Oblivion Mod talk:Midas Magic

Deletion

Does this deserve its own page? Herkron 20:35, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

I've prod'ed it. While Midas Magic is large enough that a sufficiently deep, non-readme page could be done on it, that has not been done. Barring a significant expansion/maintenance effort, it should be deleted. --Wrye 20:52, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Responding to Nephele's reinstatement of the prod...

66.188.77.196 has begun editing the page, but I don't know if they are planning on addressing concerns of depth. If changes so far are just the beginning and an in-depth expansion is planned, then I think that's inline with our policy (see Oblivion Mod:Mods#What Goes Here).

IMO, current edits look good and have already surpassed the entry on Oblivion Mod Wiki. If the article continues to develop in the current direction, I'd say it looks good. Seems like a good faith effort (though it would have been better to drop a note regarding intentions here). --Wrye 00:02, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm fleshing this page out myself. Just starting on it. The indent is to have links, short descriptions of the quests and most importantly the spell lists with ingredients.--Xilver 00:09, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm just not sure why this effort is being put into expanding an article on UESP, instead of expanding the article on Oblivion Mod Wiki. We don't have articles providing quest descriptions or other details for any other third-party mods. Why not add the information to a site that is dedicated to documenting mods, rather than a site where the article will inevitably seem out of place? --Nephele^Talk 00:16, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Allow me to add my input as a user, not as an editor. You guys are of course free to decide what belongs in your wiki, but I've been coming to this wiki for all my Oblivion needs, and have looked for more in-depth info on this particular mod in many places, always to be disappointed. If there's anywhere I'd want to see it covered more, it's in this wiki -- the first place I go for Oblivion info. While it's true that there's not nearly enough info in the article as it stands, I think having something there that people can build upon is better than banning the article entirely. This mod is poorly documented already, with useful info scattered across forum posts and in-game books, and it really needs something like a wiki where this info can be collected. --67.181.102.146 00:32, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Nephele, that's a general policy question. Probably the best place for it would be on the talk section of the Oblivion Mod:Mods page. Since I'm the one pushing/helping this change, I'll post more there in a little bit. --Wrye 01:27, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

I've started the discussion. See Oblivion Mod talk:Mods#What Goes Here. --Wrye 01:55, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

And... Since I was the one who originally added the prod, and since Xilver is exactly answering my concerns with it, and since the page is developing in a way that is consistent with guidelines that have been posted for almost a month, and since the deletion notice itself provides grounds for removal of the notice which have been met. I'm going to remove it again. --Wrye 02:02, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Thank you Wrye & all. It will take me some time to pull the requested data together but I will commit to working on it.--Xilver 07:36, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Desired Info

Speaking of which, here is what I'd like to see in an article on this mod. For instance, at the moment it reads more like a brochure than a useful source of info. I understand the author is protective of spoilers, but I think it would be helpful to let players know just what they're getting themselves into:

• List of all new books added to the game. Mention which of them begin new quests, and which of them contain new spells, or both.
• A list of all new spells, their necessary ingredients, and which books the spells can be found in.
• A list of all new NPCs/creatures (angel, beholden, cheese/melon atronarch, etc.)
• A list of all new locations and quests.
• Proper use of the Broke Back Mining Company. Where to find the brochure than places the map marker, how to invest in them, and where/when to pick up the proceeds.
• Info on the Astral Realm and the second stargate
  • Gate addresses:

TREES TAR SLEET ASTRAL TATER TEARS STEEL SEARS TESLA STALE ALTAR SEAS STRATA AERATE All that I have found76.251.86.23 23:53, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

• Detailed use of the Aurum Assimilator -- such as, exactly which items can be used with it. For instance, diamond and topaz are usable, but opal and amethyst are destroyed if put in the assimilator. Also, while "flawed diamond" "diamond" and "flawless diamond" are usable, "diamond spicule" is destroyed (as are all similar "flakes", "chips", etc of the usable gems). I'd like to know which of the gem collection I've been accumulating should get sold off, and which I need to keep for spellcrafting.

I'm sure there's more I'm not thinking of at the moment. Answers to questions I've seen several times in the forum posts would be good, too. Of course, the big "we want to delete this page" notice on the article is not exactly encouraging to people to improve it. --67.181.102.146 01:39, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

I found LATE, and STAR.

Formatting

Question on formatting. This Mod has several books, hundreds of spells and dozens of new creatures. Should I create subpages for each of these of make this monolithic? I envision making a creature page similar to the oblivion or SI page but I'd like to hear thoughts. Same with the books, I'd like to format the books on their own book pages. If I do, What wiki structure should i use?--Xilver 20:21, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Splitting: If the page is more than say six page downs (on my laptop screen) then it should be split. I.e. if scrolling starts becoming a hassle, then it should be split. May be simplest to start monolithic and then split as need arises. (It's easier to split than it is to undo a split.)

On how much content to provide... Prepare to be whipsawwed a little bit... If docs are too minimal, then they don't meet our "depth" standard. OTOH, there is such a thing as over-documenting something. Opinions vary as to when that would happen -- IMO, UESP has overdoced a lot of stuff. Documention should be useful, not exhaustive. I've thought this for a while, and I see Nephele voicing a similar opinion on the Oblivion Mod talk:Mods page. So keep that in mind.

E.g. regarding books, personally I wouldn't doc much (if any) more than you already have. A quick summary of the books and what they do -- sounds good. Other editors might go further, but just keep in mind: what will be most useful/interesting to someone playing the mod -- after all, in the end, they're going to get most info (e.g. contents of books) from playing the mod, so it's not really (IMO) that useful/desirable to replicate too much information about it here.

Like I said, that's my opinion, but I haven't played Midas, so I can't make an educated comment. (It keeps looking more appealing though!) Just put utility over exhaustive info, and you should be okay.) Of course, exposures to questions on the forum is always a good guide of what to include.

--Wrye 23:26, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

PS, if it does make sense to include the book text. Then you should follow an existing format, e.g. Oblivion:The Black Arrow, v 1. But like I said, beware of over-docing. --Wrye 23:29, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, The books are the best source of information about the spells, how you get them and what they do. Functionally, it could be the most important thing the Wiki has to offer to the Mod users. Often times people misplace the books (ingame) or complaint about flipping through the ingame pages. Thank you for the input and the example. How should I name the pages? ie "TES4Mod:'Name of Midas Book'" or "TES4MOD:Midas_Magic:'Name of Midas Book'" etc.

Subpages should be like Tes4Mod:Midas_Magic/Name_of_Book. Wiki software treats the "/" divisions specially, resulting in a backlink at the top left of the page. Also, it's useful for making clear which pages belong to which mod. For an example, you might poke around on the Cobl hierarchy and see how the subpages are divided for it. (But Cobl is fairly large and needs a bigger hierarchy.) Again, you can always move (rename) pages later if need be.

When you're typing the link to the page, you should type: [[Midas_Magic/Name of Book|Name of Book]]. When you save the page, the "Tes4Mod" namespace will automatically be added to the front of the link. And the "|Name of Book" at the end is used to override the default text for the link (which in this case would be "Midas Magic/Name of Book").

Keep in mind that case matters. TES4MOD != Tes4Mod

--Wrye 19:07, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Expansion

I am going to make a start on this page, never contributed to a wiki before. Anyway i am going to attempt to add the following over the course of about a month.

• A list of all new spells, their necessary ingredients, and which books the spells can be found in.
• A list of all new NPCs/creatures

It may well need formatting, depends on how much my skills develop over the course of adding stuff.

If anyone wants to expand further, adding quest information and a list of places would be nice.

I am open to input and feedback! Venuism 07:50, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

So far i have added the following pages:Creatures,Items with minimal content, still not bad and how i love using excel and if statements to sort information! Venuism 12:34, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Weird Bug?

Every time I cast a Midas spell, a Fundaments of Alchemy book gets placed directly below me. While not harmful in the least, it does worry me that I may have some sort of bug. Is that true? Fruckert 00:30, 8 February 2010 (UTC)