Lore talk:Daedric Equipment

Material

Is this actually a material? I was under the impression that Dædric equipment is simply Ebony thrown in with a Dædric heart rather than a material in and of itself and its own right. I see that Heavy Armor Forging is cited, but this does not seem to mention a Dædric material of any sort—only Dædric armor, which it only says is made from ebony. While it mentions the use of a Dædra's heart, this seems to be only in connexion to armor rather than a distinct class of metal. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 22:17, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Daedric is in a way a material in the similar way an alloy is considered. as you said ebony is mixed in with a daedric heart and it becomes its own material thanks to that combination, much like the binding of two metals makes an alloy. Zebendal (talk) 22:22, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

But I see no evidence of this in the book cited—all it says it that the combination of ebony and the Dædra's heart produces Dædric armor rather than any unique alloy, and I see nothing in the book implying anything otherwise. Is there a specific passage that involves the creation of an alloy? All I am seeing is "Ebony is the principal material, but at the right moment a dædra's heart must be thrown in". To me, this does not bespeak an alloy or even the creation of a specific material: only an instruction manual to a specific type of armour. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 22:33, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

(←) How would you describe Daedric then since its used in both Armor and weaponry? Zebendal (talk) 23:03, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Morrowind dialogue would imply that Daedric is to Ebony as Steel is to Iron, that is, it's a refined version of the material.

"Daedric weapons are made from raw ebony which has been refined using the craft and magical substances of the lesser minions of Oblivion. The process is not a pleasant one for the Daedra involved, and the weapons retain echoes of preternaturally prolonged suffering endured during manufacture. Daedric weapons are the most rare and expensive weapons known in Tamriel."

We don't currently have a lore page for steel, but what little information exists appears to be covered by the iron page. One solution could be to redirect Lore:Steel to Lore:Iron and Lore:Daedric to Lore:Ebony and explain them there. I see no issue with separate pages though. —Dillonn241 (talk) 00:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

I can create a Lore:Steel page if you want me to. Zebendal (talk) 00:48, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

If there's enough information, then by all means. It should at least be a redirect. —Dillonn241 (talk) 00:55, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

The query, which is to say "How would you describe Dædric then since its used in both Armor and weaponry", is predicated on the assumption that "Dædric" is a unique material in and of itself. The source cited by this page, Heavy Armor Forging, does not make out Dædric to be a unique material. In fact, every entry in it save steel plate (not steel) is mentioned as pertaining to a unique material. Dædric, however, is not mentioned. Instead, Dædric armor is. And this is listed as pertaining solely to Ebony. The interpretation I would draw from this is that the Dædra's heart does not create any alloy—merely applies properties to the product described by Heavy Armor Forging: Dædric Armor (no metal or material is mentioned). I do not believe that the extancy of 'Dædric' as a material is a necessary precept of this page. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 02:13, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

(←) So what do you want me to change?Zebendal (talk) 05:46, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

"Daedric" might not be a unique material in itself, but I still think a page for it is warranted (as would be steel), give its prominence as an armor/weapon type in the games. However, I think the current page is mixing up two things, namely daedric equipment as in the equipment crafted by mortals from ebony and daedra hearts, and daedric equipment as in the equipment used by the forces of Oblivion. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 10:57, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Fullerton; there appears to be no indication that "Daedric" exists, in and of itself, as a material. Rather, it is an adjective describing a particular group of equipment, most of which, from a material perspective, are probably made of ebony. Sarthes also makes a good point that it is probably worth clarifying the difference between mundane Daedric and true Daedric weapons and armour. --Enodoc (talk) 17:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

I would be more comfortable with this page if it confined itself to describing Daedric equipment and specified itself more to armor and equipment. I believe that fundamentally, the problem is that the page assumes "Daedric" to be a unique material when, as Enodoc says, it is a descriptor applied to various forms of arms and armor. I would prefer it if this page were to propound the details of the equipment rather than making unwarranted extrapolated assumptions of alloy status. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 19:41, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

If the page is being based off the refinery process of an existing mineral (ebony), I think that this page should either become a page for the various Daedric armor types (standard Daedric, Xivkyn, Soul-Shriven, Huntsman, Dremora) or it should redirect to Lore:Ebony and have its own separate paragraph there. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 02:52, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

(←) the daedric style motif states the following line "Thus the armor and weapons of such Daedra as the Dremora, Xivilai, and Golden Saints—what Doctor Lupus calls the "humanoid" Daedra—consist of familiar Tamriel-style cuisses" so would you all say daedric armor is a general term for armor all daedra use with the variant dremora use the most known? If that's the case, then I agree with the various Daedric armor types being listed such as soul shriven, xivkyn, and others as those armor types have their own lore worthy backstories as to what daedric princes they belong to. Zebendal (talk) 03:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

The new dremora motif also seems to have given the more known daedric armor the name dremora so we have a distinction now of what daedric armor we are familiar with.

I would suggest that if this page were to become an umbrellum for Daedric equipment of all stripes and varieties, it adopt the name "Daedric Equipment" rather than "Daedric", as the former is descriptive of the page's subject whilst the latter is simply an adjective. Additionally, if the page were to be renamed to Daedric equipment, then it should contain descriptions of the various types of Daedra and what their equipment pertains to, as "Daedric Equipment" is less an umbrellum and more so a 'big-tent'. If this is implemented, the assumption of "Daedric"'s status as a material should be dropped and the page refocused more appropriately. I wish to note that if this is enacted, there is no reason to mention the various materials and crafting processes which apparently exist from Iron to Ebony to Rubedite to Daedra hearts (and other Daedric dead offcuts). However, I do not see how the Dremora motif forms connexion between the Daedric equipment appearing in Skyrim and all other games preceding ESO, so I would request clarification on the claim that "The new dremora motif also seems to have given the more known daedric armor the name dremora so we have a distinction now of what daedric armor we are familiar with." Do note that I would prefer to hear more discussion on the subject of creating an umbrellum page for Daedric equipment before I could claim being comfortable in the implementation of this. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 09:23, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm late to this discussion but I do think "Daedric Equipment" is a more accurate article title. I've added a move tag. —⁠Legoless (talk) 13:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Would a diambig be appropriate here with daedric linking to both daedra and daedric equipment?Zebendal (talk) 18:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I can see how that would be useful. —⁠Legoless (talk) 22:16, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

A disambig could potentially link to Daedric Alphabet as well since it's conceivable that the term "Daedric" could be used to refer to something written in Daedric. — Wolfborn↝^(Howl) 02:01, 26 November 2020 (UTC)