Lore talk:Gods S

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eek! -sorry all, I'm not really sure how I manged to muck this age up quite so much! Jadrax 18:36, 3 February 2007 (EST)

No problem :) I figured it was just a mistake when cutting and pasting... I've done worse myself --Nephele 18:40, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Shezzar?

isn't it spelled shezzar?11:22, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Every reference I'm coming up with is "Shezarr" not "Shezzar". From very game-specific ones such as the Shezarr Stone to more legitimate lore ones: The Monomyth, Varieties of Faith in the Empire. If the Monomyth says so, it must be true, right? ;) --Nephele^Talk 11:31, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Lol! I just realized that everyone on the forums spells it shezzar. Not enough newbies to crrect usTemple-Zero 11:38, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

See? Our wiki obsessiveness pays off sometimes :P --Nephele^Talk 11:47, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Hist and Sithis?

Is there any reference for the Hist trees worshipping Sithis? The only source I'm aware of is "The Monomyth" which says that the trees "acknowledge" Sithis, not necessarily worship it; and the Monomyth is a contentious piece of Elven apologia arguing for the universality of the Aldmer pantheon. I can't imagine its Altmer author actually trekked into the hinterland of Black Marsh to try to speak to the trees himself before writing his religious tract. — Unsigned comment by 74.37.122.207 (talk) on 11 November 2010

It's probably nonsense. A lot of the Lore pages are masses of unsupported statements that almost amount to fanfics. It's one of the things on my list to fix, but if you want to help, please go ahead. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Seth

I've come across a few references to a deity or person known as Seth. There is also apparently a Brotherhood of Seth, also referred to as the Brotherhood of the Seth, that was somehow involved in Daggerfall and which did have some influence in Black Marsh.

We don't have any pages or snippets discussing the faction or person/god, so I just thought I'd throw this out there in case anyone knows anything about it and feels like writing a paragraph or two ... Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 17:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

More on Seth

Been digging through the TES:Arena game files and came up with the following on Seth:

Known Game Lore

1. The Brotherhood of Seth in Camlorn, High Rock, was responsible for sending the TES1 hero on a staff piece quest - first to the mines of Khuras and then giving the map location to the crypt of hearts.

2. The entry text that is displayed to the player upon arriving in the city of Gideon in Black Marsh in TES1, which reads as follows:

"Gideon, the black city of the followers of Seth, lies near the southern tip of the Imperial Run. A cold air that has nothing to do with the time of year seems to chill your bones as you enter..."

Speculation

1. Odds are good that, given the description of Gideon in its entry text, this religion or cult has a large Argonion makeup.

2. Camlorn is a coastal city. given the Argonian affinity for water, that would make it one of numerous logical locations for a temple.

3. Other brotherhoods and temples devoted to Seth exist in TES Arena, but the one in Camlorn was instrumental to the game's plot. (Oddly, Camlorn is also almost a direct diagonal across the continent of Tamriel from Gideon. Not directly germane to the subject at hand, but an interesting fact.) It might be worthwhile to check other cities and towns in TES:Arena to see if this coastal or water-centric pattern for the cult is part of the game's design.

4. If the lore on the deity known as "Sep", a snake deity, is examined in light of this information, can a connection be posited between these two - i.e., is "Sep" another name for "Seth" and vice versa. Again, the connection is based on verbal similarity and the physical natures of snakes an lizards (and by extension the Argonians). They share much in common: cold blood, scaled hides, carnivorous diet and so forth. If this were a workable theory, would lore on Sep have any possible additional information on the subject?

Summation There have been arguments made in the past that TES:Arena can only be considered from the point of view of "proto lore" at best. I disagree with this, as backed by several items found in TES1 hint book, the Codex Scientia. The first mentioning of Kynareth and Morihaus can be found there in the Lord's Mail description (page 121), as can the description of a lost "dwarven clan of Rourken" connected with both Voldenrung (page 122) and Spellbreaker (page 123). The latter artifact was also mentioned as having "historical importance dating from the battle of Rourken-Shalidor". Boethiah is first mentioned as a dark-elven goddess in the Lord's Mail description (page 122), and so on. Many of these descriptions are still in use in game lore dating right up to TES4 Oblivion. I cannot speak for TES5 Skyrim, since I do not own (and therefore have not played) the game.

Thus, I believe the lore in TES:Arena is actually based on a far more developed version of Tamriel them might be assumed at first glance. Because of this, extrapolation is possible, allowing for changes and evolution in later lore (and game development). This could be useful in making connections to help flesh out this particular deity.

24.86.107.95 11:23, 29 October 2012 (GMT) Braggi

The speculation seems a bit far-fetched, but I've written an entry for Seth based on the Arena info. —Legoless (talk) 13:07, 29 October 2012 (GMT)

"a synthesis of Nordic Shor and Aldmeri Auriel"

I don't understand the source of an article on Shezarr which says he is "a synthesis of Nordic Shor and Aldmeri Auriel". Some guys at russian boards even cite that phrase. The closest source tells about the synthesis of the pantheons, not about Auriel. Phoenix Neko (talk) 19:08, 1 November 2012 (GMT)

It was added by Temple-Zero in 2008. He doesn't contribute much anymore, but when he did, he had a penchant for including OOG information. Flipping through TIL, though, I still don't see anything to really corroborate it. And regardless, The Monomyth's "Shezarr's Song" contradicts the claim by establishing a clear distinction between Auriel and Shezarr. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 19:43, 1 November 2012 (GMT)

Yes, this was exactly my point. Thank you for your response and edit. Phoenix Neko (talk) 20:38, 1 November 2012 (GMT)

Removed from Shezarr entry

"In 1E 266, the lost Shezarr arrived at the White Gold Tower in the Imperial City and transformed the dying Alessia into the first of the Cyrodilic saints becoming the first gem in the Cyrodilic Amulet of Kings."

I cannot find a source for this proposition. It was part of the old site, and was added to this page when it was created in 2005. It's not from dialogue in Morrowind. I'll be removing it in an update soon. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 06:07, 25 May 2013 (GMT)

Shandar

I think we should remove Shandar from this page, as the only source is from the Daggerfall Preview (which, since it is pre-release, is UOL) where activating shrines of Ebonarm refer to Shandar. Those shrines were eventually changed to Stendarr before the game was released. I think we should just be redirecting Shandar to the Ebonarm page, where this fact is already described. The only other Shandar is clearly a mortal, who is part of the Mara's Tear tale (Shandar's Sorrow), and likely unrelated to this Shandar. Jeancey (talk) 20:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, only UOL. Mindtrait0r (talk) 20:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah the detail should atleast be mentioned in notes on Ebonarm's page or something.Tarponpet (talk) 20:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Alternatively Shandar article/entry could be a person rather than god (a figure from legend, and source of the name of the moon, present in both mainstream and druidic cultures of Bretons), where (if article) the UOL about Shandar the god could be delegated to notes.Tyrvarion (talk) 21:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

It's unclear, to me, if Shandar (as the person) is actually a real person who existed, or just a fable, considering the other person in the tale is named "Mara". But either way, that is already mentioned under the Breton section on Secunda (which I think is probably enough, given that Shandar is only important in that context). Also, the Shandar detail with Ebonarm is already mentioned in the notes on that page :) Jeancey (talk) 21:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

If someone is relevant enough to exist throughout multiple fables or mythology details I think they warrant an article. Regardless of possibility they might not be real. That said im not familiar with how many times this character has come up and in what context.- Tarponpet (talk) 21:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I think it's exclusively from Mara's Tear and that's it. (or rather, in relation to that one myth) Jeancey (talk) 21:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)