Skyrim talk:Muffle (effect)

Archives
Archive 1: Nov 2011 - Feb 2012

(Persuade) I just need more simple info...

I appreciate all the data you guys put here , but it seems confusing.
I think we may actually need a "Simple ways to get undetected" rather than those complex Muffle data?
--170.40.250.14 09:15, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

If I have muffle movement and silence perk, are the muffle-enchanted boots useless?

Is the combination of these two perks equivalent to the enchanting effet? On movement and on the sound made by weapons?

Thanks. — Unsigned comment by 138.195.155.74 (talk) on 13 April 2012

The "on sound made by weapons" part is almost certainly wrong (unless the editor meant "to the player's ears") but nobody's actually made the effort to disprove or confirm it yet. I keep thinking about moving it from the article since it's also quite weaselly, and in fact I don't remember any supporting evidence for weapon use influencing detection at all, but until it's actively contested it's not really doing any harm there either. The "on movement" part has well-established consensus as correct (see the archive), so the answer to your question is "yes". Aliana 17:33, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Heavy armour clarification

Just to clarify, if I either get the silence perk in the sneak skill tree, or enchant my boots with the muffle effect, can I sneak in heavy armour as effectively as I can in light armour? — Unsigned comment by 84.93.140.40 (talk) at 01:29 on 13 June 2012

Muffle on shoes only counts as 50%, same as muffled movement. So no, you need the Silence perk. The Silencer speaks^Talk 00:38, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Generic Muffle enchanted boots found in the wild gives you 50% noise reduction, but ones you enchant yourself gives you 100% noise reduction. The Silencer's statement is incorrect. And the answer to Uns2's question is a yes. Abacus707 03:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

muffle and steed stone/conditioning/unhindered

so... i'm a little confued. muffle formula applies to the "worn armor weight". so, if i have conditioning/unhidered or the steed stone, muffle is useless, for my armor weigh nothing? and that means that with the steed stone I should be able to sneak with a daedric armor as well as with a hide armor? — Unsigned comment by 95.236.246.175 (talk) at 18:41 on 6 July 2012

armor weight reduction via perks or steed stone does not affect noise level. Your reduced weight armor still makes same noise without muffle effect. So muffle is still very useful for sneaking. Abacus707 03:07, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I was curious about this after reading conflicting information and decided to test it myself. I used a level 34 character (sneak skill = 27). No sneak perks. I attempted to sneak up on the two bandits in the first room of Bleak Falls Barrow and noted how close I was able to get before they became alerted. First try was with all clothing (0 armor rating); 2nd try was naked. As you might expect, these had the same result. Then I tried full daedric gear (helmet, armor, boot, gauntlets). The bandits became alerted when I was ~10-15 feet further away. I tried this 3 times with the daedric gear with consistent results. Then I gave myself the Conditioning perk, and while still wearing the daedric armor was able to make it to the same spot that I had managed to sneak while completely unarmored before the bandits became alerted. Next try was daedric + muffle spell (without the Conditioning perk). Once again, I made it to the same "0 armor" spot before alerting the bandits. Last attempt was daedric + muffle + Conditioning perk. I still made it to the same spot and no further. So yes, I would definitely say that the Conditioning (and presumably Unhindered) perk does negate your armor weight with regards to sneaking and that it also makes any sort of muffle effect useless. kryptopyr 28 November 2012

Conditioning and Unhindered don't reduce armor weight to zero for the purposes of calculating movement noise. I ran tests isolating detection by movement noise at Robber's Gorge at night while using the Shadowcloak of the Nocturnal power. While detection of movement noise was notably reduced with either perk, detection while in run mode occurred where no such detection ever occurs with boots with a generic Muffle Enchantment upon them (I can run in sneak mode less than a meter away without detection because movement noise is zero). If the movement noise formula posted at the Creation Kit Wiki on the Detection article page is credible then armor weight can't be zero with either perk because armor weight is a factor in the formula and a factor of zero in the formula should result in zero movement noise, i.e. the same effect as the Muffle enchanted boots. Either the formula is wrong, or the perks reduce armor weight but not to zero. Perhaps armor weight in the equation has a floor similar to damage resistances having a cap. --DagmarH (talk) 07:14, 14 January 2013 (GMT)

Possible method to get Muffle boots

According to the Enchanting Effects page, Muffle and Waterbreathing items are so rare because they're considered low-tier enchantments. As your level gets higher, they have less and less chance of showing up because more higher-tier enchantments become available. This means that if you're going to get a set of Muffle boots, you need to do so sooner rather than later. Now, the Generic Magical Apparel page states that the lowest boots with Muffle that can be disenchanted are Steel Boots of Muffle. These are a level 11 item. The page also states that the level of an item is the hard minimum level that the item will be able to show up in stores (though it can show up sooner in chests). By this logic, the best way to force the game to give you Muffle is to wait till Level 11, then drop whatever you're doing and head to Whiterun (technically any vendor that sells armor will work, but Whiterun has 3 Blacksmiths). Once there, check the inventory of the blacksmiths in town. If none of them have it (likely), wait two days for their stock to reset, then check again. Repeat as needed until one of them stocks some Steel Boots of Muffle, and you're good to go. Is this a valid strategy, or did I miss something somewhere? Swk3000 21:21, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Somewhat easier is to just save outside the vendor's door, then enter and look at their inventory. If they don't have what you need, reload outside the door and re-enter. This works because vendor inventories are loaded upon entering a cell. The rest of this method is sound. I know because I tried it myself. — Unsigned comment by 90.209.11.93 (talk) at 12:00 on 21 November 2012‎

Save game, talk to the vendor, and if they don't have what you want, attack them and immediately reload the save. It forces the inventory to refresh. Quillan (talk) 03:02, 29 November 2012 (GMT)

I can't actually corroborate this behavior of leveled lists. The chance for something to appear should be dependent on the way the lists are set up - how many total items are valid in the list based on level. Value *shouldn't* have anything to do with it. Even if it did, I suspect it would affect a lot more than just these two effects.

What I *can* confirm though (because I'm looking at it right now) is that the lists are set up in such a way that both water-breathing and muffle will be hard to come by. For every body part and armor type combination there are three sublists, which are then rolled up into other sublists and then one way or another make their way into the lists that actually generate what you get in loot. These lists mostly share the same items and effects with their sibling lists, however sometimes things are left out of one or two lists. Fortify destruction on cuirasses is left out of one. Muffle and water-breathing are left out of two. And that's just for the higher-end armors. For some of the lower-quality armors they are absent completely (for light armor, muffle is only present on glass boots in leveled loot). Based on the preview tool it seems that your chance of getting an item with the muffle effect is a little less than 1% in most cases. However that's when you're due to get any enchanted armor at all so in fact it's even lower than that.

It's hard to tell if it's deliberate on the part of the devs or a mistake. I think it's deliberate. Bluedanieru (talk) 15:46, 10 December 2012 (GMT)

Muffle and Clothing

Muffle reduces the sound from moving in armor, but what if you're wearing clothes? Do the Muffle spell, Muffle-enchanted items, or Muffled Movement/Silence perks have any benefit for a sneaky mage wearing robes and such? SonGoharotto (talk) 18:22, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

Good question. I'm also curious about the effect of robes/clothes. . .does their weight contribute towards detection chance, as armor weight does? 76.185.41.201 03:51, 14 January 2013 (GMT)

From my experiences, light armor from clothing bears little sound difference if any. I just assume they produce the same amount of sound. and Heavy armor always produces more sound.

I never had enchanted muffle or Muffled Movement perk, but with Muffle spell I was able to suppress all detection when wearing light armor or clothing. However I had no light armor Boots, only clothes Boots so that's still to see.

Also note that weapons add to detection, so if you're not muffled yet are sneaking around with an Ebony Greatsword that sword may prevent stealth. Other things to consider like wearing heavy armor but naked feet or light armor but covered feet whether they be boots or shoes. Plus there's always that small percentage even with a lot of suppression that you may still get detected.

I once tried it running around directly behind a common Bandit with Muffle spell ACTIVE; I believe the tougher bandits (e.g. Marauders) have increased detection AI.

Whilst sneaking is how I tested the different armors. No perks except Sneak 2/5, and Quiet Casting.

See the interesting thing is how I managed to pickpocket the guy while sneaking and heavy armor helm, gauntlets, and shield but no heavy armor boots equipped or Muffle active..173.59.98.83 14:41, 1 April 2013 (GMT)

Gunmar of Fort Dawnguard Almost Always Has 1 Disenchantable Muffle Item.

So, after putting off Enchanting my extremely cute boots due to not having Muffle in my list of Enchantments and after searching every Blacksmith regularly, I ventured off to Fort Dawnguard to turn in a quest and discovered that Gunmar almost always has 1 Steel Boots of Muffling for sale, 'almost always' meaning, in 46 out of 50 restocks he always had a pair. I did buy the first pair I saw and then waited 2 days, checked his inventory again and repeated it 48 more times. Not sure if its just for me or if it's a bug or I just got super lucky but it happened. If it helps I'm level 78 and its always Steel Boots of Muffling. Tuaire (talk) 11:22, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

I'm level 81. I saved/exited/loaded 3 times and didn't see Gunmar selling any muffling boots. Then I used the attack/load trick and saw Steel Boots of Muffling. 50.0.25.231 08:34, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

I think this is only true for high-level characters. Level 20-50 characters don't seem to show muffling boots in Gunmar's inventory (sad to say). --Morrolan (talk) 13:26, 6 August 2013 (GMT)

This is impossibly useful and should be on the main page. Starts stocking them at Level 61 for me (after attack/load), on two different saves.

muffle item location?

after having done some of the thieves guilds quests, there is a glass boots of muffling sitting in vanryth gatharian's stall in the ragged flagon. can anyone else confirm whether this always shows up or if it was was just randomly generated? — Unsigned comment by 71.222.74.66 (talk) at 03:59 on 12 March 2013

It's randomly generated, so you were just lucky. --Darth l33t (talk) 22:50, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

Note on using Astronach forge

Is it really useful to include the note about getting the muffle enchantment by repeatedly using the astronach forge? There are 37 enchantments in the game, many of which come in different flavors. It seems like way too difficult of a method to list , after all it could apply to any enchantment and isn't that different from repeatedly reloading a merchant. --~The wind, forsaken~ (talk) 22:48, 15 March 2013 (GMT)

Muffle effect in merchant inventories

I'm removing the sentence in this article that says "Suspected level for vendors to start carrying disenchant-able muffle boots is 20-25." The reason? I got 100 in all my skills using the Oghma Infinium glitch (yeah, I play without patches), but I knew that I may never find a muffle enchantment at level 81, so while I was still technically at level 16, I decided to go around the the game and try and purchase a waterbreathing enchantment, and then, get up to level 25, then instantly go out of the level-up screen (there's a split second where you can exit the screen without using ALL your level-ups), and then buy a muffle enchantment. When I went to Solitude (thinking that the Radiant Raiment would be the best place to find a waterbreathing enchantment), the Solitude Blacksmith had a pair of Steel Boots of Muffling, ripe for the purchase! At level 16!

So yeah, I can confirm that muffle enchantments appear in merchant inventories the same time they appear everywhere else.Dstebbins (talk) 05:58, 15 April 2013 (GMT)

Looking at the CK, I see them consistently starting at level 11 for vendors. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 21:12, 6 August 2013 (GMT)

Perk + Apparel = ?

Just curious - the shrouded boots have a .5 muffle enchantment, which should be a 50% reduction, and the muffled movement perk reduces noise from armor by 50%. So would these combine to yield 100% reduction, or would the boots reduce the 50% left over after the perk by 50% (total of 75% reduction)? Username12345 (talk) 23:19, 19 April 2013 (GMT)

Gameplay tips need to be discussed on forums dedicated to the game. The talk pages of these articles should be limited to the articles themselves.

Here is a forum where you can ask these kinds of questions.Dstebbins (talk) 06:47, 30 May 2013 (GMT)

Actually, this is something we ought to know so we can clarify it on the article. Does anyone know the answer to this? ⇠eshe^talk 14:19, 5 June 2013 (GMT)

I have wondered this as well. I have also wondered if they don't stack at all, and just give you a 50% reduction. --Morrolan (talk) 12:49, 30 June 2013 (GMT)

I hope that this actually works, not having logged in and such. Or that I'm not late or providing redundant information. Just chanced upon this and took it to myself to test it and I wanted to post my results.

So, using the command "player.getavinfo MovementNoiseMult", I'm able to view the amount of muffle I currently have. After, removing and re-adding the Muffled Movement and Silence perks, I discovered that they do, in fact, stack. What may be interesting to note, though is that by default, your character has a "1" for this calculated value, and each modifier subtracts from this value based on what you have (muffled movement provides -0.5, or 50%). After doing some very quick tests in a room full of draugr and some invisibilty potions, I've found that if this value is 0, then you are, in fact, completely silent when you move. I was able to dance directly in front of the draugr (whilst invisible) and have no reaction whatsover. So to answer your question, yes. If you have two items which Muffle by 50%, you have 100% muffle, and are therefore silent. Note, also, that having Muffle Movement and Silence reduces your noise by 150%, making you silent without any muffled boots or spells. Whether or not this extra 50% would be significant, such as when wearing heavy armour I have yet to know. May test that later.

-- From Spike, the currently non-registered helper person 68.9.242.61 09:47, 9 December 2013 (GMT)

Muffle and Footsteps

I have updated the main page to include information gained from my own testing. The previous main page described muffle as only affecting the sound generated by armor, but I have demonstrated in my testing that this is not the case; muffle also affects the sound of your footsteps, which have their own sound generation occuring while moving. This is easily demonstrated in the game through the use of invisibility. On a character with no stealth, wearing no clothing or armor, if you are invisible and unmuffled and try to walk or sneak near enemies they can and will detect you by sound. However, try the same test again with a 1.0 or higher muffle effect active in addition to the invisibility they will be unable to detect your presence at all. You don't even need to sneak; you can just run and sprint and jump around in front of them and they have no idea that you are there.

--From Lobotomy, an unregistered poster at the time of this posting. — Unsigned comment by 98.232.179.32 (talk) at 07:44 on 4 January 2014

Muffle and Weapons

As a supplemental test, I tried seeing if muffle had any effect on the sounds generated by weapon swings, and found out in my testing that it has no effect on reducing the noise of weapon swings. While invisible and fully muffled, all nearby enemies will still notice your location the moment you swing a sound-generating weapon. Since this test confirmed that muffle has no effect on weapon sounds, I have removed the entry from the main page that someone left in the Notes section incorrectly stating that muffle had an effect on weapon sounds.

--From Lobotomy, an unregistered poster at the time of this posting. — Unsigned comment by 98.232.179.32 (talk) at 08:02 on 5 January 2014

Muffle > 1.0

The article suggests that a muffle greater than 1.0 has no extra affect one way or another. However the USKP claims otherwise. There it is implied that a muffle magnitude > 1.0 will make you MORE noisy. See the entry for bug #9006 (which fixes Nightingale Boots muffle from 35 to 0.75):

"...erroneously set to a magnitude of 35, which instead of making you quieter it made you extremely noisy."

So is this correct? I ask because I wonder what will happen if I wear the aforementioned boots as well as having the two sneak perks (overall yielding a muffle magnitude of 1.75?). Apologies if this has been clarified already. I did look at some of the testing mentioned in the archived discussion but am still unsure. 86.155.106.73 22:55, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

Understanding Muffle

Clearly there is a lot of confusion regarding Muffle. I will try to clear some things up.

There is an actor value MovementNoiseMult that defaults to 1.

If this value is 0 or less, you do not make any noise when moving. That does not mean you are undetectable by sound. If the enemy's sneak skill is high enough and your's low enough, you can actually be heard standing around.

A MovementNoiseMult of less than 0 will not make you harder to heard when standing around. But it neither will not make you more noisy. As far as my testing goes, lowering MovementNoiseMult below 0 seems irrelevant.

The Muffle spell effect simply subtracts its magnitude from MovementNoiseMult.

This is in fact really stupid. Every description ingame regarding Muffle is misleading and the effect itself is highly unbalanced.

The Muffled Movement perk states that it reduces noise from armor by 50%. In fact it reduces MovementNoiseMult by 0.5; a correct descripiton would be, it reduces noise from movement by 50%. Of course, noise by movement depends on armor. But this perk also helps when no armor is worn.

The Silence perk says "Walking and running does not affect detection". It substracts 1.0 from MovementNoiseMult. The description is correct, but is somewhat of a euphemism: Your movements make no sound, no matter what armor is worn.

But the biggest joke is the Muffle spell. It also subtracts 1.0 from MovementNoiseMult. So both perk's descriptions should read: This perk is useless if you already use the Muffle spell. — Unsigned comment by 31.16.66.252 (talk) at 19:03 on 7 August 2014

That's a fairly good analysis. You may also want to go over the messages in the archive page, if you haven't already, as there's a fair bit of analysis there as well. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 19:25, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

Actually the archive page motivated me to do my own research. There is a lot of back and forth without really looking at the underlying mechanics. The Muffle (effect) page is quite precise, but the wording sometimes suggests that noise from armor and noise from movement are different things. --31.16.66.252 22:22, 7 August 2014 (GMT) TFM

Feel free to change anything you spot that could be more precisely worded. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 01:51, 8 August 2014 (GMT)