User talk:Hargrimm

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Hi Hargrimm! Welcome to the wiki ;). I just wanted to let you know that the Patroller userbox you added to your page implies that you have gone through the nomination process of becoming a Patroller. If you are interested in becoming a Patroller, you should read over and follow the guidelines listed on the Patroller page. Don't let that stop you from watching the Recent Changes page, though--nobody's going to complain about having a little extra help! Let me know if you have any questions about anything. --Eshe 23:27, 23 September 2007 (EDT)


Your user page is pretty impressive. You must have considerable skill when it comes to HTML code and Wiki Syntax. I have *shamelessly* lifted your name title for my userpage because it looked to damn pretty! I'll take it down if you so wish. My real question is this: Can I easily change all the web colour codes for the line either side of the text, or do I have to change each one individually? I want to change the line from green to blue. Can you help me here? (Oh, and by the way, welcome to the Wiki!) --HMSVictory 15:33, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Sorry to be such a bother, but I have another question. You mentioned the "Find and Replace" function. Does this mean that I will have to find a list of web colours in shades of blue and replace all the codes for green with the ones for blue, one at a time? --HMSVictory 10:57, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Companions Radiant Quests[edit]

Hey Hargrimm! I replied to your question on those Aela/Companion radiant quests. HTH, Krag 02:35, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


Choco chip cookie.png
You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Sorry for giving you so many terse talk page replies; I seem to be making a habit of it. It's just because I've been editing from my phone a lot recently. Thanks for beating the ugly out of the Blades lore page, and for your work in general. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 02:08, 11 December 2013 (GMT)
Hey, my first cookie! Thanks! And thanks for your tweaks also; can never have too many links. -- Hargrimm(T) 03:04, 11 December 2013 (GMT)

Feyfolken III[edit]

Those cowardly pieces of trash! I've had it with that kind of bulltrash! Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 06:05, 26 January 2014 (GMT)

Between this and Barenziah, it makes me wonder if there's other works that have been censored without us noticing. Bunch of politically-correct cover-your-trash is all it is! -- Hargrimm(T) 09:01, 26 January 2014 (GMT)
Well, Withershins is another example. I currently go through all the books found at Lore:Books and compare versions at a game data level. Since they change html tags and the way they do spacing with each game and change other minor things like switch quote characters used, it is not exact science, but most actual word changes should show up. Oh, and seeing you want to get rid of those captchas, becoming a userspace patroller might be the easiest way (see Special:ListGroupRights and skipcaptcha right). -Alfwyn (talk) 13:51, 2 February 2014 (GMT)


Hey, thanks for catching my mistake with the redirect for Erling. I completely spaced on the namespace prefix (you think you've covered all your bases and then, too late, find out you missed the obvious). Sorry for the trouble. Croaker (talk) 05:47, 12 February 2014 (GMT)

Ha, no problem! I sometimes feel like Lore should be the default namespace too :) -- Hargrimm(T) 05:53, 12 February 2014 (GMT)

20,000 Articles![edit]

Choco chip cookie.png
You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

While you did not make the critical 20,000 article yourself, your efforts were critical to the push over that wall. Thank you for your contributions, and your continued efforts towards improving the UESP! --AKB Talk Cont Mail 22:41, 15 February 2014 (GMT)


Hey Hargrimm. You might be interested in the Spin-off Series Completion Project, if you're planning on doing some (much-needed) work on Redguard. There's not much going on with the project, so feel free to use the page as a central hub for whatever direction you wanna take things in. —Legoless (talk) 22:04, 20 February 2014 (GMT)

Dash formatting[edit]

Correct me if i'm wrong, But I think we are supposed to use "&mdash ;" instead of "-" in the formatting. --Jimeee (talk) 19:10, 21 February 2014 (GMT)

Well, there's a difference between a hyphen and an emdash. If this is in regards to The Salas En Expedition formatting, "Daedra-worshipers" is using a hyphen. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 19:18, 21 February 2014 (GMT)

(edit conflict) :The point of using &mdash ; is to distinguish the em-dash (—, longer) from an en-dash (-, shorter). The uses I replaced in that book were en-dashes, the default dash or hyphen. When forming a compound word, en-dashes are used. Actually, using the &mdash at all is not necessary; inserting the actual — symbol is more readable, and the wiki just replaces &mdash with the actual symbol anyways. But some editors prefer to leave the long form in so it's easier to tell that it is indeed an em-dash, since the wiki editing font does not vary the length of the two all that much. I've just been not changing whatever format they are in, which is why I left all the other em-dashes alone. -- Hargrimm(T) 19:19, 21 February 2014 (GMT)

Observe that, depending on typographical traditions, a hyphen and an n-dash are not necessarily the same even if the used typeface renders them visually the same. The hyphen are sometimes even shorter than the n-dash. Here is more on hyphen, n-dash and m-dashMortenOSlash (talk) 05:58, 23 February 2014 (GMT)
Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. --Jimeee (talk) 12:56, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

Thrassian Plague[edit]

I've noticed in your edit to Lore:First Era that you switched the references for years 2200 and 2260, and made the distinction of what happened in each of them, but the references in place don't reflect that (PGE3 Other Lands doesn't even mention the All Flags Navy while in PGE1 Wild Regions there's no instance of "2260"). Is this perhaps taken from the newly established lore? If so, it should be properly cited. -- Kertaw48 (talk) 07:50, 4 March 2014 (GMT)

Sorry about that, I was in a bit of a hurry at the time. I've updating the entries with more relevant citations. Thanks for bringing it up. -- Hargrimm(T) 20:02, 9 March 2014 (GMT)


As of a minute ago, you are one! Enjoy the many red exclamation marks. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 15:10, 14 March 2014 (GMT)

Congrats! Enjoy the Gift of Exclamation! Jeancey (talk) 15:24, 14 March 2014 (GMT)
Oh wow, thanks so much! RC looks much angrier and more demanding now; I love it! -- Hargrimm(T) 16:27, 14 March 2014 (GMT)

I'm glad I could be one of your first patrols! Thanks for editing Shameer's House. That was actually the rough draft I copied and pasted by mistake, rather than the final version. I guess I need to wear my glasses... --Beezer1029 (talk) 17:35, 14 March 2014 (GMT)

ROFL! I see the curse of the newly appointed patroller is in full force. I swear at least half the patrollers we've ever had have had some silly mistake reverted within 24 hours of their promotion. :) I don't remember what it was I did, but I remember Nephele reverting a couple of my edits shortly after I became a patroller. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:59, 14 March 2014 (GMT)
Honestly, I'm surprised that hasn't happened to me more than once! This stupid laptop trackpad will move my cursor to a random spot with the slightest brush. Can't wait til I get back to my main PC tomorrow, as I'll also be able to get in on the beta. -- Hargrimm(T) 19:03, 14 March 2014 (GMT)
Oh, I know that one! Robin Hood  (talk) 19:17, 14 March 2014 (GMT)
Congratulations from me as well. Be sure to check out the Patrolling Guidelines if you haven't already. Just a quick pointer, be sure to add the {{unsigned}} template to talk page edits that were not signed by their editors before marking them as patrolled. Enjoy your new duties. The thing I like best about patrolling is the articles that it leads you to that you may have never visited otherwise. --Xyzzy Talk 05:11, 19 March 2014 (GMT)
Please see my previous comment and the link to the Patrolling Guidelines. You marked a series of edits on Skyrim:Salmon Roe as patrolled, but it was not signed or indented. That is one of our jobs as patrollers, so please make sure you correct those if you are going to mark them as patrolled. It's not a big deal, but it does need to be done. Thanks. --Xyzzy Talk 23:36, 26 March 2014 (GMT)

For game-specific information[edit]

The "For game-specific information" section appears on countless lore pages that includes an infobox with the same link. While it does seems redundant, but it may be worth getting some sort of consensus if we should be removing these sections on sight - just so everyone is on the same page. --Jimeee (talk) 16:52, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

Yeah, sorry, I was going to post on the Lore page but got distracted by the old explanatory notes discussion. I'll post about it now. -- Hargrimm(T) 16:57, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

Wanted Templates[edit]

Heya! You have a couple of sandboxes that are doing something (IDK what) that puts them on our wanted templates page. Would you mind looking into this and fixing it so they aren't asking for these templates anymore? Thanks! --Nocte|Chat|Look 16:32, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

Sorry, I had just copied over the sidebar template from Wikipedia, including their links. Taken care of now, thanks for letting me know. -- Hargrimm(T) 19:26, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

Redwater Spring[edit]

Your sandbox Hargrimm/Redwater Spring is in the Lore categories, and its already been launched so can you deal with it please. Your sandbox1 on Hermeaus Mora is also in the cats, if you can remove the Lore Gods Trail template from it that would remove the cats, thanks. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 14:11, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

While you're still welcome to fix your sandboxes, I've fixed the templates so that they no longer add inappropriate categories. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:13, 12 July 2014 (GMT)
Alright, I had completely forgotten that Redwater sandbox existed, so it can get deleted. And thanks for updating the template, RH! -- Hargrimm(T) 18:37, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

Emperor's Guide[edit]

Per this edit, would you mind quoting the line about Lake Amaya? We'll need to create a disambig to distinguish between it and the lake on Vvardenfell. —Legoless (talk) 23:27, 24 August 2014 (GMT)

I'm going by the transcription recently put up on the Imperial Library. The relevant passage in the Stonefalls and Deshaan section is: "The southern reaches of Deshaan, where ancient tribes vie for plots of the fertile black soil on which to grow marketable crops, support a variety of crops and livestock. Primitive irrigation along low-lying lands around the Lake Amaya basin provide all the water needed to sustain both plants and animals, although the tribes seem more concerned with rituals than recompense." I didn't even realize the current Amaya is on Vvardenfell instead; not sure how to explain the discrepancy other than carelessness from the writers. -- Hargrimm(T) 23:37, 24 August 2014 (GMT)
Or that there is a person in Morrowind's history named Amaya and both lakes are named after them. Wouldn't be the first time someone had two things named after them in the history of the world. Jeancey (talk) 23:40, 24 August 2014 (GMT)
Same name for different places are not uncommon, even if it is not named after someone or some other place. Take all the Stratfords in England. There are half a dozen of them. —MortenOSlash (talk) 04:49, 25 August 2014 (GMT)
I've made a page for the new lake. —Legoless (talk) 17:03, 6 September 2014 (GMT)

Akaviri is a ancient place.[edit]

Wow you reverted all my edits, i had a lot of work to correct the sentences! Well, i wanted to tell you that the book "Mysterious Akavir" is a very old book that is from the mid to early third era and the continent of Akaviri is in fact a ancient place and the continent is mostly ruins in the present day, all the races that lived there are now extinct because after the Oblivion Crisis more than 200 years have passed and no invasion from Akavir occurred in Tamriel. 00:01, 28 August 2014 (GMT)

There's no doubt that Akavir is an ancient continent. The problem with your edits is that there is literally nothing that states that the continent is in ruins and the races are extinct. The lore namespace uses the present tense as current information from the latest game chronologically. Mysterious Akavir appears in Skyrim and still refers to Akavir as existing. Just because an Akaviri invasion hasn't occurred in 200 years, it doesn't mean it's gone. I'm sorry that you worked hard on those edits, but Hargrimm was right in this case. •WoahBro►talk 00:15, 28 August 2014 (GMT)
Akavir is a frustrating topic for us since there's so few good sources for it, but we still just have to go on what sources we do have. And none of those sources say anything about the races of Akavir going extinct. Also, please use edit summaries in the future. A totally unexplained change is just by default more likely to be contested or reverted than one you give your reasoning for. -- Hargrimm(T) 00:24, 28 August 2014 (GMT)


Hi, Hargrimm. I've very belatedly realized I don't think I ever addressed your concern on the CP regarding The Towers lore page and references to Anumidium. Most sources which make reference to Anumidium are referring unambiguously to the god the Dwemer sought to create, whereas Numidium seems to be most often used to refer to the golem they left behind. I tried to recognize this difference in the Walk Brass section, but it's a hazy, possibly off-base dichotomy, so I'd understand if you want it revised to treat Anumidium as simply an alternative name.

Anyways, I've got to add something to the page for the Doomcrag, as well, so if you'd like me to deal with this at the same time, let me know. Insignificant RevisionsThreatsEvidence 19:08, 4 September 2014 (GMT)

But... consistency![edit]

Just wanted to mention that I realise adding those parameters was technically unnecessary, but I did so for consistency. mapname is currently always defined for {{Online Place Summary}}, whether the same as the pagename or not, and that has been standard for all ESO places created as blank. The stables are only indicated on the Skywatch map in-game, not the Auridon map, as shops and services do not appear on the zone maps, so that's what we should do as well (despite in this case the stables not actually being on the map). As for skyshards, I'd rather add one blank parameter to somewhere that doesn't need it, rather than remove it from 1000+ pages where it's blank. --Enodoc (talk) 13:52, 12 September 2014 (GMT)

I think those parameters were just added to the blank page template since the bot didn't know their values. It makes it easier for later editors to know what to add when the fields are there just waiting to be filled in, but when we're certain there's no need for the fields, there's no point in keeping them. I am 100% certain there are no skyshards within the confines of the stable, and there's absolutely no difference in page content or appearance between having the parameter blank and just getting rid of it. It's optional for a reason. Obviously it's not a big enough deal to go through and deal with it alone, but I consider it one of those 'fix it when you see it' things on the wiki.
I am a little more conflicted on the map zone issue. If the stables really are labeled in that location on the Skywatch map, I guess it would be logical to link there, although it seems really silly to point people to a little spot of blank parchment texture instead of a map that actually shows the building. But if you want to add the settlement back, I probably won't change it :) -- Hargrimm(T) 14:11, 12 September 2014 (GMT)
What I mean is, Jeancey, Silencer and Legoless seem to add in mapname as standard when they create a page, even if it's the same as the pagename. I double-checked, and that is indeed where the Skywatch stables are plonked on the map. I also sent in a /feedback saying they should update the map to include the building since that's where they labelled it. --Enodoc (talk) 18:12, 12 September 2014 (GMT)


Thank you for the Ayleid cookie, it was really motivating :P An agea ae mathangua! --Vordur Steel-Hammer (talk) 20:06, 28 October 2014 (GMT)

The name "Hargrimm"[edit]

It sounds like a name that fits a Wood Elf perfectly. What do you think? Dragon Guard  (talk) 20:36, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

The Emperor's Guide[edit]

Hey, I was talking to Legoless here about the physical guide. I think you mentioned you have a copy of the guide itself, so maybe you can help me? Just need clarification on how a heading on the different sections of the books is treated. Specifically the race/faction part that is repeated ("Redguards of the Daggerfall" etc) Covenant".

My question is, does this heading appear as a sort of sub-title for the book, or does it appear as the main heading for the entire body of the text that follows (as TIL have it). At the moment, I have created the Lore:The Improved Emperor's Guide to Tamriel sections to have the race/faction heading as a sub title, but this might not be true to how it appears in the actual book. Do you think its more faithful to the physical book to have the heading in the main body? Do you know of any screenshots that can be found? Thanks for any help. --Jimeee (talk) 13:26, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

Unfortunately, I don't actually have a copy of the guide. I was working off TIL's transcription, which I believe is the same source being used to add it to the wiki. I'm traveling at the moment so I can't do much investigation myself, but I believe there were some excerpts from the guide made available by Zenimax as PDF samples. If so, that would be a good example for how the sections are laid out normally. Or you could try to trawl through YouTube 'unboxings' of the Imperial edition and see if any give you a good shot of the guide opened up. Good luck! -- Hargrimm(T) 23:55, 8 January 2015 (GMT)
Ah, the Youtube idea is good. Thanks! --Jimeee (talk) 13:01, 12 January 2015 (GMT)

Well done!!![edit]


You have been given a plateful of cookies!
For all of your hard work putting NPC dialogue on Morrowind and some Tribunal pages, allow me to give you — guess what? A PLATEFUL OF COOKIES! Well, what are you waiting for? Eat them before anyone nicks them! Haha!! :D.
Dragon Guard  (talk) 09:47, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

Morrowind dialogue - A-Z or in order encountered?[edit]

If it makes more sense to put it down in the order it's encountered, is this anywhere in the MWOP guidelines? I feel like we should A-Z the dialogue, because: 1) This is commonly done and makes it easier to read. 2) It is how it's organised in-game. 3) We can have a consensus on the CP and see how everyone feels about the decision. That sound okay with you, Hargrimm? I won't post to the CP if you (or somebody else) doesn't want me to. No offence. Dragon Guard  (talk) 17:26, 2 February 2015 (GMT)

No, it appears there aren't really any specific guidelines for MWOP dialogue, other than prior practice itself. Alphabetical order certainly makes sense for general lines that are always available for a given NPC, but when quest-related dialogue occurs, there's a direct narrative that flows through the lines. Presenting those lines out of order is just confusing, making them harder to read and understand. You say they're displayed alphabetically in-game, but that's only after they're revealed in the first place. The topic is not displayed at all until the prior one is heard, enforcing the logical order of reading the related lines. If you want to get a consensus on this specific issue, probably the place to take it up would be the project talk page, since it's an issue specific to MWOP itself and should probably result in a written guideline for that page anyways. -- Hargrimm(T) 18:54, 2 February 2015 (GMT)

Morrowind Dialogue[edit]

Hello! I'm interested in having a page compiling all the lore-relevant general dialogue from Morrowind. Jeancey directed me to you, and I see from the MWOP talk page that you've already been working on a similar page. What you've done is much more thorough than anything I had in mind... for lore purposes, it's not critical to know the exact conditions required for each response; a general idea of what kind of NPCs access it suffices. It's also nice to be able to ctrl-f for key terms, which isn't compatible with collapsible entries. I started work on a page for this in my Sandbox. I'm not sure whether I should continue with that, given your page-in-progress. Thoughts? - Dinmenel (talk) 15:45, 15 April 2015 (GMT)

Yeah, I really need to get back on track with that project. Generating the type of page like your sandbox would be very easy to do automatically, and I should probably just do that and get the info on pages, and worry about the more technical stuff later. I will try and make some progress on restarting that tonight, so thanks for nudging me about it! Also, if you want a lot of text to search through my TES Sources compendium includes all Morrowind dialogue in plain-text (MWD.txt in that zip). -- Hargrimm(T) 16:18, 15 April 2015 (GMT)
Awesome, thanks! I look forward to citing the page many, many times. -Dinmenel (talk) 16:30, 15 April 2015 (GMT)

Patch Notes[edit]

You have been given a plateful of cookies!

Awesome work formatting the entirety of the 2.1.4 patch notes! —Legoless (talk) 20:39, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Fortunately I foresaw that formatting patch notes after patch notes might become an annoyance, so I wrote a little script last year to automate most of the process. Not perfect but it mostly works! I still had to manually stitch together the HTML for all those separate forum posts on this one though... -- Hargrimm(T) 20:55, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Short Merethic Era and LORE consistency[edit]

Hi Hargrim. I think that we have really "too little time" in Merethic Era as whole, to explain too many cultural changes, "cultural developments", etc. Politics, war, invasion, genocide, occurs normally in decades or years. But great cultural changes, the born of a new language, the development of a entirely different vernacular architecture or the pass from the nomadic life to aristocratic-agricultural society, in the ES LORE perspective, really needs a great amount of time. We have the is only a game or the elves are not humans of the real world wildcards, but i think that the ES Lore, all the games and the open world that Bethesda developers began, is not coherent with this superficial fuge. Is not our world don't works how explanation. The "long lifespan" of the mer,complicates the historical explanation. All this not only for Chimer-Velothians, but for Ayleid or Dwemer too (or more...). So, we have the begin of Mer expansion in Tamriel in Middle Merethic Era (post 2500, really post 2000 or more, because 2500 is supposely adamantine tower build data and we have the normal Middle Merethic Era first than Late Middle Merethic and the humans appears in Tamriel in 1000 ME in the Late Merethic Era.

So... we have roughly 1000 years, for:

1.-Migration of the Chimer, change to sedentary culture, development of High Velothi Culture, and her fall. High Velothi culture last 700-1000 years. 2-3 Dunmer common people generations? Really?

2.-Ayleid migration, development of their language, architecture, etc, totally different of the Altmer and the creation of several Ayleid kingdoms. In the same 2-3 generations.

3.- Migration of the Dwemers and arrival to Morrowind first than the Velothi arrived, and when the Chimer finally arrived, the Dwemers had developed a totally alien (for ALL mer and intelligent creature in Mundus) culture, philosophy, tecnology, architecture etc.

4.- The spread of the Snow Elves, their physical and cultural differentiation, etc, that had been living in Skyrim before the Dwemers and proto-nords.

And post 1000 to 1 ME we have:

5.- The expansion of the Direnni, their development and their last mixing with "proto-bretons", and the breton people born.

6.- The arrival (?) of the Nedes to Cyrodiil, the development of their ancestral culture of magic stones, and star observation, first than Ayleids enslaved them.

The Mer that have lifes several times longer than humans, have a period of a total development of a pletora of cultures, physical differentiations, entire civilizations in only 2000 years, while short life humans, that at least lives 3 or 4 times less than mer (whitout think in magues, great nobles and other "magical ultra long-life people") have a development of different empires Cyro-Nord empires, basically, in 4000 years post Alessian revolt, whith the cultural linguistic and physical level of differentiation that we can see in the games... Is a totally nonsense. The First, Second, Third and Fourth "human eras" are 60-120 men generations (depends if we think in entire lifes generations or simple mature-young life generations). 4300 years, 5300 with the 1000 ME are really a moderate big amount of time for the humans, more or less how is for us. But the 2.000 years of Mer presence in Tamriel in Merethic Era, are merely average of 6-7 generations, probably less...

My only logical explanation: The 2500 ME data for Adamantine Tower in early Merethic Era is really, really wrong. Is a human poor aproximation (a nordic bard traditon! or later "archaeological imperial research" to Adamantine Tower in the two sources that we have...) of a period long before the men. The Merethic Era, lasted several millenia, the Era of diversification and development (and fall!) of a lot of mer cultures must be proportional at least at their lifespan difference with men. 2000 years only for the Middle Merethic Era included the Late Midle (and the same amount or more fore the Late Merethic), makes for me a lot more sense than 2000 years for the entire merethic era mer presence in Tamriel. And the "arrival of men" in 1000 ME is probably ok only for Nords, not for the proto-cyrodiilic men and proto-breton men. (The not-from-the-North-origin teory... in the sense not of the real world humans out of Africa more than 100.000 years ago, and migrated, change of language, mix with another populations or isolate, hundreds of times, explanation. Not, rather the every human in the world is not simply bronze-age scandinavian that migrate only 4.000 years ago and change, all vikings not, please not, theory-wish so...). Because proto-bretons and proto-cyrodiilics (colovian nede part too) have a difficult fit too in the 1000 ME arrival scheme.

Sorry for my english and for the excessive extension.

--Illo (talk) 21:45, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


Hi Hargrimm. If you're still interested, please send me an email containing the email address you use for Tumblr, and I will add you to it. Additionally, I can assist with getting you access to our Twitter if you still desire that. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 02:34, 5 September 2016 (UTC)