Lore talk:Boziikkodstrun

Age

Which part of the book "Daedra Dossier: The Titans" actually suggests that the first Titan emerged from chaotic creatia between 2E578 and 2E582? Having read the book, I actually get the impression that the first Titan was much more ancient than that. — Unsigned comment by Feynn (talk • contribs) at 00:48 on 20 September 2015‎

Sources on the subject seem to be somewhat contradictory. The conclusion you mentioned was probably inferred from the sentence: Its strength was unparalleled, its savagery remarkable even among the war-slaves of Molag Bal, with "war" referring to the Planemeld and "slaves" referring to the Soul Shriven. However, the second paragraph refers to the Planemeld as "upcoming", which would contradict that interpretation. The book states that the Planemeld would be the first time the Titans would be sent to Tamriel. However, in Craglorn, one can meet Aetherion, an experimental Celestial from the First Era in the form of an ethereal Titan. Moreover, this book from yet unreleased Wrothgar describes a Titan that ravaged southern Wrothgar in the days after the fall of the first Orsinium, which happened in 1E 980. Basing on these sources, it's rather clear that the Dossier is partially wrong, the Titans date back at least to the First Era, and they probably visited Tamriel before the Planemeld. I'm going to make some edits to reflect this. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 04:36, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I see Aetherion as more of an oversight than anything. The Titans being released in Cyrodiil is also mentioned in the Emperor's Guide, and the Endless Stair was only built by the Mad Architect after the Soulburst. That contradictory book from Wrothgar is a bit troublesome, but the logical creation date should still be noted somewhere on the page. I'll add a note for now explaining the discrepancy. —Legoless (talk) 12:14, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the Note

What evidence do we have that says the Endless Stair was constructed after the Soulburst? For all we know the Endless Stair and the structure that would eventually house a portal to the Planar Vortex were built long before Varen's mistake. We're never given any dates on that as far as I know. The Planar Vortex itself was formed by the Great Shackle during the Planemeld, but how do we know the gateway didn't exist before it formed?

As I understand it, the Planar Vortex (not the structure, the actual magic Oblivion sippy-slurpy silly straw) is a recent development. From The Source of Power:

Excellent news! The Planemeld progresses, and we've reached a crucial milestone in our efforts. A planar vortex has formed. This nexus of Planemeld energy is the singular point where Nirn and Coldharbour come together.

Even if by some accident of fortune the invaders are able to disrupt the forging of the Great Shackle, the planar vortex will continue to draw the two worlds together until Nirn is entirely subsumed. It will take longer, of course, but Molag Bal's victory is inevitable—one way or another

This entry in the book comes after the one where the author is lamenting the Daedra of the Black Forge being too stupid to capture Vanus Galerion in one piece, so it was written during the Fighters/Mages Guild's invasion, specifically sometime after Vanus decided to stroll up to the Black Forge. The passage I quoted refers to "the invaders" implying that they're aware of the joint invasion effort. "The Planemeld progresses, and we've reached a crucial milestone in our efforts. A planar vortex has formed." implies that the vortex was indeed planned, but didn't properly form until around the time the guilds invaded.

TLDR: The Planar Vortex is a recent development, obviously planned, but there are no dates (that I can find) to suggest that the structure containing the portal to the vortex was built after the Soulburst. -MolagBallet (talk) 02:10, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd agree here, the data we have is too sparse to date the creation of the Endless Stair, and in fact we should probably consider this in reverse: The existence of a Titan other than Boziikkodstrun in 1E980 indicates that his death, and the building of the Endless stair, must have happened before this date. As for Aetherion, I'd put them into the same category as Harrowstorm Titans, as assets-reuse that shouldn't be taken as canon of being the same creature. (And even if, it's not actually pushing the Timeline that much more closed: Zandadunoz is dated to ~1E980, and Skyreach (and with it Aetherion) to the Yokudan invasion of ~1E800)--77.23.254.190 16:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Of course asset reuse is the true explanation, but the lore implications of this shouldn't be ignored on that basis. In any case, the crux of the issue here is the inconsistency in Daedra Dossier: The Titans. The Endless Stair was built by the Mad Architect to facilitate the Planemeld. This cannot be explained away by assuming the "structure" existed pre-Soulburst when we have no evidence to suggest this. Indeed, the Dreams of Cyrodiil chapter of The Improved Emperor's Guide to Tamriel implies through prophetic vision that the Titans were released into the skies of Tamriel for the first time when the first Dark Anchors fell above the Imperial City. The fact that later lore contradicts this original context is something worth noting here. —⁠Legoless (talk) 17:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Legoless here. Plus time doesn't really matter when time passes differently in oblivion:

"This might sound like a strange question. In fact, depending on how you answer it, it is a strange question.
Do you—do you remember me? I'm not talking about here in Summerset. I mean—from someplace else."

Not that I can recall. The first time I saw you was when you were wearing your golden armor.

"You don't remember me? I was afraid of that. Meridia told me that time worked differently in Oblivion, but I didn't believe her. What's happened to me hasn't happened to you yet.
That doesn't matter now. What matters is I found you."

Analeah Oaksong (talk) 18:19, 6 March 2024 (UTC)