General talk:Gender and Sexual Diversity

Introduction Wording

Is "celebrate" really the right word to use in the intro? I figure that wording like "document" or "make note of" is more in line with the neutral tone needed for a wiki, but what do I know haha. Theolaa (talk) 01:10, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Heterosexual vs. Bisexual

How can we know that "most characters are heterosexual"? Having a partner of the different sex doesn't automatically make one heterosexual, they could as well just be bisexual. Ruling out bisexuality is impossible in most cases. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:38, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

This is a good point. I agree with this point. Jacksol (talk) 20:00, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

We can't know that most characters are cisgender or heterosexual. We should certainly change the wording on that. -MolagBallet (talk) 20:54, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Vivec

Is the purpose of this particular page to be encyclopedic or more fast and loose with source material in favor of more agreed upon terms? I keep seeing edits that describe Vivec as intersex but this is misleading. The sermons describe him as a “magical hermaphrodite” and state many times throughout that he can both bear *and* produce children. One need not get caught up in the confusion of how this does not align with irl biology as this is a magical setting with Vivec himself being an even greater anomaly as a divine being. Vivec is also not the only example of a sapient being within the setting that fits this bill. Both Sloads and Lamia are also described as hermaphroditic in nature. I think this article was a great idea, and I understand the fluidity with the wording given it was placed in general, and not lore space. However, if we are going to go as far as making claims and then citing them on this page with a source (which was done in this case) then I feel it is only appropriate to accurately represent said source. The problem with the intersex descriptor is that it assumes either A. Vivec can not produce or carry children (not the case per the sources) or B. Vivec can at best produce *or* carry children (also not the case per the sources) the argument that Vivec is embellishing in said sources also falls flat because the basis of the claim as it stands is said sources. Dcking20 (talk) 01:16, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

IMO the page is about showing existing representation in the Elder Scrolls, I dunno if we want to include language used for Vivec that even MK has distanced himself from, especially when a theoretically hermaphroditic person, if they were to exist, would be considered intersex. Jacksol (talk) 02:19, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Aydolan

Where does the idea that Aydolan had a same-sex relationship come from? He is said to have joined Carinar in moving south with half of the Quicktalon Clan, becoming the Spiritblood Clan, but I can't see anything in his history indicating that he ever had a same-sex relationship.

He mentions wanting to date a male Dremora in one of his dialogues in the game. Since it doesn't add much to the lorespace its only mentioend in his online article.Tyrvarion (talk) 16:58, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Ra'Tesh and Karrod (Tribunal)

This is a possible addition to this page. It might not rise to the level of a same-sex relationship, but perhaps it warrants a mention. I'm putting it here for others to decide, since I can't edit the page myself.

In Tribunal, there is a male Khajiit bartender named Ra'Tesh, whose dialogue implies that he likes Karrod, a male Redguard and one of the King's guards. As far as I can tell, there isn't a confirmed relationship - just Ra'Tesh's statements about Karrod.

On the other hand, for one choice during the related quest, Ra'Tesh says he will send a lady to "occupy" Karrod on the night before Karrod's fight with the player, so Karrod will be tired in the morning. Also, Karrod doesn't have any corresponding dialogue indicating that he likes Ra'Tesh.

On the other other hand, Tribunal was released in late 2002, so maybe hints and allegations like this were as far as Bethesda felt they wanted to push it at the time.

Thanks! 69.247.222.163 03:37, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

I think it's worth adding Ra'Tesh to the page at the very least, to note the implication. —⁠Legoless (talk) 12:52, 26 February 2024 (UTC)