Skyrim talk:Trading Cards

Deletion

Honestly, I don't think we should have this on the wiki at all. This is a Steam thing, not related to Bethesda in anyway. You don't have to do anything in-game at all, you could just sit there and rack up playing time and you would get these cards. It has absolutely nothing to do with TES, purely steam. We don't, for instance, have any information on steam mods for the game, or the steam overlay on PC, both of which affect the game just as much (if not more) than these trading cards. In all, I think that it isn't really something we should cover. Jeancey (talk) 05:59, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

You could say pretty much the same thing about achievements. They have a lot less to do with TES than they are just an artificial add-on to the games to match other games. You do in fact have to play the game (as you do with achievements) to get the cards, even if your role is much more passive. The fact is that these cards are clearly TES-related, after all they are themed after the game. Not documenting them would be a clear gap in coverage for what is a pretty simple thing. For what it is, this an alright page that should be fairly quiet after all the various things are added. Deleting it, especially shortly after it's been mentioned on the front page, is a serious conflict that I don't want to get into. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 06:10, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

The difference is, achievements are created BY Bethesda, whereas these cards have absolutely nothing to do with betheseda. They are created solely for use in steam, and not by the creators of the game at all. To add a little more, there is an entire system behind these cards that we cannot hope to cover. You can buy and sell the cards on the steam marketplace, trade them for cards from other games, win prizes with them. If we intend to cover this, then we would need to cover all of that, which has nothing to do with the game at all (just like these). Jeancey (talk) 06:12, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

So we shouldn't cover things that aren't made by Bethesda? I guess we'll have to say goodbye to all of the video card details from Skyrim:System Requirements. After all, those cards weren't made by Bethesda, even though the cards were made for games like Skyrim. It's easy to cover all of those thing you mentioned. In fact, it already does:

"After the four initial cards drop, you must either gain randomly received booster sets to continue gaining cards, trade for more, or buy them off of the Steam Community Marketplace... Alongside the badge, you will receive 100 experience points to boost your Steam Account Level, a random emoticon related to Skyrim that can be used in chat or in discussions, a random profile background image themed around Skyrim that you can use on your Steam community profile, and a chance at receiving a coupon for a different game or DLC."

There, done. That was much easier than your description put it. We do not have to go into detail, pointing to the relevant Steam pages and simply mentioning them is all that's needed. I don't see the need for any debate over what should be a very simple article. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 06:20, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

I honestly don't think we should cover video cards other than simply the specs released by bethesda as to which ones are the best to use. We don't update the video cards at all when new versions come out. I just don't think we need to cover a purely steam related thing. For all we know, Bethesda wasn't even consulted and found out about it when all of us did. Let's wait for some other opinions, besides you and I, since we clearly aren't going to convince each other. Jeancey (talk) 06:25, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

We've been used as the source of info by Bethesda before (I do recall there being probable cause we were responsible for any errors in the Gregory Keyes books, as he was reading our site for the information for a bit of it), so I would be flattered if it turned out they had no part in this and learned it from us. However, Bethesda is extremely Steam friendly. They were first into the Steam Workshop, if I recall, and it would only make sense if they supported, and even made, that cards. I am not sure where your source that they weren't consulted or made the cards came from, I doubt that they weren't supporting it. Based on existing information, I can say it is safe to say they were. Therefore, this was an intended feature for the PC version, and we should be covering. I'm of the opposite, mind, thinking we should branch out more into stuff not entirely related to Bethesda, but I don't think this is a case of that. I think I have made my case for my creation of it and its staying already, but let me expand and reiterate.

We are currently in the quiet period between games, so getting new articles that we can clearly justify hosting are going to become harder (barring edting in the Online namespace). Adding some new content to one of the more developed namespaces that was definitely not easy to gather (still have found less than half the badges) is really useful. Secondly, there is clear precedence for this exact kind of article, as I have mentioned before. Third, it's a simple enough article that hopefully maintaining it won't be an issue. Just ignoring things like market trends on the cards or whatever else is easily done, just having someplace on the wiki to mention and document the cards (especially if they intend to expand it with more sets, as suggested by card descriptions), is just a good idea. Lastly, I gave it attention on the freaking front page (treating it similarly to the Kinect Support Reveal, ironic since I find Steam Trading Cards and the Kinect to be just as gimmicky as the other). Pulling the article now would just be far too sloppy for my liking. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 06:44, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

I wasn't saying they weren't consulted, I was saying that they might not have been, there is no way of knowing. Also, I wasn't saying they learned about it FROM us, but rather at the same time as us (i.e. when steam announced it). My main issue with it is that in order to get cards, you need to play OTHER games, in order to level up and earn booster backs. I'm fairly certain that the booster backs are not game related, but rather any of the games you have, those cards could be in the booster packs. This is a system designed to make you buy more things on steam, which means non-skyrim things. It is impossible to earn booster packs (okay, 75% sure on this one) if you ONLY play Skyrim and do nothing else on steam. All in all this isn't a SKYRIM feature, it is a STEAM feature, which happens to use skyrim as a very, very, very small part of it. There are 71 total games right now that have cards. That means that skyrim is only 1/71 of this feature, or 1.408%, which will likely get even smaller as more games are released for it. If this was a purely skyrim thing, then I would be totally on your side. But it's not a skyrim thing, and skyrim is only a very very very small part of it. Jeancey (talk) 06:54, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

(←) I am just going to clarify that from what I have read on booster packs, they are for specific games. They can also only be obtained by playing Skyrim enough to get all the cards, and then remaining active on Steam, by just logging in once a week at the least. Your chance of getting them rises with Steam Level, but that is it. I may be mistaken since the program is surrounded by some confusion still, but that is what my research told me. We also already cover Steam specific things, like Fall of the Space Core. This is essentially the same thing, so the scope of this deletion would need to increase to cover that article as well.

Things like Achievements are also not up to the developer (although since the scope of the cards remain rather limited, developers likely can opt out), they are mandatory. We still document them. And honestly, they are just as much a monetary tool for Microsoft. Achievements make peopke remain loyal to the platform as they have a clear number describing the value of their accomplishments in it. It is harder to give it up if they clearly tell you your accomplishments are worth something. This is what Valve is doing here. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 07:42, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

Valve has obviously obtained permission from Bethesda to implement trading cards, so I don't see how this feature isn't official. One could argue that the Steam Workshop is also a Steam feature. Besides, it's not the first time Valve content has found its way onto the wiki. Game-related trading cards have just as much a place here as that god-awful Bethesda-approved mod. A possible compromise may be moving the trading card article into General, similar to things like Wallpapers, since at least one of the cards (the "Skyrim" Summer Getaway one) isn't earned through in-game means, and thus isn't necessary to have in the Skyrim namespace. Alternatively, it could be integrated into Skyrim:Achievements to keep all these out-of-game rewards together. But personally, I think it's fine here and oppose its deletion. —Legoless (talk) 14:26, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

Renaming page

After destroying the Recent Changes with file uploads and category tweaks, I've finished adding all Steam-related content I know of to this page. However, this page is now less about Trading Cards and more about Steam content in general. I think this page ought to be renamed either Skyrim:Steam or Skyrim:Steam Content, with the existing info moved to a separate section or merged. Thoughts? • JA^T 23:30, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

All of the content on the page ties into the trading cards, however. The information on the article is either about the cards themselves, or awards you can get from the cards. As such, I think it's still a good location for this content. If we were to do that, we'd most likely have to add content about the workshop, the overlay, general information about Steam... What we cover fits nicely where it is. So I don't see much of a need for a move. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 17:23, 11 August 2013 (GMT)