Lore talk:Void

Are the Void and the Darkness same ting?

Reading together the third edition pocket guide, The Monomyth, The Book of Daedra, and Spirit of the Daedra, I think "the Void" is also called "the Darkness", the space left in between the realms of substance, where no interplay between the cosmic forces of creation or other stimulae exists, and it is where immortal spirits are thought to be banished when defeated.

Does that sound about right? I could be dead wrong, mostly because I'm not sure various sources are talking about the same place or concept when they mention "the void". If it's correct, I'm just suggesting the page say the Void's also called "the Darkness". Minor Edits 02:24, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, when I first read about the Void extensively for a week back in 2008 (I had one of my brief Absolute Nerd weeks) I drew a final conclusion that I've kept ever since: the Void is not a single place, but many. That it is a name applied to that outside of the known realms. That's just my opinion and conclusion, however. But, as for "the Darkness" I ran across that in my readings a few times, just as you did. I'll go ahead and add that to the page. There, I added it. I figured I'd let someone else add the reference, as I have to clean up the Nirn page.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 02:35, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I may be wrong but...

The page refers to Sithis and Padomay as separate beings. My understanding is that Sithis and Padomay are just different names for the same being. Am I wrong or should the article be edited? --71.17.19.249 01:07, 4 September 2012 (EDT)

The subject you're referring to has been discussed here. You're free to expand on your opinion, of course. -- Kertaw48 (talk) 09:52, 6 September 2012 (EDT)

Nineteen Voids

Not sure why the inclusion of this is being disputed, even if it is an out-of-game source. "Or with Mehrunes Dagon. Do not speak his name to me again. The Master of Scum. The pawn of every Prince of true power, the dupe of every schemer in the Nineteen Voids." "I find it amusing that you believe him gone forever. He may never return to this realm, but he still walks the voids of Oblivion. " The Void is mentioned in a plural form in this text, and there's no way the 'nineteen' voids could be anything separate. —Legoless (talk) 16:15, 13 April 2014 (GMT)

The Void

Is the Void a space of nothingness? Where there is no light, objects, worlds etc? Also, is it true that if someone got into the Void they would perish? DG^#:) 22:31, 21 November 2014 (GMT)

Void vs. Oblivion

This article mentions that the term Void can be used to mean Oblivion, but it says that that definition is a limited capacity compared to the other, implied to be more common and more definitive/encompassing, variant referring to a separate realm/dimension entirely. From all the sources on this page, only The Monomyth and Verandis Ravenwatch's dialogue seem to imply that the Void is separate, and in ways that can certainly be argued against the conclusion reached by this page. I'll be honest, I don't think the Void is anything separate from Oblivion. Mindtrait0r (talk) 15:49, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

The Void is as described: a nothingness outside all the known realms. The realms of Oblivion lie within that Void, like endless islands. We know that the spirits of banished Daedra end up in the Void and have to find their way back to their home in Oblivion (source). Verandis Ravenwatch is our latest and best source on the Void and cannot be discounted as you are suggesting. This is a nuanced topic and cannot be replaced with "Void = Oblivion". —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:40, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

That source is one of my primary reasons to think that Void = Oblivion. The term 'the Darkness' is used there, which means Void I think, and is equated to the Waters of Oblivion, pretty definitively stating that the Darkness referred to is a plane/place within Oblivion. The book "The Waters of Oblivion" also seems to make this connection, equating the Void / the Darkness / the Waters of Oblivion. I'm not suggesting we discount Ravenwatch - far from it. What I am pointing out is that he never directly says that the Void isn't Oblivion, and sorta dances around that conclusion with delicate wording that requires a good deal of assumption to infer that the Void isn't Oblivion.

"A piece of land sundered from the Reach, caught between Mundus and Oblivion. It is both and neither. Outside the grasp of Bal, or any Prince for that matter." - This one is interesting, and it does seem to imply some kind of relationship between Grayhaven and Oblivion that isn't so simple, but he still says that it is 'both'. The Mundus part is obviously the fact that it is a pocket of land from the Reach, but for it to 'be' Oblivion is another thing.

"He's building a bridge through the Void. The Oblivion shard serves as a lodestone to point to his destination, but Coldharbour is precisely the place he would want to avoid." - This one reads to me as the opposite of Void =/= Oblivion; it seems to me this says they are the same. Why even mention Coldharbor and avoiding it if it wasn't a place that could feasibly be reached, i.e. the bridge is in Oblivion. And the Oblivion anchor is notable in name. Mindtrait0r (talk) 19:14, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Oblivion is in the Void. However, Grayhaven is not in Oblivion. It is cast adrift, somewhere outside of that. As Vicente Valtieri poetically put it: "Sithis is the darkness of time immemorial. He is no Daedra, and dwells not in the realm of Oblivion. No, Sithis is something altogether... different." —⁠Legoless (talk) 20:14, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, the Void in various contexts clearly distinguishes itself from Oblivion. The conflation of the two come from the close link between Padomay/Sithis and the Daedra, and the Monomyth even writes home about this connection while still acknowledging them as separate. "The Daedra were created at this time also, being spirits and Gods more attuned to Oblivion, or that realm closer to the Void of Padomay." Dcking20 (talk) 20:42, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

In the Monomyth's case, isn't Padomay the Void in question? So not as much of a place as a being, which Oblivion more closely imitated, i.e. the Princes being called the Padomaics and Oblivion's being referred to as the Void. Mindtrait0r (talk) 20:45, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Ehh, the Monomyth as a whole is a mess of a book. Primarily because its claims one thing and then contradicts itself right after. Also, the whole "Anuic vs Padomaic" dichotomy attributed to the Aedra and Daedra comes from the Anuad (not the Monomyth) which is an isolated creation myth unattributed to any of the races of Tamriel and regarded as heretical by some (see the PGTE).

There is no in-universe conflation of Oblivion with the primal Void (as in, the one associated with Sithis/Padomay and Namira). What might cause confusion is the fact that Oblivion is sometimes referred to as the "Second Void", as seen in this Loremaster's Archive, which draws a clear distinction between the two. Oddly enough, despite the fact that the text is obviously referencing Oblivion, it still links to the Void article instead. - ColovianHastur (talk) 02:26, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

That's from a user-submitted question. I wouldn't rely on it as a primary source. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

(←) Thanks for the replies everyone, this is cleared up for me now. Mindtrait0r (talk) 13:04, 17 May 2023 (UTC)