User talk:Dwarfmp

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Jan-May 2011
May-Aug 2011

Aureal Note[edit]

Thought you might want to have a say in this discussion, since I've removed that re-worded note you added to the Aureal page. —Legoless (talk) 20:53, 1 January 2015 (GMT)


Thanks for tackling all the deletions. Only one problem: that was supposed to be my project for today. Now what am I gonna do? :Þ Robin Hood  (talk) 20:39, 6 January 2015 (GMT)

Coincidence. Just came up with looking at the category to see if maintenance is up to par. It wasn't. Especially the proposed ones, because you proposed them, they went months back! I thought Jeancey was our maintenance guy ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 21:02, 6 January 2015 (GMT)


Well a silt strider isn't capitalised under normal circumstances (maybe if someone named a silt strider after its species name) but why would someone want to name the silt strider that? Anyways, coming off digressing—I get your point in removing the sic tag—it makes the page look horrible because there would be so many sic tags on pages if this was the case? Is this your opinion on these types of things? I think we can only go by the FACTS and not your personal preferences which are opinions. Since personal opinions don't fit the bill for policies, maybe we ought to say, have a consensus on the CP, and if the community countenances the decision, we can then have a bot add all the sic tags. Since this is essentially breaking the basic rules of grammar, I would fully support the decision if I started it. What do you think? Dragon Guard  (talk) 19:52, 14 January 2015 (GMT)

Pardon my butting in Dwarf, but sic tags are for misspellings that are in the games, not something like capitalization. That's not a personal preference at all. There's really no need to bring this up on the CP because I can guarantee you that it will be an almost unanimous no to including sic tags on petty "errors" such as capitalization. As for the rest of your post, I'm really not following what you're trying to say. What facts? •WoahBro►talk 20:48, 14 January 2015 (GMT)
I think what DG meant is that it's a fact that capitalizing "Silt Strider" goes against English grammar rules. However, in the very same edit, DG himself goes against English grammar rules by lower-casing "latest rumors", presumably to follow the in-game capitalization, whereas title case would be the more normal usage. As WoahBro says, however, I don't see a CP discussion being useful here. This is such a minor issue, and we've always followed in-game capitalization without marking them as incorrect. Capitalizing species names is understandable, if often incorrect, since we often do very bizarre things in English (compare, for example, "the French" with "french fries"). The rules are quite convoluted as to when we should or shouldn't, and game-makers' grammar is rarely perfect. While technically incorrect, it could be taken as a stylistic choice, much like someone lower-casing their name (e.g., "k.d. lang"). It would be a different issue if, for example, they capitalized a word that had no reason to be capitalized at all (e.g., "The quick brown fox Jumped over the lazy dog"). Save {{Sic}} tags for misspellings, duplicate/missing words, and other places where the sentence fails to make sense as written. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:31, 14 January 2015 (GMT)
(edit conflict) You're more than welcome to butt in, WoahBro. Well one, if there was a sentence saying...I don't know... Um, "The Ash Guardians can be effected by flame spells" or "The Cheetah jumped over the Whale" would they be worthy of a sic tag? After all it is a grammatical error. By the "facts" part, this means that based on his personal preference, in other words opinions, this wouldn't be enough to change a page without a form of consensus because others might not be happy with whatever a personal preference it could be. The facts part was that when a consensus has been reached the page may be potentially changed depending on circumstances. The fact is the ending consensus decision. Those are the facts. Are you getting the picture now? Dragon Guard  (talk) 21:44, 14 January 2015 (GMT)
Your butting in is appreciated, really ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 21:45, 14 January 2015 (GMT)
I was lower casing latest rumors because copying verbatim is compulsory. Those aren't my words; they're the developers' words. Dragon Guard  (talk) 21:48, 14 January 2015 (GMT)

() ^And that is exactly why the sic tags you added were removed. Does that make any more sense? •WoahBro►talk 22:54, 14 January 2015 (GMT)

What would happen if they capitalised a word that didn't need to be capitalised at all? Would we leave them alone or put a sic tag on them? Also what gives with the "^" at the start? Dragon Guard  (talk) 17:07, 15 January 2015 (GMT)
As I said earlier (search for "The quick brown fox"), yes, in that case, we would. The ^ is commonly used in forums to mean "I agree completely with what the person above me said" or "in reference to what the person above me said". Robin Hood  (talk) 17:36, 15 January 2015 (GMT)
By "yes" do you mean leave them alone or put a sic tag on it? For example, "Three Gods, One True Faith." is an "idle" dialogue line said by Ordinators. Is this worthy of a sic tag? And, what if a letter was capitalised for NO REASON AT ALL in the middle of a word (i.e., OrdinAtor)? This worthy of a sic tag as well? Dragon Guard  (talk) 17:16, 21 January 2015 (GMT)
A letter capitalized for no good reason would definitely get a sic tag. Your first example, though, is more debatable. You could argue that it was intentional, either to convey that the person is emphasizing their words slightly, but not shouting, or that "Three Gods" and "One True Faith" are both titles in their own right. Because of that uncertainty, I would argue against putting a sic tag on it. Robin Hood  (talk) 18:23, 21 January 2015 (GMT)
I see. So you think it's best to leave the Ordinator line alone because the dialogue might be capitalised because it's most likely to do with their beliefs in their God — Vivec? And putting sic tags would basically be guessing? And when I finish bartering with merchants and they say, "Thank you, Please Come Again." does this deserve a sic tag? Just checking. Dragon Guard  (talk) 19:28, 21 January 2015 (GMT)
That one's a tougher call. I suppose it depends a bit on just how much Morrowind misused capitals like that. It's probably not useful to put sic tags on half the dialogue if it's really common, but if this is an unusual case, then yes, I'd say you could use a sic tag there. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2015 (GMT)
Well, it may be; it could be worthy of a sic tag, it might not. Maybe we should wait someone who is very familiar with the game to drop by and give their views? If it were me adding the dialogue I would include a sic tag. On another note, help me out — you should see the message I said ToR on my talk page. I think an admin needs to interject here. I speak the truth. Dragon Guard  (talk) 21:00, 21 January 2015 (GMT)

() On the topic of the sic tag, I agree, I'd like a second opinion. As for ToR, let's give him time to see your message and make any corrections he may need to. It could well be that he had a specific edit in mind and just linked to the wrong message. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:07, 21 January 2015 (GMT)

Usually I would agree with adding the sic tag to random capitalisation, but some phrases are often capitalised in English ("Thank You" comes to mind), so maybe it's not outright incorrect re: the bartering dialogue. —Legoless (talk) 21:16, 21 January 2015 (GMT)
As with ToR—Yes, it may be just that he made a mistake...I don't know how he will respond to the message. I'd say giving him a block for accusing me of things I didn't do might be a bit excessive. And a warning? Maybe not. I can't believe how no-one saw that and pointed it out... ;). I just...never mind — I'm ending it here — just in case I demonstrate bad etiquette and get reminded again. Dragon Guard  (talk) 21:20, 21 January 2015 (GMT)
Legoless, are you saying you don't want the line, "Thank you, Please Come Again." to be given a sic tag? Based on your post, I believe that's what you're trying to say - just checking. Dragon Guard  (talk) 21:17, 22 January 2015 (GMT)
Sorry if I'm needlessly prolonging the discussion, but Legoless hasn't gotten back to me. Why I'm suddenly replying is because when loading up Fallout: New Vegas I noticed in one of the introduction's loading screens leading to the main menu, it said, "All Rights Reserved." I didn't know whether you are opposing the sic tag, or supporting it. You sound like you are in-the-middle (i.e., no strong feelings) here, but I could be wrong. Dragon Guard  (talk) 13:46, 20 February 2015 (GMT)
Necroposting isn't really an issue on user talk pages, since the rules are different. If he isn't replying almost a month later, you should assume that he has no interest in doing so. Zul do onikaanLaan tinvaak 14:56, 20 February 2015 (GMT)

() Okay then, it seems Legoless doesn't have any strong feelings either way (forgive me if I'm wrong)? So—Thuum—and Dwarfmp—am I to gather that a third opinion isn't needed? I would like a third, what I would call a "stronger" opinion. I thought you might not want that? Dragon Guard  (talk) 21:05, 21 February 2015 (GMT)

Capitalization in the games is mostly intentional, and rarely seems out of place. If I were you, I would just stay clear of adding sic tags, that would be the safest option ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 00:47, 22 February 2015 (GMT)
Yes, I think you're right. Still no idea why "Please Come Again" is capitalised though.... Dragon Guard  (talk) 08:58, 22 February 2015 (GMT)

Jeancey semi-active?[edit]

If it's Jeancey's job to change his status...? Then I think this concerns all administrators as well as this could just invite others to follow this principle. If admins aren't active, they can't change their status to semi-active, inactive et cetera now can they? It could confuse people into thinking they are active couldn't it? What do you think? Dragon Guard  (talk) 13:06, 18 January 2015 (GMT)

Please refrain from updating the active administrators list to your whims. This page should only be edited by administrators, or perhaps patrollers, to move inactive admins to the inactive section (normal users cannot access the patrol log in order to indicate whether the admin in question is active). Admins can decide themselves whether they're active or semi, that's their, and only their, choice ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 13:20, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Yes.. Do you think Jeancey is semi-active or will you give it a little more time and see whether he starts getting back to being active again? Dragon Guard  (talk) 14:23, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Let me rephrase: Jeancey can decide himself whether he's active or semi, that's his, and only his, choice. I also suggest you stop urging to get him on semi-active, I'd find it rather insulting in his place, given the fact his activity is not particularly lacking (perhaps only compared to his own usual activity) ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 16:18, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Oh...Right... Now I know.. Dragon Guard  (talk) 17:33, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
I'm still on, I frequent IRC, I check RC every day, I make edits. I haven't had time lately to play ESO, so I haven't been able to do large numbers of edits recently.... Jeancey (talk) 21:52, 18 January 2015 (GMT)
Fine. Whatever. This now seems to have gotten to a more than minor discussion Dwarfmp.
And Jeancey: you'll be happy to know I helped out the pages: Edwinna Elbert, Eydis Fire-Eye, and others! I've been like the most active user on the site since the turn of the year haven't I? Dragon Guard  (talk) 16:25, 19 January 2015 (GMT)
Well, maybe not the number one active user, but one of the most active users anyways. Dragon Guard  (talk) 17:13, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

Thank you[edit]

Thanks for putting better images in Skyrim:Unarmed Combat. Those ones are definitely better quality ... I need a few lessons on this area it seems. :P --GodRaineTalk 15:23, 20 January 2015 (GMT)

And here I was thinking you'd be mad for prodding your images. You can always go to the Image Requests page when you want an image for something ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 20:04, 20 January 2015 (GMT)

Online:Meat, Mimics & More‎[edit]

Hey Dwarfmp! This page has a typo in the name. There is no such spelling in the game anywhere, hence the deletion request. An alternative spelling has been accounted for. For more details please see talk page. ~ Shuryard (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2015 (GMT)

A name doesn't have to exist in-game in order to be a redirect, and I wouldn't know why there can only be one alternative spelling. In any case, seeing as it's a combination of both in-game names, I thought it warranted a redirect ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 20:55, 5 February 2015 (GMT)
Fair enough. ~ Shuryard (talk) 20:56, 5 February 2015 (GMT)


Just in regards to this, a stub is a basic page with very minimal content. A page can very well be incomplete without being a stub. Removing those tags is important in the Skyrim namespace in particular, since they were added en masse by bots, so keeping fully-fleshed articles like Runil in the stub category renders it quite useless. —Legoless (talk) 13:53, 6 February 2015 (GMT)

Yet we've been using those as indicators they're not yet complete, because there's no project. At least that's what I had understood ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 14:20, 6 February 2015 (GMT)
That doesn't seem right to me. Was there a discussion on this? The {{incomplete}} tag should be used for that. —Legoless (talk) 14:32, 6 February 2015 (GMT)
Well I don't know of any actual discussions. I sort of asked around, must've been on the chat or so. I remember saying the incomplete tag was to be avoided or something along that line, but it doesn't really matter now, there has been no clear discussion on it as far as I know. In any case, I was thinking about how an NPC redesign project would be good. I can't remember why this hasn't happened yet ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 14:42, 6 February 2015 (GMT)
Some kind of Skyrim-specific project tag would definitely be a good idea, even if it's just a hidden checklist for categorisation purposes. I think it was originally decided that quest and place pages required more attention, but that was based on the premise of the insane workload involved with the OBNPCRP. —Legoless (talk) 14:51, 6 February 2015 (GMT)

Adding unused images to fitting articles[edit]

I hope it's fine that I'm adding unused images to fitting articles even though they are still stubs? For example, I have added your Story images to Fastred and Jofthor. The images might look a little forlorn without the accompanying text, but I think they are much more helpful on the article pages than in UnusedFiles. Editors who are planning to extend the stub know at a glance that good story images already exist, and the images will give them a hint which events/conversations still need to be described in the article. --Holomay (talk) 09:49, 14 February 2015 (GMT)

Yes that's probably best. I went ahead and took those while I was there when I was going for other shots that were needed. There's no particular reason they were kept unused ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 10:17, 14 February 2015 (GMT)


I noticed that you've taken on somewhat of a personal vendetta against shorthand namespace linking. :P I'd just like to try to defend the practice in certain situations such as here. On that page, the SR shortcut was used exclusively inside templates. This really improves the readability of the markup in my opinion, especially in cases where the template has been smushed onto a single line like it was with {{Quest Footer}}. OCD standardisation aside, I think sometimes it may be best to leave the shortened links be in cases like that. It will also likely be a never-ending mission, seeing as I myself have been leaving a massive trail of ON: links recently. I think there was a discussion before about using non-standard links, where it was decided that the initials were fine, but templated links like {{OB}} get periodically switched over by bot. This was because calling upon a template was seen as an inferior method of linking, although this precedent has seemingly went out the window recently with the prevalence of the delightful {{Lore Link}}. —Legoless (talk) 19:51, 7 March 2015 (GMT)

Lore link has the advantage of linking to different namespaces under different conditions, so that one makes sense to be templated, where the other namespace templates just slow down parsing of the page (if only by a minuscule amount). The namespace shortcuts, however, would produce an absolutely negligible difference in parsing time. The only advantage of using a single namespace name rather than using the alternates is that it makes it easier for the bot to deal with. Figuring out alternates is very difficult for the current version of HnB. HnB 2.0 should have no problems at all dealing with the namespace shortcuts, but we're probably about a year away from me starting to use it. Of course, humans might have similar issues as well, since they might think to look for Skyrim, but not SR when updating links. Just some food for thought. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:13, 7 March 2015 (GMT)
It's true, I have a personal vendetta against them. Ever since I was told not to use the short versions, I have developed a growing... abhorrence (correct usage?) for them, somewhat of a fierce loyalty to rules. Of course, the wiki ways change over time, though I keep holding onto old rules, and I don't like changes. It's confusing when one person says something and another says something else. I'd like some clear rules, but so many aspects of the wiki lack them. I've had plenty of times when I thought of starting a CP discussion to get standardized practices and root out others, but what kept me from doing that is the fear of being "that guy" who keeps starting discussions of what some would call trivial issues (such as this linking), because that can be annoying, and perhaps even disrupting.
From what I understand, the short link versions originated to reduce page size. I was told not to use them, I think for consistency on articles. I once edited a large page with lists of leveled items, to replace the short versions, resulting in a massive page size increase, which explained their existence. In any case, I'm not sure what you're saying Robin Hood. Are my actions justified? Or am I enforcing dead and pointless rules? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 11:52, 8 March 2015 (GMT)
I'm just saying that from the wiki's point of view, there's no significant difference whether you use the shortcut or the full version. It's no different than the Image vs. File namespace in that sense. From an editor's/bot's POV, there may be good reason to use the full name. That, as you say, is a matter of opinion and consistency. The namespace templates, on the other hand, should generally be converted over to links, since they require a lot more effort by the wiki with absolutely no gain over using a link. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:56, 8 March 2015 (GMT)
To me personally, shortened links on regular pages look inconsistent and untidy. The only pages on which I tolerate and do use them are pages with tables (e.g., Online:Guild Traders).   ~ Shuryard (talk) 00:49, 9 March 2015 (GMT)


Looking at your userpage, I noted at how well kept and tidy it looked. Since I'm new here and my user page, (particularly my userboxes), looks very messy, and bunged full of askew info, (a disappointment to my Gentleman Mudcrab Kingdom indeed) I decided to ask you how you made your userboxes so neat and tidy? Any tips on tidying it up? I'm just a newbie with a few million gentlemen mudcrabs who have no formatting skill whatsoever, and mostly spend their time grooming their beautiful twizzled french moustaches and polishing their top hats. Anyway any help whatsoever would be appreciated greatly, and would earn a high ranking place in the Great Court of Gentleman Mudcrabs, and an exotic, Gentleman Mudcrab servant to carry out your every last need. You seem like an experienced wiki-er ideal for the job. Yours Crabbily --Dave the nord (talk) 10:19, 4 April 2015 (GMT)

I used tables. The hidden kind in particular. You can always push the edit button on a page to check out the build in detail. I'd recommend to copy and paste, and then implement your own data to make it easy on yourself and save time ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 13:13, 4 April 2015 (GMT)
Thank you kindly for your help. Since I'm new here I need all the help I can get, so iI appreciate you sparing a moment of your time for me and my Gentlemen Mudcrabs. I name thee Baron Dawrfmp, :Wikiogre and leader of the Gentleman Mudcrabs of Ireland. Bear this title with honour, Baron.--Dave the nord (talk) 14:57, 4 April 2015 (GMT)

Atronach Forge[edit]

The summoned dremora would appear to come from the list, AtrFrgSigilStoneResultList (0x0010f740), which lists a leveled melee dremora. Of course it refuses to be easy by being a template within a template. Hope I helped. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 02:14, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Ah yes, very good. I couldn't find that NPC as I was looking under the dremora race actors, but it doesn't show up there. I'll edit the forge page to reflect this, thank you ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 02:22, 17 March 2017 (UTC)


I restored this deletion of yours, if you wanna have a look. —Legoless (talk) 17:07, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

getting started[edit]

thank you for sending me a message about adding screencaps to the site.
it took three notifications for me to click enough right things to find it.
i hope that this is how i'm meant to ask you questions, new section sounds like a big deal.
i have been reopening the link you sent about image standards every time i upload,
was there something specific on that page that is wrong with my screencaps?
longpinkytoes 02:45, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

also pages ask that the template be removed
but there's no edit button for the template
though Ancient Technology and Troll don't have them now ;)
longpinkytoes 03:03, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
You uploaded images that neither had the right aspect ratio, nor had the right name. A template can be removed by editing the page itself, you should see a {{cleanimage}} tag on the top of the page which can simply be deleted. ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 01:35, 21 July 2017 (UTC)


Choco chip cookie.png
You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

I've been admiring your Creation Club edits for a while now, but your work on Skyrim:Zombie is phenomenal! Well done. —Legoless (talk) 22:21, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
I thought so, exactly, cookie well-deserved, took a long time, indeed, yeah, totally! ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 22:32, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Neutral Voting[edit]

Hey Dwarf, I undid your removal of a Neutral vote on one of the current Featured Image nominations. As illustrated by this archive of past FI nominations (which has 35 instances of the word on the page), Neutral voting is perfectly valid and is equivalent to leaving a comment on the nomination. Maybe the comment in question had little of substance, but all registered editors are allowed to participate in voting. —Legoless (talk) 23:02, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Neutral is a "legitimate" non-vote, but Dwarf removed it for being "absolutely pointless" and I agree with that assessment. However, the page itself only lists Support and Oppose as actual votes, and other contributions that are acceptable are Comment and Question. Every single Neutral vote in the archive is an actual comment. Those "votes" are allowed so that they might swing other voters one way or another. To make a non-vote with a comment of no substance is a complete and utter waste of space, time, and effort for both the poster and readers of such contributions, and should in the very least be discouraged on matters where votes count for something. If a user does not wish to vote they should make a comment, you can't both not vote and not comment. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:41, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
That's what I felt, a "neutral" vote should at least have something to add to the discussion. In this case it contributed nothing of value, the only thing such a vote could do is draw attention to a nomination, but it's already clear where that one's going, hence my removal of it. Regarding the use of "neutral votes", I was thinking the same thing, it being just a reworded comment. So yes basically, you might as well just do what everyone else does and simply not vote/comment on it. I'm not going to argue over whether it should go or anything, but as long as you know my reasoning behind it. ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 04:32, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Sorry fellas didn't mean to cause this. Genuinely thought neutral votes were thing (i.e if there were 4 supports, 2 neutrals, and 3 opposes it would be counted as 4-2-3), could've sworn I'd seen some before but I guess not. I'd agree that my comment on the vote didn't add much of substance, but that was because I didn't have much to add further (given that there were already lengthy comments to the preceding oppose votes that voiced many of the points I'd already thought of) and I didn't want to leave a blank vote with no comment attached, was just on-the-fence about what to think about the photo. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 04:46, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
No need to apologize for the situation. You have a point on influencing the consensus with neutral votes, but I think it's safe to say it won't in this case. Also, no offence on removing it, I see why you made it considering the consensus, but I hope you understand our reasoning, I think so though ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 04:56, 28 March 2018 (UTC)