Lore talk:House Dres

Description

would benefit from vivec's ingame description of the house 24.97.239.147 12:10, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

House Dres represents the past of pre-Tribunal Great House culture, a persistent tradition of Daedra- and ancestor-worshipping civilized Dunmer clans. -Vivec

It might be an idea to add Vivec's dialogue to all articles about a Great House.

What might also be added is the rumor that part of House Dres is led by vampires, as "A Game At Dinner" seems to indicate. Apophis2412 12:21, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Remodelled Economy

I'm rewriting this article and I came across a reference issue. Does anyone know the source for the line "House Dres has finally accepted Imperial Rule, and remodelled its economy from an Agricultural one to a Mercantile based one"? I searched CSList-Oblivion INFO records for Dres and only found "They say that slavery has been abolished in Morrowind. House Dres and Hlaalu have renounced the slave trade, and freed the beastfolk from servitude." and "They say that King Helseth has made an alliance with House Dres. Together they pick apart the carcass of ruined Indoril." I also searched on Google, and the only reference to that which I found is a thread on some forum also disputing this information. --Enodoc (talk) 23:40, 4 March 2013 (GMT)

King Helseth and House Hlaalu

This article seems to suggest that King Hlaalu Helseth is a member of House Hlaalu. Confusing as it may sound, that is not the case. Hlaalu is simply his first name. He has no affiliation with house Hlaalu. As players in Tribunal may experience, house Hlaalu is actually quite upset with him, as he might have poisoned his predecessor, King Athyn Llethan, who actually was of house Hlaalu — Unsigned comment by 78.21.3.240 (talk) at 21:16 on 14 February 2014

He is blood related to Llethan, and members can be ostracized. The sources for the sentence on the page are rumors from Oblivion. They don't explicitly link the two but one details Helseth making an alliance with House Dres and another details that House Dres and Hlaalu renounced slavery. There would be no value in Dres making an alliance with a single person, albeit that that person is the King, so one must conclude that Helseth is leader of Hlaalu, despite any misgivings the other members have or had. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:37, 14 February 2014 (GMT)

Edit warrying

Mentioning slavery is important, because folks at reddit and virtually everyone have this outdated view that slavery does not exist in 4e. Newsflash, it does. While it is a speculation to outright state that House Dres is dealing in slavery - it would be insincere not no mention that those events likely took place. The page already has speculation ,as House Dres taking part in slavery abolition was a gossip subject in Oblivion and Oblivion only. Argonians still do retaliatory raids in late 4e on outposts as far as Raven Rock and House Dres(and presumably all others) amke use of slaves that tradinionally were provided by this House. Why else leave them be? Yet, it is a speculation nonetheless but my last edit was tastefull enough to avoid it, merely hinting at that. I wil lrevert it, for it is just. I'd also suggest resurrect a Slavery page, as many inane subjects, like Khajjit Hygiene, already exist. 62.122.118.177 14:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Slavery page as far as I am aware is being worked on in a sandbox form, and given it is about all the slavery not the Dunmeri Slavery it is rather big undertaking given history of Tamriel. As for the information. Use what info is provided on pages necessary. From what I see the House Dres role is an assumption and theory rather than fact. That does not mean that the information extracted from the sources you used is not valid. Provided it is not a hypothesis in any shape or form it likelly ll have place in the site where it is not a speculation. For instance as a sidenote on Dunmer page perhaps given it does not mention which houes do participate. House Dres is after all not only Dunmer House who partook in slavery, just the one most commonly associated with it (even though in general Dres are about agriculture and all houses at different times of histroy practiced slavery). In short information should be provided where it is relevant. If there is no proof or fact that it was specifically the Dres then it does not belong on Dres page.Tyrvarion (talk) 15:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I disagree

I chose my words diligently, with much more caution than other articles. Thus, I won't stop for there is nothing strictly erroneuos or speculative, not anymore than the rest of the uesp. I don't gather why it is such a sore sight for you. You cannot compromise, so why should I? I will be proven in due time but right now my work will do. 62.122.118.177 16:30, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

If you refuse to compromise then we will be unable to find consensus and the page will remain as-is. We can certainly mention slavery on the page without inserting wild speculation about the role of House Dres. If you have a source for your other additions, present it. —⁠Legoless (talk) 17:17, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Everything in lore must be verifiable by sources. We cannot claim that House Dres continued to practice slavery into the Fourth Era without anything to support it. The rumors for Oblivion are also not the only evidence of slavery being outlawed in Morrowind. Off the top of my head PGE3 states it was outlawed. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 19:20, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Loranna's RP Additions.

A recent edit added large swaths of dubiously canon information from Loranna's RP. As this comes from an unofficial roleplay interaction not connected to Bethesda and whose only inkling of credibility is the participation of a dev, I am uncertain that the additional information belongs in the main body of the lore article. I will move pertinent bits of information to the "Notes" section until it is decided if it belongs in the main canon lore article. —⁠Feran Derethi (talk) 03:56, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn't understate the value of the RP as Ted Peterson, original writer from Arena to Oblivion, made many informative posts and it heavily influenced the 3rd Pocket Guide. I'm not going to argue over its veracity, but the bits added were useful summaries of the great ideas Ted came up with.

Personally, the only key thing needed in main body is the mention of Helseth of marrying the Lady of House Dres, as it explains an otherwise non-sensical alliance (why would Imperial-loving Hlaalu ally with Imperial-hating slave-loving Dres to outlaw slavery?) through a much more understandable motive of alliances through royalty, and was the reason for any mentions of Dres in Oblivion/the Pocket Guide. As for the other stuff it can be kept as is until the article is restructured to fit them in a more relevant section. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 05:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I can live with that, and concede that it does add a little more background to the very unusual and evidently short-lived alliance at the end of the Third Era. I'm merely skeptical of asserting dubious fringe material from outside Bethesda as fully canon in large quantities, especially on a lore article. Feran Derethi (talk) 06:20, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

That's valid yo, I think the latest revision should be good. Hopefully we can add sections on Dres Culture and structure and whatnot soon. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 09:20, 2 January 2023 (UTC)