Oblivion talk:Character Optimizing

Merge with Character Creation

Well done to Willyhead for getting into the spirit of the site and creating a new article. I think, though, that it's probably redundant given the existing Character Creation page. The other problem is that it falls foul of the Style Guide, with British usages, first person comments and informal grammar. Given that it would require an almost total rewrite to fix those issues, I'd merge this one away. Any other opinions? — Unsigned comment by Rpeh (talk • contribs) at 14:01 on 22 June 2007

Right, ive sorted out the pages informal and first person issues, but i have not sorted out the American spelling, as i dont know how! So if you are American feel free to change the spelling of the guide. As for the 'merge' issues, well ill leave that for the websites pro's to decide on, but this is more of a gameplay guide that gives restricted options, while the character creation page is more designed for beginners and gives more options but is not as specific as this page. Anyway hope this guide will help any of you! Oh and any chance of you deleting the 'grammar problem' box now that ive sorted out the grammar?--Willyhead 11:25, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Cleaned up it up just a bit. cronoglenn

Okay, I think I've fixed all the spelling problems now so I've taken the cleanup tag off. For future reference, American spelling is largely a matter of leaving the "u" out of words. "Favor", "rumor" and "honor" as opposed to "Favour", "rumour" and "honour", for instance. Also, single instead of double "l"; "traveled" and "leveled" instead of "travelled" and "levelled".

You might want to try using Firefox 2 with its inbuilt spell checker. Set it to US-English and it's great at picking up Britishisms, as well as errors such as "ive" and "dont" - missing apostrophes. --Rpeh^Talk 04:24, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the advice--Willyhead 11:11, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

I've removed the merge tag. I think this article has evolved far enough away from Character Creation that a merge would now be too tricky. This page seems to be a magnet for bad spelling, however. --Rpeh^Talk 06:58, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

I'll take that as a complement;)--Willyhead 11:24, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Marking for Cleanup

I've marked this page for cleanup, as it is riddled with massive amounts of typos. I'll start the proofread tonight, and probably finish it. I don't think it'll take too long, but just in case I can't finish, other people will know it needs attention because of the markup. SubtleCynicism 22:49, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

Well, it's done. *Phew* That took a while. :) Grammar has been corrected, punctuation has been corrected, page has been reorganized in some areas, etc. I've removed the cleanup tag. SubtleCynicism 03:16, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Cheers ;)--Willyhead 06:59, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Proposal for Relocation to User Page

Saruuk, I understand your reasoning for proposing that this page be moved to Willyhead's user page and support the proposal, to an extent. However, as there is a large amount of information contained in this article that isn't necessarily available anywhere else in the site (and it has been viewed as apt previously), I would suggest an alternative, which would be to change the sections that you feel are "opinionated". However, I do feel that the article is much more encyclopedic (with the exception of the name, which I believe should be changed from "Awesome" to something less slang-ish). Please specify on what exactly is opinionated and encylopedic. --— Unsigned comment by SubtleCynicism (talk • contribs)

The entire article is riddled with colloquialisms such as 'ultimate', 'awesome', 'amazing', 'fooling around' and 'it'll'. "An Awesome Character is only truely [sic] awesome..." "...his or her fluency in almost every skill." What? Fluent means smooth or flowing. How is a skill smooth? "...damage effects will yield devastating devastating weapon attacks" It's doubly devastating! I'm all for exemplifying the devastatingness of said effects, but really... is it necessary? "...arrows essentially become "Assassin Missles" Anachronistic and misspelt. "their damage is unsurpassed." What damage? Is this supposed to be attached to something or are sentence fragments just fun now? The repeated misuse of the word 'upgrade' Upgrade as in to move to a new version or model. Or you could use the word 'increase' which would be more appropriate. Literally going out and determining that certain races, birthsigns or skills are 'unworthy' to be considered in the creation of an 'awesome character'? Hey I got news for you; The Lover, that's 10 seconds of Paralysis. That's twice as much as you'll ever do with even a million points in Illusion. The Ritual? That loserish power heals more health than a master level Restoration spell. That's a bit pompous, don't you think? Outright declaring the power are useless at high levels? Is there any factual substantiation behind these claims. Declaring that your character is too good and powerful to play oblivion on standard difficulty? He can do amazing things? No, not opinionated in the slightest. The entire basic underlying concept that "you too can attain my self proclaimed rank of 'awesomeness' by following my instructions" is both opinionated and lacks a sense of professionalism and encyclopedic merit. --Saruuk 05:34, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Hmm, looks like you've removed some of the opinionated comments while I was writing this. Ignore the sections of my above rant that relate to those omitted paragraphs. (I'm not rewording it because it took a long time to write) --Saruuk 05:38, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Actually you can cast a 10 sec paralyze spell at illusion 100 (wich is easy to reach) without the annoying 100 fatigue loss penalty. Also you can cast a restore health 100 points over 2 seconds (equal to the rituals 200 points although over a slightly longer period- but hey you can cast it more than once a day) at restoration 100. Another point is that I'm recommending birthsigns in this article rather than forcing them on you. The reason I created this article is because I couldn't find anything like it- the only article slightly similar is Character Creation wich is actually pretty different. I would greatly appreciate it if that 'move to user space' tag was deleted.--Willyhead 06:57, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

I'm not counting custom spells. I'm well aware of what custom spells can do. I can't accommodate for what could be done with custom spells, but I can definitively argue for what someone can been done with the game's default spells. But the argument was that the powers granted by birthsigns were useless. The exact words were "Birthsigns that provide Greater or Lesser powers are useful only for the early levels." That sounds like a pretty bold claim to make. That's just your opinion. Depending on the player's style of gameplay, powers could be used throughout the game. Are you suggesting that players with a different style of playing be excluded from the "awesomeness" of the article?

You can cast the 10 second paralysis or 200 hp heal at any level, without completing 7 different quests, as long as you have 100 fatigue. Using that same argument, you could argue that basically all default spells are useless, because they can be created using the spell making altar. Oh, I can hear all sorts of arguments coming like how you can use the Frostcrag Spire altar and whatnot, and if anyone is willing to roleplay that some deranged lunatic gave an escaped criminal with a magical repertoire of a flare spell the CliffNotes version of the Mages Guild, then whatever. --Saruuk 07:40, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Nah I don't think the lady/ritual birthsigns are useless, but the point I'm trying to make is that to acheive a character with the Maximum health/magicka possible without using the console would be to chose one of the recommended birthsigns and race- no opinion there, just a way of acheiving max health/magicka wich is an important part of the guide. If one chose the Ritual they would not be able to acheive the max health/magicka possible. Anybody who does not follow the recommended race/birthsign can easily follow the rest of the guide I assure you.--Willyhead 07:50, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Hey, I'm not arguing that your guide isn't any good man. I'm just pointing at that there is a lot of personal opinion included the guide as to what constitutes the 'awesome character'. --Saruuk 08:08, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Well, it's definitely better. I'm still not wild about the extreme overuse of the word "Awesome". (I count 25 times on the page, not counting the Table of Contents.) Somebody has evidently gotten rid of most of the "Ultimate"s, as that count has gone down from 30-something to just 4 now. It is this kind of language that caused me to label this page as unecyclopedic in the first place. Even having "Awesome" in the title just bothers me somewhat. This page does have some useful information and good advice on it, which is why I didn't propose it for deletion instead. But really, it still needs a lot of work to reach the level of quality expected for an article on an encyclopedic website. However, there are no such quality expectations for pages in User space, so if nobody wants to give this page the necessary improvements, it could just as easily be moved there. I'm increasingly under the opinion that most of the user-created "in-depth guides" like this should not be directly linked from the main Oblivion page. It might be better to move them all onto a new page linked from the main page, like Oblivion:In-Depth Guides or something like that. I think that if something is going to be displayed that prominently on the main pages of the site, it should conform to a level of quality deserving of that honor. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 10:27, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

I have re worded certain opinion type matters and slang so that this page is more encyclopedia-like.--Willyhead 11:22, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Reworded? You replaced the word 'awesome' with the word 'ultimate'. Exchanging one colloquialism for another does not constitute adding encyclopedic value. --Saruuk 02:23, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

• Actually I did a lot more than changing 'Awesome' to 'Ultimate' Saruuk. Read through the history and see for yourself.--Willyhead 16:59, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

I did check. And mostly, you while you did rephrase some of the passages to obtain a more encyclopedic tone, a large majority of it simply involved exchanging one colloquialism for another. --Saruuk 19:36, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

I agree with TheRealLurlock. I've had concerns about this page from its inception (see above) and despite the best efforts of its principal author it remains, at best, an article with one or two ideas and then a lot of opinion. There's just enough useful information on the page to justify its existence, but the link from the Oblivion front page gives it too much prominence. On the other hand, moving articles like this to the User namespace means that they will be omitted from some searches, and it must be admitted that there are users that will come to the site precisely for this kind of information. I believe Lurlock's suggestion of an intermediary page would work well. If nobody else has a better suggestion, or a reason not to do it, I suggest he makes the change. --Rpeh^Talk 12:45, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

I always wondered why this page was linked from the main Oblivion page. I agree that something like an "In-Depth Guides" would be the best move here. It's a good guide that lots of people will want access too, but despite recent vast improvements, it's still too unprofessional to be linked directly from the main page. --Eshe 14:13, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Yes, well, I'll leave the location of the site to all of you. However, once it's set in the place where it's going to be--under a new In-Depth Guides page, or whatever--I'm more than willing to help in the encylopedic formatting. After spending so much time editing the page, I don't think I can allow myself not to. As for the actual work, I support the removal of "Awesome" from the title, as I stated before. Last night I added a more focused introduction paragraph that I think better explains the purpose of this page, so if someone's considering renaming the page, try and get it to emulate the ideas expressed in that paragraph, if you could.

Really, I think that the only large cause of the page's unencyclopedic nature is the frequent use of slang. If we remove all of that, I'm almost positive it will look ten times better. SubtleCynicism 15:03, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

Well, I went ahead and created the In-Depth Guides page, and moved them all onto it. I left a link on the main Oblivion page. It's under "Cheats and Secrets" for now, couldn't think of a better place for it. Might add Hints down there as well. Any other thoughts? --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 21:08, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

I’ve read most of the articles on this page and there seems to be fair bit of disagreement on many things such as descriptions, spellings, page locations and so on. This is a public page that is editable, so what do you expect? People are going to disagree, make really dumb statements and despite all the tools at our disposal, make spelling and grammatical errors. I myself am no exception. Even using MS Word to pre-write my two cents worth, there is going to be something in this response that is going to irk somebody.

With that out of the way, I don’t think it really maters where you relocate the page, just as long as the link to it remains easy to find. I would also like to compliment the Wiki people who run and maintain the web site for the great job they do. I personally use this site for assisting me to greatly enhancing my game play experience.--AdventurerBob 14:59, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

Now that the page has been moved from the Main Oblivion page (Along with the other guides), does that mean I can delete the 'Userspace' tag?--Willyhead 09:49, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

Why such heavy armor for an awesome character?

Maybe I am missing something, but is there a big enough reason for using the heaviest heavy armor for an awesome character? I mean if he/she is already immune to physical and magical attacks, what is the difference between using light and heavy armor sets? Isnt the heaviest heavy armor just a huge encumbrance, while even the heaviest light armor leaves more than a _hundred_ encumbrance points free, so the character can carry out a lot more loot from the dungeons. And even if it should brake, then it is very easy for him/her to repair it by just using one unbreakable hammer... Just a thought.

At lvl 100 there is no encumberance penalty to heavy armor. The two armor types are pretty similar except heavy armor breaks at a slower rate. So in the end heavy armor is only slightly better- there isn't much difference between the two. --Willyhead 08:41, 31 August 2007 (EDT)

Too strong, I guess

Wow, I recently wanted to check out if I could get the armor of the palace guards, so I saved and attacked him. It turned out I couldn't take it off him. Just reload the game, you'd say, but my interest was piqued when I found out that I wasn't even half dead. There were 3 other palace guards hitting me with swords, 1 palace guard shooting arrows through me and 3 regular imperial watchmen shooting me for a while and i barely had a scratch. I pumped up the difficulty to the max and could walk all the way up to the Imperial Library with relative ease (I had to use the Unlock-command, luckily it worked. I only knew it worked for Morrowind so it was a guess, really). After a while I got the message I shouldn't get untill the Ultimate Heist quest, but I was planning on recovering the previous savegame anyway.

I still have fun in the game, even though I am only at a level where Glass weapons just started appearing, but has anyone else noticed something like this? Being pretty overpowered even with the difficulty slider all the way to the right?

Just an idea

What if... you had your 100% spell absorbtion and then created an area of effect spell, cast on self, which would then smother anyone near you but also replenish your magicka? How much of the magcika used in casting would you regain from the "damage" caused by the spell? Someone must tell me I'm wrong cos it sounds too good to be true. Thnx

Unfortunately it wouldn't work. You cannot cast area spells on yourself and you cannot absorb your own spells. Nice idea though.--Willyhead 07:34, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Watching Bonuses

Did your awesome character acquire the skill bonus from watching combat. For example, watching Branwen and her partner for +5 H2H, or the 2 blades sparring for a blade and block bonus I believe. On this character, did you also save Jeelius (From Lake Arrius Caverns) and keep Baurus alive after getting the 4th Mythic Dawn Book and get their skill bonuses?

67.87.134.255 00:47, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

That doesn't really matter, as the only skills that actually provide bonuses above skill level 100 are Acrobatics and Athletics.

Races and Birthsigns

To get the highest health, you should actually be more concerned about getting a higher maximum level since the equation is 2x Endurance (capped at 100 no matter which way you level it) + 10% End at each level. So as long as your max level is at least 1 level higher per 5 points of endurance you didn't start with, it is better. On a similar note, the Thief birthsign is the best choice, because it will allow you to have 10 more levels of 5/5/5 attribute increases instead of 5/5/1 increases. 68.117.22.199 11:06, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Actually If you realy wanted to get the Maximum health it gets a little tricky. I am virtually certian that by using these directions it can be acheived. You can customize your race and birthsign with minimal effect on health but I strongly reccomend that you choose ednurance in your class. Then complete the Knights of the Nine Quest so you can get Mara's blessing which semi permanently raises your endurance by 5 points. Then level up with 5X multipliers in Endurance until you get to 100 endurance with the blessing. Then remove the blessing and level up with a 5X multiplier and then add the blessing again. Then recieve felldew Withdrawl so that your endurance is lowered to 95. Then level up again with a 5X multiplier to endurance. Your Endurance should be at 100, so remove the blessing so you have 95 then level up again with a 5X multiplier to endurance. Then activate the Chalice of Reversal, you should now have 115 endurance and the highest amount of health in the game without cheating (Though you technically used exploits). My High Elf when done with the process had a health of 335 at level 14 and health of 566 at level 35.

I think you should add the thief birthsign anyway. Luck is an atribute that is hard to increase. Itaipee 14:38, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Shivering Isles gear

Shouldnt the awesome character's equitment be changed to reflect the Shivering Isles? After all Madness and Amber armour is even more powefull than Daedric and Glass. And I'm pretty sure that the Duskfang/Dawnfang sword is more powerfull than any other in the game. Or maybe SI equitment should be listed separately for those who dont have the expanion. - Arandil

Yeah, I suppose it would be worth listing the Shivering Isles armor on the page (for those who have SI). As for Dawfang/Duskfang being the best swords in the game, well that's more a matter of opinion. I personally prefer this one.--Willyhead^/t 19:14, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Done.--Willyhead^/t 19:18, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

In other words...

When it comes to skills, my awesome (blunt using) character should choose skills that are

A) Easy to level up and are skills I would normally use (such as blunt) B) Easy to level up and are skills I would normally never use (such as blade) C) Does not matter if they are easy to level up as long as they appeal me D) Does not matter if they are to easy to level up since they should not appeal to me. They will give that extra push to the skills I would never use considering I would always use different skills

Please explain the logic behind the skill choosing when making a custom class. I'm going to use the blunt using, combat preferred character as an example. Using that as an example, what skills should be chosen?

Someone explain? Please? — Unsigned comment by 76.108.246.88 (talk) on 1 March 2010

Umm, I don't understand where you're taking these ideas/statements from. The Custom Class section seems more or less clear to me. Basically when you choose a certain specialisation all the skills of that specialisation receive a +5 boost. If you wish to achieve a very high level it is advised to choose skills that are not in the specialisation you chose. This is because you have a lower skill value, which translates in more level-ups. If, on the other hand, you want to reach 100 quicker, it is advisable to choose skills from your chosen specialisation. --SerCenKing ^Talk 20:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Marksman:WTF?

Hey idunno if its just me, this is gonna make me sound dumb but; I tried using each of the default classes in turn - and discovered how incredibly powerful Bows are. the damage is bow + arrow, maybe even add poison or an enchantment (to the bow as WELL as the arrows) and couple that with a modest sneak skill, and you can empty dungeons faster than... ummm... ANYWAYS, I just thought that I should inform the general populace. If this IS makeing me sound dumb/noobish, delete this. Really though, try it if you have'nt.

Yes, we are all aware of the sniper approach. I personally prefer Blades and destruction magic, but your call really 184.77.194.254 23:03, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

High elf

I was just wondering if you shouldn't remove female high elfs since they have actually 10 less in endurence. Sorry for bad spelling.

Poor descriptors

I had to click on the respective Orc and Breton articles in order to learn which was better between "Good Magic Resistance" and "Decent Magic Resistance." Perhaps this is because I'm old enough to remember when "Decent!" was oft-said by youngsters to mean "Rad!" or "Kewl!" (or whatever the kids are saying these days as a byword for "excellent"). Or, perhaps it's because most writers tend to use the standard "Poor/Fair/Good/Excellent" scale.

Honestly, "decent?" — Unsigned comment by 174.0.106.101 (talk) at 00:34 on 31 May 2010

Okay, look at the title of the page. That said, I agree with you: "decent" in colloquial speech can mean either "Fair" or "Pretty damned good". I'd support switching it to "Fair" or some similarly less-ambiguous term. Then again, it sounds like I'm about as old as you are. :) ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 17:23, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Stuck at level 46

I just finished increasing all my awesome character's attributes to 100 and i am stuck at level 46. When i sleep, it tells me i can't go beyond perfection. I got +5+5+1 bonuses as the article told me to but got stuck at level 46 rather then making it to level 55 as the article told me i would? how is this? did i miss something? --76.68.165.123 02:39, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Once you achieve 100 in all of your attributes, you may not advance any further in level. The attributes are hardcapped at 100 for levelling purposes and there is nothing else to put points into. — Unsigned comment by 69.17.4.186 (talk)

Health 750 or 730?

The page states you get 750 points of health (730 +20 from equipement). Where is this +20 comming from, shouldn't it be just 730?--70.51.189.223 22:23, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

This article was largely the creation of one user, and is certainly one of the less-checked items on the site. If you think you've found a mistake, please feel free to correct it - but check your own work first and don't guess. rpeh •T•C•E• 23:16, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

The +20 Health is a result of the +10 Fortify Endurance from the Escutcheon of Chorrol. — Unsigned comment by 65.188.214.212 (talk) on 25 April 2012

I calculated (and double checked by forcing levels/stats via console/leveling up with a bed ingame with a special save file) that the max base HP a person can have at level 53 is 721. At level 53. FIFTY THREE. That's with a race w/ 50 endurance, +10 sign, +5 class, +5 Knights of the Nine boost. That's also assuming a perfect +5 endurance increase per level up, etc etc. Unless the person who made this page used the Felldew exploit or did some other funky, cheaty method, that HP is not possible, and DEFINITELY not possible at such a low level. Also, the guy's proposed build doesn't even have a +10 endurance sign! And the race isn't even one that gives +10 endurance bonus! That is a 20 point deficiency in endurance. It is so far from an ideal setup for max hp and it's hitting a higher max hp than a perfect setup? WTF?! How such a large mistake can slip past all editors is a mystery considering this game is 8 years old now. This page should be more closely checked, otherwise I agree, this page needs to be moved to user page, it does not belong as an official article.108.223.242.103 06:14, 2 July 2014 (GMT)Dark_wizzie

Not choosing the specialization that is relevant to your main skills?

"[...] you will want to choose the specialization that governs the least amount of your major skills in order to achieve a higher level. When choosing your skills, keep in mind that selecting skills that do not fall under the specialization you have chosen for your class (ex. Combat skills for a Magic class, Magic skills for a Combat class, etc.) is the most advisable method, because it directly translates to faster leveling."

It might be obvious, but I just don't get it at the moment. Could someone explain exactly why? EDIT: OH... that explains it. Thank you. — Unsigned comment by 109.99.107.195 (talk) at 06:17 on 21 February 2012

The specialization you choose gives a bonus to its governed skills I think its 15 points added to it but I'm not positive about it (Eddie The Head 06:29, 21 February 2012 (UTC))

what kind of weapon are you talking about? it says weapon daedrick/amber/madness but are we talkin a dagger or shortsword? — Unsigned comment by 216.16.42.114 (talk) at 22:38 on 26 March 2012

Example Character's Level

For the anonymous editor that cannot accept that level 46 is correct. First it is an optimized character, not a perfect character, and a 'perfect character' would take advantage of the ability to level to 180 or so and have so much health they could walk around naked and survive any combat situation. Level 46 is the level that an efficient leveler would have 100 in all attributes, at which point they could not level again, and at the point of reaching level 46 they would not have 100 in all skills, but would complete them after that point so that they would have both. Also, 46 is more than optimal for any character in terms of leveled rewards or loot, and there is no real benefit to the extra 9 levels achieved by delaying the point at which you maximise your abilities, which again is the point at which you cannot level anymore. If you read the page on character creation about maximum level you will see that having 100 in all major skills does not in fact prevent you from leveling up again (and also that it is possible to lower your attributes temporarily and re-level, though again there is no real benefit). In short a level 46 character can have 100 in all attributes and all skills, as well as a level 41 character if you choose the setup for that when creating your character. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 01:41, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

From the anonymous editor to Silence is Golden:

First: I was unaware of the distinction between 'optimised [the earliest level one can reach 100]' and 'perfect' [what i assume is the maximum level allowed]. Perhaps that distinction should be outlined in the article.

Second: Legally, the maximum level the character should be able to reach is their maximum skill gains [70 from conj + 65 from des + 75 from rest + 75 from speech + 75 from marks + 75 from LA + 75 from sneak = 510 total, then 30 from oghma = 540 total major skillpoint, so max level 55].

I do not understand how a 'perfect character' could reach level 180 without exploiting [e.g. visiting jail to intentionally decreases skills and attributes] or precuring a giant stack of skill books. I assume that level 180 is only possible from exploiting? If so, how is this relevant for a guide that doesn't promote exploiting? [or is the distinction between 'optimised' and 'perfect' made for this reason?']

Edit: reading up, i see that the character is prohibited from levelling once all their attributes are 100 as they have attained 'perfection'. Interesting. Perhaps the guide should mention this too.

Third: The maximum health for the Character calculation. Given it starts with 45 Endurance, it'll start at 90 Health. Gaining 5 points of endurance each level results in 10 [5x2] + [Current Endurance/10] rounded down.

So:

L2: 50 Endurance, 105 Health, 15 HP gain.

L3: 55 Endurance, 120 Health, 15 HP gain.

L4: 60 Endurance, 136 Health, 16 HP gain.

L5: 65 Endurance, 152 Health, 16 HP gain.

L6: 70 Endurance, 169 Health, 17 HP gain.

L7: 75 Endurance, 186 Health, 17 HP gain.

L8: 80 Endurance, 204 Health, 18 HP gain.

L9: 85 Endurance, 222 Health, 18 HP gain.

L10: 90 Endurance, 241 Health, 19 HP gain.

L11: 95 Endurance, 260 Health, 19 HP gain.

L12: 100 Endurance, 280 Health, 20 HP gain.

After this point, the character will gain 10HP per level. So at 13, 290 HP. At 14, 300 HP. At 16, 320 HP. I currently have a level 16 that started with 45 endurance [a Breton with the warrior sign], that focused on levelling Endurance for maximum Health. I can verify that they currently have 320HP at level 16.

Therefore, at level 46: 620 HP, plus 20 from equipment = 640 HP total.

Shouldn't this then be the correct total?

Also: A comment from 2 years ago.

I calculated (and double checked by forcing levels/stats via console/leveling up with a bed ingame with a special save file) that the max base HP a person can have at level 53 is 721. At level 53. FIFTY THREE. That's with a race w/ 50 endurance, +10 sign, +5 class, +5 Knights of the Nine boost. That's also assuming a perfect +5 endurance increase per level up, etc etc. Unless the person who made this page used the Felldew exploit or did some other funky, cheaty method, that HP is not possible, and DEFINITELY not possible at such a low level. Also, the guy's proposed build doesn't even have a +10 endurance sign! And the race isn't even one that gives +10 endurance bonus! That is a 20 point deficiency in endurance. It is so far from an ideal setup for max hp and it's hitting a higher max hp than a perfect setup? WTF?! How such a large mistake can slip past all editors is a mystery considering this game is 8 years old now. This page should be more closely checked, otherwise I agree, this page needs to be moved to user page, it does not belong as an official article.108.223.242.103 06:14, 2 July 2014 (GMT)Dark_wizzie

Please do not interpret any of this as direct vandalism: I am just curious as to the reasoning.

The very high levels can be achieved within the normal bounds of the game, though taken to an extreme level. The section on "Leveling Up" outlines that an optimized character will have leveled efficiently and points to that page for a proper explanation on how to do that, and also an explanation on when certain maximum levels can be achieved. Intentionally under-leveling your attributes has so little benefit that you either do not do it or do it to the maximum; an optimized character has no need to procure the extra health as there is almost nothing that can harm them (100% or more in spell absorbtion, reflect damage, resist disease and poison). At this time I can't explain the health discrepancy, my maths agrees that ~640 seems to be the right amount based on the endurance value alone. Lastly, endurance is not a vital stat once you have all the damage mitigating armor and enchantments, though you do still want a large pool for the rare times you do receive a lot of damage. In fact given that health isn't a serious requirement, the boost to your available magic with Altmer and Bretons is far more valuable, even if you aren't playing a mage (but occasionally still use magic). Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 03:38, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

From the anonymous editor to Silence is Golden:

Right. Again, I cannot see how one can achieve a level higher than 55 within 'the normal bounds of the game', unless 'the normal bounds' encompass a glitch or exploit [like the aforementioned jail malarkey]. I suppose the definition of 'normal' and 'exploit' then become subjective. Either way: Optimisation is the theme of the build, and so the optimal level by the given criteria I suppose is 46. Fair enough.

Once the character has the damage mitigating equipment, then Health becomes a fairly irrelevant stat yes. This seems to be mentioned in the guide: One can strive for Maximum Health/Magicka doing whichever they wish, and several races are suggested for an Optimal Character. Which description one chooses to define their 'Optimal' character is then again a bit subjective, depending on what criteria they want to use. No dramas there.

I don't know where the 750 Health thing is from. The calculation for this is NOT subjective. It should probably be changed to 640. :)

As an aside: I myself have a Max-Difficulty build and guide, though not on UESP. The link is here.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=873311868

Perhaps I should import it to UESP one day. I'm a bit of a noob at coding though. :) — Unsigned comment by 101.191.26.88 (talk) at 03:54 on 12 March 2017

Its best not to distract ourselves with talk of whether something is exploitative, save to say it is possible on all systems by using an intended feature of the game. The rough workings out can be found on that talk page if the article isn't clear enough.

Now my brain is waking up instead of shutting down I was able to throw a quick working formula at the health. I've also checked all the equipment listed and nothing adds up to 750. 640 (including 20 from equipment, the Escutcheon) is the only figure I can get. I've never really understood health in Oblivion, which isn't helped by the Health page neglecting to mention anything to do with increasing Endurance during leveling.

The most important thing to remember is that this is an optimized character, not the optimized character. Given that even magic and magic resistance can be brought to high enough numbers on any character it could be suggested that you make your character based on the dismissed powers that they have rather than the white whale that is the stat boosts (a character with 30 endurance will only forgo 37 maximum health if they maximise endurance asap, and at level 9 will overtake a character with 65 endurance who has never leveled it). So the only real advice for endurance is simply to maximise it asap, whatever your starting amount. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 14:19, 12 March 2017 (UTC)