Morrowind talk:Houses

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Archive 1: Oct 2006 - Nov 2011

Anywhere?[edit]

Couldn't you technically live anywhere? I mean, this article can be helpful, but really you could go into any house, taunt the owner and kill them or even just keep your things there while they are alive. Really it should also include Ancestral Tombs and Smuggler Caves. This seems either very incomplete or unnecessary. --Archer7 17:35, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, this is probably just a list of more convenient or popular ones. It is not meant to be all-inclusive. Also, I would not want to use a cave or tomb where monsters might respawn. --Brf 15:25, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
True. Although smugglers caves would be relatively safe from monsters and such. Perhaps we should add a list of large smugglers caves that are conveniently close to cities with lots of storage...? --Archer7 16:46, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
While I agree that a completely exhaustive list of all possible dwelling places would be inconvenient and of not much help, I am also bothered by the fact that the houses/dwellings included here (and in the sub-pages) are based on completely subjective qualities such as convenience, popularity, desirability, legibility (sic, I'll assume this means legality), cozy-ness, storage capacity, display space and/or storage safety. In the spirit of guidelines for NPC relevance and taking submission guideline suggestion(s) into consideration, I would like to propose the following criteria for a noteworthy home:
  1. Contains at least one sleeping furniture that is not within line of sight of any entity in its default position
    • Sleeping furniture denotes a bed, hammock or any other construct that may be used for resting in-game
      • This disqualifies bed-like or bed-shaped structures such as those found in Dwemer Ruins
    • Entity means either an occupant, a respawning creature/NPC or a roaming creature/NPC
      • In the case of NPCs, it is alright if they do not protest the use of the aforementioned sleeping furniture (eg. Blade Trainers)
    • Default position means the assigned position/wander range of the aforementioned entity
      • The area is considered ineligible if it is necessary to move/remove the entity by combat, spells (eg. Command, Demoralize, Frenzy) or console commands ( SetPos, Position/PositionCell)
      • If a quest, however, removes, or necessitates the removal of, the occupant, the area is considered eligible; see Rule #3
  2. Contains at least one form of storage that is not within line of sight of any entity in its default position
    • Storage includes but is not limited to barrels, baskets, chests, cloth sacks, crates, desks, drawers, permanent corpses, sacks and urns.
  3. The first two conditions are achieved only by the following means:
  4. Is an interior cell with at least one portal leading outside
    • Portal refers to any door, hatch door, ladder or trap door that triggers cell transition
    • Outside refers to either an exterior cell or a canton level (for Vivec and Molag Mar dwellings)
      • This disqualifies open boats, prisons and/or dungeons
  5. Is in close proximity to at least one trader service
    • Close proximity encompasses all areas that an NPC can reach within two non-teleporting/intervention interior-exterior/exterior-interior transitions
      • Exterior-exterior cell transitions do not count, however, they must be within reasonable limits (I know this is a subjective condition but, without this, Arrille's Tradehouse in Seyda Neen will be considered in "close proximity" to the Dunmer stronghold of Marandus in Molag Amur)
Thus, all other dwelling places that do not meet these criteria will no longer be included.
And now, lemme rationalize why some guidelines were not included:
  • Transport service is not a necessity. After all, a player may comfortably live in Pelagiad as it has its own share of services, even more than that "damp little squat", Seyda Neen
  • As it seems to still be a debatable issue, "container safety" is ignored
  • Also ignored is the presence of display areas as not all players engage in "dollhouse play" (or museum-play, if that seems offensive)
  • There is no mention that the house must be completely devoid of occupants. Indeed, Balmora visitors may safely take residence in Ralen Hlaalo's Manor as it has a bed and storage spaces well out of sight of its sole occupant, Uryne Nirith. Likewise, they may even choose to retain the services of the Balmora Council Club publican, Banor Seran after slaughtering his Camonna Tong companions.
  • There is also no mention of the trader's hostility. This one, though, I'd like to get your feedback on.
  • There is even no mention that the dwelling place should be a house. I have just started playing Morrowind last year so I'm not sure if there are any smugglers' caves or Dunmer strongholds that meet the above conditions.
Now I'm, personally, not sure whether this page needs to exist at all, nonetheless, I'm pretty sure the proposed criteria could very well apply to the sub-pages as well. What do you guys think? I know the proposals really lengthy and TLDR but I tried to make it as unambiguous as possible and I'd really appreciate feedback :) Salamangkero 12:32, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Article does not mention stolen tags[edit]

Another problem with this article is that it does not mention the stolen tags you will get on your items if you store them in containers that are owned by another person (even if that person is already dead). For instance, if you store your items in the containers in Foryn Gilnith's shack in Seyda Neen, they will be marked stolen when you take them out. This could come as a shock to someone if they happened to be arrested by the guards while carrying a bunch of stuff they had stored there. — Unsigned comment by Acerac (talkcontribs) at 19:45 on 14 November 2012

Voiced Support[edit]

I happened to find this article really useful, not entirely as much information as I would have liked sometimes; I also wanted to know if I could sleep in a shipwreck but it isn't mentioned... All well, time to go swimming. — Unsigned comment by 98.255.36.16 (talk) at 08:50 on 29 December 2012

Not useless[edit]

Make it simple. All houses provided to the players by the game where your stuff will not be marked as stolen. Then a list of all dead bodys located in town after all they do make the best storage if you dont mind clutter. An i believe body's do not add this tag but i could be wrong.

Rewrites needed?[edit]

After reading through these articles, I am of the opinion that they could all use an across-the-board rewriting, with my main complaints being:

1. Rather than encouraging the random killing of NPCs, I think these articles could be condensed and better serve the reader by showing houses where the occupant wanders in a different location and won't know you're there, or showing houses that are guaranteed to be unoccupied following a quest, rather than saying "if you off this random person, you can live here". I feel like there should not be any encouragement to eliminate and move into buildings occupied by service providers of any sort, be that merchants, cornerclubs/taverns, or guilds of any kind.
2. The general tone and presentation of each of these articles makes a rather bad read with the fake real estate sales pitch, the "City's Finest Homes" title, and it's not up to the same standards of other articles.
3. The grids instead of a table of contents isn't bad, but it's also not the most efficient use of space, and I feel like with the right-aligned images like this, a regular table of contents wouldn't hurt anything, and we just keep in the level two headers, redone as "Small Houses", "Medium Houses", and "Large Houses", with the actual houses under a level three header.

I am willing to work up a proof of concept for one of the random cities in the next couple of days to put forward for what I think would look better and allow feedback on my ideas. The Raconteur (talk) 00:43, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Inaccuracies, false information and lack of a clear objective[edit]

Hi,

This is one of the more persistent wrong articles in UESP wiki. Since 2006 is stated here that "In Morrowind you cannot own your own house", with diverse variants, which is clearly false.

I supose that the main purpose of this article is to provide information about players houses/homes, as Oblivion:Houses or Skyrim:Houses, but from the the first editions, the article mix info about NPC's houses, tips for occupying houses, info (mostly inaccurate) about containers or re-spawn, and only in late editions the the 4 possible legally own houses in Morrowind (and Bloodmoon). With that last addition as in the current form, the article is totally contradictory, because the false first statement is deny by the info about the Morrowind legally owned houses.

My proposal for article re-write and expansion:

1. I think the first sentence must be removed, because simply it's false. In Morrowind you CAN own your own house.

2. The purpose of this article must be the player houses only, the npc's houses must have their own article or at least not to be mixed in this one, so the last last section with links to the cities must disappear too.

3. The info about the 3 Great Houses manors and Solstheim Estate must be improved and expanded greatly: Not only links to its own articles, but a brief info about the owning process, the main features, style, NPCs, or location, some image, etc. The 4 player houses specific articles could be expanded also.

4. Info about accomodations, beds or storing in legal way (guilds mostly and minor other houses as Caius osades example) and maybe some tips about resting and storing in first gameplay stages, could be added to the article also but only briefly and secondarily.

5. The tips about killing NPCs and take their houses must be removed.

So summarizing, the article must include the same type of information than Oblivion or Skyrim ones, a simple, objective description of the different possibilities of legally owning houses. In the case of Morrowind, paying, questing and "building" it. And only secondarily some other accomodation info.

P.S. I don't understand the naming convention in all UESP articles about houses, calling simply "houses" without mention the player, to the ownable houses pages and "homes" and not "npc's homes/houses/residences" for Npc's owned houses.--Tamrié (talk) 21:23, 4 June 2017 (UTC)