User talk:RobinHood70/Archive2015

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This is an archive of past User talk:RobinHood70 discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Community Portal[edit]

Hi RH!

Please please please could you take a look at this discussion that I would like some input about—UESPWiki:Community_Portal#Second-hand_forum_confirmations_by_Gstaff_-_sufficiently_reliable_OOG_for_lore.3F. P.S. Only ONE admin has registered opinions on the matter.

Thanks! :) Dragon Guard  (talk) 00:58, 30 December 2014 (GMT)

I'll just be blunt. Administrator opinions are no more valid than the opinion of the common user, and unless it's disciplinary, which this discussion isn't, then a second administrator doesn't have to reply. In fact, administrators don't need to reply period, and without Legoless or RH70's opinion on the matter, a discussion can still create the desired result. Prodding RH70 every time you have an issue you disagree with won't help you, and RH70's opinion can't (and won't) be your saving grace to every disagreement you have with the other users of the community. It's a waste of his time and your time petitioning to him for every trivial matter on your mind.-damon  talkcontribs 01:23, 30 December 2014 (GMT)
In addition to what Damon said, it's safe to assume that just about any staff member or prominent user reads the Admin Noticeboard and Community Portal, and that if they have input, they'll give it. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:43, 30 December 2014 (GMT)
OK, thanks guys. Dragon Guard  (talk) 15:34, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

NPC Template[edit]

Would it be possible to implement the lore links for {{NPC Summary}}, similar to {{Online NPC Summary}}? —Legoless (talk) 21:13, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

Apparently not, for reasons which elude me right now. Everything seems fine and the individual parts test fine—the final product just doesn't work. Very puzzling. I'll give the job queue a chance to catch up with all the changes I've made, then take it to sandboxes tomorrow and see if I can get it working. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:57, 2 January 2015 (GMT)

Question about Alchemy Effects[edit]

Dear RobinHood70,

I recently added a section at "Alchemy Effects" in the discussions tab. If I got it right then you did some edits to this section to improve readability.

Then again, my added section doesn't seem to appear at the discussions tab anymore. Did I do something wrong?

Best regards - Tascani85.179.119.7 17:24, 5 January 2015 (GMT)

It's still there, so I'm not quite sure why you can't see it. Maybe you looked on the actual article and not the talk page? •WoahBro►talk 19:25, 5 January 2015 (GMT)
IP users sometimes get outdated versions of pages. As I recall, the page can simply be purged (assuming you're looking at it normally, just add ?action=purge to the end of the URL...editing, doing nothing at all, and re-saving may also work, but I'm not 100% sure if that works for IPs). Alternatively, you can create an account so that you will always see the most recent version of the page. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:42, 5 January 2015 (GMT)


I sent you an e-mail, but you haven't replied. There was a link in it, so maybe it somehow got into the spam folder? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 16:38, 6 January 2015 (GMT)

Sorry, I just forgot about it. I'll have another look at it. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:20, 6 January 2015 (GMT)

Personal info in an edit[edit]

Hey RobinHood! I reverted this edit, but did not specify in the summary that it contained personal information. Just wanted to point it out, since I noticed you delete those. - Shuryard (talk) 01:07, 12 January 2015 (GMT)

Taken care of, thanks! Robin Hood  (talk) 01:26, 12 January 2015 (GMT)
Thank you! I will make sure to specify those things in the summary in the future :) - Shuryard (talk) 01:42, 12 January 2015 (GMT)
Thanks, that'll make it easier to spot. Alternatively, if nobody notices it, just bring it to the A/N or a specific admin's page if you notice that one is active. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:44, 12 January 2015 (GMT)
Will do. - Shuryard (talk) 01:53, 12 January 2015 (GMT)

Help with tables within show/hide function[edit]

Hi Robin,

I don't whether you can help, but I'm trying to create a hidden table within a show/hide function, but can't get the coding correct. You can see it here. What I'm trying to achieve is five columns, four with five items in each and the last with three, all aligned to the top and four items with symbols relating to two notes beneath the table, all hidden within a show/hide function. I hope that makes sense. If you can help or advise who to look to I'd appreciate it. Also where would I look to read up on the different functions and coding available? Thanks a million and hope things are going well with you. Biffa (talk) 00:56, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

This is one of those cases where you want to switch to the {{Showhide/Start}} and {{Showhide/End}} variation. Embedding tables within a regular {{Showhide}} is stupidly complex, requiring most | characters to be replaced by the {{!}} template. Not fun. As far as the coding goes, we have Help:Templates and Help:Tables, Wikipedia has various Help pages, plus there's the documentation on each of our template pages. Looking at the various template categories can help you discover what templates we have, though we could probably stand to do a little bit of reorganizing there. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:03, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Thank you so much, it was melting my brain trying to work it out. Biffa (talk) 09:50, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Cheers for the help, but I've actually gone for a collapsible collapsed table that I saw on the help page on this occasion. I'm sure I'll use the other show/hide|start on other occasions. Biffa (talk) 17:12, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
When I made the edits, I just answered the question you asked without really thinking about what I was doing, but yes, a collapsible collapsed table is often the better way to go for those things. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

Falmer TrueType Font[edit]

Hi RobinHood!

I was talking with AKB in the chat tonight and he pointed me in your direction, since you created the Daedric Font and the Dragon Font.

I have created a version of the Falmer Alphabet which looks pretty good (all glyphs are sized to capital letters, only capital letters, and everything is constrained nicely, especially with how script-y the Falmer alphabet is). Would you happen to know how I would go about implementing it within the UESP so that I can begin cleaning up articles like Skyrim:Gallus's Encoded Journal?

Thanks so much for your help! GodRaineTalk 03:36, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

All I really need is the TrueType font itself, though if your font editor supports additional formats, it would save me some steps (and might produce a cleaner online font, I'm not sure) if you can provide .woff and .eot fonts as well. Otherwise, I can just put the .ttf through a converter. Once you've got any or all of those, you can either upload them here or send me an e-mail at (my user name in lower-case)
Oh and just for the record, Nephele did the Daedric font. I just followed her example when I did the Dragon font. Robin Hood  (talk) 15:22, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Sent to you via email. Thank you! GodRaineTalk 16:20, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Okay, it looks to be working in all major PC browsers (see my sandbox). I can't test any phone-, Mac-, or Linux-based browsers because I don't have any, so if you have or know people who have any of those, it might be good to test in them as well...particularly very old versions of iOS, which apparently use the SVG format. I used a converter for that and I have no way to know if it worked or not. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:34, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Thank you! I've already started using it and have updated the Lore:Falmer Alphabet and Skyrim:Gallus's Encoded Journal pages. I just tested my sandbox on iOS 8.2 (Build 12B440) in Chrome (iOS Version 39.0.2171.50) and it does not appear to display properly, instead choosing to display the Falmer text in English. I'll leave that in your capable hands or to the rest of the administrators ... I have no idea what I would do to help fix that, but if you require my help, please ask. :) GodRaineTalk 18:20, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
It's likely a caching issue. Did you visit UESP before on your iOS? It works fine on Android. —Legoless (talk) 18:27, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Do a hard refresh and see what happens. At least in Chrome on the PC, that's the Refresh button up by the URL—just hitting F5 will not do a hard refresh. Not sure how that translates to Chrome on the iOS, though. I had to refresh a couple of times in IE when I tried it there, but it did eventually work. No idea why it took more than one, but that may be something to try as well. Let me know what happens and where it does/doesn't work after a hard refresh. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:14, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
If you go to Settings>Content Settings>Website Settings on your Chrome app, deleting the wiki's stored data might clear your cache. —Legoless (talk) 19:20, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
So I went into Chrome, closed all tabs, went to Settings > Privacy > Clear All Data (cookies, cache, passwords, history, etc), then force-closed the app and restarted it and checked my Sandbox - still only showed the capital lettering in place of the Falmer text. What's odd about this is that on my userpage, the Dragon Alphabet displays perfectly fine. I'm using my sandbox (instead of the actual article page for Gallus's Encoded Journal) because for some reason, the journal article hasn't even updated when I render it in Chrome - it still shows the old version with the cleanup tag, even though I can go into the History tab and see that there is the most recent version (clicking that still brings me to the old version). Not sure what else I could do ... maybe we need to test on more iOS devices. Maybe mine is borked. :P GodRaineTalk 19:31, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

() The fact that the journal isn't showing the most recent version suggests that there's either something wrong on your end or you're just plain logged out (or in some bizarre half-logged-in state?). If you can get that to display properly, then that'll be an indication that the Falmer text should be showing up properly as well. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:53, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

Well would you look at that. I wasn't even aware of the fact that being logged out was the issue. I logged in, refreshed, and both my sandbox and the page for Gallus's Encoded Journal are rendering correctly now. I feel slightly ridiculous :) Thanks RobinHood and Legoless! GodRaineTalk 20:00, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Yay! :) Glad to hear it's working. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:11, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

"Outdated" Template[edit]

Do we have one? I'm thinking of something that works similarly but oppositely to {{Pre-Release}}. Such a thing would be useful for some ESO articles if we do not have one; specifically for things that are marked as changed in the Patch Notes, but that we cannot verify immediately. For example: Some or all of the information on this page has become outdated as of the most recent patch. Please update the information to be current, then remove the {{Outdated}} tag. If we don't, I'd be happy to make it; if we do, please could you point me towards it? Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 19:26, 20 January 2015 (GMT)

{{Outdated Tech}} is pretty much what you're describing. It's only used on a few Tes4Mod articles currently. I wouldn't be opposed to renaming it simply "Outdated", as you suggest, since "Tech" implies that it's an article about a piece of technology. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:37, 20 January 2015 (GMT)
Nah, that message wouldn't really fit if we actually want an article to be updated. A simple {{cleanup}} message with a description saying "outdated" is probably preferable to a new template, for categorisation and such. The thing about the pre-release tag is that it gets added en masse. —Legoless (talk) 21:47, 20 January 2015 (GMT)
Fair enough. To me, cleanup refers to problems with style, rather than content, but if you think that's sufficient then I agree we can just use that one. --Enodoc (talk) 22:30, 20 January 2015 (GMT)

Bot Task Request[edit]

Hi Robin!

I'm very glad I asked about this, because I seriously would have taken the time to do it myself - but I figured that Skyrim:Generic Magic Apparel had all of its chart entries and values put in by a bot. Thankfully I was right.

Asking because Dragonborn:Generic Magic Armor hasn't been edited since 2012 and it has all of the raw entry data on it. I started building the page in my sandbox, modeling it after the Skyrim Generic Magic Apparel page, but when I started entering in all of the values by hand, I quickly realized it would have taken forever.

AKB suggested to me that you've got a bot that could handle processing this data and creating the relevant tables for it. Would you mind adding that to your list of things to do? I would really appreciate it. :) I've left the work I did on that sandbox intact just in case it makes things easier for you (but something tells me that the bot will just redo all of that anyway).

Thank you! --GodRaineTalk 03:29, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

Unfortunately, it's not quite as easy as AKB would like to believe :), but I can certainly save you quite a bit of time. First off, the bot itself is actually no help at all here. Even the Skyrim version wasn't bot-created. What we do have, though, is Nephele's game data from CS List. Unfortunately, the Level column is rather tricky, so I'm going to have to take a look at the best approach. Once I'm done, I'll dump everything into a single table, sorted roughly in the right order, then you'll have to copy & paste from there. With luck, I should have that for you tomorrow. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:27, 25 January 2015 (GMT)
Fantastic, thank you Robin. I may have inferred a bit of AKB's meaning, so no fault to him. :) Can't wait to see the results!
Oh and if for whatever reason the Level value needs to be entered manually, that's not a problem - the bot would still be saving me 99% of the work so I would be happy to do it. --GodRaineTalk 06:02, 25 January 2015 (GMT)
Okay, User:RobinHood70/He is what I was able to get for you. Since the original Magic Apparel page isn't entirely clear on what the Level stat represents exactly, I can't be 100% sure that my Level is the same thing, but I checked a couple of the originals at random (and then spent most of the day tweaking and checking at random some more...that column's just a nightmare) and the ones I checked appear to match what's on the page, so hopefully the Dragonborn ones will also be accurate. The sorting may not be perfectly correct either, but it should be close enough to make the rest of your job pretty straight-forward. If there's anything else you need, let me know. Robin Hood  (talk) 07:06, 26 January 2015 (GMT)


Per this discussion, what do you have in mind? Legoless and me are no good with flowcharts, so maybe you could create one (as you're good with templates), then see how it looks. If not, then there's always alternatives. Dragon Guard  (talk) 15:37, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

Need some help[edit]

Hey, Robin. Could I please get some assistance with this? Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 04:06, 28 January 2015 (GMT)

It looks like AKB got it. Sorry, you must've just missed me when I swapped back into Arena for a bit. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:28, 28 January 2015 (GMT)

Online NPC Summary template[edit]

Hey, RobinHood! I am trying to address this concern. It is nothing urgent or truly necessary, I am just curious if you have a quick answer. Is there a workaround for using another template in the health field? Thanks! ~ Shuryard (talk) 16:21, 28 January 2015 (GMT)

The template itself was the problem and has been fixed. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:08, 28 January 2015 (GMT)
Thank you! That was quick and exceeded my hopes ;) ~ Shuryard (talk) 19:47, 28 January 2015 (GMT)

Skyrim Leveled List Templates[edit]

Hey, I have no idea on how leveled lists for Skyrim are currently handled. But I did stumble upon a leveled gold reward template, and I was wondering if there are, or should be, plans to increment templates for all sorts of leveled list, or if a page listing leveled lists is (to be) made. I was thinking you'd probably be best aware of these things ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 06:27, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

Edit: Ok sorry, I just searched leveled lists and yeah... I'm just lazy. In any case, my point was really about templates and whether there can be more, because I like the idea ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 06:31, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

There can be if there's a need for them. Looking at what you just added, yeah, I can see why you'd want one. I'll do one tomorrow. Robin Hood  (talk) 07:11, 1 February 2015 (GMT)
Well thing is, those are all the instances those two lists are used, except for a chest at the end of the TG. Maybe another quick question if you're here: can you put a blank row in a table? It's hard to explain, but I'm working on another list (here I was thinking it'd be a quick add), and well... well maybe I should finish it first and then let you see ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 07:38, 1 February 2015 (GMT)
I've finished the table here. You can see I crossed out the lower levels, which can't be received, so my idea was to level the receivable ones, by putting an empty colon in between to separate them, so it could be easier to read. That was the idea. But I can't get it to give me 4 normal empty frames, let alone a smooth empty frame to span the whole... thing (similar to the empty frame in the first table, which I was able to get because it was on the right side of the table). I hope you understand what I'm trying to say, cause I'm not good at it!
I'm half asleep and I'm not sure I understood all that, but to get an empty row, just add an   to one of the cells.
Levels Light Levels Heavy
Robin Hood  (talk) 08:59, 1 February 2015 (GMT)
Thanks, that's sort of what I was asking, but I was wondering if you could have space without the frames, so empty row in the middle isn't spliced up with empty frames, just one big frame. But don't worry about it now, it can wait. Have a good night ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 09:08, 1 February 2015 (GMT)
Yes, exactly! This seems to work, let me see what I can do with that table now ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 09:27, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

() You know, it just occured to me, using colors would probably be a lot better. See this is why people should edit in a sandbox instead :D. Anyway, at least I learned more about tables, until I forget tomorrow ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 09:53, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

Uraccen Dialogue[edit]

Hey, I'm bothering you again because that's customary. I'm cleaning up Uraccen's page because I thought it'd be quick, but the page missed dialogue, plus, I have uncovered some more dialogue that I have question about. It seems to me, like you were initially intended to enter the mines if you were sent to jail as well, apart from the quest. There are conditions for the dialogue regarding your bounty (and I'm not quite sure how they work), and two lines of which one you'll hear when you're on the quest, and the other one when you're not (though I swear I've heard them both before, so I'm not sure).

The two lines I mean are these: "I hear you're in for life. Sad. I'd get a shiv if I was you, or maybe some Skooma to drown your troubles." and "My advice? Serve your time at the pickaxe and get out. You don't want to end up getting a shiv in the guts over a bottle of Skooma." There's also two hello lines with the condition that you be NOT on the quest: "You should just serve your time. Find an ore vein and start digging.""' and "You're not in here for life, like I am."

Can you help me out with the dialogue? Or CAN you actually enter that part of the mine through getting jailed normally? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 00:50, 9 February 2015 (GMT)

I can't really tell you much more than you've already come up with. I don't remember what happens when you're jailed in Markarth if it's before the quest; I'd have to try that in-game. If I recall correctly, though, you can end up in the mines if you're jailed after No One Escapes Cidhna Mine. That might account for the alternative line of dialogue. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:12, 9 February 2015 (GMT)
Hi guys, I just stumbled on this page and saw this. I was the one who wrote Uraccen's dialogue back in the day when I was adding dialogue to Skyrim's NPCs. If you go to prison in Markarth before or after the quest you end up in cidhna mine and have to mine ore to get out instead of sleeping in a bed. I'm not sure about some of that dialogue but the line "My advice? Serve your time at the pickaxe and get out. You don't want to end up getting a shiv in the guts over a bottle of Skooma." is definitely heard DURING the quest. RIM (talk) 17:30, 3 March 2015 (GMT)
I didn't know you have access to the mine by just getting incarcerated. I thought you ended up in the small cell with the bed, with the gate to the mine locked. Though yeah, I'm not keen on getting imprisoned, and seeing as I've always got coin by the masses, I just pay my bounties off when I get them. If this is true, the article needs some substantial rework, separating the normal dialogue from the quest dialogue. Regardless, it still needs some work, e.g. missing inventory, spells should be mentioned in intro, quest mentions etc. I've been thinking about getting a Skyrim NPC Project started, so that'd make these things standard. Not sure where to get the ball rolling though, community portal? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 07:03, 4 March 2015 (GMT)

Blocking Bot IPs[edit]

I've noticed you block IPs indefinitely in the past when they were bots and the like. I'd been told that was not a good idea back in the day, though that may just have been regarding the "normal" vandals, I can't remember. So I inquire about it again, is it a bad idea? Should I block bots indefinitely instead of just 1 year?

If I have, it's been by accident. I try to only ever block accounts indefinitely and IPs for a year or less. By all means, if you see that I've blocked an IP indefinitely, please change it. It occurs to me now that maybe I've been doing it wrong and when I block an account indefinitely, it's also auto-blocking the IP indefinitely? I'll investigate and fix, if necessary. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:51, 24 February 2015 (GMT)
Looking back, it looks like I did a bunch just under a year ago as permanents. Some of those may have been proxies, which I also consider valid targets for permanent blocks, but I suspect I hadn't clued in yet that IPs shouldn't get permanent blocks. Looking through the history, we've got a number of permanent blocks that should probably be removed or reduced. TOR exit nodes, for example, are likely to change over time and are also now handled by the Tor blocker anyway. I'm going to bring this up on AN before I do anything, though, because I think we should try to be consistent about things like this. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:02, 24 February 2015 (GMT)

How about a quicky? ;)[edit]

Okay, maybe not like that, but I do have a fast question. In regards to this recent upload, what would be the appropriate prefix for gender icons? Would it follow the user-userbox prefix of the other icons? I ask this because none of the gender userbox images are given a naming prefix in line with other userboxes, and while I myself don't care to handle it immediately, as it doesn't feel like an urgent task to accomplish, those icons probably need updating and the userbox templates and other links to the images ought to be updated at some point as well. Plus whatever other images need updating, but one thing at a time. :p Damon(talkemail) 01:32, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

I don't think we have any formal system set up for those. Since they don't belong to any particular game, and they're function essentially as icons, I'd be tempted to name them just Icon-<name>. There are lots of things, like our various check marks, that could then be grouped into that category, rather than having the gender icons just on their own somewhere. We've actually already got a few things that are following either that convention or similar (e.g., "Ico-" and "Icon_"). Robin Hood  (talk) 01:59, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

{{Online NPC Summary}} modification[edit]

Hey RobinHood! Ladrelas has two shops of different kinds, which is so far an unprecedented case in ESO. I tried to come up with a workaround, but it seems that a better solution will be to accommodate his weirdness with the template modification so that the field sells would take two parameters. Could you take a look at it, please?   ~ Shuryard (talk) 18:25, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

Okay, there's now a sells2 parameter. It looks like it works, but I didn't actually save the change to Ladrelas, just in case I've misunderstood anything. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:14, 8 March 2015 (GMT)
Yes, it works perfectly. Thank you!   ~ Shuryard (talk) 20:29, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

House Telvanni Categories[edit]

Hey RobinHood! It's me again :) I was wondering about category Morrowind-Factions-House Telvanni-0 which was never created, but contains 40 pages. It looks like pages in it should belong to the category Morrowind-Factions-House Telvanni-Hireling instead, but second parameter in the {{Faction}} did not convert from "0" to a string. For example, for Aglarir. Same thing is true for categories Morrowind-Factions-House Telvanni-1‏‎ and Morrowind-Factions-House Telvanni-3‏‎.

It looks like all other ranks in the Morrowind-Factions-House_Telvanni-Ranks category got converted correctly. For instance, Brolmir correctly belongs to the category ...-Spellwright, I assume because this line: {{Faction|House Telvanni|5}} was changed to {{Faction|House Telvanni|Spellwright}}.

I was thinking, perhaps, HotnBOThered could take care of it? Thanks!   ~Shuryard (talk) 16:06, 16 March 2015 (GMT)

P.S. I am not trying to come up with a job for you :) I am just trying to learn about templates and functions. The purpose of this message is actually to confirm that my guesses are correct. If they are, I can do it manually, not a problem.   ~Shuryard (talk) 16:42, 16 March 2015 (GMT)
I'm not seeing any issues currently—the categories you mention appear to be empty. My guess is that the House Telvanni page, which is what saves the actual the rank names, just needed to be purged and that someone has done it since you posted the message. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2015 (GMT)
Jeancey left me a message, it was probably him. So, just out of curiosity, when the House Telvanni page is edited again, those categories will reappear, won't they?   ~Shuryard (talk) 18:21, 16 March 2015 (GMT)
It's possible, yeah. It seems to be a long-standing version issue with MetaTemplate. At some point, it stopped behaving 100% reliably and saved variables occasionally don't show up. Purging the page usually fixes the issue. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:34, 16 March 2015 (GMT)
I see. Thank you.   ~Shuryard (talk) 22:22, 16 March 2015 (GMT)


Hey RH. I've was going through the mentor list, and noticed you don't actually have the userbox on your page. Adding Category:Mentors instead would do the trick. —Legoless (talk) 23:56, 3 April 2015 (GMT)

Thanks, I totally forgot about that side of it. I've added the category for now, as you suggested. I'll have to add the userbox at some point, but I don't see anywhere that it would fit nicely right now without reorganizing everything. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:42, 4 April 2015 (GMT)

Sybille Stentor[edit]

Hey Robin, hope you're doing well! I've been working on a revamp of Sybille Stentor in my sandbox and have ran into a couple of issues with some of her behavior.

The first problem occurred with her schedule, which wasn't a surprise to me. As far as I remembered from personal experience, she always seemed to be standing in the main area by Elisif's court at all times until she began to suffer from the bug already listed on the page that causes her to sleep at all times. With my more recent testing, this seems to hold true. She never leaves her spot in the court when she is supposed to have the schedule that is currently on the page that involves her working in her room and sleeping. I'm guessing she may have an issue similar to Falk Firebeard or something is giving priority to that package like with what was happening with Jod the last time I bothered you.

The second issue was more of a surprise to me. It seems Sybille has some dialogue that I'm assuming should be said after The Man Who Cried Wolf. It would be heard around the start of The Wolf Queen Awakened, right before you talk to Falk (one line of it can be found here, or you can look in my sandbox for the dialogue). However, I couldn't get Sybille to say any of it in-game. From what I can tell by looking in the CK though, this would make sense since the quest stage requirements for the dialogue appear to be impossible to achieve.

Any help you can provide with this will be greatly appreciated! Forfeit (talk) 02:52, 10 April 2015 (GMT)

The fact that she does nothing but stand in the court all the time comes from the MS06Start (The Man Who Cried Wolf) quest. If you look at her alias there, you'll see it adds a package called MS06SybillePreAudiencePackage, which sends her to the court area. Since the quest actually starts at the beginning of a game, that's where she is all the time at first. Nominally, this continues while MS06 (The Wolf Queen Awakened) is at stage 0. I don't see anything that shuts down the MS06Start quest offhand, so it's possible that that quest keeps on running, hence the check. I'm not sure about that. One way or the other, though, either at the end of The Man Who Cried Wolf or the beginning of The Wolf Queen Awakened, that check will be removed/fail and her regular packages would kick in. At that point, since the sleep package is a 24/7 schedule (contrary to what the name suggests) and is at the top of the list instead of the bottom, she ends up sleeping all the time. On a side note, the Thane quest doesn't appear to be involved directly, unlike what the bug description says now. You may want to double-check that in game.
And yes, you're right about the quest stage requirements for the dialogue. It is, obviously, impossible to have a quest stage that is simultaneously both <= 105 and >= 1000. My guess is that it was supposed to occur between those stages and they just got the comparison backwards. Would that make sense? Robin Hood  (talk) 15:57, 10 April 2015 (GMT)
Ha, I'm getting sloppy - I never noticed that sleeping package was for all times! That would explain a lot. I just tested her schedule in-game through the different quest stages, and her behavior matched with what you said more or less. She is constantly found standing in the court area before, during, and after The Man Who Cried Wolf. Similarly, she will still be there before you receive the letter and before you talk to Falk. Perhaps a bit less expected though, she actually still remained at her spot even after The Wolf Queen Awakened was formally started. It wasn't until the completion of that quest (you were right, the Thane quest has nothing to do with this) that she stopped standing in the main area. As soon as I told Falk that Potema had been taken care of, she immediately walked to her room and went to bed and then continued to sleep there at all times due to the bugged sleeping package.
Also, I agree that the conditions for the dialogue were probably flipped by mistake. If they would have been entered correctly, I believe that dialogue would have been said when I mentioned that it was, around the beginning of The Wolf Queen Awakened before you talk to Falk.
Anyways, I think that this settles the issues I was having with Miss Stentor. Thanks for the help! Forfeit (talk) 18:25, 10 April 2015 (GMT)
Ah, I missed the bit about Sybille staying there throughout The Wolf Queen Awakened. There's a package added by that quest which also keeps her there. The condition on it is invalid ("UNKNOWN" shouldn't be possible), so it's ignored and the package takes effect for the entire quest. Looking at the USKP, it fixes all of the package issues, though it seems like it would still keep her at the court from the beginning of the game, so there may be a good reason to do so, I'm not sure. It doesn't do anything for the faulty condition on the dialogue, though, so I'll report that to them. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:10, 10 April 2015 (GMT)
I posted about the missing dialogue to the USKP people and Arthmoor replied. I think you have to have an account there to see the actual replies, though, so let me know if you want me to cross-post it here. The short of it is that it appears to have been deliberately cut. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:56, 14 April 2015 (GMT)

() I made an account and read the reply and what he says makes sense. It would have been an issue for her to tell you about Potema's return only for you to have to wait days to receive a letter before you can do anything about it. I think the point about the scrying is a little more debatable, as the necromancers could have been using some sort of spell to hide their presence, but once the ritual was broken up and Potema was released, Sybille could then easily detect Potema's presence since that spell would no longer be in effect. Regardless, I'll mention that the dialogue may have been intentionally cut on the page. Thanks for further looking into this! Forfeit (talk) 02:00, 15 April 2015 (GMT)

Restore account[edit]

Hi RobinHood! I've been searching for a way to restore my account and someone in the wiki chat guided me to you. I've registered an account here a few years ago and forgot the mail to which I attached it. Now I know that this is a strange request and it would be easier to create a new one, but I like my nickname and I don't want to change the account. Can you help me with this, please? Or perhaps you know someone who can do it? I wouldn't mind if my mail was written here somewhere, so I can restore account as usual or I can provide some additional information if needed. Thanks in advance! ZLOJ 16:31, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

I can see why you're having trouble getting in. Your account e-mail is invalid because you used ",ru" instead of ".ru". :) I've updated it to You may still have difficulty, since the account isn't authenticated. If you do have any problems, just e-mail me from that e-mail address and I'll reply with a temporary password. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:24, 24 April 2015 (GMT)
Thanks! Finally I've have me again :) ZLOJ (talk) 20:01, 25 April 2015 (GMT)
No problem. Glad I could help. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:06, 25 April 2015 (GMT)

Maximum file size[edit]

I remember in the past that the "Maximum file size (a file on your computer)" on Special:Upload was 10 MB, but now it seems to be 2 MB. Was this changed on purpose, or is it the result of a MediaWiki upgrade? I was trying to update File:ON-map-Cyrodiil (unmarked locations).jpg with some missing places when I noticed that 10 MB was no longer the maximum size. Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 16:14, 4 May 2015 (GMT)

It was definitely 2 MB when I was uploading these in 2011. —Legoless (talk) 16:16, 4 May 2015 (GMT)
I've actually seen it vary wildly. I was uploading an image once (the image wasn't even 2 MB) and the listed limit said 64 mb. I have no idea what causes it to change. Jeancey (talk) 16:30, 4 May 2015 (GMT)
I am inclined to agree that it seems to fluctuate. It was definitely 10 when I uploaded the previous versions of that map in September, as well as when I uploaded the base Cyrodiil map in February 2014 (and a revision in March). Finding the cause of the fluctuation may help in the reuploading. --Enodoc (talk) 16:50, 4 May 2015 (GMT)
It's a MediaWiki setting. You've now got me confused, though, as the default is supposed to be 100MB and I don't see anything anywhere that would limit it to 2MB. I'll have a look around. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:26, 4 May 2015 (GMT)
Okay, got it. It's a PHP setting that's reducing it from the normal MediaWiki default. I don't have permission to change that. As I'd vaguely remembered, though, the setting is increased on content3 specifically for the exceptions like this, so just go to content3's upload page and you should be able to upload it properly from there. Don't forget to switch back to the regular www server when you're done. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:57, 4 May 2015 (GMT)
Thanks, using content3 worked fine (if you're interested, the limit there was at 22 MB). Nice to see what the cause is as well. Thanks again! --Enodoc (talk) 20:31, 4 May 2015 (GMT)


I'm trying to find out why mapicons keep breaking and calling for files that don't exist and never will. Might it have something to do with this edit to {{Place Link}}, as the problem is that the conflict is that they look for a File:Skyrim-mapicon rather than the File:SR-mapicon. Special:WantedFiles shows the problems. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 01:14, 5 May 2015 (GMT)

That's just bizarre. There's actually nothing wrong with any of the templates, and simply null-editing the problematic Place page seems to be fixing it, but everything in the templates and in MetaTemplate's data looks fine, even before the null-edit. I've just done a null-edit on Place Summary itself, which will hopefully fix the problem, though it'll take a while to get through all of it. I'll try to keep an eye on it, but let me know if you notice it happening again. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:42, 5 May 2015 (GMT)
While that seems to have corrected a few links, it didn't get anywhere near what I'd thought it would. It's late here, so I'll have another look at this tomorrow. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:40, 5 May 2015 (GMT)
This has been happening for ages, and I don't really remember when it started, but I think it was a couple of months after ESO's release that I started really noticing it. I also couldn't identify any particular edit that would cause it to happen. What I did notice though is that someone started creating redirects to fix it, which shouldn't be necessary if we can identify the source of the problem. --Enodoc (talk) 09:48, 5 May 2015 (GMT)
I think it's either a problem with MetaTemplate or it's a problem with our caching system. I've looked through MetaTemplate and fixed a few things over the years, but I don't see anything obviously wrong with it. I'm kind of at my wit's end with it, myself. I'll keep looking, though. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:03, 5 May 2015 (GMT)

() For the time being, the only thing we can do is go to the place pages that are generating the incorrect links, purge them, then purge the affected pages as well (and apparently, even that doesn't always work). Robin Hood  (talk) 19:04, 5 May 2015 (GMT)

It seemed to plateau around the 90 mark, it was over 180 when I first looked and started purging pages a week or two before my post here. I'm clearing them out again so just marking down the time. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 21:52, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
I just got rid of the remaining ones. Now to see if they'll stay that way. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:01, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Ontus Vanin[edit]

Hey Robin! So, I'm bothering you this time as I'm currently trying my hand at writing a schedule for Ontus Vanin. I have a rough draft of the schedule in my sandbox here along with some notes about what I've observed from his behavior in-game. To sum up what I've written in my sandbox, I'm having issues fully understanding his random behavior that occurs from 2pm - 8pm involving his packages to visit different shops and the package OntusStayPut14x6. From what I've observed in-game, Ontus seems to usually constantly visit the five stores in the Market District at random, leaving the store as soon as you follow him into it. After he leaves a store, he will travel to another one, leave it immediately, and ultimately repeat this behavior until 8pm when the duration for all these packages is over. He does stay in the store as long as you don't follow him into it though. There have been a few occasions though where it seems like the OntusStayPut14x6 package kicks in as he will sometimes start to wander around for a little bit at whatever location he may be in. However, usually after a few in-game minutes he will stop wandering around and will instead travel to a random store.

When I initially looked at his schedule in the CS, I guessed that he would have a random chance of traveling to each of these locations. However, once he went through all the shop packages, I figured the OntusStayPut14x6 would kick in and he would just wander at the last store he successfully visited (or wherever he was before 2pm if all the shop visiting packages told him to not go to the store). So I guess my main question is why does Ontus continuously attempt to travel to one of the five stores rather than just eventually wandering around due to the StayPut package? My guess is due to the fact that these packages have a duration of six hours, it causes him to constantly run through them until one of them tells him to travel to a store. If I have the right idea here, my other question would be regarding how the OntusStayPut14x6 fits into his schedule. Does it ever even effect him and why does it seem like he'll start to execute his travel packages again once a few minutes have passed after he starts using this package? From my observations, I'm guessing that it will come into play for a little bit, but since all the travel packages take precedence over the StayPut package, he will only wander around until one of the travel packages tells him to travel to a store. This would perhaps explain the few brief moments I saw him start to wander around but then travel to a store shortly after.

As always, any insight you can provide into his schedule will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Forfeit (talk) 02:00, 19 May 2015 (GMT)

So, what you're saying is that I should get off my behind and install Oblivion on the "new" laptop I've had for two months now? ;) I'll do that tonight and probably get back to you on this tomorrow. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:21, 19 May 2015 (GMT)
You've got it exactly right, if I've understood everything correctly. As I recall, Oblivion re-evaluates a character's packages on a regular basis, and changing locations will forcibly trigger a re-evaluation for everyone in the location (which is why you see different behaviour if you enter the store vs. waiting outside). Since there's nothing on the random packages that prevents them from running again and again, he picks a random location each time a re-evaluation occurs and sticks with that package until he arrives at his target location. When the random chance for all of them fails, he'll simply wander around wherever he is. But then, even without the player doing anything, the re-evaluation kicks in a few minutes later and it goes through the entire cycle again, which might send him to another store, the same store, or tell him to wander. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2015 (GMT)
Alright, I'm glad to see that you came up with the same idea for his schedule. Now I just need to come up with a nice way to write this up without sounding too technical. Though I must say, I think I've already done my job as a UESP editor for the day by causing you to install Oblivion again. :) Anyways, thanks for the help! Forfeit (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2015 (GMT)

Page Swap and Web Chat[edit]

Hi there! I was wondering if you would be able to do a quick page-swap, please. Online:Jodewood Dolmen and Online:Dawnmead Dolmen should be the other way around. I was going to ask in the chat, but apparently "#uespwiki Cannot join channel (You're banned)", so I was hoping you could have a look at what happened there as well. Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 19:55, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Well aren't you special...why are you banned? :) I'll get on it. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Okay, the swap is done and the webchat client is no longer banned. Apparently, there was an annoying person on earlier, so it was short-term banned. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:05, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Thankee muchly  :) --Enodoc (talk) 20:46, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Diablo II mod[edit]

You should definitely send me your mod. That would be very much useful. ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 08:30, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Wait, you mean somebody actually reads all that stuff? ;) It's been so long since I created it, I'll have to look up what files I changed. I'll send you something probably later today, though, once I figure it out. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I actually first read it when I still was doing ESO customer support, and was sitting at work bored... then we were talking about you in IRC or something and I remembered it. Now I just have to set up a computer in the motel room I'm currently living at so I can play some DII. >_> ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 05:56, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
You did ESO customer support? Aren't you special! were talking about me? Should I feel paranoid? :Þ Enjoy your game! I discovered in testing it that I've forgotten practically everything about D2. Ah well, it gave me over a decade of fun, it's probably time to move on. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 06:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Linkable Entry[edit]

The template no longer recognizes "exname=", breaking all LE entries that use it. I believe this has something to do with your edit to that template last September. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 00:11, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

That parameter should've been changed to an unnamed parameter anywhere it wasn't already. Perhaps there were some that I didn't pick up, or I meant to do a bot run on it and never did. I'll have a look at what uses exname and go from there. Thanks! Robin Hood  (talk) 01:26, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Turns out it was just that one page, so I've fixed it. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:35, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Job 269. Strange that OB:Unique Items shows up in a search for exname, it was taken out on 1st July. Four other pages show up in the search, two sandboxes, two talk pages. The bot changed 3 sandboxes at the time but not these two. Perhaps a more thorough scouring of the pages is in order the make sure they are all gone? Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 02:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
All the remaining entries are false hits except the one in Afwyn's sandbox. That one isn't picked up because of the structure of the template and it can be blanked at this point. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:19, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Some thoughts on the UESP wiki[edit]

I don't know quite where to write this little essay so I'm sending it to you. Please feel free to share it if you feel it would be helpful as I trust your judgment.

Well, I've been around a long time, and on this wiki a long time. I am not an editor nor even a significant contributor. I very much enjoy playing the game and the wiki serves me very well in doing that. So my thanks to the editors and significant contributors. My feeble efforts are merely my attempt to say thank you in a constructive and visible way. My self esteem does not rest on my contributions, they are merely an small expression of my gratitude. All this leads me to an observation. Over the years I have seen at least two editors, who were undeniably hard working and utterly lacking in tact, be deservedly removed. Their abrasiveness out weighed their contributions. I marveled at the patience of the administrative community, and I worried that perhaps others would despair of the controversy and stop their efforts. With that in mind, I would like to propose a feed back mechanism in which the average reader or contributor could send a kudo to an editor or administrator whose explanation or rationale for an action was both cogent and polite. It might work like this:

At the end of a responding post explaining what and why something was done the editor could voluntarily add a template {{understood | <agreed> | <disagreed> ] courteous}} to which any non-editor original poster could click and thereby credit the editor with a courteous applicable response or not. These would be counted toward an achievement/award that would be part of that editors page if he chose to do so. More importantly it might act as an impartial feed back much like Amazon or Ebay's user ratings of vendors. Consequently, instead of bragging about X thousand edits, one's kudos would count for tanigible evidence of constructive contributions. Just a thought.

Kalevala (talk) 06:57, 10 July 2015 (UTC)Kalevala

Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to do that without writing an extension rather than a simple template. Although it might be somewhat indicative of problems, I'm not sure it would be helpful in any event, as long-time editors could build up a lot of kudos for being helpful, but still end up needing to be blocked for inappropriate behaviour. We do currently have various prizes and warnings, though, which often serve the same purpose. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:33, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
On Wikipedia, a contributor can thank another for making a specific edit using a "Thanks" feature as mentioned here. However, I'd guess it would probably be difficult to implement since we don't have the Notifications feature that the Thanks thing is a part of. I'd agree that it would probably be simpler to stick with the prizes and such that we already use. However, I don't know the technical details, so I figured I'd mention it here in case it would somehow be easy to implement if desired. Forfeit (talk) 18:17, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I thought of that, though I think Kalevala was suggesting something that could capture both positive and negative feedback. If we're content with just the Thanks feature, it seems like a fairly straight-forward installation at first glance. It would represent a significant change in how we do things, though, so if we want to do that, it should definitely be brought up on the Community Portal first. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:25, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
You are right, it would be a new addition to the way things are done. But often times what is measured is what is treasured, so the thought was to change the culture somewhat by adding a metric to encourage courtesy and capture its use in a countable way. Thanks for the response. Kalevala 21:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Even Oddities[edit]

Hi Robin Hood, noticed the mod was removed from the user page but still at Nexus. Looks ok to me. Has it been superseded by anything?--Lmstearn (talk) 07:35, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh, Oops, it was under the "Mods I Use" section. But it was also a mod you created. :)--Lmstearn (talk) 10:58, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
It's in the "Mods I Created" section as well, it's just hidden by a Show/Hide because Oblivion's older now. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:01, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Question on Re-directs[edit]

Well here is what I did. I found that among the Orc strongholds only the Mor Khazgur cellar had no page and that the link on the main page of Mor Khazgur for the cellar just re-directed circularly to the main page. So I up-loaded pictures and wrote a descriptive place page which I then pasted over the re-direct. However, the re-direct on the main page of Mor Khazgur continues to re-direct circularly despite having its template code over written. So obviously what I thought would work is not the right way to get the cellar page integrated and the re-direct turned off. This may go to the cellar page I wrote or it may redirect to the main Mor Khazgur page: Mor Khazgur's cellar? Is this a browser cache problem or something else? Help!! Kalevala (talk) 13:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

It does not re-direct when I try. Can it be a cache problem? —MortenOSlash (talk) 15:43, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
It works properly for me as well, so I would agree that it's probably a cache problem. Try doing a hard refresh in your browser and see if that helps. Robin Hood  (talk) 16:43, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Today it works! Diagnosis, it was indeed the browser's cache. Sometimes you just need another pair of eyes. Thanks. Kalevala (talk) 00:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Help Needed Filling Out An NPC Summary From The CSList[edit]

Hello! I am working on a page section for Malkoran's Shade, and I wanted to know if there is a certain way I should take the data from the CSList. I wanted to make an info-box-thing like the one in the Queen Potema page, but I'm not at all experienced with creating these sorts of things. The areas I'm really having trouble with are figuring out what species it is, and what spells it uses. I saw on the Mentor page you're the template guy, so that's why I'm asking you. Thank you in advance! MetaCthulhu (talk) 00:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

For race, Malkoran's Shade is a Corrupted Shade. —Legoless (talk) 01:07, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Actually, it only looks like a Corrupted Shade. In terms of stats, it's actually a Dragon Priest. You can see both on the CSList page under Race and Creature Armor. For the template, you would list Dragon Priest just in plain text, but then you should probably mention the fact that it appears as a Corrupted Shade somewhere in the text.
The spells come from levelled spell lists, so I'd handle it the same way they did at Dragon Priest, by just saying something like "various Destruction spells" (or wording to that effect, depending what all spells there are). It doesn't appear to have any perks.
If you need anything else, just let me know. Robin Hood  (talk) 01:41, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
I have a preliminary version up now. It should be accurate, if not pretty. Thank you for your help, and I'll probably need more in the future. MetaCthulhu (talk) 13:31, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Yup, looks good! All the data checked out except for one mistake in the Dragon Priest page itself, which I've now corrected on both. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:19, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Oblivion: Claudius Arcadia Cell Door[edit]

Hey, RH! Today, I casted a frenzy spell on Arcadia, how is it the jailor can somehow "circumvent" the rules of gameplay and open a door which has no key in-game? I have a theory I cannot prove—some rules of gameplay don't apply to NPCs; only the player (i.e., it doesn't check whether the NPC is capable of opening a locked door; just activating it suffices). It know it might be impossible to get a valid explanation as to why, but I was just wondering if you knew. DRAGON GUARD(TALK) 18:36, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

We've seen that sort of thing in Oblivion before. It seems to be a bug in the game engine itself, as opposed to anything you'd find in the Construction Set. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:07, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Firstly, "NPCs don't play like players play" is what I can think of, seeing as how they can open a locked door without a key and have the food and drink animations. I suppose it can be considered a glitch; how would a character be able to open a door without the key? The same thing happens at the start of the game; even though none of the Blades or Uriel Septim carries a key to the cell, they can open it. If it is not considered a glitch, then the game must be programmed so that if the jailor wants to go into Arcadia's cell and goes to "activate" the door, it is scripted to open. In other words, if an NPC needs to get behind a locked door, it is scripted to open it if they "activate" it. At the start, I pickpocketed Glenroy through the door, was detected, and he opened it. DRAGON GUARD(TALK) 16:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Update—I casted a frenzy spell on Arcadia half an hour ago; he ran against the gate, although he didn't open it. DRAGON GUARD(TALK) 17:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
The one at the beginning of the game is unlocked via a script. The game obviously doesn't need to follow real-world physics in that regard, so because it's scripted that he should open the door, no actual key is needed. What you're experiencing with casting Frenzy seems to be an intermittent bug where actors can either open doors or teleport through them, even when they have no key. Usually, they'll teleport, but there may be some bug that allows them to open the locked doors too. In any event, you're correct that the rules that apply to the player don't always apply to NPCs. I think they tightened up those rules in Skyrim, which prevented bugs like the one you're talking about, but there's still probably a good number of rules that don't apply to them. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:12, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
The thing now is for us to decide whether it is a glitch or not. That may be a normal aspect of gameplay, although it could be that in the script, it says the jailor cannot open a locked door although he doesn't need the key to open a locked door. Maybe the script contradicts another script, and the result is that when an NPC has a compelling reason, such as an AI package (but in this case it's to kill an aggressive person) to get to a particular place, they will unlock the door. If I imagine it the other way around (i.e., an NPC in an inaccessible room, but with a "needs a key" door, who will flee if attacked). Imagine if you could get an iron arrow through a tiny window in the room's wall. I am almost certain that the NPC will run to the door, "unlock" it, and "flee for his life". Another theory is it could be a "failsafe" to ensure an NPC can get to a specific location if players pickpocket the key from them. Speaking of real-world physics, it would be good if games incorporated this feature, but it is difficult (much like a "realistic destruction" feature for GTA, where if a building was shot with an RPG, it would be damaged). That's what else I can think of. DRAGON GUARD(TALK) 18:39, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
I don't think there's any doubt it's a glitch. Surprisingly, I don't see it anywhere on the Oblivion glitch pages, though. If you can figure out exactly when they'll unlock doors they shouldn't be able to (fleeing, fighting, etc.), then we can add it. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:17, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

() In Bravil's chapel, Olava went through the average-locked door into the Chapel Hall. She went through but the door remained locked. I believe they will "unlock" doors due to pathfinding. The NPC likely sees that the shortest route is through the door, thus goes through it. Regarding NPCs unlocking doors when they shouldn't be, I don't believe this is technically a glitch. For some unknown reason but only applying for NPCs, the game engine probably cannot distinguish doors that are locked and doors that can just be opened. The mechanics of pathfinding probably precedence or something, I'm not sure. It may be that "it is harder to make NPCs behave like the player character", like how archers have superhuman-like accuracy, but in that case that's maybe because it is harder to make the NPC worse at aiming.

I remember a thing like this happening in a game I played a very long time ago (if I remember its name I'll let you know). I was in this building with a guy as a follower and my character made a slow jog (in the building sprinting is disabled) to around the other side of this door. The follower was only walking to catch up. Normally he only jogs/sprints when there is a large enough distance between the player character and him. As he hadn't moved very far, and I was on the other side of the locked door (there was an alternate route around it), he walked up to the door from the other side and unlocked it with the normal animation the player character uses, which is basically how a door is opened in real life. This door is not "inanimate" in the game, but is regarded as a door, meaning it can open, but is in a locked state where the player character couldn't perform the animation to open it. Not even interact with it to find it locked. I hope this information is very helpful, including with regards to whether it's a glitch or not. DRAGON GUARD(TALK) 20:50, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

I remember the game now—it's L.A. Noire. DRAGON GUARD(TALK) 19:14, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Assistance with the Miscellaneous Quests page[edit]

Hey Robin (told you I'd need more help), I was trying to help a new user (Sweet on Khajiit) edit the Miscellaneous Quests page, but the page appears to use some form of template. I'm afraid templates are still outside of my area of expertise, so I was wondering if you could come take a look and help us out. I can see that you're very busy right now, so if you can't get to us for awhile I understand. Thank you,

MetaCthulhu (talk) 22:50, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

I haven't read the entire discussion, though I will later when I have time. For now, though, I've worked around the problem. I replied to the discussion with a bit more info on what the issue was. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:29, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello Lord of Locksley. Thankyou for your assistance with this previously. Not sure if you've had an opportunity to read the discussion yet, but if you have I would love your input. Also if you have no objections, I would also love assistance with doing the reverse of what you did before as I believe I have done as much as I can in the sandbox and don't know how to get it back onto the real page. If you're not too busy that is. Thanks --Sweet on Khajiit (talk) 07:36, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
To be honest, I'd forgotten about the conversation, but I just had a look at it and I agree with what you've done. I think Hearthfire was the only remaining question, and yes, we generally include things like that in master lists of that sort, unless there's already a separate page. Copying the info back to the separate pages is, unfortunately, not as easy as copying it into your sandbox in the first place. I'll have a look at it shortly. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:00, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Okay, mostly done. I copied all the new stuff, now I just have to deal with the old pages that need to be deleted. I'll do that after dinner. If you (or anyone else reading this, really) have a moment, have a look at what I've done and make sure I didn't mess anything up. Robin Hood  (talk) 00:11, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
"You're someone who can get things done. I like that." Looks good to me. Thanks.--Sweet on Khajiit (talk) 02:10, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
LOL, nice! Robin Hood  (talk) 03:50, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Necro Bug Confirmation[edit]

Hi RH, just wanted to call your attention back to this discussion. I've been away for a year and just found your post on my talk page about this. I've replied to the original page now with what I can recall and some thoughts on it that have come to me over the past year. Hope it proves helpful. I'll be back much more frequently now. Minotaur (talk) 04:48, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Update: Sorry, don't fully understand the embedded links. Here's the URL that I meant above: Minotaur (talk) 04:55, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

No worries, I figured it out. :) I'll look into it tomorrow and see if there's anything I can figure out. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:59, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Template Request[edit]

Hey RH! I was trying to cobble together a basic shortcut template at {{Crown Link}} similar to something like {{TR3}}, but for the life of me I can't seem to figure it out. All it needs to do is link to ON:Crown Store/all#1, where 1 is the parameter (and the name of a {{LE}} anchor on the page). A secondary param for optional display text would also be great. It's not urgent by any means but I was hoping it'd be simple enough to throw together relatively easily. —Legoless (talk) 21:18, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Created. Have a look, and if it's working the way you think it should, let me know and then I'll add the docs to it. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:06, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, works perfectly! I tried my hand at the docs, and I'll be taking it to the CP if you wanna join in. —Legoless (talk) 22:32, 28 December 2015 (UTC)