General talk:Demographics

Missing Data

Sadly, I see no data listed for Arena and Daggerfall. I have those games, so what are the criteria for the census? ⌈Uniblab 21:35, 6 December 2006 (EST)⌋

I merely counted the number of NPCs of each race in the games. (Not counting generic guards and such) I'm not sure how feasable that is in the earlier games, since from what I understand, Daggerfall's NPCs were randomly generated? Also, since they cover multiple provinces, you'd have to divide them up to be relevant on the "by region" section. Not knowing much about those games, I'm not sure how much useful data can be extracted from them. I know also that my data for Redguard is incomplete - I based it on the Redguard:Characters page here, which I'm told is far from comprehensive. Would like to see more complete info for that game as well. Another problem, of course, stems from the fact that Orcs did not exist as a playable race until Morrowind, so I'm not sure how you'd correlate the Orc population in the earlier games, since they were just wild creatures like goblins back then. Anyhow, I know the Orc numbers are off, because I don't know enough about Orsinium to hazard a guess as to their population. Anyhow, any help you can give would be appreciated. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 01:04, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Is Orsinium not in High Rock?

I believed that Orsinium was in the mountains in High Rock. This article (above the bottom graph) says Hammerfell. Should this be changed? Or is Orsinium actually part of Hammerfell? Dio 225 03:55, 15 April 2007 (GMT)

You may be right, I knew it was one of the western provinces that starts with 'H'. Feel free to correct it if you're sure about that. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:37, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Summerset Isles

The Summerset Isles has the Altmer population listed as being only 55% of the total population. Though I understand there is no game data providing a likely percentage, I would believe the Altmer percentage would be much higher. The Altmers, to be blunt, are complete xenophobes and do not want other races on their land (except to do the dirty work). I also believe that the only place non-Altmer are allowed to reside is the city of Alinor (if even there) and I do not think Alinor would make up that much of the population (45%). — Unsigned comment by 216.68.188.175 (talk) at 00:54 on 27 February 2008 (GMT)

I also remeber a savant saying that in mainland Morrowind Dunmers are in much larger concentration(Vvardenfell, from wich the data were taken, was inhabited by people of all races looking for opportunity in the east), but since the numbers are not written(much like in the case of Summerset Isles) we can only guess the numbers...

P.S. the Dunmer are comlete xenophobes too Kertaw48 21:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

That section is baseless speculation (which, unlike much speculation, draws bad conclusions) and should be deleted.132.162.76.105 16:19, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Valenwood

I looked at the documents that provided the information for Valenwood's Population, and I was surprised The Black Arrow series was not used. Though there are not many individuals introduced, it does show that there are some Imperial Duchies in the province, which might affect the earlier estimates on population percentage.— Unsigned comment by 216.68.188.175 (talk) at 18:37 on 8 March 2008 (GMT)

Tabell

The tabell in the bottom of the page with % from every area looks a little strange to me, I have made a change on my testpage should I switch to the "new one" or should it be as it is? -Goblin lair 09:31, 14 September 2008

I made the change, as you can see on the "diff" it wasn't that much of a change. -Goblin lair 10:32, 14 September 2008

Vvardenfell as demographic model

"Rhe Morrowind game only covers the area of Vvardenfell, not the Morrowind mainland, which would likely have more foreigners living there." - thats blatantly false. Vvardenfell had only recently been opened to settlement, drawing settlers from all over the Empire. Hence, Vvardenfell is a region with a very, very high share of foreigners. The Mainland would have far less foreigners. It also means, using 55% for the respective mainr ace as base for provincial demographics is wrong. — Unsigned comment by 79.220.204.45 (talk) at 15:36 on 8 March 2009 (GMT)

I agree. Vvardenfell attracts so many foreigners because the Empire is dying to get at the mineral wealth. The other reason for all the foreigners is... Bethesda thought all Dunmer would be boring. And that is why this epically-fudged article shouldn't be in lore. It's diametrically opposed to the very notion of lore.74.65.142.202 17:37, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

The population of mainland Morrowind is probably closer to that of Mournhold than to what you see in Vvardenfell. Skyrim's is probably reasonably close to what you saw in Solstheim. And why are the guards excluded? Are bandits excluded too? What about NPC vampires? What's the basis for excluding generic NPCs just because they're not important to a quest and therefore not named? Shivering Isles isn't even part of Tamriel. Are we trying to extrapolate the population of Oblivion based upon what we see in Sheogorath's Madhouse? Sure, the Shivering Isles seem to have an awful lot of Bosmer when Dunmer are the ones that worship Daedra, but still, the information isn't useful to figuring out the population of Tamriel. And how likely is it that Dunmer are going to be present in large numbers in Black Marsh and Elseweyr? — Unsigned comment by Danjohnston1980 (talk • contribs) on 14 November 2010

This is all guesswork and utterly unproductive. The page counts the NPCs it does because that's how TheRealLurlock did it when he wrote the page. If you don't like that, tough. rpeh •T•C•E• 03:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Calm down, calm down. It's all in good fun. I realize it doesn't have to be realistic because it is, after all, a video game. Let's just have fun with it and wink at the absurdities inherent in any speculation on what the "reality" is in a completely made up world. DJ — Unsigned comment by Danjohnston1980 (talk • contribs) at 11:36 on 1 December 2010 (GMT)

They were probably not included because the guards all share the same NPC. It is doubtful that house hlaalu only accepts dunmer as guards and the empire only accepts imperials. — Unsigned comment by 85.191.86.135 (talk) at 19:39 on 23 August 2011 (GMT)

Discrepancy

(moved from the article)

(Note: The numbers in the table may not be correct, as there is a discrepancy in the Oblivion demographic table.) — Unsigned comment by Kage (talk • contribs) on 8 March 2010

I've moved this because it's unhelpful. What discrepancy? What's the problem, exactly? Either fix it or post some details so that somebody else can, please. rpeh •T•C•E• 23:07, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Imperial Race

It's worth noting too that Imperials, the race that rules Tamriel, wasn't playable until Morrowind. Doesn't Arena's manual even refer to Cyrodil as a province without a native race? Daggerfall and Arena would undoubtedly cause an undercount in Imperials because of this. And NPC Dunmer in Daggerfall could be messed up due to Daggerfall not taking into account the Dunmer skin color, making Helseth and Barenziah, for example, look like red-eyed Bosmer. How you could tell which random NPCs are Dunmer and which ones are Altmer or Bosmer would, once again, complicate things. — Unsigned comment by Danjohnston1980 (talk • contribs) on 14 November 2010

Slaves

The argonian and khajiit counts seem weirdly low, considering all the slaves in bandit caves. Were these slaves counted in the demographic? — Unsigned comment by 85.191.86.135 (talk) at 19:39 on 23 August 2011 (GMT)

Lore Worthy

This sort of data really doesn't belong in lorespace. I'd rather if the information was split into its gamespace articles (e.g., Morrowind:Demographics) or if it was moved to General. This information has also been made outdated by the release of Skyrim. As it stands, this article is simply speculation based on game data and books. --Legoless 20:30, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Since it's been over a year since the proposal tag was added and it was left unopposed, I've made the move. —Legoless (talk) 00:20, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Skyrim

I miss data from the latest Elder Scrolls game: Skyrim. Of course there's data of Bloodmoon, but it is less representative than all of Skyrim in Skyrim. — Unsigned comment by 84.24.189.145 (talk) at 18:26 on 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, data for Skyrim is clearly on this page. I assume you're getting a cached version of this page? I've purged it, it should now be properly updated. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 18:26, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

What is source for the Skyrim NPC count?

It says on this page there are over a thousand named NPCs in Skyrim, yet the Skyrim demographics page lists 483 in all 9 hold capitals. The only other settlements are 6 small villages, orc strongholds and a few farms/mines/mills/Khajiit caravans. Even a while back I counted these on the "people" page, and while I think a few places were missing, I only counted to about 600. Where are all these other NPCs? The vast majority seem to be in the cities, yet this article suggests less than half are. Where did the info come from? Thanks. — Unsigned comment by 203.59.124.80 (talk) at 16:14 on 3 February 2012 (GMT)

It says here that there is a total of 1,102 NPCs in Skyrim. I'm guessing when you subtract the non-playable races, the number comes down to roughly a thousand. I hope this helped. -- kertaw48 17:43, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Solstheim

Should not Solstheim be used for any sort of reference, either as part of Skyrim/Morrowind or a province in and of itself? I understand there is a Bloodmoon section, but perhaps that should be updated or a new section be created due to the release of Dragonborn? To make everything more accurate, it is advisable to use all sources available. — Unsigned comment by Hoodedmage (talk • contribs) at 18:17 on 28 May 2013 (GMT)