Lore talk:Dragon

Dragonlings

Should it be specified that Dragonlings are encountered by the player during Daggerfall? The sources conflict slightly here since Dragons are apparently extinct and never seen by people, however young Dragons are fairly common throughout Daggerfall (according to TES2).--Willyhead^/t 13:31, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Provide some hard evidence and this would be a welcome addition. Assuming we can find any hard evidence in the elusive lore of Daggerfall. These "Dragonlings" may be unrealted to the Dragons mentioned in the article, or it may simply be a developer oversight, or maybe Daggerfall is the only place left in Tamriel with Dragons? More research is needed on this subject, but I don't doubt that this point will be added sometime. --HMSVictory^Talk 11:24, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

...And the article does say "supposedly extinct" and "sources conflict." --HMSVictory^Talk 11:25, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes, but it also says If dragons still exist at all, they are never seen (they are seen in TES2). And you're probably right about the developer oversight, the fact that dragons are seen in Daggerfall then said to be extinct in later games seems very clashy! I've never played Daggerfall before, but if we could get hold of a Daggerfall vet we might be able to learn more about the matter.--Willyhead^/t 12:24, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

The reason we don't see dragons is that they would be huge creatures, and the collisions associated with them in a game would be a huge technical barrier. One of the developers commented, "They DO exist, just not everywhere." at sometime around Morrowind's release Source. Therefore, I'm changing the page to reflect that, to our knowledge, they are not extinct.--Ratwar 13:07, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Right. I've tweaked a little on the article to correspond with your edit. What you have said makes absolute sense. Anyway, the point of Dragonlings in Daggerfall still warrants a mention, so maybe we should get in contact with Uniblab or Timmeh. --HMSVictory^Talk 04:19, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

If there are "many in-game sources" that "say they are extinct", please could you provide us with some? Google provides no relevant hits either on UESP or TIL so I'd like know see these sources. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 05:00, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Unless they went extinct some time between Daggerfall and Morrowind? I believe the statement about them being extinct was somewhere in Morrowind. (Maybe that's what they really meant by the Dragon Break? Heh.) --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 07:37, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Their apparent extinction is mentioned in both Morrowind and Oblivion. I can't remember exactly where, but maybe you could look in the dialogue bank in the CS? --HMSVictory^Talk 06:36, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

I've looked and there is no such reference in either game. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:45, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Are you sure it wasn't in a book that you read? If the dialogue banks don't make any reference to the dragons' extinction, then maybe there is a book that does. Mysterious Akavir states that the dragons went extinct there, but I couldn't find any references to them being extinct in Tamriel.--Willyhead^/t 08:39, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

(outdent) Well Mysterious Akavir is subtitled (on our site anyway) "Inaccurate information about the continent Akavir", plus it seems to be more allegorical than factual - "Since that time the cat-folk have tried to become the Dragons. Tosh Raka is the first to succeed. He is the largest Dragon in the world" would be plain weird if taken literally. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 08:54, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Who says that dragonlings are not just simler to dragons and that how thay got the name?86.45.78.158 07:15, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Redguard

Why has no one added infomation on the Dragon in Redguard? A dragon that actually converses with Cyrus, the player. One that aided the empire, one that we have illustrations of, one that helped win the battle of Stros M'kai for the Empire. — Unsigned comment by The Old Ye Bard (talk • contribs) at 09:36 on 19 August 2008 (GMT)

Not only this ^ but in response to the above section I believe, though my memory may very well be faulty, that there was a non-aggressive "NPC" Dragon in a castle hall in Daggerfall. So we know that there are dragons atleast up to 60? 70? years before the events of TES: IV Oblivion. Although the events in Redguard were a few centuries before Morrowind and Oblivion it still warrants note as it was an important part in the War and the game.

• Seeing as how the opening lines for the Skyrim trailer refer to "their return" (reffering to Dragons) one must think that if they were not considered extinct circa 4E 433 then they must have dissappeared in the 4 century gap...
• (Disclaimer: I have not read the entirety of this subject article so any information that I have stated that has already been corrected or already noted then please, feel free to ignore it) --Clan Orion 03:01, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, first of all what you saw was a Dragonling (mentioned above). According to Mysterious Akavir (a supposedly inaccurate account; it was news for me when I first found out. One of our major sources on Dragons is inaccurate! >_<) Dragons went extinct long ago. This matches up with Skyrim's trailer "... the Elder Scrolls told of their return..." It's all so jumbled and obscure, we may as well wait till Skyrim for an answer.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 05:18, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

The dragon from Redguard has his own article at Lore:Nafaalilargus. I'm very interested in your sighting of an NPC dragon. I doubt it was a dragonling - might it have been Skakmat? If so, can you remember what the dragon looked like outside of conversation or where you found him? --Legoless 13:04, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes it was Skakmat and I did NOT see him, as stated in his article he doesn't appear in-game. What I did see was only what I had read up here: http://xlengine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4 . Sorry for the mistake. --Clan Orion 20:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Nafaalilargus is likely to be the Dragon Nahfaalar mentioned in "Atlas of Dragons", a book added in TESV: Skyrim. Perhaps his name in Redguard is an Imperialized version of his true Dovah name. The book mentions he has survived since the Dragon War by constantly making alliances with human rulers. This protects him from the Blades - but not from Cyrus, who finally slew him. --[[Guest: Pilaf The Defiler]] 21:22 12/24/2012 64.253.223.247

Peryite

Can anyone confirm or deny that Peryite takes a form of a Dragon just to spite Akatosh? This is the statement "Peryite also takes the form of a dragon, but this is only to spite Akatosh." Yay or nay? — Unsigned comment by 168.105.125.35 (talk) at 01:01 on September 14, 2011

As you can see from the article, the statement is in need of citation. I was the one who added it, but I'm unsure where I heard it. --Legoless 19:11, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I can't remember the name but in Oblivion there is a book that gives info about all of the Daedric princes. There might be info on Peryite concerning Akatosh. I think I also remember the dragon thing about Peryite from somewhere. RIM 19:22, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim

Shouldn't we update the lore with what we know so far about Skyrim?BenScoHolm 00:15, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

We're waiting for the game to come out before adding extra information. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

The current Skyrim info can be seen at Skyrim:Dragon. --Legoless 11:04, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Extinct

Now that Skyrim has come out, do we still need the first sentence of this article to say that dragons are often thought to be extinct?

Well, technically they were. Now we just have zombie dragons. 76.166.187.131 11:47, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Didn't Paarthurnax survive... --139.153.52.39 04:16, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, along with at least one other. It's a safe bet there are others who are unknown. The point is, to the people of Tamriel, dragons were long thought to be extinct. Minor Edits 04:28, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

They are not "Zombie-Dragons". Alduin revived them completely with his shout. 188.22.72.246 20:07 , 10. January 2012 (GMT+1)

Randomly Spawned "Dragon Aftermath"?

I fast traveled to the Hall of the Vigilant when I used Clear Skies twice. The first time I held the button a little short and only cast two words. So I waited and cast it again for all three, when suddenly a Blood Dragon spawned behind me. Not even landing or roaring or starting fight music; Just merely loaded (Xbox 360). This was odd, but whatever. So I killed it and continued North-East until I happened upon a road (Casting "Clear Skies" the entire time due to boredom) where I suddenly happened upon a Dragon's dead body. A "Dragon" variant, not a "Blood" or anything else. The Dragon let me absorb the Dragon Soul (Two Souls in a minute? Sweet.) and I noticed something. I've traveled this road before and never once did I kill a Dragon here. Next to the Dragon's carcass is the body of an Imperial, aptly named "Imperial", as well as a High Elf (Named "High Elf") and another Imperial named "Imperial". The second Imperial is set on fire (But not charred). There is fire on the ground as well. There is a wagon off of the road but I can not find a Horse or a Horse body. There is also a living Stray Dog. I am wondering if, in rare occurrences, the aftermath of a Dragon's assault can be found? The implications here lead me to believe the Dragon attacked and the Stray Dog took the Dragon down. Had it been anything else I'm sure there'd be more bodies. 11:56 PM 27, Jan 2012 (CST).

Wen Dragon start appear in game

I have played for some time now and i have not see a dragon becouse i have not give Dragonstone to complite quest but i just wonder if this is the point in game that triger dregons to appear in game. I think ther need to be note on this mather to wen Dragons start to appear in game in this section.— Unsigned comment by NEVER BoRN (talk • contribs) on 14 March 2012

That kind of information wouldn't belong on a Lore page, but you'll find it here for sure: Skyrim:Dragon#Location. Hope that helps! –Eshe^talk 14:10, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

What's this jill busisness?

I'm seeing a ton of references regarding jills all over fan forums, but not a single reference on this site, nor can I find an official source stating what the hell they are anywhere else. I'm getting that they are somehow related to dragons(hence posting to this page), but can someone explain where I can find their backstory? — Unsigned comment by 85.191.86.135 (talk) at 11:24 on 26 March 2012

From what I can find, some of the pre release content mentions it. Here it says "Alduin has a group of black dragons, known as Jills." That is the only reference to it I can find. (Eddie The Head 11:42, 26 March 2012 (UTC))

Old convo, but anyway... According to Kirkbride, female dragons known as Jills, but relatively little is known about them. They basically only show up to mend Dragonbreaks or help to fix time distortions. For this reason they are known as "minute-menders". They are said to have feminine traits. See Nu Hatta Intercept: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept --Jimeee (talk) 10:40, 22 October 2013 (GMT)

Recent Edit Tranclusion Issues

I'm not currently able to sift through this article at the moment, but the recent editions to this article mess up the transclusion to Lore:Bestiary D. I hate just handing off work to other editors, but I lack the current time to locate the error to remedy it. If someone can find it so that the recent cleanup effort can be readded to it, it would be much appreciated. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 20:37, 12 October 2012 (GMT)

After removing a rogue </noinclude> it transcludes reasonable. --Alfwyn (talk) 20:45, 12 October 2012 (GMT)

Sorry, my bad. It looks like I just went on auto-pilot when adding a reference. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 21:05, 12 October 2012 (GMT)

Akaviri origins anachronistic?

We learn a lot of new Dragon lore in Skyrim. Previous to its release it made a lot of sense to claim Dragons originated in Akavir. In Skyrim, the suggestion is made that the type we fight are revived beasts originally from Atmora, not Akavir. The new lore still maintains some came over from Akavir much later in the First Era being chased by the forerunners to the Blades, but I'm not sure if it's lore-accurate for this page to suggest Dragons "are of Akaviri origin." Perhaps it could be edited to maintain they apparently once lived in both Atmora and Akavir? -- [[Guest: Pilaf The Defiler]] 21:18 11/24/2012 64.253.223.247

The problem is, dragons being on Atmora and Akavir is not contradictory. Given that the Akaviri invaded both Morrowind and Skyrim shows that they could have come from a northern and eastern region. Given that dragons can, well, fly, they can still be from Akavir. Also, the Tomes leading to High Hrothgar and the Throat of the World, shows that dragons spread all over Nirn. I think that the article should not say any sure location for the origin of dragons, just to be sure.--Br3admax (talk) 03:29, 25 November 2012 (GMT)

I've tweaked it a little; it should be fine. It's a concrete piece of Tamrielic lore that dragons are thought to the native children of Akavir; the ultimate veracity of that claim is not our concern here, and people can speculate on their "true" origins and migratory patterns in the forums. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 04:01, 25 November 2012 (GMT)

Types of Dragons

Shouldn't the various types of dragon be listed here? At least as images in the gallery much like in Lore:Kwama.--Ashendant (talk) 10:42, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

What do you mean by different types? The different difficulties of dragons found in skyrim aren't really different types at all, whereas a kwama queen and a kwama forager are very very very different creatures Jeancey (talk) 20:52, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

Well some of them yeah are like that, but other are different from the nromal like the Serpentine, Revered and Legendary. Anyway what i'm saying is that this article as poor ammount of pictures and it couldn't hurt to have these guys in the gallery.--Ashendant (talk) 21:03, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

Possibly Serpentine, but revered and legendary don't seem to be different types, just older. Possibly more pictures, but not EVERY picture from skyrim or anything. Jeancey (talk) 21:07, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

Revered look like charmeleons, and legendary have bug eyes. Of course not every picture, that would be absurd, just one of each type or colour.--Ashendant (talk) 21:12, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

One of each color is something we want to avoid. One of each type, with the picture focused on the part that is different (ie, the eyes of a legendary dragon) would suffice. If it is the same exact shape but a different color, then just one is good enough. Jeancey (talk) 21:21, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

Hmm every dragon type has different models(or at least different details(from what I can see)) I'll try to do my best.--Ashendant (talk) 21:28, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

I'll request better pictures.--Ashendant (talk) 21:33, 3 May 2013 (GMT)

(←) http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragons_(Skyrim) <- someone add info from this page to this one please!!! — Unsigned comment by 82.40.161.14 (talk) at 01:20 on 7 January 2016 (UTC)

That's called plagiarism, and we already have all that info here. —Legoless (talk) 01:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Betmer

Are not Dragons beastfolk? Isn't the definition a sapient, beastial race?— Unsigned comment by 173.227.45.68 (talk) at 23:46 on 30 April 2015‎

They're semi-divine and not at all humanoid. I'm not entirely sure they should even be treated as a mortal race, but the current categorisation of Akaviri seems fine to me. —Legoless (talk) 09:13, 1 May 2015 (GMT)

Wrong source cited

When citing the source of the sentence stating that the Dragons were run out of Vvardenfell by Cliff Racers, the citation leads to a source that doesn't even mention Cliff Racers. I have the proper source right here: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/general-elder-scrolls-weaseling The third question is where you need to look, according to this source, "WormGod" AKA Gary Noonan said it. I don't know how to alter citations, so I'm leaving this here. Scorching Emblem (talk) 18:48, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

In fact, I think it would be better to remove that sentence, or at least change it to something less definitive. The entries on the TIL page, while coming from Bethesda developers, seem to be more humorous than serious, and I don't think they should be taken literally. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 22:25, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

I think it'd be nice as a little joke to keep on the page, since it IS technically canon until otherwise contradicted. Scorching Emblem (talk) 12:40, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Not sure why this remained, uncited on the page, but I have removed it. Keeping it because it's funny isn't a good reason, and UOL isn't canon ever. It provides context to a page on which it is substantially relevant, and this tidbit, while apparently amusing to some, isn't substantially relevant to the topic of dragons as a whole. Jeancey (talk) 23:24, 4 October 2019 (GMT)

females

Where the female dragons? Are just males or are they somewhere else?--Igottabombshell4ya (talk) 10:34, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

nah female dragons are real, they're called Jills and they're off in the timestream mending time discreptancies so we never see em. There's like two in King Edward The Rim of the Sky (talk) 18:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Page move to Lore:Dragon

On the Discord it was brought up that this is an ancient page, older than lorespace itself. It should be a singular name to avoid inconsistency with other articles. This should be a bot move, I wanted to add a move header but I don't know how to do that - would appreciate if someone can look into this. —Achernar1 (talk) 08:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Recent Debate on Dragon Armor

There has been some recent debate on the forging of armor from the remains of dragons. I do not mean to continue an argument, but since proof of error was requested, I would like to mention that there is concrete proof that forging armor from dragon remains is not recent or newly invented. Sure, dragonplate armor is a recent addition to our smithing abilities in-game (perhaps showing it is more ubiquitous only recently), but the lore shows these items existed long before even the Second Era in ESO. For just one example, I would like to point to the Gauntlets of the Companions. It's description states:

"These ancient Dragonplate gauntlets are believed to have been gifts from Ysgramor to his most trusted companions, to ensure they had the fortitude to keep up with him in his conquest of Skyrim."

Given that these gauntlets are made of dragonplate and were forged in the Merethic Era (the time of Ysgramor and the Return), it is clear that armor made from dragon remains has existed for a very long time. Another example would be the Dov-rha Sabatons. It's codex entries include:

"King Olaf One-Eye took the Dragon Numinex captive around that time. I have heard the Dragon paid for its life by providing the kings of Skyrim with draconic armor."

"These belong to a Dov-rha axethane of the 1E Nord Empire--the kings of Skyrim awarded their bravest warriors with armor crafted from Dragons."

Thus, in the First Era, the ability to make armor from dragons was known.

These are two examples of normal armor being made from the remains of dragons that far predate the Third and Fourth Eras. BananaKing5 (talk) 05:09, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Guantlets was already mentioned under Uses. I went ahead and added the Dov-Rha Sabatons lore for additional context there as well. Analeah Oaksong (talk) 02:16, 12 August 2024 (UTC)