Lore talk:Empire

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The Fourth Empire[edit]

Is there a reason why we don't have a Lore page for the Fourth Era? I was going to create it, but wanted to make sure that there isn't any real reason for its absence. Kalis Agea 23:19, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

We do have a page for the Fourth Era. As for the 'Fourth Empire', there isn't such a thing. So far there has only been one emperor (Titus Mede), and we don't even know if Price Attrebus will ever be crowned. They might die out after only one generation. All we know is that there is still an Empire during the events of Skyrim. Whether its the same one or not is unknown. Perhaps there will be more information in the future, but for now we should assume that the Mede family is just another line of potentates. Legoless 23:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
It's a good thing I checked, then. Well, when we do get more information (whether from Lord of Souls or Skyrim) I'll get on making that page (for my own personal satisfaction, and so we'll have the page). Kalis Agea 23:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
Bringing this topic back up again due to the recent additions to the page. I can't find any mention of a "Fourth Era Empire" in any of the new books introduced by Skyrim. Unless it's mentioned in dialogue, the current empire should probably still be considered the Third. --Legoless 17:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
I think you mean "fourth empire", we know this is the fourth era other then that I suppose there is no real evidence that it is a new empire and not just a new dynasty. John142 19:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
My bad. Yes, "Fourth Empire" is what I meant. --Legoless 19:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Still a Stub?[edit]

Should this article still be considered a Stub or not? Kalis Agea 22:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

It needs more references for it to be complete. Also see the discussion here about the actual existence of a 'First Empire'. However, a solution to this problem doesn't present itself openly, so I'd recommend replacing that section with the Alessian Order for now. Once those things are done, it is complete and the stub can be removed. Legoless 22:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Well it looks like I have my project for the day! :D Kalis Agea 22:55, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
EDIT: Are 10 references enough, or should I keep searching for more? Kalis Agea 23:41, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
It looks good enough to me. I'll remove the stub tag. Nice work! Legoless 11:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! Glad I could spruce up the page! Kalis Agea 01:13, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Proposed alterations.[edit]

It is proposed to effect the following syntactical and grammatical changes:

  • Change "The Empire is a contemporary term referring to the Imperial rule over the continent of Tamriel" to ""The Empire" is a contemporary term referring to the area under Imperial rule on the continent of Tamriel".
  • Change "Three such empires have been established only to fall again within a few hundred years" to "There have been three such Empires over the history of Tamriel, each having disintegrated/fallen/collapsed after a few centuries".
  • Change "The Imperial Empire first came into existence after the fall of the Ayleid Empire" to "The first Imperial Empire came into existence..."
  • Change "to keep the Daedra out of the mortal realm" to "to prevent the Daedra from entering the mortal realm".

TheEnigmaticMan Wouldst thou speak?Mine handiwork 14:46, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

It all sounds good. For the record, you don't have to ask to make edits. Remember to be bold, if you made a mistake someone will clean it up soon enough. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 14:54, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
It is thus recorded that at the time of editing, consensus abounded and was acknowledged by at least two members of the wiki. Therefore, it is considered patent that TheEnigmaticMan cannot be the instigator of any edit war that may result from this edit.
TheEnigmaticMan Wouldst thou speak?Mine handiwork 14:57, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Fourth Empire???[edit]

I see no evidence that at the beginning of "Skyrim", that the Third Empire had actually collapsed. In fact, the Imperials still state that it is Talo's Empire.

Yes it has had a change of Dynasty. But that doesn't mean the Empire had fallen.

I'd propose that the Empire is still the same one as in previous games. However, it is collapsing.

I believe that what the article means is that the third Empire is the Septim Dynasty, which is now extinct. The Mede Dynasty is in charge now, so it is the "fourth Empire". The 1st being Saint Alessia's Empire and the second being Reman Cyrodiil's. That is all it refers to is which Dynasty it's at. Hope I've cleared that up for you. SnowmaneTEC 11:09, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
No, I still think it;'s still the Third Empire. Just because it had a change of dynasty doesn't mean it becomes titled the "Fourth Empire". After Reman's Dynasty fell, the Empire will still called the Second Empire under the Akaviri Potentate.
The Cyrodiilic Empire would have to collapse and a new Dominant Empire of Man would have to arise before it is known as the Fourth Empire.
And also, I don;t think Allessia's Empire was called the First Empire. the term *Numeric* Empire refers to the Empires of Man. Skyrim was the First Empire of Man (various references including dialogue from Balgruuf's Brother and the stones at High Hrothgar). Alessia would be the First Cyrodiilic Empire. Right-Hand-Of-Sithis 09:32, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
In response to your statement about the Akaviri Potentate, he was already part of the Second Empire, and took the helm after the assassination of the Emperor. The difference with the Septim Empire and the second, is that all the Septims were dead, and the High Chancellor was evidently assassinated as shown here. There was no structure left when Mede took over, so it is effectively a new Empire. But, after Reman III died, his Potentate, or advisor, Versidue-Shaie continued managing the Empire's affairs until his death in 2E 424 and the assassination of his sons in 2E 430, both by the Morag Tong, which left nobody to maintain the Empire, thus ending the second Empire. That is why I believe that the Fourth Empire is an appropriate title. SnowmaneTEC 11:59, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. I've referred to it as the "Fourth Empire" before, but it was based on a faulty assumption. We've got to view the matter through the lens of a Tamrielic citizen, and there's simply no evidence they ever use the term. As far as I know, that is, but the burden is on the pro-Fourth Empire crowd to find examples from Skyrim or the official novels. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 12:13, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Lack of informations[edit]

I came here to find answers about imperialism and similar. I remember reading about Uriel VII trying to abolish cultural differences in the earliest part of his life, and that he changed his mind after being freed from Jagar Tharn. What's the Medes dinasty opinion? Does the new empire want to force the few peoples left under it to adopt cyrodil customs? We know about the white gold concordat, but IIRC the emperor was willing to let the nords worshipping Talos after the Markarth Incident, then the Thalmor stepped in. But Talos is a humankind divinity, what would the empire do with the dunmer and their religion? Is there a lore-master that can share something?-- 10:39, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

From what I know, there's nothing to suggest that the Medes tried to spread the Imperial culture aggresively, especially considering the fact that the Fourth Era Empire lost its influences in most of the outer provinces. The persecution of Talos worshippers, which was a result of the White-Gold Concordat, wasn't something that the Empire really wanted to do, it was only forced by the Aldmeri Dominion to cement the idea of elven supremacy. As for the Dunmer and their religion, after the Oblivion Crisis and the Argonian invasion the Empire lost practically all of its influence in Morrowind and "released its grasp" on it. This caused the Dunmer to hate them, and even cost House Hlaalu, the biggest supporter of the Empire, its Great House status. Thus I believe the Empire wouldn't really have much opportunity to affect the formation of the New Temple. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 13:14, 20 September 2015 (UTC)