User talk:Jeancey/Dzealo

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The Game is Invaluable. Let's Make it Historical

Hi Jeancey.

I'm an avid game player, and I came back, one more time, to finish Oblivion to my satisfaction. I'm an explorer, and I wanted to see all worth seeing. I could not have done it without this Wiki. So much thanks to you all!

As with other games, the time comes when it's increasingly difficult to encourage new players. The flavor of the current Wiki is toward those, years ago, who loaded their newly purchased game, played for days, then started asking questions about how to optimize their play. All well and good, but there now needs to be more of an emphasis to entice new players. I was distressed by the page describing how to win in 20 minutes, for example. This may be factual, and obliquely interesting for avid, experienced fans, but it is NOT the way to attract new players. Nor was the page I stumbled across suggesting ideas for role playing.

From the recent edits, you are obviously personally involved with your Oblivion experience. May I encourage you to write a new page, prominently displayed, about what Oblivion offers for new players in 2014?

Sincerely,

The Player Who is Back for More — Unsigned comment by 24.6.156.141 (talk) at 09:51 on 7 June 2014

Arena Cities

Please see here before adding any more appearance notes back to the city pages. —Legoless (talk) 18:50, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Many of those were added by WoahBro, in case you hadn't noticed that. :) ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 19:02, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Yup, just letting Jeancey know since it looked like he was going through them. —Legoless (talk) 19:05, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

fix

Did I do something wrong or did you fix something else? Lorenut (talk) 21:02, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Both, lol. When you removed the Online part, you made it a link to a mainspace page, one that will never exist. The Online: is part of the name of the page, so that has to be part of the link. A pipe was needed after the name of the page however. I also fixed several other achievements. Jeancey (talk) 21:06, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Ok thanks for letting me know. I'll try to work on getting better at editing things. Lorenut (talk) 21:13, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

I'm sorry if I'm making you fix a lot of my mistakes. I've been on this site awhile, but I'm still relatively new to the editing side of things. Lorenut (talk) 21:51, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

It's no problem :) That's why I'm here! Jeancey (talk) 21:52, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Lower-case Letter?

Can you explain this a bit more? I thought it would've been okay now, so I'm wondering which letter it is that's causing the issue. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 17:57, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Well, when there was an article in the name, it uses the second letter to determine which page to put in the header. Since the second letter was a lower case c, it was putting Lore c in the header, which is technically a different page than Lore C. Using the sortkey, I made the c in conversation capital, which then changed the link in the header to the correct link of Lore C. So it wasn't really category sorting as much as the header link. Jeancey (talk) 17:59, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

The change I made to the template the other day should've fixed that. It should've seen it as Lore C, and I thought that's where it showed up when I looked. I'll have another look at it in case I goofed. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:23, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

There, I think that's got it. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:29, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Shows correctly for me :) Thanks! Jeancey (talk) 18:37, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Cookie

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Hello Jeancey! You have done awesome work on this site! I'm giving you cookie. Lorenut (talk) 18:12, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Thanks!!! Jeancey (talk) 18:15, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Unique Dialogue for Hentus?

Hey Jean, I was browsing some edit histories and I noticed that someone removed your name from the check for unique dialogue, claiming that the NPC does in fact have unique, quest related dialogue. I'm not familiar with Morrowind or the project, but does that need to be checked again? Is it okay to remove someone's name from the check list like that? Normally I wouldn't get involved in a project I'm not...well, involved in, but given the circumstances I thought it would be prudent to ask. Zul se onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 16:44, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

Since Jeancey hasn't been around the wiki in awhile, I'll take this one. I know that Hentus has a quest, so I'm pretty sure that he does indeed have unique dialogue. I can't recall exactly what he says, but I'm pretty sure it's unique considering it's about someone's missing pants (true story, Morrowind is the best). Removing a name from a checklist is probably best answered by Jeancey himself, but if someone is wrong about a check on a page, I think it would be okay for it to be removed. •WoahBro^►talk 17:24, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

Yep, removing a name from a project tag is fine if it needs to be rechecked. —Legoless (talk) 17:53, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

Okay, thanks for the clarification guys. Zul se onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 17:55, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

Sorry

i made an error when creating the links but i know what i did wrong and i am making shure if i edit again it will not have the flaws and i will wait.

Question

Hi Jeancey. I'm just wondering why the ESO link was removed. I thought the Summerset Isle(s) article was about the province, not Alinor/Summerset, and Auridon is a part of Summerset Isle(s). — Unsigned comment by Random Shadowscale (talk • contribs) at 04:44 on 21 July 2014

Technically, it is about the island, which is why the first sentence says "Summerset Isle is a large island." We've been meaning to create a province specific page for a while, but just haven't had time to get to it. I've asked one of our best lore page creators to put it on his to-do list, but until then, we should probably keep it to just the island, as the page is written that way (plus, it is singular). Jeancey (talk) 04:50, 21 July 2014 (GMT)

Alright, I understand. Thank you for the response! Random Shadowscale (talk) 04:55, 21 July 2014 (GMT)

Removing passive creatures from the bestiary

Isn't removing passive creatures that are shown in game but aren't specificly named there, a bit like actively denying they don't exist, even trough the developers put there? I understand if you want to remove the rest because we don't have images to compare if they are different or not.--Ashendant (talk) 21:57, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

They aren't actually creatures in the game. They are background. Like a tree, or a rock, except some of them move. There were clams and seastars on the shores of morrowind and oblivion, but they were never included in the list of passive creatures. Passive creatures historically have been ones you can interact with. In Morrowind and Oblivion you shouldn't interact with them. In Skyrim you could interact with clams so they were included on the bestiary, but for Skyrim only. In ESO, you can't interact with the birds, the clams, or the seastars, thus they shouldn't even be on the ESO passive creatures list. They AREN'T creatures, in game terms, and in terms we've used since the beginning of the site. Jeancey (talk) 22:03, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

But they are creatures in Lore terms. I mean the fact that they are functionally statues gameplaywise shouldn't have anything to do whetever they are on or not on a lore article. The fact that they are in these Passive creature lists is because we recognize them as animals/creatures and creatures that deserve to be in the bestiary. There are a few more creatures that fit that bill that are already on the bestiary.--Ashendant (talk) 22:10, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

The point is, in the past these creatures WOULDN'T be on the passive creatures list. Someone just put them on the list with whatever names they thought fit. There are literally dozens of similar creatures in ESO that AREN'T on the list. We shouldn't be recognizing them as creatures because they are simply decoration. Just like we don't assign random names to every decorative plant in all the games and put them on the flora list, we shouldn't be assigning random names to decorative "creatures" and putting them on the bestiary. We haven't done it in the past and we shouldn't be doing it now. They would be entirely unsubstantiated for all but appearance. If you want to do this, you would have to open a community portal discussion, because it would mean adding things from previous games that were never considered creatures before. Jeancey (talk) 22:21, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

Ugh. I guess In some cases I could look for side references in the lore... But that would be obnoxious and extremely obtuse way of going around it. I guess I could post about that in the community portal, but if I did that I would do a larger discussion on what should be on the bestiary and what creatures should have their own lore articles.

I should also note that on the Serpent and Spectre case, there are already various examples of creatures that are repeated troughout the bestiary because they have slightly different names through games.--Ashendant (talk) 22:28, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

If you can find an actual name given by ZeniMax to these creatures they cannot be added under player-assigned names. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:30, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

(edit conflict) This is different. Both Giant Snake and Serpent appear in ESO, as do Spectre and Ghost and Wraith. They have the same model, however, and it is the equivalent of having a Fox, and a fox named Kit. Kit isn't a separate creature, it is still just a fox. We already had Giant Snake on the bestiary from Daggerfall, so a Serpent is just a giant snake. Same with Ghost. Jeancey (talk) 22:31, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

Honestly, we SHOULD be using the same guidelines as Lore:Flora, i.e. It is named. There are some other plant specific guidelines, but that is the main one. Also, creatures simply mentioned by books but without any accompanying description shouldn't be included either. Jeancey (talk) 22:36, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

Actually, creatures that don't appear in-game are fine. —Legoless (talk) 22:39, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

(edit conflict) The problem is that there are indeed no rules on this listed.

I disagree with the book thing, if a creature is stated to exist in the lore we shouldn't presume they don't because they aren't described. Flora rules also mention specific guidelines on books but doesn't mention. There's also the problem in that the authors presume that we known what they look like and use them as symbol.(as is the case of the Hare in a myth) or in poetry(as is the case of the Jackal in a child song that mentions where they live.

I would also like to know when its appropriate or not to make articles on creatures themselves.--Ashendant (talk) 22:43, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

(←) What I meant was, if all we have is the creatures name, and that's it, they don't deserve to be in the bestiary. If they have lore attached to that name, that's a different conversation. Jeancey (talk) 22:47, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

(edit conflict) That would be a issue with Shadowkey being unpopular... and as far as we know Shadowkey is still Lore. It's just the problem of not being able to find anything about it, even trough they existed.(unless Bethesda ruled it non-canon)

It's just been really really frustrating to want to contribute to the bestiary, but then can't because there aren't any rules written on how to contribute to this or when is it or not appropriate to make new articles, and a load of tiny other problems that I never seem to know how to solve and get no answer. :/--Ashendant (talk) 22:53, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

Shadowkey is different. There IS lore and appearance and all that attached to those names, but no one has access or inclination at the moment to play Shadowkey. Just generally assume that creatures that deserve full articles have them. There are a few exceptions, but mostly they just need entries rather than full articles. Jeancey (talk) 22:54, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

Yeah but otherwise all creatures for books have at least a bit of lore associated with them, so i'm not really seeing what you're talking about. Can you give an example?

Again that answer is flawed because it depends on the work of other people rather than actual lore content. Goblins really need one and has been requested at least three times on the bestiary talk page, yet you opposed it, so I don't think that there is actually any rule on it.--Ashendant (talk) 23:05, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

Just because it has been requested doesn't mean it SHOULD be a page. And you are the only one to request it. Two others suggested that maybe it should have its own page, but that was 3 years ago and the fact that no one created one in those three should tell you that it wasn't really needed. The entry could use expanding, but I don't see a real reason for a full page, at least not a bestiary page. Jeancey (talk) 23:18, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

I already gave various reasons why it was a needed and presented a example that had significantly less lore than goblins(Rieklings) but still had their own article.

Anyway there is no point in continuing discussing this here since there aren't actually any hard rules defined. I'll make a post in the community portal and hope I get an answer to a lot of my questions and get some rules written down.--Ashendant (talk) 23:28, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

You are assuming that because it exists, I support that article. There are dozens of entries in the Bestiary that I think either shouldn't exist or should be combined. All those lycanthropes really don't deserve entries. They can simply be mentioned on the Lycanthropy lore page. Only Werewolves, werebears and wereboars have actually appeared in games and really can sustain an entry in the bestiary. Jeancey (talk) 23:31, 22 July 2014 (GMT)

Space when Replying

I don't want to sound annoying or anything. But when you reply to someone on discussion pages could you give a single line of space between your answer and the person that answered? It's nothing important, but it just makes it slightly harder to reread the answers when editing. Hope you don't mind.--Ashendant (talk) 19:59, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

In addition to this, it also maintains equal spacing after the first indent. Minor thing, but still. —Legoless (talk) 21:19, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

Adding a space is neither a requirement or necessary. There is no perceptible difference in spacing when doing it either, if there is at all. It may help when distinguishing between posts while writing a reply, but that is not really an issue as you can still read it, or add a space while typing then removing it before saving. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:32, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

It not a requirement, but its still polite to click enter once before writing your answer so others can read it better. Adding spaces and them removing them doesn't help if the discussion has been going for a while and there is a huge wall of text. Again, this is merely a suggestion.--Ashendant (talk) 21:50, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

It's neither polite nor impolite whatever way you do it, otherwise it would be in the wiki-guides so as you didn't offend anyone. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:56, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

It's common practice to keep code clean. Please don't assume a friendly tip to be anything more than that. —Legoless (talk) 22:03, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

It was made into an issue by claiming it had an affect on spacing and being polite. It is neither of these things, as any experienced editor should know. I was merely pointing out that neither of these claims are true. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:09, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

Well I consider it to be polite, but what others consider polite may be different, but it doesn't really matter. This was merely a suggestion to make reading easier for other editors.--Ashendant (talk) 22:25, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

I accept that it was well-intentioned, it just has no foundation in policy or common standards to ask someone to change. I would have left it to Jeancey to reply had an unsubstantiated claim not been made that needed a rebuttal. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:35, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

Fair enough!--Ashendant (talk) 22:42, 26 July 2014 (GMT)

Addbelow Parameter

Hi Jeancey. I noticed that you've been moving text out of the {{Place Summary}} template, such as you did here. The purpose of the 'addbelow' parameter is to allow images to be inserted directly after a template while still keeping the text on the first line. It's possible to do without it, but the template negates the need to tinker around with spacing and it's used universally in the Oblivion namespace. Would you mind fixing the few edits you've made? —Legoless (talk) 19:51, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

Since the function is currently useless (as it can be replicated without the template), and since woahbro and I are currently in the process of making it useful, I have started removing the addbelow parameter from the current pages. It'll take a while, which is why I didn't go on a spree or anything. Currently, all you have to do to have the same function as the addbelow is to put the text on the same line as the template. That isn't all that hard, and it doesn't change the placement of the images as long as the images come after that line/paragraph, on the same line. If you are curious what our plans are for the addbelow parameter, you can see an example here. I have talked about this many times before with many people and they all agree that since the current result can be replicated without the parameter, but the proposed usage of the addbelow parameter cannot be achieved right now, there isn't really a reason not to change it. Jeancey (talk) 20:10, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

Seems useful. Might it be possible to create a new parameter for that function though? —Legoless (talk) 20:13, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

There was a talk of AddAfter, but it made more sense to repurpose a parameter that wasn't really serving a function that needed to be served. I have looked, extensively, and I haven't been able to find any instances where the addbelow parameter was formatting in a way that was any different to moving the sentence to the same line immediately after the template. That's all the code does, so it makes sense that just moving the sentence out of the template and repurposing the parameter would be the easiest course of action. If you have an example where the addbelow parameter is required for the layout or formatting, I would love to see it. I just haven't been able to find one myself. Jeancey (talk) 20:21, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

On Online:The Chill Hollow it could be used to move the sentence about the frost atronach to the first line, while keeping the interior image where it is. Could be done a different way of course. —Legoless (talk) 21:04, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

I've never seen an addbelow that needed to used. Every instance could have been done without it. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:13, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

The chill hollow does have that sentence on the first line and the image is where it should. Are you seeing something that I am not? Maybe different layout in a different browser or something? Jeancey (talk) 21:18, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

Just for the record, I started the change with {{Online Place Summary}}, since it wasn't being used by anything in its traditional sense by that template, as a means to put alternate names before the description, as mentioned with Reaper's March. It also became useful for a bit of disambiguation as on Mages Guild (Alcaire Castle). The way it works is by reading the input, checking whether or not it starts with a comma, then applying spacing as necessary. --Enodoc (talk) 21:44, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

I was talking about this version. —Legoless (talk) 21:59, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

(←) Going off on a bit of a tangent, should we consider getting rid of the forced-first-sentence structure entirely? Yes, it brings consistency to the first sentence of an article, but by my count, we're currently using four different parameters (five for ESO) to achieve that "consistency", and forcing ourselves to use the description as part of the first sentence, which may not always be what we want. I'm not sure if changing it is necessarily what we want in the long run, either, but I thought I'd float the idea. If we do, it wouldn't be hard for the bot to go through and add a first sentence that replicates the description and related parameters. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 22:07, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

We could do an optional one. It uses the description the other parameter isn't present, or the first sentence parameter if it is present. That would certainly make it easier to implement. Jeancey (talk) 22:09, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

Just to confirm, as I have been moving any text from the addbelow= to the bottom line of the header any time I see it on pages. Is this still to be done? Biffa (talk) 18:22, 30 July 2014 (GMT)

Dunmer joining the Imperial Legion (Skyrim)

Hello there, about the issue of Morrowind not being part of Empire anymore, there is a random event in Skyrim that a dunmer(s) are going to Solitude to join the Imperial Legion to fight in the civil war and the Dunmer in Windhelm's gray quarter, Ambarys Rendar is a legionaire or at least was one, well i think these events are enough proofs that Morrowind is still working with the Empire. 189.60.87.146 05:01, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

There is nothing saying all Dunmer are from morrowind, or that all dunmer in morrowind consider themselves not part of the empire. There are plenty of dunmer born in other provinces (like skyrim) who join the legion, just as there are still High Elves in the legion itself, for instance Legate Fasendil. Just because a race is in the legion doesn't mean that province is part of the empire. We have good sources that say the Empire pulled out of Morrowind, and the morrowind leadership declared that they were no longer part of the empire. Jeancey (talk) 05:04, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

Well i believe that is ambiguous then since we don't know for sure if Morrowind share the same vision of the Stormcloaks, that the Empire died when they signed the peace treaty with the Thalmor, so the Empire lost 6 provinces then. If Morrowind did really leave the Empire after the great war, that means that they only possess 3 provinces, that is realy a big decline for the Empire. 189.60.87.146 05:11, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

They didn't just lose them overnight, nor entirely. The treaty lost them some, then most of hammerfall left because they were still fighting the Thalmor, but parts near Cyrodiil were still controlled by people loyal to the empire. I think that the empire would claim they control Black Marsh, Cyrodiil, Hammerfall, High Rock and Skyrim, but half of skyrim and most of hammerfall isn't under their control. Morrowind left because they sensed the empire was weak, plus they had more problems at home with the red year. There really isn't a question that Morrowind left. The total excision of House Hlaalu, the house closest to the empire, makes that very clear. Jeancey (talk) 05:18, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

Just to jump in, they no longer control Black Marsh either, it was lost after the Oblivion Crisis. —Legoless (talk) 14:15, 2 August 2014 (GMT)

Oops--thanks!

Hey, thanks for the catch with that icon name. I should know better than to upload while tired :P. ⇠eshe^talk 16:03, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

No problem! You might want to check the others to see if they were added in DB. I know the reikling hut was, but some of the other pots may be as well, and obviously you can't always tell from the name or the picture. :) There might not be any others, but you never know! Jeancey (talk) 16:05, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

Yeah, I'm in the middle of redoing the Containers page at the moment...it's usually pretty easy to tell by the model name, but I'll definitely be double-checking as I go! ⇠eshe^talk 16:08, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for the quick fixes!

Thanks for the fixes on automatons! I appreciate the little changes for things like redirects (which are better because those other pages could change) and the template fixes for the books. Cheers! ∬(RisingDusk)dxdy 23:02, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

Spaced-out Anchors

Do the spaced anchors fail randomly or how does that work? I've never heard of an anchor failing. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 00:39, 9 August 2014 (GMT)

I haven't figured it out either, and it may be a browser specific thing. It doesn't happen all the time with spaced out anchors, but almost always when an anchor fails it is either spelled wrong or there is a space in it, and adding the underscore always fixes it. It could be another issue that is fixed just by editing it or something, but I'm fairly sure the space is causing. Again, not every anchor with a space is broken, but sometimes it does. I have no idea why. Jeancey (talk) 03:42, 9 August 2014 (GMT)

Nede Revamp

Hi, I recently finished my first draft of the Nede article revamp and I'd like an Admin to go through it maybe give some tips on what to improve before it can be posted on the wiki. I'm not exactly proud of it I wrote most of it half asleep, and I've yet to finish the reference section. But I think I've got the basic idea down pat. You can find it at User:StormySkies/Sandbox1--StormySkies (talk) 11:39, 10 August 2014 (GMT)

I can see you!

Yes, us poor non-patroller types actually can see the revision-deleted block. We just need to know where to look. (RH) 24.246.12.229 03:54, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Guild Trader Names

I was looking at the guild traders in Mournhold and I couldn't find the name "Mourner's Market" anywhere. Am I cracking up or have they removed the names of the individual markets? —Legoless (talk) 19:25, 15 August 2014 (GMT)

Of the several flags, only one of them actually had the name. I completely missed it the first time. I think it might only show up from the right angle. I think it might have been the one nearest the gate out of Mournhold, but I'm not 100% on that. The other flags didn't have any name attached. Jeancey (talk) 20:44, 15 August 2014 (GMT)

That might be it. I'll check some of the others tomorrow. —Legoless (talk) 20:54, 15 August 2014 (GMT)

I think I've gotten all the AD and EP ones. It is the DC ones that I am missing. Jeancey (talk) 01:19, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

Okay, I was able to find the name in Mournhold, so no worries. I could do a run-through of the DC traders if we need it. —Legoless (talk) 19:06, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

I'll get to it eventually. I don't have a real DC character, just a low level one I use for running around. Level 6 I think she is. But I'm working my way through the EP questlines, I have most of Stonefalls and Shadowfen done, I could easily do Deshaan if I wanted. I should get to it in the next few weeks or so. Jeancey (talk) 20:31, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

Question (2)

Why when I edit a quest page the quest description vanishes from here? How can I stop that from happening? Lorenut (talk) 17:07, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

It is just a caching issue. Either wait, or perform a null edit on the quest page. i.e. just edit the page and click save without doing anything. That will recache the values, and the description will appear again. Jeancey (talk) 17:09, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

Crap! I was hoping I'd fixed that issue entirely. Lorenut: Were you editing using the regular or mobile servers at the time? I just want to be sure I didn't miss rolling out the supposed fix somewhere. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 19:19, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

I was using the regular one. So this has been a long time issue? Lorenut (talk) 19:36, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

I noticed it sometimes too. I was guessing a cache bug or something but I found it weird when you can see it right and after a edit the description dissapears. Moinante (talk) 19:55, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

It is because the page changed, it recognized that happened and it doesn't use the old value it had stored. This isn't exactly what happens, but it is a good way to think about it. This has happened the entire 1.75 years I've been on the wiki. It isn't gone, it just isn't displaying. RH, did you rewrite the templates at all? It is possible that it is the way Quest Link and Place Link are written is causing the issue still? Jeancey (talk) 20:21, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

I don't think that the template writing could be at fault here. I had thought it had to do with the way MetaTemplate was written, in that it used the read database for some things and the write database for others. This was, I believe, causing some incorrect data to get loaded due to very slight delays in copying information between the two. I switched the entire save process to use only the write database, even just for #loads. I'm pretty sure using to was part of the problem, as I did a bunch of edits earlier that I would've thought would've been problematic and not a single one caused any issues. Unfortunately, if Lorenut is still getting blank info showing up, it means that either that's not the issue at all or there are multiple issues coming into play. Oh joy.

And for the record, it wasn't always like this. It used to work fine. Then it broke sometime after Nephele, who created MetaTemplate, disappeared. Nobody else on the wiki is as versed in PHP as she was, so when the problem cropped up, nobody was able to fix it. I'm starting to poke at her code now and wrap my head around it, but obviously, there's still something I'm missing. There could be caching issues involved as well—I've seen that in other testing that I've done—so for now, I think I'm going to call it as close to fixed as I can readily get it. No point messing about with code that might well work fine if there's some unrelated problem causing the whole thing. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:39, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

Well RobinHood get ready for some joy. I'm still getting blanks after editing. Lorenut (talk) 20:42, 16 August 2014 (GMT)

sorry (2)

I'm sorry if I'm making you chase me around haha. I always think I'm done, but then I find out I missed something. Lorenut (talk) 18:37, 17 August 2014 (GMT)