Lore talk:Morrowind

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Grammar issues (moved paragraph)[edit]

Gross grammatical issues in the last paragraph of "history". I'd fix it but I can't even understand what it's SUPPOSED to say. 32.159.68.39 17:33, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

I see what you mean. Moved the paragraph here:

Another threat arose with the expansion of Tiber Septim's empire, and the awakening of Dagoth Ur. Tiber Septim demanded Morrowind have a representative of him, so he had some direct control. This representative was Queen Barenziah. During the The Arnesian War, one of the many during The Imperial Simulacrum. This war pitted Morrowind against Black Marsh, and sent Queen Barenziah fleeing into Wayrest in High Rock. Her uncle Athyn Llethan, a House Hlaalu noble. This would only be remedied with the reincarnation of Indoril Nerevar. Through all these changes, Morrowind has been known as Resdayn (Resdaynia), Veloth, Dwemereth, and Dunmereth, and in the last two Eras, Morrowind.

— Unsigned comment by Temple-Zero (talkcontribs) at 18:18 on 5 January 2009

Notable Places[edit]

Is "Notable Places" solely the areas that have been addressed by the Oblivion map of Morrowind? Are large cities such as Port Telvannis, Firewatch, and Kragenmoor not "notable?" Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 12:54, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Port Telvannis probably warrants a mention, the others seem rather minor, but I'd have to research that a little to know for sure.Temple-Zero 13:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)
The others are certainly not "minor."
See Kragenmoor and Firewatch.
The only reason to not list them as "notable places" is if there is some paradigmatic rationale as to what is notable, like only the cities on the Oblivion map being listed. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 16:33, 5 January 2009 (EST)
If you want to add them, go for it. But it's not the "Oblivion" map - it's simply the most recent map available from Bethesda's site. Both Firewatch and Kragenmoor are on the original Arena Map so there's a definite argument for listing them. –RpehTCE 16:48, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Moved from history[edit]

It is known that in the early years of the Fourth Era, shortly after the succession of Black Marsh and Elseweyr,the Ministry of Truth, in Vivec, became unstable. Vuhon created an ingenium to keep the ancient meteor stable, harnessing the power of Umbra. But, Umbra somehow escaped, causing the collapse of the Ministry of Truth. It crashed down into the Temple Canton, completely destroying Vivec, along with much of the island of Vvardenfell. Many of it's citizens were killed, and Morrowind was left in dissaray. Noting the weakness of the province, the Argonian armies of Black Marsh moved north and conquered the province. Jplatinum16 04:14, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Although a tad weirdly worded, everything in this paragraph is correct and accurate with the lore. –Elliot talk 05:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Capital[edit]

Ever since I got involved with TES, and especially Morrowind, I've heard many, many conflicting reports on which city is the capital of Morrowind: Mournhold or Almalexia. With the recent edit I'm forced to ask this question officially now. -- kertaw48 22:27, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

:Mournhold is. But Mournhold is inside Almalexia. Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 22:31, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I think Almalexia is the capital then. Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 22:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
It's some typical lore-fudging. Best guess is that Mournhold is inside Almalexia, but that Mournhold has become a term that encompasses the whole. It's like "London". Technically London consists of about one square mile of land, but even people like me who live in Kent are considered part of London for most purposes. rpeh •TCE 22:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
According to the PGE, Almalexia is officially considered the capital. I think it should be listed as such, as Mournhold could almost be considered a large district. --Legoless 13:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Main Land[edit]

I was wondering, if much of Vvardenfell was destroyed, then what about the mainland. Is it still in habited or was it also damaged? Also, with Morrowind in such disarray, is it still an official province with no Tribunal?— Unsigned comment by TaleGunner (talkcontribs) at 01:24 on 4 October 2011

To my knowledge, these things were never specified. However, we can make an educated guess that because Vvardenfell and the Dunmer race have been mostly decimated (according to Lord of Souls, the second TES novel, most of the Dunmer now live on Solsthiem) that this makes Morrowind a relatively useless nation; effectively, it is no longer a province. I assume that the mainland has been ruined at least partially due to the fact that the Dunmer were driven to Solsthiem. Perhaps the new novel will touch base on this. I've yet to read the 50-page preview and my copy will arrive in a few days. Once I get through the novel, I'll begin updating the Book and Lore namespaces. I suppose an official answer will have to wait until someone who has read LoS can answer the question, or until we have played Skyrim.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 03:15, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Head of State[edit]

I was just wondering- if the Argonians took over Morrowind, wouldn't the current head-of-state be the An-Xileel, instead of the (now seemingly defunct) Tribunal? I doubt that they're running the scenes much anymore.--71.200.129.183 00:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, first off the An-Xileel only had control of Lilmoth, and that was before Umbriel came along. I doubt seriously that even they made it through that. But even if that wasn't the case, there is nothing to suggest that the An-Xileel ever controlled Morrowind, or that, presuming they did, they still do. In all, though Morrowind still has some semblance of government in at least a few places (such as Mournhold), I don't see any evidence to suggest that this government is the An-Xileel. --Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 01:19, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Barenziah[edit]

Would the Biography of Barenziah or The Real Barenziah be good sources for some historical events if any are found in the texts? We have some short sentences about Queen Barenziah and King Helseth but the article doesn't even mention the history of Kings or Queens or the significance of their history or the title's history (which I don't even know is why I came to this page in the first). Has there always been Kings/Queens or was that a new thing? — Unsigned comment by Hope (talkcontribs) at 17:17 on 13 August 2012

I think I remember some in-game dialogue from Morrowind or Tribunal saying that the title of king was a new title taken from ancient sources (some sort of "leader of all tribes", unrelated to Hortator). This, of course, directly clashes with the introduction of The Real Barenziah which claims that Kings and Queens existed in Morrowind's pre-Septim period. This introduction also mentions that much of Morrowind was laid to waste, while almost all other accounts suggest that the Tribunal acquiesced quickly without major conflicts. We also have to keep in mind that both the Biography of Barenziah and The Real Barenziah are originally from Daggerfall, which could decrease their veracity and importance to newer sources. -- kertaw48 18:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Districts[edit]

Does anyone know the source for the names of the districts Velothis, Narsis, Mournhold, Deshaan and Telvannis? I've been looking through things and all I can find with those names are mods and mod concepts. --Enodoc (talk) 23:42, 13 February 2013 (GMT)

The Pocket Guide to the Empire mentions Narsis, Mournhold and Deshaan. They aren't listed on the lore pages as the names of those districts though, just as actual places. We don't really know the names of the specific districts except for Vvardenfell. Jeancey (talk) 23:52, 13 February 2013 (GMT)
OK, cool, so we have those names for places. They are listed as districts on this article though, under Geography (in addition to them being under Notable Places):
Enodoc (talk) 00:20, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
There may be some in-game dialogue referencing them. I'm not 100% to be honest. Jeancey (talk) 00:22, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
I tried a search in the CSList for all the additional five districts and found nothing. There is, however, a reference that the Imperial province of Morrowind is divided into six districts. The division that Enodoc has quoted looks a lot like the division made by Tamriel Rebuilt. If that's the source, I'm pretty sure it's not canon. -- Kertaw48 (talk) 13:30, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
Ok, I just spoke to someone from Tamriel Rebuilt, and it looks like they chose them based off the most important feature of the area. This being the case, it is unlikely that they are, in fact, canon. The only districts that we know of for sure are Vvardenfell and now Solstheim. There ARE six districts there, technically, as the imperial province of Morrowind that is referred to there doesn't include Solstheim, which is a relatively new addition to Morrowind. I would suggest removing just the names of the districts, and leaving the part about it being split into seven districts, as that is definitely canon. Jeancey (talk) 15:47, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
Ok, I have done a little more digging and I have found some vague references. We know that the district of Vvardenfell is administrated by a Duke, in this case Vedam Dren. In the book The Wolf Queen, v1, Pelagius mentioned that his sister, Amiel is due to be married to the "Duke of Narsis". Then, in 2920, Last Seed, there is reference to Indoril Brindisi Dorom the Duke-Prince of Mournhold. Then, later in that same book, Cassyr says that he was fighting for Vivec and the Duke of Mournhold against the Imperial Army, a "traitor to my people". At the end of the book mentions that is was "the Duke of Mournhold representing Morrowind" in the negotiations. The 2920 series of books makes many mentions of the Duke, in Sun's Dusk, Sun's Height and Morning Star among others. Then in a trade house notice in Seyda Need it says that it is a decree by "Sovereign King Hlaalu Athyn Llethan, by the Grace of All Gods, King of Morrowind, Duke of Mournhold and Hlaalu Province." Reference to Llethan as the "King of Morrowind and Duke of Mournhold" also appears in the Telvanni Hospitality Papers, strengthening the claim that that is one of the districts. In Lore:Palla, it is said that someone is discussing "diplomatic appointments to Balmora with the Duke of Rimfarlin". There is no other mention of where Rimfarlin is, but we know where Balmora is, so it COULD be a district of Morrowind. That's all the mentions of Dukes I can find, but I'll keep digging. There IS a pretty strong case that Mournhold is one of the provinces, and a mild case for Narsis being another. If that were the case, and all the districts are named after their main cities, then the other districts could be Telvannis (after Port Telvannis), Blacklight (after the Redoran city of Blacklight) and Tear (after the Dres city of Tear). But that would be pure speculation. Jeancey (talk) 16:15, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
I'm Back! :P I have found mention of Two more districts. In the book Great Houses of Morrowind it mentions that Indoril and Dres have no holdings in Vvardenfell, that they administer the Indoril and Dres districts, respectively, and lays out where those districts are located. The Indoril District overlaps Almalexia, the Dres district would be the Tear district I described above. That, coupled with the fact that Llethan is described as Duke of Mournhold and Hlaalu Province, The names of the districts could easily be taken from the names of the houses that administer them. Telvanni District (Telvannis), Redoran District (Blacklight), Hlaalu District (Mournhold), Indoril District (Almalexia), and Dres District (Tear). Jeancey (talk) 16:25, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

() I really should have done this all at once. The book War of the First Council mentions that the Nord and Orc clans invading Morrowind had great success in the northern half, in the "Redoran, Vvardenfell, and Telvanni Districts". I think we have our names. :) Jeancey (talk) 16:35, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

(edit conflict) I concur to that effect. That's some great digging you did there :) That would easily make six; one for each house on the mainland, plus Vvardenfell. (And now seven with Solstheim.) --Enodoc (talk) 16:38, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
Yep. :) It is very possible that they all have specific names, like Mournhold, Narsis, etc, but we don't have names for them. I say we just use the House names. Jeancey (talk) 16:41, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
So, the Great Houses of Morrowind name the Indoril and Dres districts and The War of the First Council names the Redoran and Telvanni districts. Coupled with the fact that in-game dialogue mentions 6 districts in total (along with Vvardenfell), it's reasonable to conclude the missing district would be Hlaalu. Nice work. I guess this answers the question and we can edit and reference the article appropriately. However, I'm not sure if this division by districts still applies in 4E 201. -- Kertaw48 (talk) 16:49, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
Well, we know that the Telvanni, Redoran and Indoril districts are relatively unharmed and they are all still great houses. House Hlaalu has been replaced by the House Sadras, so it is reasonable to assume that they just took over Hlaalu's district. The only iffy bit here is Dres, which is occupied, at least somewhat, by Argonian invaders from Blackmarsh. We can always just say that these are the "traditional districts" of Morrowind. Jeancey (talk) 16:54, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

Game-specific limitations on architecture[edit]

I'm concerned that at least some of details on Morrowind architecture are incorporating some game limitations as lore concepts. In particular, "Another style, with ornate stone buildings, was common on mainland Morrowind in the Second Era. The city of Mournhold was still built in that style in the Third Era". In my prowl for TES news, I found this topic. I think "ihavefivehat" has a good point there that it's likely the ESO devs simply did not want to make several different architectural styles for mainland Morrowind. The "Indoril style" being common across mainland Morrowind may not be something we want to assert here. Insignificant RevisionsThreatsEvidence 02:38, 18 May 2015 (GMT)

Since I was the one who wrote about the styles, it would be fitting for me to respond to that.
You're actually partially right about this. Back in the days when I was a TES Wikia reader, I took part in their event when they passed some people's questions to the developers. I managed to ask a question why all the cities in Morrowind were built in this "Indoril" style (although bear in mind that there is no evidence of it actually being the Indoril, and only Indoril, style). They answered, in a very convoluted way, that indeed, gameplay-wise it was done to avoid making at least 4 different sets of buildings an furniture, and lore-wise the reason was that the architecture was very different hundreds of years before Morrowind (although, at the time of ESO, Ald'ruhn is already established in the Emperor Crab shell, which may suggest that the Morrowind styles may already exist somewhere, for example in Vvardenfell).
That being said, I'd be opposed to the idea that the styles may be present in Stonefalls and Deshaan at the time of ESO and "we just don't see them". Games are the primary source of lore, and while there are things that can - and even must - be explained by gameplay limitations (for example, the heightmap of Cyrodiil in Oblivion and ESO not being 100% identical), I think that saying that, for example, Narsis looks like Balmora in 2E 582, and it only looks like Mournhold in-game because of gameplay limitations, would be way over the top. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 12:25, 18 May 2015 (GMT)
Something else to consider is that (aside from Narsis), it may be a mostly viable statement anyway. Every major settlement in Deshaan or Stonefalls (aside from Narsis) is either Indoril or Dres, and we have never really seen Indoril or Dres architecture before. It's also possible that Indoril and Dres architecture are based on the same base designs, and so may not look very different from each other. --Enodoc (talk) 14:31, 18 May 2015 (GMT)