Oblivion talk:Imperial Legion

Hello?!

Will you please wait until I can finish the page before you mark it for deletion??!!! >:( --LordDagon 12:30, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Except that Timenn's point is quite valid: the information that you're adding is for the most part not relevant to an Oblivion article. The Oblivion namespace (i.e. any article whose name starts with "Oblivion:") is supposed to be for information that is encountered while playing Oblivion and/or information that players will use while playing the game. What you're adding here seems like it would be far more suitable added to the Tamriel article at Lore:Imperial Legion: our Tamriel namespace is the one intended for non-gameplay-specific background information and intercomparison of different games.

One reason why we try to flag new articles with deletion tags as soon as possible is to help the person creating the article find the most appropriate place for the information early in the process. In other words, why not put your focus into expanding/improving the Lore:Imperial Legion article right now? The alternative is likely to be that you pour a ton of work into this Oblivion article, at which point you will still find out that the content shouldn't be an Oblivion article, and then you'll still have to figure out how to integrate this information into the Tamriel article. --Nephele^Talk 13:01, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Also, just to provide feedback on the changes you've been making since I started writing this comment... We already have articles on Imperial Legion Soldiers, Imperial Legion Archers, Imperial Legion Battlemages, Imperial Legion Foresters, Imperial Prison Guards, Imperial Watch, etc. In each case, the article name was chosen to match the name of the NPC (in agreement with all other NPC articles on the site). Those articles should continue to be the primary source for information on each of these NPCs. A summary article containing links to each of these more detailed articles could perhaps be useful. But the summary article should not be redundant (i.e., don't try to reproduce the details of those articles). And the summary article should not contain detailed information about the Imperial Legion in Morrowind; again, that information belongs in other namespaces such as Tamriel or Morrowind.

You may also want to look at some of the other factions to see how the various namespaces interact. For example, Lore:Mages Guild, Lore:Factions M#Mages Guild, Oblivion:Mages Guild, and Morrowind:Mages Guild. Compare the types of information given in place. Also, be sure to click "edit" on each of the articles and notice the use of tags such as {{Lore:Mages Guild}}. There is only one version of the general information, which is kept centrally located on the Tamriel page; the other articles merely borrow that general information. That's the preferred way to organize information and avoid duplication/redundancy. --Nephele^Talk 13:14, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Also, please do not remove a Proposed Deletion tag without consensus. The idea of such a tag, like the name literally says, is that a user has proposed it for deletion. This doesn't mean that this will necessarily be deleted after the usual waiting period of a week. When an administrator returns after a week to check its deletion request, he/she will first check the talk page to see if the proposed deletion is contested, before removing it. --Timenn < talk > 13:44, 30 January 2008 (EST)

I agree with Timenn, though the article is a sort of history of what we know of the Imperial Legion, there is already a page for that. What I suggest is spell check this information, then merge it into Lore:Imperial Legion. It would benefit UESP and the user more when searching. --Brandol 04:31, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Hmm; it seems logic to merg it in with the Tamriel Article indeed,... allright, go ahead and delete the page. I'l add the info on The tamriel article, if i'm allowed this time ... --LordDagon 11:02, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Contesting Deletion

While large amounts of this article are redundant in this namespace, I highly recommend this page be kept. I came on here to find information on the Legion in Oblivion, this page could have been useful. Cleanup it needs, deletion it doesn't. Robed Dawnbringer 12:55, 6 February 2008 (EST)

Okay, Nephele and I have both passed this over for deletion a couple of times and the article is just sitting here... Personally, the reason I've not deleted it is that I feel there should be an Oblivion-specific page on the Legion but not like this. This page should basically transclude the Tamriel page and then go into a bit of detail about its activities - patrolling the roads, chasing criminals and so on. At the moment the Tamriel page is too game-specific and this one too generic. That's just my thoughts - I'd be glad to hear everyone else's. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:16, 14 February 2008 (EST)

I've attempted to clean up this page and the Tamriel one. Made a start, at least. --Gaebrial 06:57, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Thanks, Gaebrial :) That's the type of reorganization I thought the pages needed. I've made a few additional tweaks, such as trying to adopt the new perspective guideline on the Tamriel page. But having the bulk of the cleanup done makes it much easier to do those final little tweaks! --Nephele^Talk 13:06, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Yeah, great job! I wasn't expecting anybody to pick it up that quickly! –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:32, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Reason for Removal

I just deleted a large chunk of text from the article and also removed a comment about Greek influence on the armor. The Greek influence is questionable at best: lots of armies wore helmets with crests (including, sometimes, the Romans) and in Oblivion, not all Imperial Legionnaires wear them anyway. I don't think it will be helpful to have another "what is this based on" dispute.

I deleted the rest of the text because it's all one user's experience rather than generally useful information. The combat styles vary somewhat, and the tactics section is pure subjectivity. If anybody wants to try to address those concerns they can feel free, but I don't think we need a section on tactics specific to the Legion anyway - there's already enough on the Combat page. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:48, 31 January 2009 (EST)

Combat Skills

(Moved here from article)

The guardsmen are leveled with the character, and are also masters in blade, block, heavy armor and marksman. Therefore, they can prove challenging. The only thing seperating a guard and a high level character, is the equipment quality. While the player can aquire daedric or glass armor, the guardsmen always wear an armor equalient to an iron set of armor and silver weapons.

There are multiple inaccuracies in this paragraph, which is why I have moved it here. Guards are not always masters in combat skills -- they are leveled, which means that their combat skills depend upon the player's level. Simply removing that one sentence from the paragraph would make the entire paragraph out of place, given that the title chosen for the section was "Combat Skills". Furthermore, most guardsmen do not wear iron armor -- steel armor and chainmail armor is far more common, neither of which is equivalent to iron. Not to mention, if the only remaining purpose of the paragraph is to describe guardsmen equipment, then the information would be more relevant under "Uniform" than under "Combat Skills". --Nephele^Talk 13:14, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

Gogan and Maelona

I'm not sure that either of these two should be listed. While they are connected to the Anvil City Watch during The Siren's Deception, the "Faction(s)" section of both of their pages (Gogan and Maelona) make no mention of any actual connection to the city guard. This may be a mistake on their individual pages, but I doubt it would be left out of both. This may also be a moot point since I believe city guards are not "officialy" considered members of the Legion, but that's for another disscussion. -Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs)} 23:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I've removed them, along with Neville, because, as you say, none of them are part of any type of guard faction. Everyone else listed in the section is a member of a guard faction (Anvil Guards, Bruma Guards, etc.) --Nephele^Talk 05:11, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Demographics

The entire Demographics section is bogus. None of these characters are members of the Imperial Legion. They are all members of the guard in the city where they are found. The various city guard forces, with the exception of the guards in Imperial City, are not identified as Legion, are not equipped as Legion, and do not wear Legion armor or uniforms (Legionnaires wear Heavy Armor, but all city guards wear Light Armor; in addition, it is clear from NPC dialog that all guards in cities outside of IC answer directly to the Count or Countess in control of the city, and NOT to the federal government in IC). The entire section should be deleted. The simple fact is: in Oblivion, ALL Imperial Legionnaires are male Imperials. The "exceptions" are not exceptions because they are not Legionnaires. 12.233.146.130 22:52, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

First off, I can't see why this is an issue. I'm surprised that anybody really cares whether or not city guardsmen are part of the Imperial Legion. It doesn't matter, but since it apparently does matter to you, I'll just say that since we're talking about a feudal society, the Counts/Countess are basically Vassals of the Emperor, or the current regent. Thus, their troops are part of the Legion, but still answer directly to the Count. Another explanation is that the current lack of an Emperor coupled with the recent opening of Oblivion Gates has broken down the normal chain of command, so that the City Guardsmen no longer answer to the Imperial City. Different uniforms in a medieval context really isn't surprising.--Ratwar 17:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

__

Hey I just wanted to say it might be useful to mention what paths they take or what glitches they have. Because I just saw two Imperial Legions riding their horse in the middle of the Nibenay Basin and I thought that was strange so I went here to see about it but it looks like there's nothing...

Imperial Legion Armor

Hey I was wondering if there should be a list or something which has all the imperial legion armor and there stats listed in there, I personally think it would be very helpfull and/or insightful to have it. Thanks. 23:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC) — Unsigned comment by Darbashi (talk • contribs)

See Guard Uniforms. --Timenn-<talk> 15:19, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Highest Official

who is the highest ranking imperial legion official in oblvion? — Unsigned comment by Jarlahman5812 (talk • contribs) on 13 April 2010

Adamus Phillida is the commander. After his death, Giovanni Civello becomes the new commander. --Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 19:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

The Imperial Legion Faction doesn't actually have ranks, so all of its members are "equal". The Imperial City Watch, otoh, does. As Matt said, Phillida is the commander of the Watch and Civello replaces him. I guess it just depends whether you consider the Commander of the Imperial Watch to be the Commander of the Legion too. --SerCenKing ^Talk 08:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Dialogue

Should dialogue be added to this page? --Arny 19:34, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

What dialogue do you mean? --Krusty 21:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Like what they say when attacking, greetings stuff like that they have a lot of dialogue. I noticed other npc's pages had unique dialogue's sections --Arny 19:16, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know that we want to do a full OBNPCRP job on the legion members, but the special dialogue might be worth adding. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Should I make a list of there dialogue here before adding them to the page? Arny 10:13, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to add it directly to the page. We can always trim it later. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:17, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Why aren't...

...Imperial Legion Messengers mentioned here? — Unsigned comment by 84.202.72.18 (talk) on June 17

i've personly never seen one in-game so they probly came from a mod. are you running any mods at the moment?--GUM!!! 21:48, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

They're not from a mod. Really only legionnaires with their own pages are listed here. Other specific ones are found under their faction -- Jplatinum16 21:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what the OP means by "messengers" though. The only thing I can think of is the Black Horse Couriers. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:15, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Armour

Could this plate armour used by the Legion in Oblivion be for protectin the Imperial City and the home province of the Empire? It would coincide with the fact that the Legion in Morrowind and Skyrim are wearing the Roman-esque armor. The Legion in Cyrodil is a lot less likely to see action than in the other provinces. This would also use the fact that the Legion in Cyrodil has silver weaponry. Very ceremonial if you ask me.--Canadian Reject 20:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)