Lore talk:Argonian Names

Idolan Lancaster

There's an Argonian in Arena called Idolan Lancaster. Is he on the list? -- Kharwog, 19 June 2013‎

It doesn't appear that he is. However, this name doesn't follow the pattern that all other Argonian names in Arena apparently follow. I guess it should be added as an exception to the rule. --Xyzzy ^Talk 20:07, 1 July 2013 (GMT)

Nomu

In the book that Nomu appears in it refers to him as.. well him he is on the female list though. — Unsigned comment by 69.29.93.238 (talk) at 14:29 on 19 July 2013

Fixed. --AN|L (talk) 15:12, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

That was my bad. I had to go through every book I could find for Argonian names, and I wrote down Nomu in the wrong column on my list. Jeancey (talk) 18:21, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

J'Ram-Dar

I think that J'Ram-Dar being an Argonian was a mistake by Bethesda. It is a Khajiit name (J' prefix, -Dar suffix). Or perhaps he was raised by Khajiit. No other Argonian name is known to be constructed like this. I think we should at least add a little indication pointing out his exceptional name. Elymdor (talk) 14:00, 6 March 2014 (GMT)

Fair point - I added a note. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:03, 6 March 2014 (GMT)

Lifts-Her-Tail

Are we actually considering this a legitimate Argonian name?? That's like calling "Hung Long" a Chinese name, IMO. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's a "joke" name. --Xyzzy ^Talk 21:06, 11 March 2014 (GMT)

I would support removing it, or at the very least sticking a note on it. I generally think the purpose of these Name pages is to allow people to see patterns and typical constructions of certain races' names, and the only names that contribute to that purpose are those which were actually given by and to members of that race. -- Hargrimm^(T) 23:28, 11 March 2014 (GMT)

One Word Names

Do they have Cyrodiilic counterparts too? — Unsigned comment by Microbat (talk • contribs) at 23:21 on 2 August 2014‎

Non-NPC names

Should we include any name mentioned in any game, not just those that are given to an NPC? In ESO, if you take the skills for crafting hirelings, the materials will be accompanied by a message, often telling the story of the hireling's adventures acquiring your materials. In one of these, my hireling mentions an Argonian named Aleet-Uka that he met while traveling. This person will probably never have an article to link to, but it is a name from an official source, so it should be added to this article, IMO. --Xyzzy ^Talk 16:35, 24 August 2014 (GMT)

We mention all names from books in the "Lore"-Section with a link to the respective book. The messages are likely not noteworthy enough to get a page in lore space, so we should list these names in the "Online"-Section linking to the respective message page. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:52, 24 August 2014 (GMT)

Names mentioned only in dialogue or text should be and often are included in the names page. They should be placed in the lore section with a link to wherever the name is mentioned. (EX. In Oblivion Ahdarji mentions her deceased mate Qa-Dar, as Qa-Dar is dead and does not physically appear in game his name is listed under the lore section with a link to Ahdarji's page where the dialogue is posted. This allows readers to see the veracity of the listed name.)--StormySkies (talk) 16:59, 24 August 2014 (GMT)

Argonian names

Since both "single-word" (1-word) and "hyphenated" Argonian type of names are basicly the native Argonian Jel names I'd suggest to unify this two sections and set the typology of argonian names as jus: - Jel Argonian names - Cyrodilic Argonian names

How do you, guys, feel about that?

Cyrodilic vs Tamrielic

This page is a little weird to discuss it, but it makes sense since the issue appeared here.

There are many sources that use the word "Cyrodilic" in a way that strongly implies that it's a language everyone (civilized) speaks and understands. Examples include:

"Never tell a nix-hound that it's ugly. It doesn't speak Cyrodilic, and it won't understand what you're saying. You're just wasting your time." - Drunken Aphorisms

""Aedra" and "Daedra" are not relative terms. They are Elvish and exact. Azura is a Daedra both in Skyrim and Morrowind. "Aedra" is usually translated as "ancestor," which is as close as Cyrodilic can come to this Elven concept." - Aedra and Daedra

In these quotes (which are just a few examples) it is rather clear that the word refers to the everyday language and not some ancient language from the distant past.

"Tamrielic" is of course also used in this context, so the two are pretty much interchangeable. So I believe the page was correct before. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 21:16, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Nothing in "Aedra and Daedra" suggests that Cyrodilic is the modern language and the author of "Drunken Aphorisms" is no linguistics expert. See First Era entry for 1E 2813:

Across Tamriel, Cyrodilic, the precursor to the modern Tamrielic language, replaces High Elven as the language of all legal documents.

The Altmer race description in TES3 says this:

the common tongue of the Empire, Tamrielic, is based on Altmer speech and writing

The book "The Wild Elves" strongly implies that "Old" Cyrodilic was based on Ayleidoon while Tamrielic is based on Altmeri language. Thus Cyrodilic and Tamrielic are two related but different languages like Anglo-Saxon and modern English so they cannot be used absolutely interchangeably.Phoenix Neko (talk) 08:52, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Alright then, here are some more examples:

""You speak Cyrodilic very well," said Potema." - Potema to Orgnum in The Wolf Queen (a Third Era story)

"The voice boomed out so suddenly that Decumus Scotti jumped. He stared off into the dim jungle glade from which he only heard animal and insect calls, and the low whistling of wind moments before. It was a queer, oddly accented voice of indiscriminate gender, tremulous in its modulations, but unmistakably human. Or, at very least, elven. An isolated Bosmer perhaps with a poor grasp of the Cyrodilic language." - A Dance in Fire, Chapter 5 (another Third Era story)

"I'm Druja. You want something? Or you just practicing your Cyrodilic?" - Druja to the player character in Oblivion

Plus, there are many references to Cyrodilic as the everyday language of the Empire in the Second Era Murkmire books A Culinary Adventure and Murky Time.

All these prove beyond any reasonable doubt that whether Cyrodilic is an official alternative name to Tamrielic or not, it is a name commonly used for the language in everyday speech, and when "Cyrodilic" is said in a non-ancient context, everyone understands that it refers to the modern common language. Your sources are, of course, also good: they prove that there used to be another common tongue in the Reman time, also called Cyrodilic, or sometimes Old Cyrodilic for the proper context (see Withershins). The logical conclusion is that it is not wrong to refer to Tamrielic as Cyrodilic, and so both names could stay on the page. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 19:29, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

I still can't see why we should use a colloquial term instead of the proper one. I also can't see why we should use both when one is enough. Phoenix Neko (talk) 23:30, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Vordur is entirely correct. Cyrodilic, Tamrielic, Old Elf; these terms all refer to the same language. As is clear from Druja's dialogue quoted above, there is nothing ancient about the usage of the word "Cyrodilic" to describe everyday speech in TES. Whether or not both terms are used on this page is a stylistic choice I think, but I am firmly against the removal of the term based on the reasoning contained in the edit summaries here. —Legoless (talk) 12:44, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Jeetum-Hei

Jeetum-Hei is placed in ESO male names but when I followed the link to the character is apparently female. 81.105.210.188 10:28, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing. It should be fixed now.Tyrvarion (talk) 11:33, 11 May 2022 (UTC)