Online talk:Eidetic Memory

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Page Load?[edit]

As suspected, I think I have hit a wall with this page. I have only managed to add up to "Plots and Schemes" - 8 hefty collections remain to be added. If I try to add the rest it wont allow me to save and I get an error. Perhaps some/all of these particular collections might need to be split into their own pages? Any ideas? Is the issue likely too much page load? --Jimeee (talk) 18:56, 10 March 2014 (GMT)

Well, do we really need all those different book pages to use the big table format? Not only does it take long to load such a page, but the content isn't that useful either. It's just too much to scroll through, to see the relevant information. A more lightweight method of documenting the collections could be those used at Lore:Books by Subject. --Alfwyn (talk) 19:37, 10 March 2014 (GMT)
You are right that the scrolling is certainly an issue and the more I look at it, the more a giant table page like this one seems cumbersome - even on a PC. I dread what mobile users would think. Originally I proposed something similar to Books by Subject, but that before I know there were two seperate libraries. With that knowlegde, it still seems benefitial to have seperate pages for Shalidor and the Memory. Silencer had the idea to split the collections if they were large enough to warrent their own page and I think that is best for this page. Some collections in the Eiditic Memory have about 100 books. Shalidor's Library as a whole is not too large and I think works well. Most collections in that are only 10 books. I'll get to work splitting this page up and we can see how that goes. --Jimeee (talk) 21:34, 10 March 2014 (GMT)

Eidetic[edit]

Isn't it eidetic, as in photographic? Or did they make up eiditic as a pun on eidetic? --Enodoc (talk) 23:27, 10 March 2014 (GMT)

Oh dear, you're right. Well that's an embarassing mistake I made. I'll fix my mess, sorry!--Jimeee (talk) 23:46, 10 March 2014 (GMT)

Eidetic Memory Hunting Guide[edit]

Is it possible to add a page for each category of eidetic memory, other than motifs, such that clicking the link will bring you to a table of Book Title, Book Location, and if book is used in a quest then a location for after the quest/area is complete? The current linking is great for reading the lorebook, but selecting each entry separately to find the location can be tedious. As many of the entries do not list locations (or only list the location that the book is found at during a quest) the current tables aren't that useful for users seeking to fill in the eidetic memory.Mix-Aka (talk) 22:07, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Basically, an additional column in the table that would show the locations? It should be possible to do somehow and I think it'd be a good addition. Tib (talk) 22:31, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Yes☑ Done. The locations still need to be added to the individual pages that don't have them, but they will now at least show up on the list pages. Currently, the Book Normal template has no provision for showing whether a book is related to a quest or not, so I would suggest we add post-quest locations directly to the location parameter and label them "Post-Quest:". --Enodoc (talk) 10:47, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
What! Enodoc, somebody better give you a cookie or two asap :) I agree regarding the Post-Quest, it sounds like a good solution. Awesome! Tib (talk) 11:20, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
I was just talking with Rhynchelma‎ on my talk page, and there are some Eidetics with lots of possible locations, such that it would be unfeasible to list them all. Any suggestions for what to do in those cases? I don't know which ones that applies to, however. --Enodoc (talk) 21:53, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
I'd like to see that little database, even if it is messy. Some books, e.g. Abah's Landing merchant lord books have varying locations, but they are all in Abah's Landing so it's possible to use general location without specifying. I think we should at least be able to give a general location or two for each book. If it's not possible, and they are totally scattered over the whole Tamriel then er, I still think we should pick something. We can write "Random locations, among these (bullet point X), (bulle point, Y)" or something similar.
Maybe the complete list of locations could be shown in some separate table for those interested, and so that Rhynchelma's work could be made available for the readers.. if they are interested. It doesn't have to be perfect nor complete. Accesibility > perfection, yes? Tib (talk) 15:56, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi, the database is a work in progress, when it's a bit further on then I will let you guys know. Basically, a large number of the eidetic memory books are what I call "random bookcase books". There is no point in trying to list these on the wiki, their location is too inconsistent. Agree that some have a few fairly consistent locations which should be documented. --Rhynchelma (talk) 09:32, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
That could work, actually, if we just have the location of bookcase books set as "Random Bookcases" (so it at least says something). Then if any of those books have separate locations where they are static and loose, we could list those if there aren't many instances. --Enodoc (talk) 10:49, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Sounds like what I am trying to do. I like the Location = Random bookcase. --Rhynchelma (talk) 12:22, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

() I believe we need to clarify, seeing that you reverted a book location which was given as "static". I visited the place, and the book is there... so.

Firstly, what is a "random location" for you? Just because a book has 70 locations, doesn't mean that every one of them is random.
Have you tested it somehow, or how do you know it's true? For me a random spawn point is if it varies for individual players/chars visiting the bookcase. If a book has 70 locations, but 1 of these locations is always same for everyone who goes there, then it becomes a fixed point among random locations, no? And this should *always* be noted. The reason for that being that "Random bookcase" equals to an empty field - it does not give you any valuable information at all. A static should always have a prio over random, we should never remove a static location just because there are 69 other locations... Tib (talk) 12:52, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Random means sometimes it is there, other times another book is there, another time yet another etc etc. I have obsessively run multiple characters through some areas, not all. I certainly have not tested every location for consistency, However, more often than not, locations said to be static are not. It may well be that some are. If so, sorry. --Rhynchelma (talk) 12:56, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Hmm, yeah I understand, and sorry if I sound harsh, that was not meant like this hehe. By the way, that Boethiah's Glory is not in the bookcase, it is inside one of the tent's next to the sick chieftain :p I wonder if maybe that makes it static...? Could it be that the bookcases are often random, but when a book lies on the ground or table, then it's a static place...? How about bullet pointing it
  • Location X (static)
  • Location Y (static)
  • Area Z (random within an area)
  • Random locations (no examples nor list needed, just this) Tib (talk) 13:15, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Sure, that would work. I think we're feeling our way here. I agree, it tends to be the bookshelves that are "random". I am not at all sure that I would be justified in assuming that the so called static locations are in fact static, based on my experience. Unsure what do do regarding this. --Rhynchelma (talk) 13:19, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
The only way to find out whether a static location consistently contains the same book would be to keep checking it with different players and different characters. It's a case of proof and counter-example; without knowing the game coding for that static location, we have no way of knowing whether it is a fixed book, we can just keep checking it until it isn't (that is, it's much easier to counter a theory than to prove it, as one single counter-example throws the entire theory out the window). Prime candidates for this would be to look at the locations of books that have many locations. Say, for example, Fire and Darkness has 20 locations all across the map that aren't bookcases. We'd need to repeatedly go to those places and see what's there. If Fire and Darkness is there every time, there's a good chance (but never a certainty) that it's fixed. Depending on how you've organised your database, and how long you've been collating it for, you may have this info already; you'd just need to find any one example of two different books having the same (non-bookcase) location, as that would counter the theory that "every static location has a fixed book", which I think is the one we need to start on. --Enodoc (talk) 14:18, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, the theory about books "being static" will be based on very limited observations though... but well, hopefully that's okay with you. Anyways - Rhynchelma, if you are interested, I could offer to help you verify some book locations. You can just contact me if you're interested and I can try to help out when I have time. Maybe small scale, ie, a few books or a small area? Or why not Hew's Bane Bookshelf? It's a small area and has probably only a few random book locations ;) Btw, UESP Log addon shows some book locations, I wonder if that could be helpful somehow. Example - http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewlog.php?record=location&filter=bookId&filterid=2398 Tib (talk) 15:57, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

() Ok, a bit late to the party. I discovered the post-quest thing so far (quest items may give lore library entries too if you klick them, btw.). Another complication is random bookshelves; that very suspiciously seems to depend on zone one is. But looks like User:Bonzodog(contribs) figured that out already and put the data from the UESP log add-on to good use (Note to self: try to use that for other stuff like style books to get accurate locations instead of an unattributed copy from the release notes that is inaccurate to begin with). Back to quest related books, I've seen pre/post quest annotations to locations only sparingly so far. What would be good way to do that consistently? My take on that can be seen at Online:Ilessan Tower (note)‎. Should there be a way to see the quest on overview pages (link that word or spell it out, but the latter would be redundant on the book page itself) or do we trust that the user will click on the book title to get further information? --Alfwyn (talk) 06:07, 13 February 2020 (GMT)

One of the reasons that it isn't listed consistently is that they weren't added to the game consistently. Every patch seems to have a note or two about new post-quest locations for books, so it relies on people going back to older zones and checking for the notes. Because they likely already got the book as a quest item, the note doesn't glow and that makes it harder to spot randomly unless you are actively looking for it.
I'd suggest we look through the patch notes and compare the books they list for adding post quest locations and check that against our pages to see if we have them listed. Jeancey (talk) 17:26, 13 February 2020 (GMT)