Lore talk:Wrothgarian Mountains

Split

Details of the geographic region of Wrothgar in northeastern High Rock need to be split from the Wrothgarian Mountain range in central High Rock. --Enodoc (talk) 09:35, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Sadly, I don't think we should be separating them, Zenimax outright states Wrothgar and the Wrothgarian mountain range is the same thing. There is three sources of information that implies this and one source that directly confirms Wrothgar as being the Mountain range with undeniable evidence. The better idea is to list the fact that the Wrothgarian Mountain range extends from central to Northern High Rock, and use the Maps as the source of this information. As that allows us to merge the two versions of the Wrothgarian mountains in an entire range that expands across half the province as ESO has clearly done.

The three sources of info on this, Lore:Morkuldin Visitor's Observations Online:Letter from Thukhozod and the one that is the main reason why I don't think we should split the articles, Lore:Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen and Tutor Riparius Answer Your Questions Also this ESO loading screen text says this as well, The Wrothgar Mountains have been home to northern Tamriel's Orcs since the beginning of recorded history. Invading armies have marched into these peaks countless times to suppress the fractious Orcs, but the clans always rise again.TheVampKnight (talk) 10:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Wrothgar in ESO explicitly includes the Druadach Mountains in the northeastern portions. Old Orsinium was shown to be firmly in the Wrothgarian Mountains, but places like Sorrow are 100% not Wrothgarian. We should split. Jacksol (talk) 15:57, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I was looking at the lore page for Duadach Mountains, It states its inbetween the borders of High Rock and Skyrim. Sorrow, is in-between Farrun and Jehanna, and Jehanna borders outside of the playable zone in ESO going by the map meaning there is a small chunk of Highrock Zenimax can still do to include places like Jehanna and Cloud Rest. Even though there is something called Jehanna Docks on the left side of Sorrow that isn't where Jehanna is located. We don't know how far the Duadach Mountains extend into High Rock, when its directly stated to be at the border. The one source, does state, that the portal to the Fa-Nuit-Hen's realm is Eastern Wrothgar and the mountains there where Endoc and Jacksol both think is the Duadach Mountains is directly stated to in the foothills of the Wrothgaran Mountains, proving that it can't be in the Druadach mountains. So what we see of the Wrothgar zone is all in the Wrothgaran mountains according to Zenimax canonically.

Tamrielics, you're sure to find the Maelstrom Arena the most welcoming! If you're up for the challenge, you'll find the portal to my handsome little realm currently anchored in the foothills of the Wrothgarian Mountains, just northeast of where the Orcs are building their new capital city of … Orsinium, I think they call it. The gate to Maelstrom might take a little finding, but it's worth the search! Trust me, I'm a Daedra."TheVampKnight (talk) 02:31, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

If we're using Loremaster's Archives as the be-all, end-all, I suppose we should also still be calling Blackwood Murkmire. The Druadach mountains are also referenced in Wrothgar in game, so its not as if they not longer exist. The Maelstrom Arena is 100% in the Druadach mountains, because that's the name of that mountain range. Also, like, Fa-Nuit-Hen is notoriously bad at retaining literally any information that's not fite, so he's not a super reliable source for much of anything anyway.

We don't 'think' that's the Druadach mountains, those are the Druadach mountains. Jacksol (talk) 03:01, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Alright that is good enough for me, to support doing the split, if there is an npc stating it then lets do it thank you for letting me know about it.TheVampKnight (talk) 03:20, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

There are more sources in Wrothgar that call the eastern peaks the Druadach Mountains, for example this book, so evidence that they are just that is rather solid. But I'm not sure whether we should really split. NPCs and books all over seem to use terms Wrothgar, Wrothgar Mountains, and Wrothgarian Mountains interchangeably. And while the eastern mountain range is technically Druadach, its western slopes are also in Wrothgar, so you could well call it "Wrothgarian mountains" without capitalizing the M. While we could have a separate article about the mountains that stretch from the Old Orsinium to Kurog's Orsinium under the name Wrothgarian Mountains, this is not (or at least not exclusively) what most in-universe users of the term refer to. I would rather have a sentence somewhere in the article body explaining that the actual Wrothgarian Mountains go along the region's southwestern border. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 18:17, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Mark me down for split. -Dcsg (talk) 23:28, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Vordur Steel-Hammer at first I didn't agree with the split, but given we do have lore the zone encompasses both mountain ranges that changed my mind because then it is its own unique thing, as its not fully in one but not fully in the other. Enodoc and Jack both think we need to split and Dcsg as well. I don't want my work that I put into the split to go to waste either as there is stuff I still want to do with Wrothgar and stuff I want to add into it. Nor do I want this to take months either, so I'm actually hoping we can get a consensus on this so the split can happen. But if not there there is other things we could do that we could agree on.TheVampKnight (talk) 00:05, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

(←) I don't think there's any need to split this article. As Vordur said, the two terms are used interchangeably. It is the same region. —⁠Legoless (talk) 00:06, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Fair point, but in that case I feel we should at least rename the article to simply be named 'Wrothgar' instead, as it incorporates more than the actual Wrothgarian Mountains. Jacksol (talk) 01:27, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

I'd agree with Vordur. It can be explained better the term "Wrothgar" is colloquial, but "Wrothgar Mountains" is sometimes used to refer to the entire region, but strictly speaking the proper "Wrothgarian Mountain range" runs along the western and southern borders. - Jimeee (talk) 09:06, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree with the split. Also I wouldn't take a daedra as the most reliable source for Tamriel's geography.Zebendal (talk) 00:51, 8 September 2021 (UTC)