Skyrim talk:Selveni Nethri
After she escapes, does she disappear from the game or can you find her searching for her daughter? Pizza_Boy 23:49, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
- I too am wondering what happens to her after this quest. — Unsigned comment by 126.96.36.199 (talk) at 07:57 on 13 April 2012
"Please cut me down"
- Same way as you cut through any spiderweb, swing your weapon at her/the web until she falls down (Eddie The Head 13:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC))
Can someone with more expertise in the CK/CSList confirm her level? I was able to convince myself by poking around in the CSList that she's leveled and her range is 1-46, but I'm not sure that formula is right. Thanks! eshetalk 20:16, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
- Well, since you asked.... Her leveling is handled differently than "easy" leveled NPCs. The easiest leveled NPCs are defined by a single record (no templates involved), and that record specifies that their level is directly calculated from the player's level. In the CK, the flags are 'PC Level Mult' and 'Auto calc stats'; in CSList, the flags are 'offset' and 'autocalc'. That's the type of situation which is accurately described a level description such as "PC×1 (range=1-46)" -- the NPC can have any of 46 different levels.
- But that's not how Selveni works. Selveni's stats come from a template, which recursively descends into a whole mess of nested templates -- with seven distinct levels at which the templates are defined. So her stats come out to:
PC level Selveni's level Health Magicka >=1 1 50 100 >=6 6 142 158 >=12 12 192 198 >=19 19 275 270 >=27 27 367 323 >= 36 36 467 383 >= 46 46 575 500
- I'm not sure that "PC×1 (range=1-46)" is really a good description in this case. First, she can't have any of those 46 levels, but only 7. And perhaps more importantly, if your character is level 46 you only have a 1/7 chance of getting the level 46 version of Selveni -- you're just as likely to get the level 1 version. (Just for completeness, boss-type NPCs/creatures that use the same complicated template-based system will always give you the highest-level possible version, but Selveni doesn't use one of those boss-type leveled lists).
- The questions are then what is the best way to summarize her level (and health/magicka)? I'd really prefer to not put a full table onto the page: there are a lot of similar NPCs/creatures, and I can't bot-add extra tables to all those hundreds of pages; I think it's overkill, since I think most readers just want a brief summary of the stats (and expect similar level of detail all NPC/creature pages); long-term, I want to make more detailed stats available through a separate database-driven tool (which I know I've been promising for years, but really, I want to make it happen. Plus the single biggest obstacle has already been taken care of, namely putting a database in place, since the database being used for CSList will also be used to provide data for other tools).
- My ideas so far for how to summarize the level are:
- Come up with a one-word description to describe this type of leveling. Several dragons currently use "Scaled" in this situation; "Radiant" also comes to mind, since it's an outcome of the same complex templating system that causes "Radiant" to be used for race/gender/class/etc.
- List all the possible levels, e.g., "1, 6, 12, 19, 27, 26, 46".
- Combination of the first two ideas, e.g. "Radiant (1-46)"
- As for health/magicka, listing all the values seems a bit crazier. But "(50-200)+(PC-1)×8" isn't appropriate either, given that the level is not directly driven by the PC level. Simply changing it to "(50-200)+(lvl-1)×8" could work. Or else just provide the range, e.g., 50-575.
- I can easily get NepheleBot to make any changes, it's just a question of deciding what to tell the bot to do.... --NepheleTalk 06:37, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
- The word "Tiered" comes to mind as another possibility for describing the leveling technique. Honestly, despite having just done so for Lieutenant Salvarus, I'm not a big fan of the impreciseness of just saying Level = 1-23. To that end, I'm wondering if perhaps hover text might be a good way to list all the possible levels without over-crowding the box. The box itself could either just list the minimum and maximum of the range or just use "Radiant/Scaled/Tiered", then the hover text would contain the full list. For the health and magicka, I'd suggest we either take the same route, putting the range in the box with hover text giving the specific formula (using "lvl", not "PC") or just put the range into the box and leave it at that. If a database is set up at a later date with full details, we could even drop the hover text and then link the displayed text to the database instead for full details. – Robin Hood↝talk 16:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
- And here I was assuming that you must sleep sometimes, so perhaps it might take a few hours at least before you'd respond ;)
- Tiered might be more accurate, but I'm tending to favour Radiant as a description -- primarily because it means we can conveniently provide additional explanation at Radiant. Hover text is a good idea. And listing individual health/magicka values in the hover text is also probably worthwhile, because frequently the base values are level dependent, meaning that the equation ends up being something imprecise like "(50-200)+(lvl-1)×8". Listing individual values may be the only convenient way to give more accurate numbers. --NepheleTalk 17:12, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
- No, I never sleep. (Which isn't all that far from the truth, actually, though right now it's a little odder than normal...I'll be going to bed for the "night" around 3 or 4pm today, I think, but I ramble.) "Radiant" works for me, and I can definitely see what you mean about the formulae. I know it took me years to wrap my head around the OB formulae. Mostly, I just kinda went "big complex formula that I remember reading the details of once and I know it's not entirely accurate at all levels, and...whatever, I'll just go kill the damned thing!" :) Long story short, I think having just a straight number available for the radiant-leveled actors is a good thing! – Robin Hood↝talk 17:46, 14 May 2012 (UTC)