UESPWiki:Podcast/2 16

Argonians - Great race or GREATEST RACE? Welcome to the UESPodcast! Join your host Pylawn with guests baratron and Lost as we discuss the latest news and dig deep into the lore of the Argonians.

Twitch: VOD • Youtube: VOD • Anchor: Audio

Show Notes

Roster

Host:

• Pylawn

Guests:

• Lost
• baratron

News

UESP:

• • Patreon now allows year memberships
  • Patron chests are being formed now!
    • Lots of really cool gear coming your way!
  • We had an awesome giveaway!
  • Patreon boxes are underway!

ESO:

• Q4 Story DLC - Markarth announced
  • Information stream on SATURDAY Sept 19 3pm EDT. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58759
  • We will be live-tweeting it as usual!
  • Everyone who watches live with a linked Twitch account will get a free Purple Torchbug pet (to be delivered by Monday, September 21).
  • Name changed from Darkstorm
    • “Because they liked it more”
• The Imperial City event ends on Tuesday, September 15 at 2pm GMT / 10AM EDT. If you’re listening to the show live, you still have time to get 6 more Event Tickets, 3 tonight and 3 in the morning.
• https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1301522920704020485?s=20
  • Confirmed no Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild DLC Events this year.
• Crown Store
  • The Dark Shaman costume will return to the Crown Store on all platforms for a limited time, from September 17 to September 21 at 10am EDT. Previously this has been sold at 1200 Crowns or 960 Crowns for ESO Plus members.

Legends:

• Prior prior, Grand Melee, premium alt art Baandari Opportunist
• Prior week, Ulfric Stormcloak’s Gauntlet, all cards 5 magicka or less, full collection unlocked.
• Legends held the Arsenal Gauntlet: left lane Armory (+1/+1 to a random creature when a creature is summoned there), right lane Barracks (draw a card when summoning a creature with 4 or more power), awarded a premium alt art Eastmarch Crusader

Call to Arms:

• Adventurer Allies and Followers are both shipping now, PDFs of the cards available with purchase prior to the release of the Chapter 1 Card Pack

Supporters

Patreon:

• Josh Hale
• Zerolott
• Ido

Twitch Subs:

• Gerwulf Gifts!

iTunes:

Wiki:

Scholarly Pursuits

I will ask our guests what they have been working on in the world of TES! This can be game play, wiki work, discord things, anything relevant to UESP/TES that you’ve been working on the past couple weeks / when you were last on the show.

• Pylawn
  • LOTS
  • Took a vacation
  • Been doing a ton of ESO, Blades, Legends, Morrowind, AND Skyrim
  • Leveling a new Warden Wood Elf
    • Made it to 35 so far
  • Doing IC event stuff has been fun but reinforcing how bad I am at PvP
  • Lots of fun behind the scenes stream stuff
• baratron
  • In-game funeral for @Gankimus, former GM of Dominion Imperial Guard.
  • Followed by Cyrodiil PvP. Forgot how much I enjoy the big organised Alliance War groups. Was very unwell with chronic fatigue for the rest of the weekend though.
  • We ran Veteran Asylum +1 and I did behind-the-Tank healing for the first time! It was difficult but a lot of fun and I felt like I learned a lot. We didn’t complete because the instance was starting to bug out and several people had sore hands, but we made it to 4%, so we know that we definitely can do it.
  • Haven’t had any spare time to play on PC-EU lately, a bit sad about that.
• Lost
  • Got one copy of the new Eastmarch Crusader
  • Bit of a TES Hiatus otherwise

Topic: Argonians - Great Race, or GREATEST RACE?

Brief Description

• Argonians (Saxhleel, or People of the Root in their native language of Jel) are the reptilian natives of Black Marsh, a vast swampland province in southeastern Tamriel.
• The other races often refer to them as "lizards" or the "Lizard Folk" instead, especially when meaning to be derogatory.
• They are known as the foremost experts in guerrilla warfare throughout Tamriel, a reputation brought upon them by defending their borders from enemies for countless centuries.
• Argonians have a lifespan similar to that of humans.
• According to the First Era Scholar Brendan the Persistent, "[t]he Argonian people have, throughout Tamrielic history, been perhaps the most misunderstood, vilified, and reviled of all the sentient races. Yet, those who have taken the time to experience Argonian culture have gained a greater appreciation for this noble and beautiful people." However, it should be noted that he himself went missing in his final expedition into the deeper swamps of their homeland.
• https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian
• Just like how Khajiit have different forms (based on the moon phase when they are born), there are different types of Argonians. An Argonian’s appearance and physiology is almost solely determined by their Hist.
  • Some Argonians grow horns or feathers.
  • Argonians of the same tribe have the same scale colours and overall body shape.
    • The Bright-Throats have brightly colored scales of many hues.
    • The Naga-Kur, have dark, sometimes iridescent, scales and red eyes. They are also Naga, a subspecies of Argonian with elongated heads and large mouths.
  • Known to be linked to the Hist because Argonians will always display the characteristics of the tribe that they were born into. e.g. the Ghost People tribe, or Veeshkleel. They cannot have children of their own, but by stealing eggs and hatching them under their own Hist Tree, all Veeshkleel display the same traits.
    • Veeshkleel have pale, sickly-looking scales.

Native Province - Q:

• Black Marsh
• Southeastern Tamriel, bordering Cyrodiil and Morrowind.
• Swampy jungle, full of poisonous plants and deadly animals (so wet Australia)
• Inhospitable to other races.
  • The human Kothringi and fox-like Lilmothiit were both extinct by the 2nd Era.
  • A race called the Orma apparently existed during the 1st Era - human-like but eyeless. Mentioned in 2920, The Last Year of the First Era.
• Regions include Shadowfen, Murkmire, and Thornmarsh.
• Cities include Archon, Blackrose, Gideon, Helstrom, Lilmoth, Soulrest, Stormhold, and Thorn.

Creation - Q: So where do the Argonians come from?

• The Argonian allegory known as the Parable of Becoming states that the Hist are much more than trees, but a source of great wisdom. However, they are unable to move, which is sometimes inconvenient. The Hist saw the humanoid forms of Men and Mer, able to walk and use their hands, and decided this was useful. So they molded the form of the swamp’s lizards after them to create Argonians.
  • Some scholars believe that the original lizard was the Helstrom Ancestor Lizard.
  • In the novels, Mere-Glim has a ‘vision’ of sorts of being a lizard resting in the swamp with basic instincts, but ‘elevating’ when the root is introduced (though this may well be metaphor).
  • Similarly, theories exist that state that the Hist also mimicked the forms of the mounts of both Men and Mer, creating Lizard-Steeds for the purpose of being used by Argonians to ride long distances. Lore:Scaly Steeds of Black Marsh
• Some tribes have additional creation myths, e.g. the Adzi-Kostleel tribe of Argonians believe that the world was created in a struggle between the spirit Atak, the Great Root and Kota, who had been born from the Nothing and hungered. Lore:Children of the Root.

Culture - Q: What is Argonian Society Like?

• Interesting change from building large ziggurats (xanmeers) to mud huts and wooden settlements.
  • Modern Argonians find stone structures to be a waste since nothing lasts forever. Their architecture is based on the concept of conquering Shunatei, 'the pain caused by holding on too tightly to that which has come to pass', also described as the 'Fear of Death and Forgetting'. Argonians feel that building stone structures in the belief that they will endure the centuries is foolish, and point to the countless other ruins that dot other provinces as proof of the inevitability of their destruction. Because of this, they instead build structures that are intended to be temporary.
• Tribal, focused on change, accepting it, flowing with the river.
• Lore:Tribes of Murkmire mentions an ‘enforced forgetfulness’, gives an example of two tribes playing a sport together, even though earlier that day, one of the raiders had been killed in a clash. “We are all people of the root”.

Religion - Q:

• They do not have "religion" as it is known elsewhere in Tamriel. They venerate Hist trees but do not have prayers, priests, or temples.
• They do however have rituals. “like most of our people, I do not 'worship' entities of a so-called divine nature, and don't understand the feelings and behavior of those who do. [...] We have rituals, of course, for rituals are the mud that holds together the house of society, but we do not 'pray to' the Hist, because our thoughts and desires flow together. The Hist is the river, and we Saxhleel are the standing waves where the river flows over rocks. That is clear, is it not?" [from Lore:Heita-Meen Answers Your Questions].
• Argonians also venerate Sithis, the primordial Shadow/Chaos that existed before the gods were born. Unlike most citizens of Tamriel, they do not regard Sithis as "evil." Lore:Varieties of Faith: The Argonians
• Argonians have Dreamwalkers who can enter the Dreamstride like the Monks of Vaermina in Skyrim, e.g. Stormy-Eyes in the Eastmarch zone story (ESO).
• This was expanded on in Murkmire where it was named the dream-wallow.
  • The dream-wallow is said to be between the lines of a vision and reality, and is capable of manifesting objects into the physical world.
  • Entering the dream-wallow involves a period of isolation and exposure to potent mind-altering herbs.
  • The Bright-Throat tribe enter the dream-wallow by ingesting deep sap, hist sap collected from deep within the ground.
  • The Naga-Kur inhale burning Starblossoms.

Connection to The Hist:

• The Hist: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hist
• Every Argonian in a tribe is linked with its Hist tree.
• Argonian tribal positions are related to the Hist.
  • Tree-minders tend to the tribe's Hist and seek its wisdom through communication with the tree. Tree-minders can feel when something is wrong with their tree, such as it being attacked by beetles. If the tree senses an issue with members of the tribe, the tree-minder will feel it and must interpret the Hist's will.
  • Sap-speakers are direct intermediaries with the Hist. They spend days or weeks at a time among the roots and canopy of the Hist; ingesting sap, eating the otherwise forbidden fruit of the tree, and using many hours of the day to indulge in solitary contemplation. The sap-speaker emerges from their solitude with the knowledge they've acquired from the Hist during their long bouts of study.
  • Root-heralds work to protect their tribe's interests. While some tribesmen hunt for wamasu, the root-herald hunts for information and fruitful relationships.
  • Grave-singers care for the bodies of the fallen and deal with death. They pin the corpse to the ground with a xul-vaat, or grave-stake, so it doesn't rise as an undead bog blight. The deceased's story is carved upon their stake. The grave-singer is tasked with reading their tribe's stakes, and when someone dies, they sing the fallen one's final song.
• Licking Hist Sap enables the Hist tree to communicate with an Argonian.
  • Hist sap has strong hallucinogenic properties for non-Argonians.
  • Ingesting large quantities of Hist sap isn’t even safe for Argonians. Sap-Speakers routinely suffer the effects of sap-poisoning, including "gold tongue" (permanent change of mouth pigmentation to a golden hue), unbidden hallucinations, and "bark-scale" (thickening and darkening of surface scales). [Lore:Tribes of Murkmire]
  • “Most Hist speak without words. In Bright-Throat Village, the Hist speaks through chime music." [Dialogue of Xukas]
  • Other Hist trees communicate through visions.
• If the Hist tree becomes diseased, it will cause all of the Argonians who hear it to become insane, e.g. in the dungeon Ruins of Mazzatun.
• Argonians born away from the Hist have no connection with it and cannot hear it. They are referred to as lukiul and are considered disadvantaged in Argonian society. Without a connection to the Hist, an Argonian is “unable to read social clues, the subtle movements of muscle and tail that most of us take for granted.”
  • Examples of lukiul Argonians are Ja-Reet, born on Vvardenfell, and Kassandra, born in Cyrodiil.
  • Lore: The Strange Case of Ja-Reet
  • Kassandra’s dialogue: Argonians share a special relationship with their Hist. They hear its will, taste its decrees …."

"They?" Don't you mean "we?" You're an Argonian, too.

"Yes. Well. That's just it. I can't hear the Hist."

What do you mean?

"When I place my hands on the Hist's bark or rest in the shadow of its boughs, I hear nothing. No whispers. No faint smells or soothing tones. Just silence. Deafening silence."

• Killing a Hist tree causes the formation of a Mnemic Egg. [Though this didn’t happen for the Hist Tree in Haj Uxith, if you choose to allow the tree there to die… perhaps being in Coldharbour prevents normal functioning.]
  • This is the size of a mortal, containing the memories and wisdom of the Hist and its Argonians.
  • The Hist share a collective consciousness; they have the ability to communicate with one another, and to feel what another Hist is feeling. Therefore the Mnemic Egg can be used as a gateway into the collective consciousness of all Hist Trees. In the wrong hands, a Mnemic Egg could be used to sever the Argonian connection to the Hist.

Skipping for timeLanguage

• Jel
  • Jel completely lacks tenses. Argonians believe that time is an illusion established to create a linear version of events, which is a limited way of perceiving reality.
    • "You humans often depict time as a series of events, as a story or narrative. This seems to us a strangely narrow way to look at it, skewing your thinking into curiously flawed patterns of repetition. We do not see time as a line from past to future, but rather like the broad wave that sweeps across the sand as the tide comes in, or like the line of storms that crosses the marsh during the monsoons.” [Lore:Heita-Meen Answers Your Questions].
  • Jel is unique among the Tamrielic races by being unrelated to ancient Ehlnofex.
  • Some Jel words and phrases have made it into the common tongue, for example:
    • Haj mota (Hidden hunter) - large creatures with a shell, look a bit like tortoises but they move very quickly once inside their shell!
    • Wamasu (Big-mouthed lizard of blood lightning) - giant electric crocodile-like creatures.
  • Kaoc is a Jel swear word, though we are not sure of its exact translation.
  • (I am not going to attempt to pronounce Thtithil live on air -- baratron).
  • Argonians typically use body language as part of their communication, which is why Argonians speaking Tamrielic will often preface their statements with a description such as "I extend the claw of welcome” or "I erect the spine of [something]".

History:

• An era of stone structures, now long abandoned and forgotten to the swamp.
• Ancient Argonians viewed Sithis as a destroyer and feared its destructive force. They were said to be 'less mindful of the cycle of change' and saw only the Void. As a representation of this ideology, they built vast stone pyramids to withstand the destruction.
• Duskfall is the name given to the slow decline of the old Saxhleel civilization. Not exactly clear what it was.
• Argonian culture went through a paradigm shift. Having previously viewed Sithis as a destructive force and living in fear of it, Argonians now started to recognize Sithis not only as destruction, but also change.
  • “Sithis is not only destruction. Sithis is change. Sithis tears down the old so that the new can grow. So we learned to flow with the river, instead of struggle to alter its course.” [dialogue of Nisswo Xode]
• After that, due to their lack of focus on history, not many details.
• We will have to address the whole slavery by the Dunmer thing. Good luck!
• When Mehrunes Dagon attempted to invade Tamriel during the Oblivion Crisis in 3E 433, the Hist trees foresaw his coming and called the majority of Argonians back to defend their homeland.
  • "I hear the Legions have been recalled from Fort Swampmoth in Black Marsh, and many of the Argonian slaves have returned to their tribes."
  • "Many of the Argonians say they have been called back to Black Marsh. They disappear into the swamps and are never seen again."
  • "Black Marsh has become more dangerous than ever. Many settlers have been lost, and most non-Argonians have left in fear."
• The Argonians were altered by the Hist in order to combat the Daedra, becoming faster, stronger, and able to endure harsher punishment. When the Oblivion Gates were opened in Black Marsh, the Lizard Folk charged into them so viciously that the Daedra themselves were forced to close them in order to avoid being overrun.
• An-Xileel faction rose to power, very opposed to outside influences.
• Lilmoth’s Hist an An-Xileel bring Umbriel to Tamriel, all ‘imperialized’ Argonians are killed in its wake, the Hist causing them to stand there and offer no resistance.

Argonian Attributes:

• Very capable swimmers, often able to breathe underwater through small gills behind their ears.
• Resistant to poisons
  • Poison resistance has frequently been given as a racial bonus in the games.
  • Shown in e.g. Bath Time quest in Darkwater Crossing ESO
    • "Daril allows Argonians to see the layers of light and sound behind the world. But smooth-skins?

Small doses may work for smooth-skins, but I don't know. Very dangerous."

• Resistant to disease
  • “the mild illness we called the Half-Swim Sniffles passed out of our marshes and into the lands of the dryskins, who called the illness the Knahaten Flu and did not find it mild at all, oh, no. Your people, the furred ones who live to our west, were struck particularly hard” Lore:Loremaster's Archive: Murkmire Q&A Part 2
• Able to change gender as desired, multiple times during their life
  • An Argonian can ask their Hist Tree to change their gender, which is typically followed by a celebratory ceremony. “They are greeted by all, and a great celebration will follow; for someone beloved has left us, and someone beloved has arrived.” Lorebook: A Grand Transformation
  • "The Hist, in all its endless gifts, allows us to change many aspects of ourselves. Our gender is but one. I highly recommend such a change, should you ever get the chance." Quest: Frog Totem Turnaround
• Lay eggs rather than giving birth to live young. Argonian bonding rituals bind together “those who have chosen to lay an egg together.”
  • Not exactly a wedding, while “there is always respect between the bonded pair, romantic feelings are not strictly necessary."
  • Partners are chosen based on an emotional connection and/or physical attraction and/or for political reasons.
  • In some Argonian tribes, it is males who initiate bonding relationships, and in other tribes, the females.
  • Each tribe has its own traditions for the bonding ceremony, but in general a “tree-minder performs the ceremony before the Hist. The bonded pair are blessed with good health and vibrant fertility.” And then “the bonding” commences, which we are not going to go into because this is a family Podcast!
  • Eggs are laid and transferred to an uxith (or "nest"), where they are tended until they hatch.
  • Egg-tenders discern which eggs are healthy and which ones are not destined to hatch. If an Argonian egg is not destined to hatch, it returns to the Hist, sinking into the roots and fading away.
  • The egg-tenders crush biting bugs which may harm the eggs, and also read nursery rhymes and play the flute for their eggs.
  • Argonian hatchlings are born with the ability to walk.

Interesting Tidbits

• The Shadowscales are a longstanding monastic order of Argonian assassins that worship Sithis, the Void, and consists of Saxhleel born underneath the sign of The Shadow. According to some sources, the downfall of the ancient Argonians was because their 'scales were darkened' by the touch of Sithis. Shadowscales also serve as a type of law enforcement in Black Marsh, bringing down 'swamp law' on unruly foreigners and natives alike. They are offered at birth to the Dark Brotherhood, a guild of assassins that also follows Sithis, to be trained in stealth and assassination. A lone Shadowscale located in Skyrim stated that their order was no longer a fully functioning group by 4E 201.
• Anything from The Argonian Account - Most importantly, Rootworms as a mode of travel! Said they use it to transport some of the grain they grow to Cyrodiil! (probably shouldn’t advertise that one)
  • Also note several tribes mentioned within
  • Agacephs - long, needle like snouts with bright colored scales. Nice to a stranger, the others are said to be violent
  • Naga - vicious raiders
  • Paatru - toad-like
  • Sarpa - winged
• The Dead-Water tribe make weapons from the bones and teeth of their fallen egg-siblings. “For the Dead-Water, death is certain. But death brings new life—as shield and bow, or axe and knife. In time, the soul moves on.” [Dialogue of Jaxsik-Orrn]
  • "Naga-Kur fight all the days of their lives. This lets them fight after death too." [Lore: Tribes of Murkmire: The Dead-Water Tribe]

Argonians have strange musical instruments including the vossa-satl. This “looks kind of like a polished wooden clam shell with a series of valves along the top. Each segment of the shell is actually a small, hollow compartment with a mouth like a bugle. According to the musician, each chamber is a different size and produces a different tone. Now here's the craziest part: they put live frogs inside!”  [From Lore: On Playing the Frogs]