Skyrim talk:Understone Keep

Nchuand-Zel

Shouldn't the ruins (Nchuand-Zel) be split off into a separate article? It seems like it will be unwieldy and odd to have a palace and a large dungeon in the same article. -- Hargrimm | ^Θ 00:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree. It is cumbersome the way it is arranged. When I started editing this page, I was going to replace the redirect page with content (basically creating a separate page for Nchuand-Zel), but saw that this page was under the redirects to broader subjects category. I assumed it was meant to be this way, but now am thinking it was just redirected because it had no content. I will work on creating a separate page for Nchuand-Zel. Any and all help would be appreciated. Eganio 00:18, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Crash on entry

I don't know why, but my game keeps crashing whenever I try to enter this cell. I first noticed this when both the TG journal quest and the Mara quest were asking me to go to Calcelmo, but I don't know if that has anything to do with the crash. I tried using coc markarthunderstonekeep, which worked. Talked to Calcelmo about both subjects, got what I need for the TG, but now I'm stuck in the Museum, and the code doesn't work anymore either now. Does anyone have similar problems? ~ Dwarfmp 17:50, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: Forgot to mention I also had to be there for the Stormcloaks about the steward, fortunately been able to do that part of the quest after the code ~ Dwarfmp 18:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I would re-install, but this is the first game I play through Steam, so I'm quite the noob when it comes to this program. I tried "Verify integrity of game cache", but that doesn't fix it ~ Dwarfmp 18:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok this is weird. COC doesn't work when I'm in the museum. I used COC to get me into the hall of the dead instead. From there using COC into understone keep DOES work... Very odd. Well if anyone is having the same problems as I am, try this method ~ Dwarfmp 18:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Seems I've run into this one too. Ditto with the Steam troubleshooting. Earlier savegames didn't have a corrupted Understone Keep cell, but it seems it corrupt from the moment the Thieves Guild quest Hard Answers becomes active (or directs you to Calcelmo). It's like you said, coc'ing from the Hall of the Dead does work, but not from Markarth itself.

On the way back I couldn't get back to the Understone Keep at all. Seems there is some bad corruption in that cell.

I've been wondering what the Hard Answers quest alters to the cell, but the only changes I can think of at all for the Markarth Understone Keep cell is the swapping of various NPCs after The Battle for Fort Sungard. Did you complete that quest before starting Hard Answers?

All in all, this seems to be one of the nastier bugs. Thankfully I've completed all other objectives and quests in the keep. Hopefully I won't run in any other corrupted cells. --Timenn-<talk> 23:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

UPDATE: It seems whenever I try to enter the understone keep for any reason it crashes and I've resetted console 3 times now. Is there currently a bug on it and in process of being patched up? — Unsigned comment by 92.16.32.115 (talk) at 12:34 on 14 January 2012

I wanted to confirm that the hall of the dead tip worked. Thanks to previous poster. I picked the lock into Markarth Hall of Dead. I first tried to pick the Understone Keep lock but again crashed to desktop. I reloaded my save within the Hall and then used the console coc command to get into understone keep. It worked and put me near the Jarl's throne room. I was able to complete my quests finally. — Unsigned comment by 24.166.248.51 (talk) at 18:15 on 26 February 2012

SOLUTION:

I had the same problem when I have the Hard Answer Quest. Whenever I enter the Understone Keep the game went CTD. I tried this trick and it worked for me. First i went to the Hall of the Dead and before I enter the door to the Understone Keep I activated WAIT (pressing T) for 24 hours and I enter, and it worked.. hope this helps.--Skyrimge 14:11, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I was having this problem as well... Entering understone keep was the only place I would CTD (100% of the time) in all of skyrim... I run well over 100 mods... after hrs of troubleshooting I have solved my problem by removing Skyrim Monster Mod by Dogtown1

I am unsure if the quests you are talking about cause bugs as well...

I have also read that perhaps: Wars In Skyrim/WAR ZONES/Monster Wars will cause CTDs while entering understone keep, although I have not tested these and don't have them installed. — Unsigned comment by 174.130.235.93 (talk) at 04:10 on 27 October 2012

it dosent work for me.--2.147.8.230 20:20, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

I have found that the best way to remedy this is to indeed use The Hall of The Dead as a proxy. Mods can cause Understone Keep to crash on entrance and exit and The Hall of The Dead is really the only way to pass in and out of there without triggering the sensitive CTD moments. ~JS --23:00, 27 March 2016 (EST)

Calcelmo's Laboratory Glitch - Trespassing?

I just added info about Calcelmo's laboratory. Playing on a PC, I got his key to the museum, which also opens his lab. When I entered the lab, I was trespassing and the guard attacked me. I verified it like this: first I got the key from Calcelmo, entered the museum, verified I had no bounty, then entered the laboratory with a key, and was given a bounty and attacked by the guard. Second, to verify that I hadn't received the key to the lab somewhere before, I loaded again to before I had the key, lockpicked my way into the museum, ran across to the lab, and when I tried to open the door, I didn't have the key, and the lockpick minigame came up. This verifies that even though Calcelmo gave me a key that opened his laboratory, I wasn't supposed to go in there. — Unsigned comment by 88.245.66.211 (talk) at 09:57 on 25 December 2011

I encountered a similar glitch: I could enter both the museum and the laboratory without getting a bounty, but as soon as I went to the Wizard's balcony, I could not re-enter the laboratory and was stuck outside. --Eldritch 19:01, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't think this is a glitch; - it's part of the story-line. Although I could not catch all of the conversation, upon entering the lab (legally, with the gifted key), you can hear someone speaking to someone else. You can hear them say something about important or dangerous work and he commands someone (a guard, I assume) to "kill anyone on sight." I think it may be part of the story line: although Calcelmo willingly gives you the key, you hear one of his apprentices gives contradictory orders to the guards. He tells you to look at his work in the museum, but that doesn't mean he wants you in his lab. Remember that he says in dialogue that he won't let anyone see his "unfinished work" (lab work) but you can see the museum (finished work). This is probably designed to require sneaky activity for the related Thieves Guild quest. --Amsuko 01:00, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I have the same problem, and now the Markarth guards are permanently aggressive against me. — Unsigned comment by 85.191.86.135 (talk) at 01:59 on 17 February 2012

Thanks you guys, you're freakin awesome, entering via hall of the dead worked for me. — Unsigned comment by 168.103.120.190 (talk) at 02:45 on 13 May 2012

(←) As of the latest patch Version 1.9.32.0.8, the guard in the laboratory room becomes hostile on approach, and there is a 5 septim bounty. Might it be reasonable to conclude that this area isn't really worth worrying about until the quest Hard Answers? (Lmstearn (talk) 10:14, 28 October 2013 (GMT))

Apologies for adding to an old discussion, but this is not a glitch. Calcelmo's Lab is explicitly off limits and gaining the key will only grant legal access to the museum: the laboratory is his personal living quarters and is not legal to access with the key. The bug mentioned about this is therefore not a bug. --217.43.150.37 00:20, 5 January 2014 (GMT)

The bug is about the museum, not the personal quarters. That is why no mention of the personal quarters are made in the bug entry on the page. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 00:43, 5 January 2014 (GMT)

Strange Island

In Calcelmo's Tower, if you use aura whisper near the staircase to the left, and then look left you will see a little bit of red showing someone off in the distance. On the PC, if you use the console to toggle clipping (tcl) you can go through the wall to the left of the left-side stairs to see a small island in the distance, and a Wizard's Gaurd standing on it who will attack you once he sees you. I have NO idea why it is there, it is obviously not an accident, but it doesn't serve any purpose either. I've noticed other things like this elsewhere, so PC users - be sure to explore! 96.227.78.41 09:01, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Double Hard Answers

I wander if this can be considered a bug. I've entered Dwemer Museum quite often before and after finishind the Thieves Guild quest, but after finishing "Battle for Windhelm" and entering the museum once more, the "Hard Answers" quest began once again. I have no idea where this'll lead, though, as the Thieves Guild questline is completely finished. — Unsigned comment by 46.203.212.49 (talk) at 16:19 on 18 February 2012

Untakeable arrow?

I was having a look around the Dwemer Museum after having earned the key, and I stumbled upon the Dwemer arrow with a red tip. I was curious so I unlocked the display case (not a crime) and attempted to steal the arrow which was marked "Dwemer Steam Centurion Arrow" (if I recall correctly) however, to my displeasure, it appears this arrow cannot be picked up! I was keen on holding on to it until I could display it in a POH but now my heart is broken :'( Does anybody know if this item is meant to not be picked up or am I doing it wrong? Ess-Tee 05:59, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

EDIT; Just read about it on the ammunition page and the corresponding discussion page. Does this mean I can get my follower to pick it up or? Ess-Tee 06:03, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

What's on that discussion page is pretty vague, and I don't know if it's accurate, but if it is like that particular giant's club, then followers can pick it up but not use it or trade it to you. ABCface^◥ 06:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Looking in the Creation Kit, it seems fairly clear it was intended that you shouldn't be able to pick it up. I suspect the fact that followers can take them (and apparently use them, if the Internet is right) is an oversight. – Robin Hood↝talk 03:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Dwemer Museum/Calcelmo's Lab/Tower

These 3 zones are pretty extensive, but all redirect back to Understone Keep. Should they be given their own article(s)? --Xyzzy 14:05, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Last I checked, The Silencer was revamping this page in his sandbox, so you might want to ask him about it. Kitkat ^{•Talk•Contrib•E-mail} 14:19, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Thalmor soldiers

So, after I completed the civil war for the Stormcloaks, I noticed that in a small romm behind an apprentice-locked door in Understone Keep, there are three people; Kottir Red-Shoal who says nothing but "Talos guide you," and two Thalmor soldiers sitting at the table near him who only say "Worship of Talos is strictly forbidden." Shouldn't these two be gone now that the Stormcloaks have Markarth? Schiffy (talk) 02:54, 24 October 2012 (GMT)

Double the Dwermer

While completing "Hard Answers" I looted most dwermer metals for smelting and placed them in a sack toward the end of the laboratory. After completing the quest I returned to retrieve the metal and the laboratory had reset, everything was there again, and when I made it back to the sack all the items I had placed were still there.

The tower and the museum did not seem to respawn all the items, but the laboratory definitely did. Ended up being a fast way to collect the dwermer objects for dwarven ingots. Didn't see it mentioned so I thought I would share. — Unsigned comment by 70.196.32.189 (talk) at 04:26 on 3 March 2013

Sniping from the Balcony - moved from Hard Answers article

While in the Wizard's Balcony area, it is possible to attack Markarth guards in the city below without a bounty being added or NPCs becoming hostile. There is a small pathway leading to the waterfall closest to Calcelmo's Tower that provides an excellent vantage point. Killing any named NPC however, will cause any guard that witnesses the death to become permanently hostile to you, and killing one of these hostile guards will result in a bounty as normal.

I was going to move this note from the Hard Answers article to this one, then decided to test it. It appears that it is incorrect, as it didn't matter who I sniped from the balcony area. At least one Markarth guard, plus the Jarl and his court, always became permanently hostile. I'm just going to put it here for discussion instead, as it's probably not worth adding to the article now. --Xyzzy ^Talk 23:46, 2 June 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, it doesn't have any relevance, nor is it useful to know. Also, making the Markarth Guards is a foolish move, as seen by the many bugs in The Forsworn Conspiracy. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:53, 2 June 2013 (GMT)

Trespassing when approaching the Jarl?

Randomly one or more of the four guards loitering along the hall between the entry door to Understone Keep and the Jarl (NOT at Calcemo's Lab/Museum) will go into the "You are trespassing here" sequence and then go hostile if I stand near them too long, which is a bit odd because they'll mix in their usual witticisms.

So far the only workaround I've found is to make sure I don't spend any time at all near them.

{Addedum: this is with Dawnguard/Dragonborn/Hearthfire installed, I didn't have this issue with just Skyrim pre-DLC}

--98.165.130.24 02:04, 20 August 2013 (GMT)

Poison gas bug - moved from article

In the poisonous gas area, the game crashes while saving after going through this area for too long using healing magic.

I'm moving this here because, first off, it's too vague (which healing spell? how long is "too long"?), and secondly, I tested it by running back and forth through the gas while continuously casting a Healing spell, then saving when my magicka ran out (which takes a long time with this spell when you have 550 magicka), and didn't experience a crash. There are a lot of reasons why a program may crash, many of which do not involve the program at all. If the OP could give some more details here about the crash, that would be swell. --Xyzzy ^Talk 12:50, 14 October 2013 (GMT)

Lockpicking Skill Increase

If you are low on lockpicking. Gain entrance to the museum and try to pick the locks of the display cases inside. There a total of 18. Some are expert. Good place to increase your lockpicking skill in a short time.— Unsigned comment by Handige Harrie (talk • contribs) at 14:35 on 1 March 2015‎

Respawn: Calcelmo's Tower

I don't believe that this area respawns, either. Someone might verify. — Unsigned comment by 76.234.40.15 (talk) at 17:53 on 20 February 2016 (UTC)

My Two Septims Worth

When I jumped down into Markarth proper from the balcony, I found the two skeletons just as described in the article. I also found two septims in the water next to one of the skeletons. Worth mentioning in the article? Valeria (talk) 01:30, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Inaccuracy

"All the living guards from here are wizard's guards and they wear a full set of Steel Plate Armor, which makes them tough to handle as a group."

No they don't, if you do Hard Answers at low levels the guards will be in standard Steel Armor rather than Plate. — Unsigned comment by 95.173.131.110 (talk) at 14:41 on 3 March 2020‎

Yup, you're right. For now, I just took the easy solution of changing it to "Steel or Steel Plate", but I'm not sure if the bit about it being difficult holds true at very low levels. Feel free to adjust that if needed. For reference, the nominal changeover point is level 18 (15 for the gauntlets), although that's affected by the game's levelling mechanics. If I recall the mechanics correctly, the changeover might actually occur closer to level 12.

Also, to insert an automatic signature, use four tildes in a row. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:22, 3 March 2020 (GMT)

Thanks for the tip about signature! 95.173.131.110 08:40, 4 March 2020 (GMT)

And, what do you know, recalled my old account as well. How time flies. DCP23 (talk) 09:07, 4 March 2020 (GMT)

Entrance behind Markarth Stables?

The map shows an entrance to Understone Keep on the cliffs behind Markarth Stables. After mountain goating up the cliff, you can find the ruin of some octagonal dwemer stonework. But there's nothing to interact with. Is there something here? --Olaus (talk) 14:27, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Further researching this myself in the Creation Kit, the door appears behind the stables as a trapdoor, in the stone circle I described. This trapdoor isn't shown normally in game. Following it to the other side, the matching door appears to be on the throne in Understone Keep; nothing there looks like a door but that's where the object is. The door is named "CW Escape", suggesting it has something to do with the Civil War. Presumably this has something to do with some unfinished Civil War content and is never actually enabled. Nothing is shown by clipping through the ground at either end. There's only one Civil War quest (Compelling Tribute - Stormcloaks) in Markarth, and this is not involved. Unless there's some secret way to activate this door, I think it should be removed from the map. --Olaus (talk) 21:22, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Wrapping this up, yes it was part cut civil war content, of which there was a lot. Dragonsreach and Mistveil Keep also have escape doors, although theirs do not link to any matching door on the outside. It seems that one draft concept of the civil war could have you defending one of the cities and then lose, forcing you to escape with the jarl and some of their court. There doesn't appear to be enough of this implemented to say much about how it would have worked. --Olaus (talk) 01:47, 15 October 2022 (UTC)