Lore talk:Aedra

odd wording

it says "8 of the aedra are worshipped as the 9 divine", shoudlnt it say something else, because that makes no sense unless you include 8 of the aedra and *insert whatever is the 9th divine here*. Dappled Midget 15:39, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Is it better now? Thanks for pointing that out. --Nephele 16:16, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Yes it is. I would've edited it myself, but I wasn't sure who the 9th divine was. Thanks. Dappled Midget 18:10, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Talos is the nineth.--Juz 19:48, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

divine race chart

Talos/Tiber Septim is not an Aedra by any of the accepted or derived definitons. — Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) on 30 June 2008

Good point. It's been fixed. --Nephele^Talk 13:34, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

Camoran's Claims

Should Mankar Camoran's claims that the "Aedra" are actually former followers of Lorkhan who betrayed him and set themselves up as Gods in the Daedric Plane now known as Nirn/Mundus be included? His naming of three specific divines would suggest that the others in fact weren't old enough to have been around for the creation/conversion of Nirn. 68.166.172.55 18:30, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

I would imagine not. There were a few things he got wrong (like which plane of Oblivion belongs to which prince). It's likely that he was either mistaken or just insane, especially since there are no other books or people who share this belief. Baron Praxis 10:49, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

sources

The Monomyth would be a useful source here.74.65.142.202 14:15, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Arkay and Talos

Arkay seems to be missing from the shortlist of Aedra (/8 or 9 divines) at the bottom of the page. This also goes for Talos. I would suggest adding them both, since -despite the relatively late addition of Talos- they're both revered as gods in the Imperial cult, and both are powerful ancestor spirits (a.k.a. "Aedra"). — Unsigned comment by 77.163.207.25 (talk) on 16 February 2011

I'm not sure either of them count as Aedra, as both have mortal origins. I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this. rpeh •T•C•E• 23:58, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe that by definition an Aedra is one of the immortal beings that existed from the beginning of existence. They created the universe and assisted in the creation of the mortal realm, unlike the Daedra. --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 00:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

As DKong says, while both are Tamriellic Gods, they both came to be after the formation of Nirn, and this can't really be called Aedra since they had nothing to do with the realm's creation. Dlarsh^(T,C) 02:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

According to the book Aedra and Daedra, Aedra roughly translates into "ancestor". This may or may not be an actual ancestor, so that's rather inconclusive. However, they are represented amongst the other divines as gods of stasis. This is opposed to the daedra that represent change. While Arkay and Talos may not have contibuted to the creation of Mundus, they too are beings that transcended their peers and outlived them. In the creation of Mundus, peers of the seven acknowledged aedra sacrificed themselves to benefit the creation or slipped into mortality. Where they not aedra as well, since they existed before Mundus? If so, why have they lost their immortality? And where did Arkay and Talos gain their immortality if not from the same, or at least a similar source?. I'm intrigued by your views on this matter. — Unsigned comment by 77.163.207.25 (talk) at 16:05 on February 17, 2011

It may not hurt to make a distinction between "original spirits" and "ascended spirits" in the Aedra category, and thus list Arkay and Talos. It may be true that Arkay and Talos are not true Aedra due to their mortal origins, but they are worshipped as part of the pantheon that include the Aedra, and arguably are regarded by the seven original Aedra as equals, as evidenced by their ascension to immortality. I too was confused at Arkay's ommission as I did not know about his mortal origins before reading this thread. BFG 18:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Our anonymous chum cites Aedra and Daedra so let's look at that book a bit more.

• "Aedra are associated with stasis". Dictionary.com defines stasis as "the state of equilibrium or inactivity caused by opposing equal forces." The apotheosis of Arkay and Talos pretty much contradicts that. They changed to become Gods. That's not stasis.
• "Aedra created the mortal world and are bound to the Earth Bones". I'll grant you that's not necessarily a definition, but certainly Arkay and Talos don't fit into the category of entities that created the world.
• "[The terms] are Elvish and exact". I think this is the root of the problem here. It's true that A&T are worshipped as part of a pantheon that includes the Aedra, but that doesn't mean they are Aedra themselves. "Aedra" is an elvish term, but the Eight/Nine Divines is Cyrodilic. The Imperials have simply picked nine entities to worship, but that doesn't mean those nine are the same in nature. Is HoonDing an Aedra because he is part of a Redguard pantheon that includes Ruptga and Tava - their versions of Akatosh and Kynareth?

It might be worth adjusting our templates to be clearer on this kind of thing, but the fact is that the Lore on this matter is typically fractured and contradictory and there are probably no right and wrong answers. rpeh •T•C•E• 04:24, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

It may be worth noting that the books "The Lunar Lorkhan"1) and "The Old Ways"2) provide some interesting contradictory views. The first advocates a total number of eight aedra that assisted in the constuction of Mundus, whereas the latter suggests all the aedra (and other spirits) have mortal origins (retaining power in the afterlife). For those interested in reading them in game: incidently, both books be found next to eachother in the back room of the daedric shrine Addadshashanammu, which is on the westernmost tip of the bitter coast on the island of Vvardenfell (Morrowind).

Some excerpts:

• 1) = "In short, the Moons were and are the two halves of Lorkhan's 'flesh-divinity'. Like the rest of the Gods, Lorkhan was a plane(t) that participated in the Great Construction... except where the Eight lent portions of their heavenly bodies to create the mortal plane(t), Lorkhan's was cracked asunder and his divine spark fell to Nirn as a shooting star "to impregnate it with the measure of its existence and a reasonable amount of selfishness.""

(NPCs in Morrowind will also mention the existence of eight aedra when asked about it.)

• 2) = "What, after all, is the origin of these spiritual forces that move the invisible strings of Mundus? Any neophyte of Artaeum knows that these spirits are our ancestors -- and that, while living, they too were bewildered by the spirits of their ancestors, and so on back to the original Acharyai. The Daedra and gods to whom the common people turn are no more than the spirits of superior men and women whose power and passion granted them great influence in the afterworld."

I notice that while Arkay is defined as an Aedra within the article, he is classified under the "Other" section, along with Talos, rather than the Aedra section of the shortlist at the bottom of the page. Can this be changed for the sake of consistency even though Arkay's classification may still be a matter of debate (as seen in the above conversation)? TheCabbageMerchant 01:41, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Counterparts in Greek / Roman

For what I know about the lore and history, I'd say the Imperial are Roman, and the Altmer are Greek. The Aedra, or the Gods, are extremely possble to be actually reflecting to counterparts in the Greek and Roman mythologies. I have tried to match them with the Gods of Greek and Roman of the Solar system. (Who represents a star in the solar system)

Aedra	Greek God	Roman God	Planet
Akatosh	Zeus	Iuppiter	Jupiter
Arkay	Pluto	Dis Pater	Pluto
Dibella	Aphrodite	Venus	Venus
Julianos	Poseidon	Neptunus	Neptune
Kynareth	Uranus	Cælus	Uranus
Mara	Gaia	Terra	Earth
Stendarr	Cronus	Saturnus	Saturn
Talos	Ares	Mars	Mars
Zenithar	Hermes	Mercurius	Mercury

If anyone is actually interested in putting them in, please reply. And maybe some refinements. --Joshua.yathin.yu 19:17, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

You have the Greek god of the underworld very wrong, He was Hades not Pluto, Pluto was his Roman aspect, that should be apparent because all the names of the planets in our solar system come from the Romans not the Greeks. And while your idea may have some merit, the Tamrielic gods are equated with the wrong real world god, for instance, Zeus was god of the sky and the heavens, not time, as Akatosh's domain is time his equivalent would be Saturn. Stendarr has no equivalent as far as i am aware, nor do Zenithar, Talos, or Julianos. the only ones i see that would be an equivalent on your chart, are Arkay and Kynareth and them only in part of their domains. Parts of Mara's domain would be equivalent to Gaia or Terra, although neither of them are goddesses of love, Eros or Cupid holds that domain in our world, for these reasons and more i think your suggestion be left out of the article. (Exile Of Existence 02:27, 6 March 2012 (UTC))

This violates the style guide, so we don't have to go into how it's wrong.Temple-Zero 02:35, 10 March 2012 (UTC)