Skyrim talk:Survival Mode

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Discussion moved to Skyrim talk:Disease#Survival Mode

Add specific changes from survival to article?[edit]

There have been several additions, both to races and armor. Perhaps they should be mentioned on this page? Specifically a list of which armors categorized by warmth, and details about the stages of sleep deprivation, hunger and cold effects + the 24 hour penalties if you let each reach the minimum. I was also considering adding a few tips for survival, namely how raising disposition can provide a free bed in most areas, how the ring of Namira is useful for feeding and how vampirism allows you to keep hunger in check. --SkyHiRider (talk) 07:26, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead! —Legoless (talk) 18:25, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

New data implementation[edit]

I'm currently working on adding data from the Survival Mode, I'm wondering how to implement it, such as hunger values, should they be added to the existing tables, or should it be added to a separate page? It's probably easier to just add them to existing tables, but I'm not sure if that would possibly upset people (there's a lot of controversy surrounding the whole Creation Kit business etc.). What do you think? Any specific suggestions if not adding to existing pages/tables? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 17:19, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

You could design a template for every creation, an about page that lists all changes, quests and new abilities and use that template for everything. I presume each hunger stage has a spell id, so it could be listed in the new "spells" section that was added by the creation. But was considering making a table myself a few months ago, but decided to only add the extreme values as footnotes instead. --SkyHiRider (talk) 17:43, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm not that template savvy unfortunately, that task will befall someone else if that is the best way to go ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 19:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Werewolf / Vampire Lord cold resistance[edit]

This has been marked as a question that needs to be answered.

I ran a few tests on these forms in frigid temperatures outside Castle Volkihar (modded PS4 game using a hybrid glitch to allow both forms). In glass armor my character went from Warm to Chilly in about 80 seconds. In both Werewolf and Vampire Lord form it took about half that time; it was similar in human form without any clothes/armor.

Progressing through the cold stages I found that movement speed was affected in the two forms and the blue screen tint appeared. However, health did not decline. After resuming human form it took a few seconds for health to update, but then it would drop. (Incidentally, I learned that for humans health declines in smaller jumps, not in stages depending on your cold level) In human form, my character eventually dies of cold. This didnt affect Vampire Lords; I suspect the same for Werewolves, but I eventually shifted back. As a Freezing human, changing to Beast or Vampire Lord form restores full health for as long as you’re in that form.

I ran these tests with my vampire and werewolf mods both on and off with no difference. That said, could someone with an unmodded game confirm these results? If the results match, the description in the main article is incorrect.

Conclusions: When you change forms you lose all your protective gear and will move through the cold stages as though your character were naked, but your health won’t fall so you won’t die. Changing shape in a cold environment can be deadly if you can’t find warmth before shifting back, but it can save your life if you’re close to freezing to death.Gwydion (talk) 20:40, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

I did not run a test, but noticed that I could not die of cold while in Vampire Lord form in a vanilla game. So I would say your observations are spot on. Think I even made a small edit when survival came out noting it on the page. --SkyHiRider (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
I’ll consider that partially confirmed and update the main page accordingly.Gwydion (talk) 12:48, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Survival Detail Problem[edit]

Well, I just discovered you can't edit Creation Club scripts with the Creation Kit, which is going to mean getting exact effects are going to be harder, if even possible. Guess I'll have to fire up the game and see if I can't determine things through console commands. Sigh. -Caraamon (talk) 18:01, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Adding Mod Info to other Pages[edit]

Why are details specific to this mod being added to other wiki pages? Is there actually an official policy on these 'Creations' that govern where their content belongs? I ran into a bunch of stuff listed for this on the Races page, and it really struck me as being out of place. 22:58, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

That's like asking why Dawnguard, Dragonborn, or Hearthfire information can be found on pages unrelated to those mods. Your choice of words reveals your bias; creations are official content whether anyone likes it or not. The only policy that governs creations is the policy on adding official content to the pages that are affected. The unofficial stance follows the precedent set by the smaller Oblivion DLC, in that the larger ones (eg Wizards Tower) have parts incorporated into the pages they affect, but the smaller ones are mostly self-contained (eg Mehrunes Razor). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:30, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
I understand you're on a platform that's new to the modding community, but it's important to realize that, while yes, as you pedantically pointed out on the other page, DLC/Expansions etc are 'mods' in that they are modifications, there's a pretty longstanding community for these games stretching back well over a decade that attaches distinct meanings to the words 'mod' 'dlc' etc - you're not doing yourself any favors by pretending that that kind of context doesn't matter when choosing your own words. As to your strangely self-righteous comment about bias: I'd never pretend not to be biased - bias is an inescapable fact of life, the challenge isn't to avoid it, but to manage it. Your vehement and aggressive defense of this content's inclusion globally in the wiki likewise reveals your own bias, and, just like mine: that doesn't actually matter.
Can we move on to actual productive discussion, now?
You did make your opinion clear on the other talk page, but it's probably good to get it here, too, for the record and larger discussion. I'd also like to hear what others have to say. As the Creation Club gets more popular and Bethesda starts putting more things out through it, (and considering the eventual release of TES VI, where it will likely be much more thoroughly integrated) it would be good for the wiki to arrive at an official policy regarding CC mods explicitly. Please do not bother pointing out (again) what the 'only policy' currently is; the wonderful thing about policies is that new ones can be implemented when (and if) the situation demands.
'Creations' are not official DLC or expansions, and the Creation Club page avoids ever using the phrase 'official' to describe them, stopping at assurances that they will be compatible with official content. Instead, they currently occupy a strange grey space between traditional official content and unofficial mods - I believe that this is potentially a reason to carefully consider how they should be handled. Despite my own bias, I'm not entirely opposed to their inclusion in global documentation, though it seems extremely out of place right now (but probably won't in the future, as the community adapts to its existence and it becomes the primary method of deployment for new DLC with future BGS games); I just think there should be a policy that addresses these explicitly. 03:52, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
Two input two eurocents of my own, it is the current de jure policy to treat Creation Club content as no different from any other official content, which can be seen on pages such as Lore:Forelhost, Skyrim:Stony Creek Cave, and Dragonborn:The Retching Netch. Going back further, the situation can be viewed as analogous to the older Oblivion and Morrowind addons, which are also integrated into the main gamespace as per Oblivion:The Sea Tub Clarabella and Morrowind:Hlormaren. Based on this, it seems clear that official content, no matter how small the download, is to be integrated into the main gamespace. Fullertontalk﴿ 07:32, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
My "opinion" is entirely formed from my 6 years editing on this site, which has plenty of experience in dealing with mods. You asked if there is an official policy, then you have a go at me for pointing out what the state of things is. Of course policies can change, they are afterall supposed to be a reflection of the communities thoughts and opinions at large, but the talk page of a singular "mod" is not the page to debate introducing a new policy, or for the details of such a policy to be discussed. The wording on a particular page plays no part in the actual status of something, Creations are endorsed and considered official by Bethesda and that's the end of the matter, without an explicit new policy on our part that creates a distinction that does not otherwise exist. Frankly it isn't our place to decide that something considered official by Bethesda is not official game content. You can argue all you want, but try that on the Community Portal where you might get some sympathy, and maybe even agreement. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:20, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict) As both Silencer and Fullerton have pointed out, there already is explicit consensus on Creation Club's integration into Skyrim namespace on the basis that Creations are official releases, not "mods". Bethesda has specifically moved away from the concept of paid mods and this is the result - hiring community creators to participate in the development of official microtransactions. Claiming that Creations are for some reason not official releases is revealing of a serious lack of knowledge on the topic when we have developer quotes literally calling them official releases.
UESP's purpose is "to provide information about all of the Elder Scrolls games and the world in which those games are set", so the inclusion of official content in our articles really should not come as a surprise to you. —Legoless (talk) 18:28, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Carry weight bug with vampirism[edit]

On xbox one with latest patch, if you turn into a vampire you are hit with a bug that zaps your carry weight back down to 150 base from any number of level ups to stamina on survival mode. Wrath425 (talk) 02:42, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Update, after testing it seems to have something to do with changing into the Vampire race and it reseting carry weight back to base, so unfortunately if you want to keep your level ups into carry weight you will either not be a vampire or become one before leveling up. Wrath425 (talk) 03:39, 4 June 2019 (UTC)