up as broken. I've changed the page appropriately, so now the broken redirects list is clean...for the moment. ;) Robin Hood  (talk) 01:03, 5 November 2014 (GMT)


Thank you very much for the HTML advice. But now I'm wondering if that sort of thing is allowed on article pages? Since it would confuse and deter some people looking to edit a particular article. Enodia (talk) 03:10, 8 December 2014 (GMT)

Allowed, yes, but discouraged unless absolutely necessary. Depending what you're doing, there may be other ways around it. Which page are you looking at? Robin Hood  (talk) 04:35, 8 December 2014 (GMT)
It's nowhere near necessary to be honest.
The Shadowmarks page, I'm trying to add images and the approriate pogs to it so I might as well try and tidy up the page a bit. I tried using HTML for the Whiterun part and MediaWiki coding for the others. Think it looks better since all the numbers are aligned but the coding is really such a mess to look at for such a trivial thing. Enodia (talk) 06:03, 8 December 2014 (GMT)
Ah, yeah, I remember looking at that page myself a while back and not coming up with any good solutions. Pretty much every way you can do it—at least that I can think of—involves a hack of some kind or other, so if you want to use the HTML method there, it might well be justified. Robin Hood  (talk) 07:32, 8 December 2014 (GMT)
An alternative trick, if you want to avoid using HTML, would be to fudge the indentation levels, to put the headers one level in from the numbers; eg:
Click [ Show ] to view →
:;Danger Danger
  1. Amren's House, on the left of the door, marked because he is a skilled warrior.
  2. Guard Barracks, on the bottom right corner along the eastern edge of the building; marked for obvious reasons.
    Empty Empty
  3. Heimskr's House, on the right of the door.
  4. Olava the Feeble's House, on the left of the door.
    Loot Loot
  5. Arcadia's Cauldron, on the right of the door; marked for being a store.
  6. Bannered Mare, on the bottom right of the door; marked for being a store.
Of course this results in a slightly different layout, but if you wanted to avoid HTML it is a possible solution. --Enodoc (talk) 10:33, 8 December 2014 (GMT)
I'd been thinking along those lines as well, but I wasn't aware that using the semicolon would also cause the numbering to skip. I'd been playing with a bullet there. I like your solution better. My other thought was just to stick with the manual numbering and put the whole thing in a table (either transparent or MediaWiki style). It doesn't let you use autonumbering, but at least you can get everything lining up how you want it and then do whatever you want for the headers. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:14, 8 December 2014 (GMT)


Hey Robin! I was looking to complete the schedule for Jod to destub his page. I noticed in the CK that he is listed as eating from 7am - 8am and also from 7pm - 8pm. However, when I went to verify his schedule in-game, he does not eat at either one of these times. I'm guessing he misses his earlier meal because he is set to sleep from midnight to 8am and that takes precedence over his eating package. However, there really doesn't seem to be anything that would stop him from eating from 7pm - 8pm, since all he is doing at that time is standing by Skald, which is just his default activity I believe. I did notice that his eating packages have names such as DefaultEatEvening as opposed to JodEatEvening, so maybe that causes everything else to take precedence over them, although his other packages all have default in their names as well. Seeing that you're the guru when it comes to this kind of stuff, I was hoping that you might have some insight on this behavior. Thanks in advance! Forfeit (talk) 20:28, 11 December 2014 (GMT)

That took a while to track down—I'm getting rusty. :) The problem is that most of the packages on the actor never actually come into effect. In the DialogueDawnstar quest, Jod is assigned to the Housecarl alias and as part of that, several packages are added to the character. These packages always take precedence over any that are defined on the base actor. I believe that even here, only the first two are actually coming into play. The first tells him to sleep, the second tells him to stand next to the throne the rest of the time. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:24, 12 December 2014 (GMT)
That would check out with what I observed in-game, so I would agree that this is probably the issue. I'll note this bug in the schedule as best I can. Thanks for the help! Forfeit (talk) 04:39, 12 December 2014 (GMT)


I think I've isolated the problem I'm having with JS, and I was wondering if you knew of any way I can fix it. It seems to be based on me being logged in. When logged out, the new item popups and everything else that uses JS works fine. When I'm logged in, regardless of which computer or which browser I'm using, nothing that relies on JS (HotCat, AJAX Recent Changes, the popups, etc) seems to be working. I've tried clearing my browser caches and purging the pages, but that hasn't helped. Any suggestions? Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 12:25, 15 December 2014 (GMT)

The first thing that comes to mind is to do a forced refresh. That's probably not the issue if it's affecting multiple browsers, but it doesn't hurt to try. The other possibility is that there's a problem with your custom monobook.js page. I can't see how a blank page would create problems, but I can try deleting it and see if that helps. If you need the history, I can always restore the edits later, or copy them to another page somewhere. Robin Hood  (talk) 14:59, 15 December 2014 (GMT)
It makes no sense really because it was working fine a couple of days ago and I haven't changed anything. I'll make sure I log out of everywhere as well to see if that resets anything. Yeah you can go ahead and delete monobook.js; it only had Jak's sidebar code in it anyway. Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 15:52, 15 December 2014 (GMT)
It happens here too. Even the most basic JS does not work, like the grouping in Recent Changes or showing the license text when uploading an image. The preview when uploading doesn't work either. Moinante (talk) 16:29, 15 December 2014 (GMT) sounds like Javascript is failing at some point. I'll see if Dave has any ideas. I can confirm the behaviour myself in looking at the template page. When I do a hard refresh, hovering over the link initially shows the popup. After my sidebar Javascript code runs, though, the popup fails to appear. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:47, 15 December 2014 (GMT)

Two characters sharing exactly same name[edit]

Hey RobinHood! I discovered that there are two characters named "Hilan" in ESO: one is Khajiit vendor and another one is the hall steward of Fighters Guild in Davon's Watch. Should I rename the Khajiit's page into "Online:Hilan (vendor)" and then create another page "Online:Hilan" for the steward? And put remark on each page? Does the disambiguation page should be created as well? Thanks! -Shuryard (talk) 20:52, 16 December 2014 (GMT)

If I may jump in here, if they are both the same race, then I would disambig them by location, so where ever the Vendor is, do Online:Hilan (place) and for the steward do Online:Hilan (Davon's Watch). Online:Hilan should become a disambiguation page, similar to Online:Zulana. Jeancey (talk) 21:00, 16 December 2014 (GMT)
Jeancey, they are different race - steward is Dunmer. Should I make them Online:Hilan (Khajiit) and Online:Hilan (Dunmer)? Or it is better to stick with the place? Thanks! - Shuryard (talk) 21:06, 16 December 2014 (GMT)
Then yes. :) A better example would be Online:Mathal. Jeancey (talk) 21:08, 16 December 2014 (GMT)
Thanks! Done. - Shuryard (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2014 (GMT)
Glad I could help. :P Robin Hood  (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2014 (GMT)
 :-D - Shuryard (talk) 21:36, 16 December 2014 (GMT)

This discussion[edit]

Hey RH! Merry Xmas! Hope all goes well and have fun!

P.S. Please could you (if you have the time that is because of Xmas hahaha) look into the discussion in the title and provide your input. Thanks in advance! DG#:) 10:48, 25 December 2014 (GMT)

Merry Christmas to you too, DG! I have no strong opinions on the subject and, whenever possible, there should be an uninvolved admin available in case one is needed to decide what the consensus actually is. Since two admins have already registered opinions, I'd rather not contribute. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:18, 25 December 2014 (GMT)
It's cool, RH :) It's just that I though you would be able to provide a good piece of input there. DG#:) 18:11, 25 December 2014 (GMT)

Necroposting bugs[edit]

I know exceptions to the necroposting rule are generally made for confirming bugs, so does that also extend to things that aren't listed as bugs in any of the articles? I feel like if there's no entry for something on the page, it would make more sense to just add an entry with the confirmation tag and say in the edit summary that confirmation was provided on the talk page. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 01:50, 29 December 2014 (GMT)

If I'm understanding correctly, then yes, you could just add directly to the page. If an older confirmation is already on the talk page (and is still valid, obviously) then there's probably no need to add to it unless additional explanation is required. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:36, 29 December 2014 (GMT)
So is there a problem with me making reversions like this and this as long as I put the bug on the page myself? Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 03:00, 29 December 2014 (GMT)
I think it's better to leave a record of what was said. Adding a bug to the page doesn't negate that. —Legoless (talk) 03:14, 29 December 2014 (GMT)
So then it's not okay to add something directly to the page? It seems to me like the particulars of this are a bit fuzzy. If it's a necropost confirming an otherwise untouched bug that's never been added to any articles, should I leave it or not? That's what I'm really asking here. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 03:29, 29 December 2014 (GMT)
Adding it to the page is still a good idea, but I think the necropost should be left on the talk page as well, as confirmation. —Legoless (talk) 15:17, 29 December 2014 (GMT)

() I suppose that makes sense. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 16:22, 29 December 2014 (GMT)