General:Redguard Forum Madness

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Book Information
Source: Redguard Forum
Archived Link: The Essential Site

The Imperial Library

Writer(s): Michael Kirkbride, Kurt Kuhlmann, Gary Noonan, and Ken Rolston
Publication Date: circa February 1999
Redguard Forum Madness

Redguard Forum Madness was a brainstorming roleplay about plots to come for both Morrowind and Oblivion, which was carried out on the storyboard of the Redguard website in February of 1999. Most of the ideas presented were left on the cutting room floor, but serve as a useful insight into what the developers' original intentions were.

Andel Crodo (Pronunciation of terms in the Pocket Guide...)

Pronunciation of terms in the Pocket Guide...

There are a handful of things mentioned in the Pocket Guide to Tamriel and I'm curious about how to pronunciate them. The elven races in particular, how to say the word, "Aldmeri," specifically. Hey, If I'm going to roleplay as one, I'd like to know how the heck to say what it is that I am! ;o)

Am I wrong to think that it sounds like, "(Sc)ald Merry," or, "Old Mary"? Hmm... sounds to me like she's having too much fun with the coffee pot. ::chuckle::

Honestly now, the following is what I've been using.

"Ald" - AHHLD

"Mer" - murr

"i" - EEE

AHHLD-murr-EEE. Is this right?

Why, do you ask, that I ask? Well, I assure you all that there is indeed a method to my madness. I asked my wife what she thought upon pointing to the word, and she said, "uld-MARR-eye", with the emphasis on only the center syllable... quite the opposite of what I thought it was.


Qwerty (Re: Question still open to discussion...)

I thought it's more like "uld-mEry". One thing I'm absolutely sure about - the final "i" should NOT be pronounced as "eye". The "Old Mary" thing from "The Pocket Guide" suggests that. Also, I would question your "mur" syllable - "mury" would hardly ever, IMHO, evolve into "Mary". OK, whatever.

Besides, there's a way to know the rules. Turn the subtitles on, replay Redguard to the prison quest, and, when fighting with Dram, watch the lines of text appearing in the bottom of the screen, and listen carefully to what Dram is yelling. This may give a clue. He is Elf, after all, and knows better how to pronounce that. On the other hand, Andel Crodo is Elf, too...

Andel Crodo (Re: Question still open to discussion...)

You mean it is indeed mentioned in the Guide itself? D'oh! Talk about egg on my face. Perhaps I should have RTFM before asking! ;o)


GT (Re: Question still open to discussion...)

Darn'it Andel, are you always so difficult....hahahahaha? WHo really knows how its pronounced? Tell ya what though, when I take my vacation this spring to Vvardenfell, and visit Gnisis, Vivec, Sadrith Mora, and Bal Ur, I'll be sure to grab a few "Hooked on Morrowind Ebonics" brochures. I'll even see if I can get a few of the limited edition "Tongues of the Morag Tong" tapes. Perhaps the key is to try to sound like Chris Tucker doing his best Middle Eastern impression of a Brooklyn landlord?


Andel Crodo (Re: Question still open to discussion...)

> Darn'it Andel, are you always so difficult....hahahahaha? WHo
> really knows how its pronounced?

Oh, fuss and bother! Run it past the PG idea-maker, by cracky!

I suppose I'll blend Qwerty's suggestion with my own and stick with "UHHLD-mer-EE" for the time being.

> I'll be sure to grab a few "Hooked on Morrowind
> Ebonics" brochures.

And from the Dark Elves, no less. Ooof! Should this be classified as "on-color humor"? ::chuckle::

> Perhaps the key
> is to try to sound like Chris Tucker doing his best Middle Eastern
> impression of a Brooklyn landlord?

That would be Lakheen. ;o)


Michael (How to Say it All)

How to Say it All:

Pronounced AHLD-Mary. Means 'of the First Folk.' 'Old Mary' is a Colovian corruption, and joke.

Dwemer (the Dwarves) is DWAY-mare. Means 'Deep Folk.'

Dunmer (the Dark Elves) is doon-MARE. Means 'Dark Folk.' Colovian hicks say DUHN-merh, but the Dark Elves laugh at them or strike at them, depending upon the number of hicks present.

Chimer (precursor to Dunmer) is KY-mare. Means 'Changed Folk.' Oops! This is a secret..!

Altmer (High Elves) is AHLT-mare. Means 'High Folk.'

Bosmer (Wood Elves) is BO-mare. Means 'Green Folk.'

And, finally, Daedra is EITHER DAY-druh OR DEE-druh, depending upon your inclination. DEE-druh is the Dunmeri preference and, since they made up the word, will be more acceptable come TESIII. Means 'Our Stronger, Better Ancestors.'

Michael (How to Say it All)

First, the place was Velothi, a bunch of squabbling Chimeri and Dwemeri tribes. Then, the Nords came, conquered, and named it 'Dunmereth.' The Chimer and Dwemer finally got smart, joined up, kicked the Nords out, and created 'Resdayn.' Then the Dwemer vanished, the Volcano erupted, the Tribunal showed up, everybody's skin changed, and things got _really weird_. Now the lovely place is called 'Morrowind.'

Qwerty (Re: Thanks a great lot, Michael!)

Julian LeFay was much more cryptic concerning the dragons issue...

> Pronounced AHLD-Mary. Means 'of the First Folk.' 'Old Mary' is
> a Colovian corruption, and joke.

I meant that the very fact that Aldmeri evolved into "Old Mary" in vulgar Colovian suggests certain resemblance. Nothing serious, of course.

> Dwemer (the Dwarves) is DWAY-mare. Means 'Deep Folk.'

Some character of Redguard (was it J'ffer?) was actually using this word in the game. He pronounced it like "DWEE-mare".

And Michael... As soon as thee bestoweth thy phonetic wisdom upon unworthy ones... Please... What's the plural for Daedra? I'm sure it's "Daedra" too, not "Daedras"...

Michael (Re: Thanks a great lot, Michael!)

You're right. "Daedra" is the plural form of "Daedroth."

PS. J'ffer was just being a silly ignorant beast-man. He's never even read Marobul Sul's "Ancient Tales of the Dwemer."

Qwerty (Re: Daedra)

I've seen the form "Daedras" only once, in "Fools' Ebony", part 3. Scribe's mistake, I guess. Or author's intentional imitation of commons' speech.

Ancalagorn (Excuse me but...)

I kind of remember(maybe I am mistaking...) that Frost/Fire daedra(s?) didnt prounounced it as DAY-druh OR DEE-druh...

Michael (Excuse me but...)

The Daedra-bound elementals cannot be held accountable for their queer pronunciations. Speech is the realm of better beasts.

Antabolis Hasphat (Excuse me but...)

I would not take the ravings of this "Michael" too seriously. He has never been published in the Journal of Ancient Tamrielic History, and was dismissed from the his position at the University of Gwylim for persisting in reading aloud portions of the long-debunked "Monkey Truth" during faculty meetings.

> Chimer (precursor to Dunmer) is KY-mare. Means 'Changed Folk.'
> Oops! This is a secret..!

All modern scholars agree that Chimer means "Crafty Folk". "Changed Folk" is rank speculation based on early reports from the excavation of Dagon Fell (which I supervised), and has been resoundingly disproven in my recently published article, "Dunmer and Chimer in the Mythic Era: A Social History" (JATH 5897.3).

Chavana Emalur (Excuse me but...)

Antabolis Hasphat's transcription of the Aldmeri particle "chi" as "crafty" or "of the craftsman class" is based on mistaken analogies with the "ki" or "xi" particles common to 1st Era literary Aldmeri. Literary Aldmeri diverged in form and function from formal Aldmeri before the First Era. Hasphat's overlooking the more modern ascription of "chi" as "changed", or "corrupted", or "accursed," seems peculiar from a scholar aspiring to modernity. I note that Hasphat's "Dunmer and Chimer in the Mythic Era: A Social History" is dedicated to his patron, His Excellency, Muthser Romori Sedur Norilnor, Dunmeri of House Hlaalu, a prosperous and bloated plutocrat grown fat at the tables of the Imperial monopolists, whose interests in the whitewashing of the Dark Elven Curse must be obvious to even the most casual observer.

Chavana Emalur humble scribe, initiate of the Shrine of the Hidden Saints, Narsis, Morrowind

Mophar Grandalk (Excuse me but...)

My goodness, my old friend Chavana, so-called "celebrated historian and scholar" of Tamrielic literature. I've not seen you seen or heard the likes of you since you were ousted from the Guild of Scholars, and you dare intervene in such a public posting? Such insouciant actions can result in an unfortunate, unexpected visit from the Morag Tong. Please, show respect and know your rank amidst these grounds. Such an ashlander as yourself should not pretend to be a literate citizen of this "fine" kingdom known as Tamriel.


Mophar Grandalk (Excuse me but...)

Let us not use the "Great Ape Man's" preachings in vain. As was taught to me by an elderly priest from the Temple Zero who had much wisdom of the "Monkey Truth", we blunt ears and pointy ears all have much to learn from this great primate, Maruhk. Alas, I can only hope to read more of these grand preachings. By the way Antabolis, Speak lightly of the one called "Michael". For I am now his new understudy, hahaha.


"Tam! Rugh!"

3 argor (rising?)

is the time then at hand?

"Tam! Rugh!"

res markady (NO)

hold your tongue fool

Luvalis Indoval (NO)

Why must a philosophies of the Great Ape be taken in vain? Such tomfoolery is unjust in the name of the Temple Zero. For, not let us forget the Archives as a whole. May Maruhk shine his wisdom down on us all.


Muthser Mengi Anekwa (You know not what you speak.)

We, the undersigned, do protest the facetious sport made of the Received Word of the Perfect Master, Lord Maruhk. May his words be inscribed upon the eyelids of those who would be wise.

Muthser Mengi Anekwa Sedura Chavana Komala Sedur Venrish Verz Sedura Ginaya Urish Ser Sedur Hals Vazra Sera Sedura Tehja Tima Muthser Pamur Arni Ser Jap Charz Nemer Ullor Kenopa Ser Sera Gellom Emalur Netum Vehmi Ser Euren Alom Ser Sera Alor Domali Memur Inawa Muthser Vedor Hilor Nemer Pettur Busha Ser Anagen Etidum Sera Tinshi Vena Nekwa Tarma Termali Ganri Ser Ogilur Nawa Muthser Sera Tidas Besha Sera Sorma Kasti Ser Pelm Tenip Muthsera Jelsa Nattur

Luvalis Indoval/ (You know not what you speak.)

So sayeth the infidel, so sayeth Anekwa!! Your hideous remarks concerning the Great Ape, Lord of all material and imaterial wisdom are foreshortened by your lack of comprehension of His word. Your insidious tongue could surely land you crucified alongh the roadside of my fine land. Dont think that speaking in tongue will hide your intentions. If any inscribing is to be done here, it will be the blade of a hired Morag Tong on your throat. Then, the Recieved Word shall show its strength in your flesh. Good day to you.


Morag Sithil/ (You know not what you speak.)

Be warned, the Tong will not have its name be invoked lightly, especially by one who panders to the foreigners as you do. The Indoval clan has been dragged through the mud by such as you, "Luvalis". We marked many for your great-uncle Indoval Ros, a mer worthy of respect. But Sithis may feed on your life's breath as a boon if ye cease not your prating. Be warned.

Ros Indoval/ (You know not what you speak.)

Please, Mighty Sithil, hear my plea. Do not invoke any great punishment on my nephew for his looseness of tongue, for he is ignorant in his knowlege and suffers greatly from lack of respect. I have sworn to his father, Becher Jus Luvalis, that I would take this youth under my wing and produce a worthy man of him. Let not his petty breath offend thee. Please mark him not. For after my schoolings, if the child continues his harboring of childishness, I shall mark him myself and ask that I myself be marked for my failure. My word is my bond, and I am good for that much.


Morag Sultha (Free Mark: Indoval)

Morag Sithil, see how the Indovals have been tainted. They reverse their surnames, man-fashion. "Ros Indoval." "Luvalis Indoval." And further, he speaks of the goal of his whelp-rearing to

> produce a worthy man of him.''

The mer we knew as Indoval Ros is now in the business of producing men. Their House should fall as quickly as House Dram's, when lo those heirs trafficked in the affairs of the Cyrodiils. Let us not forget PSJJJJ's yearly Free Marks we are alotted this math-murder span-- if you will not, I may act, for my rank is well enough.

Sleep if you can, House Indoval.

Morag Sultha

Luvalis Indoval/ (Hear my plea)

Sultha, for let my words not brand my house. I alone, speak as an individual, and not as my house. My actions and words shall shadow my house for no longer. My Great Uncle Ros is a dear, and kind man, and does not deserve to suffer under my sophomoric attitude. I am yet a child, a boy who needs to learn the ways of the world. Morrowind may be of my origin, but it does not seem to be my place of mind. I am tainted by the influence of "blunt ears" and wish I were only strong enough in my youth to break free. Mark me if you will, I accept the consequeces, but House Indoval is innocent of my personality and my character. I am guilty of only my youth and non understanding of the world, and if a mark is just, then so be it. Long live House Indoval.

Luvalis Indoval of the House Indoval, West Vivec

Morag Sultha (Hear my plea)

Luvalis the Mouse,

Lord Boethiah to the exodus: "Divide ye like your enemies, in Houses, and lay your laws in set sequence from the center, again like the enemy Corners of the House of Troubles, and see yourself thence as timber, or mud-slats, or sheets of resin. Then do not divide, for yet is the stride of Sithis quicker than the rush of enemies, and He will sunder the whole for the sake of a shingle."

Morag Sultha

morag tal (be it known)

I bear the mark of Luvalis Indoval under 30 day law. Let none hinder on pain of sharing.

Morag Tal

The Tamriel Crier (Hear ye, hear ye)

[Article posted on a board just outside of a local tavern]

At 168 (no human can possibly live this long) years of age, Wise Old Ros Indoval was found dead. His wife found his corpse soon after nightfall this past eve. His throat had been slit from ear to ear. His nephew, Luvalis Indoval, a young 22 (now thats young for an elven child) year old boy, was found dead just outside of the same house. Luvalis had been an understudy of his Great Uncle Ros for 2 short months. Imperial officials were sent in to examine this strange, yet gruesome massacre on the child and his elderly uncle. The only thing that officials had to say was that after finding strange carvings on the foreheads of the slayn, this case is closed. Who could have committed such a cowardly act on such a young, innocent child and this widely known, sincere elderly man? A man of great wisdom and importance to the populace. Perhaps the carvings could tell us more, or better yet, perhaps we are better off not knowing.

Andel Crodo (Hear ye, hear ye)

> Perhaps the carvings could tell us more,
> or better yet, perhaps we are better off not knowing.

And perhaps a weighty bounty is ripe for the claiming?

Luvalis had displayed himself as an insolent Dunmer who generously catered to the Primates - most foul and pungent beasts, who dare claim evolutionary ties in their wild arrogance. Most Cyrodils bear at least the fairest of common courtesies by virtue of sporting minutely shaven chins out of the welcome respect for those Elders able to stomach their often unwelcome company.

Treachery is a fetid rotting husk that emits a most acrid yet distinct odor. Methinks this is a case of dissention in the ranks, that which urged a silence upon they who should have been content to be lambs. Keep a wary eye to your backside, my brothers... for these are quite unsettling times indeed.


3 argor (Thus)

So perish those who hasten the time unreadily.

82 Crodo (The "Chi" Prefix Fixation)

Though I will probably be excommunicated for pointing this out during the flamestorm of "Era's End," it perhaps is not too unreasonable that the "Chi" in "Chimer" does indeed denote "Changed Folk." The "kai" in "Stros M'kai" means "thought," as in the Yokudan translation of that isle's name, "Sister of Thought." Everyone knows that Yokuda suffered Aldmeri rule as much as any human land during the Mythic Era, and that Elven loan-words may have found their way into the Yokudan language.

At any rate, kai-as-thought can also be read kai-as-canny, thus illuminated thus fundamentally _changed_.

Any doubts as to the Aldmeri influence on Yokuda are surely shed (pun intended)once one studies the skin-archives of the Satakals. Therein is the legend of Tall Papa's war with the Dark Elven Boethiah, and the roots of the long-standing hostilities that resulted when Hunding beat Boethiah's son in a game of limb-riddles.

82 Crodo Office of Provincial Studies, Alinor

Antabolis Hasphat (The "Chi" Prefix Fixation)

Ah, the great 82 Crodo stoops from his rarefied perch in the archives of Alinor to dabble in the mundane.

Your coy inferences to the Dark Elven Curse do you no credit. Cite your sources, sir! There is not a shred of evidence that the Dunmer were ever other than they are now, despite centuries of research and speculation. You call yourself a scholar, sir, yet you provide fodder for the ever-multiplying array of quacks and lunatics that infest the Empire.

82 Crodo (The "Chi" Prefix Fixation)

As ever, you misread me, Antabolis. I never painted a portrait of Dunmeri in the Orichalc Kingdoms of the Ebony Men; merely, I pointed out larger Aldmeri influences in Yokuda that could be useful to modern (or, in your case, armchair) etymologists.

For sources (though I need no evidence for your suddenly empty charge, now, do I?), I have already mentioned the Satakal skin-archives, but, then, you are probably not aware of these faraway and guarded treasures, as the ever-vigilant Redguards still do not lay maiden-fashion before the Empire as your cohorts do. Furthering your education, you might try Julan's "Cyrus, Maverick-King of the Alik'r," or, with the right precautions, the Direnni apologist Humo Cordelon's "Migrations of the Blude Divide in the Days of Darkest Travis." Both are alive with Aldmeri presence in Volenfell and Lost Yokuda.

You hold onto the "crafty" translation as if your life depended upon it, sir. Then again, when one must betray his own people to lick the whipping man-boots, craftiness is doubtless _not_ a character flaw.

82 Crodo Office of Provincial Studies, Alinor

Temple of the One (Apologies to the 82nd Crodo...)

... but he obviously, in his zest to strut his enmity-feathers, did not read your reply carefully. You did not challenge him on Dunmeri/Yokudan relations, but the Chimeri/Dunmeri metamorphosis.

You, Hasphat, are closer to the source than most of us, but you only need to look at the bronze faces of your Trio Pretenders, or the bronze daughter pawned to the ailing throne of Wayrest, or the bronze depictions of ancient HAIHTEOB in ancient Morrowind sites to see truth of the Chimeric past.

You will not believe me. But you will believe Sul-matuul and the memory blood-edge of his sword. Pray, Dunmer.

Temple of the One, Cyrodiil City

Moomoo (Where was Tiber Septim born?)

In Daggerfall Chronicles it was Alcaire, in High Rock. In Redguard, it is Atmora. Wherever that is. What is going on?

Qwerty (Re: He's more legend than a man...)

... and therefore the theories may vary. But would rather believe "The Pocket Guide" - after all, it's been written when Tiber Septim was still alive, and reigned.

Antabolis Hasphat (He's more legend than a man...)

The notion that Tiber Septim was born in High Rock is a lie spread by proponents of the so-called "Arcturian Heresy". Pay no attention to them.

Julianos Cennan (ANUMIDUM!)

My colleagues have already pointed out Hasphat's Imperial loyalties. And, of course, it is in the best interests of the Septim Regime to scorn the Two Tiber Theory of our Heresy. Or, rather, to fear the notion that the One True Tiber Septim is of a blood that would render theirs illegitimate.

The Warp continues in the West, and not even the Blades can help their precious Empire of lies. Era's end awaits.

All hail Arctus Underking! All hail the Brass God!


Mophar Grandalk (ANUMIDUM!)

>the notion that the One True Tiber Septim is of a blood that would render
> theirs illegitimate.

True enough and spoken like one who wishes he knew the God's honest truth, but alas, the true bloodline of Tiber Septim renders even most immortal blood illegitimate. There is more than meets the eye in Septim's blood, and any Daedra Lord will tell you, if he himself weren't afraid of the truth. Believe in my word, for I am one who knows, and one who follows the Wise Word of the Ape Man, the all knowing, the word of truth.


Xerxes Two-Balls (The Chamberlain is Mad!)

Julianos Cennan, former Chamberlain to Our Emperor Uriel Septim VII, has left the Nibenay, it seems, quite insane. Known for years of loyal service and for his part in the archiving of the Battlespire fiasco (Commission Compendium X.#1987874621876-NA109201 "Dagon Dismissals (Recent)"), Cennan's imposture was discovered by his wife this last Hearth Fire.

"Julianos has always had a passion for brass," the grieving wife told the visiting Red Templars, "I did not know that indicated Arcturian allegiance."

Cennan's present whereabouts are unknown.

He will not get far.

Beware the Brass God!

Anumidum Nil!

Xerxes Two-Balls Head Red of the Blood Dome Temple in Lesser West Sutch

Brother Guatan/ (The Chamberlain is Mad!)

Julianos Cennan is quite the sick man. I can confirm this by proof of mine own eyes. His wife, a very fair and kind Cyrodiilian herself, begged of me to perhaps heal him of his ailment. I, at first, believed it to be a mere curse or even the Flu, or plague from the home of those accursed Argonian beastmen. But, I was sadly mistaken. It proved to be more than that. It was shear madness that drove him. He stood in the corner of his room, with a sack full of clattering metals, and a brass candle holder in hand, threatening to bludgeon me with it if I came any closer. Perhaps the works of the Daedric tyrants, I do not know for sure. But I can attest to his madness. I am sorry I did not address this earlier, for his caring wife begged of me not to. By Stendarr, what have I done?

Brother Drue Guatan of the High Temple Moth

Casco Mens/ (Sighting)

We have word that Cennan has crossed the boundary of Balmora. I, Casco, swear on the Voice that he shall never leave.

Casco Mens 14th Blood. Balmora Temple.

Gallo (Sighting)

Julianos Cennan believed travelling west. The Dragon at Sutch have been informed. The filth shall be taken.


Nohept dir'Kamal (Source of Chaos- Serious Scholars Only)

My dear General Warhaft,

I found this particular passage among the papers of the Tharnatos.

"...appropriately, Padomay is just as ineffable an entity as Anu. This is how the Psijiic Order treats him, at least. His original (Aldmeris? Ehlnofex?) name is PSJJJJ, which is and was meant to be unpronounceable. The Order was founded and organized to divine Padomay's eternal and ever-changing mystery. "Sithis" is a corruption of "Psijii" which, in turn, was a derivation of the high concept PSJJJJ. Sithis was born when a nihilist sect of the already doom-ridden Chimeri merged (under Mephala’s tutelage) Daedric elements with the Inexpressible Action that was Padomay. In essence they began to revere Padomay's Chaos nature (as opposed to that of Anu, who is Order), and over the years degenerated into a thuggish mystery-cult which wanted to "murder the world." The Dark Brotherhood was born in these times-- which, in Morrowind, is known as the Morag Tong. Some of the higher-level Morag Tong maintain that they predate the Dark Brotherhood (more evidence of this later). That, in fact, they are an organization devoted to playing out the eternal interplay of Nir. Assassination, they say, is the purest celebration of joy or living. Whatever the case, the Padomay of Morrowind (and isolated Dark Brotherhood sects) is not the Padomay of Artaeum...."

Does this help your investigation at all? Are all the simulacra accounted for?

Ever your servant, Nd'K Cult of the Ancestor-Moth

Lady Enigma/ (Source of Chaos- Serious Scholars Only)

Information taking in, routed, and distributed to nearly any sector that could make anything of it. I cant believe that I understood most of it. The main lesson learned is that the Morag Tong, are some BAD mothers, and you should kiss their boot anytime you can, tee hee hee.

Lady Enigma

General Warhaft (Source of Chaos- Serious Scholars Only)

Elder Nohept,

These scholarly conundrums are outside my expertise, I'm afraid. I have uncovered nothing explicitly tying the Morag Tong to Tharnatos, but my suspicions grow stonger. They have long been given wide latitude here, rationalized as "non-interference in local customs". You would be amazed at what is permitted here. But I digress. The Tong are difficult to infiltrate or investigate quietly, as they are insular and extremely paranoid. Beyond the obvious link of the Staff to House Redoran (which has turned out to be nothing more than local scheming -- they knew nothing of the larger picture, as I thought), my agents have turned up only rumor and hearsay.

As for the simulacra, at last report the Blades were on the trail of the last three. I continue to hope that one of the nephews may have avoided the fate, and flees now from rumor of a purge. But I must say that Andrial is less optimistic, and knowing Tharnatos' thoroughness in other matters, I fear she is right. There is also the possibility that some may have been secreted like we were, as pawns for some future play we have not yet uncovered. You would be more up-to-date on those matters, however.

It is vital that you learn his true identity. We cannot fight enemies we do not know, and even he may yet prove only one actor in a great conspiracy against us. Reply soonest.