Lore talk:Weather Magic

Summary of Changes

There's a lot going on here, and I know people are going to question some of these changes, so I'm laying everything out.

1. Removal of "Dragons/Nords are practitioners of weather magic."

This is an assumption based on a passage describing Mulaamnir's usage of the thu'um to perform feats of elemental destruction:

• The Dragons employ intense breath weapons of various types.

This is the first sentence in the paragraph being cited. It establishes that Dragons use the thu'um, and that the Imperial scholar is unfamiliar with it.

• For example, I've seen Mulaamnir pour fire from his gullet down upon Khajiiti soldiers and civilians alike.

The Imperial scholar saw Mulaamnir spit fire using the thu'um.

• I've also seen him employ a type of storm magic in much the same way.

The Imperial scholar saw Mulaamnir call down a storm using the thu'um or spew a lightning beam.

• As I understand it, it just depends upon the particular shout the Dragon uses to call forth the power.

The Imperial scholar reiterates that we're reading about the thu'um.

Yes, the thu'um can be used to summon storms. Does that make it weather magic? No, that makes it ancient mouth-sky magic, which is an entirely different subject in the navigation box at the bottom of the article. The same source used to make this claim is used to say "Nords are practitioners of weather magic", when the source says this on the matter:

• I take it certain Nords and even some of the past emperors were able to utilize this form of magic, but never to the extent of the Dragons.

Again, this is in reference to the thu'um, not weather magic. Ancient Nord tongues used the thu'um, like Dragons. Reman used the thu'um to hunt Dragons. Dragons appear to have stronger Voices than mortals, this Imperial scholar surmises, given the versatility and raw power they witnessed from Mulaamnir.

Does this mean I'm removing the thu'um from this page? No, I'm removing the claim that "Nords and Dragons are known practitioners of weather magic." Using this source to say "Dragons and Nords are practitioners of weather magic" is wrong. The source does not say Dragons and Nords use weather magic, the source says Dragons use the thu'um, which some Emperors and Nords have historically used. The source is about the thu'um, not weather magic.

I'm going to alter the introductory paragraph to be more substantial than "people use weather magic", and merging the bit about Dragons and Nords to be about the thu'um.

2. Removal from Reachfolk: "their dances involve a lot of fire."

This is entirely irrelevant to the subject of weather magic, and belongs on Lore:Reachmen.

3. Harrowstorms

Harrowstorms are not conventional weather magic, and are not a broad "Reachman" thing, they're an invention of the Gray Host at the behest of a coven of isolated frozen island witches. I'm moving them to their own section. Additionally, I have transformed the Harrowstorm section into a transclusion.

With this in its own section, there is only one sentence about Reachmen. There is not enough content to warrant an entire section for Reachmen. The bit about the skyweavers would disrupt the flow of any other section it's put into, so I'm setting it in a note.

4. Sotha Sil.

Removed "It contains rotating girders that allow for proper topography to be formed within the realm."

The definition of topography: "the arrangement of the natural and artificial physical features of an area." This has little to do with the weather. The aforementioned girders have to do with the City's geography, not meteorology.

5. Image adjustments

• Removed the Graybeard, as the image doesn't show a Tongue changing the weather, therefore making it irrelevant.
• Moved gallery image up, removed Maormer mage image. The mage isn't performing any feats of weather, just standing there. The sacrifice is more appropriate for the section, as it shows one of these rituals being powered.

6. Moved a passage

• Weather magic has never been an exact science because of the temperamental nature of what it seeks to control. Minor spells to conjure gusts of wind or forks of lightning are common, but manipulation of a region's climate is much more difficult to achieve. Maormer war wizards have longed for the ability to lower catastrophic hailstorms onto enemy borders as a preamble to invasion, or to halt a blizzard to make an unexpected march through inclement weather.

This passage is more appropriate in the introductory paragraph, as it talks about the nuances of conjuring storms. -MolagBallet (talk) 22:31, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I strongly disapprove of the Greybeard image removal, and here is my reasons for adding it in. One it shows an image of a Nordic Tongue, which is the reason why I added it anyways. Second of all there is lore that they are the ones that use said Thu'um, which canonically goes by the name Clear Skies, in fact having the dragon's tongue and that shout is a requirement in order to reach the summit of the Throat of the World, and the Greybeards are the only way you can learn the shout in Skyrim which means they are directly associated with that aspect of weather classification, as Greybeard that want to communicate with Paarthy have to use Clear Skies in order to do it. This is directly stated by the Greybeard guy that speaks to you. This form of Weather manipulation is best represented by the Greybeard image, a dragon image could have worked too but not as impactful it could even be another Greybeard image but that one is awesome and shows the thu'um being spokenTheVampKnight (talk) 01:59, 10 August 2021 (UTC)