Shivering talk:The Lady of Paranoia

Caldana Monrius

Anyone know where to find Caldana Monrius - cant seem to find the sod Pferris 18:59, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Bhisha told me about the meetings after a zap of lightning. --Briareus 20:44, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Does anyone know the command to complete this quest instantly? — Unsigned comment by 85.210.141.123 (talk)

If you get stuck in the glitch where the conspirators will meet but not talk, you can advance the quest using the console command: setstage SE05 70 This will give you the quest update message saying you've overheard their conversation and need to confront them. — Unsigned comment by 72.131.45.252 (talk)

If you are a vampire, apparently you cannot finish the quest once the cat man finds out.

Looting Muurine

Comment moved here from main article:

After Muurine is dead, and in the cage, if you loot her, and see that she has 21k clubs, DON'T TAKE THEM! This glitch will make your file unloadable, while it is fun to loot them, and spread them all around you, the glitch will ruin your saved file. — Unsigned comment by 65.31.34.209 (talk)

Could somebody provide some additional information here? For example why on earth Muurine would have thousands of clubs? Is this something that happens in normal games, or is there a third-party mod that could be responsible for this? --Nephele^Talk 01:37, 5 March 2008 (EST)

, and, oddly, thirteen thousand three hundred and four clubs

I just moved that here from the article too. I'm with Nephele here; I can see no way for this to happen. There's nothing in the CS and I've never experienced this in the 5 times I've done the quest. I appreciate that this has now been added by two users but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and I'd prefer that the note came with some details of how it happens. Having it reported by a known user as opposed to an anonymous one would help too. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:19, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

It just happened to me today. 18,446 Clubs plus one equipped. I took pictures, sorry for the quality I had to use a digital camera. This is on the GOTY PS3 version.

Mauurine in the cage

Mauurine's inventory (minus the spiffy clothes I looted)

--Shugo Ookami 20:14, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

This happened to me too! I have Oblivion for the 360 and have downloaded all of the "official plugins" except for horse armor, the orrey, and spell tomes. I looted her and found 7125 clubs and 1 equipped after she was killed in the cage. Maybe it has something to do with the little fight club that she's in? It did not break my game though. I looted them to make sure it was really "7k" clubs, and then 'grab-dropped' them as 1 item and was able to load a save file with all 7125 of them laying there just fine. I've loaded a couple of ealier saves, one from earlier in the "Lady of Paranoia" quest, and 1 from before the quest started. Pickpocketing her in both saves still shows 7k clubs and reveals that it is not related to the quest, it seems that she has had these clubs since my character arrived in the Isles. It seems to be strange but harmless. This is the other site I came up with googling "Muurine clubs" and it seems this glitch has affected at least 2 other people.

link

I'm no scripting expert, but I have to believe that this is some kind of a glitch in SEMuurineScript, where it's adding and removing clubs, much as it does for Ushnar gro-Shadborgob. Given that there are thousands of them in this case, instead of relatively small numbers, I would guess that OnPackageStart SEMuurineFightDay20x2 is being fired multiple times. Looking at the two scripts, SEMuurineScript and SECaldanaMonriusScript, there's an obvious potential for each script to call each other and thus get into a loop, but why it would actually do that, I can't figure out. Perhaps this is one for Kivan? :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:26, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

Update: I've reported the problem to Kivan by private e-mail and he's promised to take a look at it. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:43, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

To add some speculation from IRC.... One reason why OnPackageStart might get triggered repeatedly is if the NPC got stuck somewhere at the edge of the distance condition that is built into the package. For example, one of Muurine's packages only triggers if she is less than 768 feet from Caldana. If Muurine got stuck behind a wall that happens to be 768 feet from the Fight Club, then the package could repeatedly be turned on and off (for example, if each attempt by Muurine to jump over the wall moved her just inside the 768 feet, then falling back from the jump took her outside again). That could repeat continuously for two straight hours, until the fight time is over. It seems possible that it would only take getting stuck like that once to generate thousands of clubs. Getting stuck at the exact wrong location probably isn't a common occurrence... but the reports we're getting don't require something that's a common occurrence (3 reports out of thousands of UESP readers?) At least seems like it might be worth investigating further. --Nephele^Talk 02:43, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

I agree that it's due to the fight packages triggering repeatedly when the conditions are met. So to prevent this I set the "Once per day" flag on them all so they can't trigger more than once per game calendar day, and the scripting will now remove all their sparring weapons before giving them another one, and also remove all of them (instead of just one) when the packages end. This should fix it up nicely. I also fixed all of the Fight Club NPC's (also Caldana, Ma'zaddha and Ushnar) as since their scripting/packages are the same for this and at the same location it's possible that it could happen to all of them. Thanks for pointing this out. :^) Kivan 15:17, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

Ma'zaddha's Cabinet

The journal update suggests that you can safely store items in Ma'Zaddha's cabinet. Is this true? I am afraid to try it myself. Vontos 22:52, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes it's safe to use - it's definitely not set to respawn and has no owner. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:58, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Ma'zaddha's House

I entered Ma'zaddha's house after waiting for 24 hours and my game froze me in place. I can enter my inventory, pause, drop weapons, and look around. But nothing else. I cannot move, pick up weapons, talk, cast spells, or even leave. I dropped a bunch of stuff just playing around since I have to reload anyway, and it unlocked my game. Whats happening?

Nevermind, I got it to work. I drank one potion and the game started working again. Has anyone else had this problem? — Unsigned comment by 69.136.51.232 (talk)

Being able to look around but not move sounds like 'DisablePlayerControls', but I don't see how drinking a potion would have any effect. It may just have been fortunate timing, although I can't remember whether your controls are supposed to be disabled at this point.

Another possibility is that your fatigue had been drained and you had collapsed to the ground. --Gaebrial 02:25, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Alternatives to torture

With some of the informants, you can persuade them to talk to you by hitting them with a powerful charm spell. This works with Kithlan but not Anya Herrick, and occasionally with the informant in Crucible. Also, I've never had to torture Muurine to get her to talk, once I have Nelrene's confession; she just goes right into confession when I bring up the subject.

I was thrilled to discover this because having to torture people makes me rather queasy. Or does this not work for others? Wordmama 01:07, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Ma'zaddha's Body

At the step where you return after a day to talk to Ma'zaddha, I had an odd problem... Without waiting at all, I went to talk to Ma'zaddha, and found him asleep in his bed. He merely told me there was no need to torture him, as he had agreed to help. So I left the house, waited a few hours, and came back in - and he repeated the same thing. I waited inside until midnight, and then a full 24 hours, but he was still saying the same thing. Finally, I went outside, told Herdir to wait, and then came back in. This worked - his dead body immediately showed up.

So if you have a similar problem, where Ma'zaddha refuses to actually die, try not having Herdir follow you around. It could be that he asks you to come alone; did I just miss that? Krenn 19:07, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

It's not Herdir, It's because you were waiting INSIDE his house, he doesn't die unless you come in the house when it's unlocked around midnight the next day. — Unsigned comment by 66.242.94.225 (talk) at 00:06 on 19 July 2011 (GMT)

Herdir has disappeared

PLEASE HELP!!!!I am playing the GoTY edition for PS3 and Herdir has disappeared completely:(I cannot find him anywhere....I even have detect life 2ofeet on so i can see people walking around in crucible and bliss and still he is not one of them...hes not in the palace grounds torture room or the palace. — Unsigned comment by 89.100.72.142 (talk) on 20 Oct 2008

Have you already told him to follow you? If you do, there's a good chance you just have to wait until he catches up with you. (You probably moved too fast, Herdir got behind). If you haven't talked to him yet, you've probably run into those one-time-only bugs. Try reloading an older save.--LordDagon^T|C 11:24, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

same here. i told him to wait and he just disappeared?

Ma'zaddha's Junk

This is my first time editing this wiki, so if I'm doing anything incorrectly, please excuse me. Anyway, it may be a good idea to note on the quest page that on the upper floor of Ma'zaddha's house, on a rack (or whatever they're called) there is a pair of zero weight "Shirt With Suspenders", which becomes un-owned after the sword and note are taken from Ma'zaddha's cabinet, so it isn't stealing. Or is it already mentioned enough on other spaces of the site? — Unsigned comment by 70.20.232.216 (talk) on 18 December 2008

We wouldn't usually mention that on a quest page. It does, however, get a mention here. Welcome to the wiki! –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:22, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Stop him fleeing

I went invisible and attacked the torturer and he started fleeing I have waited three game days but he won't stop or follow me is there any way to stop him fleeing? — Unsigned comment by Dadrak (talk • contribs) on 21 April 2009

As with any other NPC, yield him (press the block button and then attempt conversation), otherwise try a Charm spell. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:54, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

To stop someone fleeing, a Rally spell is usually more helpful than charm. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:58, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Torturing

(moved from the article)

• If you torture Nelrene before confronting her about the conversation with Ma'zaddha, then, if you attempt to torture her, Herdir will interrupt you after each shock, rendering Nelrene incapable of confessing.

If anybody has any idea what this is about, can they rewrite it and put it back in the bugs section. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:48, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

From My understanding, when the player elects to torture a character multiple times one after another, and they have no information to say, Herdir interrupts and prompts the player to stop, as to stop players futilely torturing people when there is no need, as they have no information that would advance the quest. I have encountered this on my PS3 game, but have not encountered any bugs regarding it later.

Auguil 23:37, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Problems regarding Anya Herrik

After torturing Kurdan to obtain the information that Anya has been acting strangely, I move outside to where she is standing in the Gardens of New Sheoth Palace. However, when dialogue is opened with her, no topic appears regarding "conspiracy" and the only gold topic is "Rumous" I am playing on the PS3 GOTY edition, and have played the game through once before with no problems, but have encountered this quest breaking glitch this time. Is there any way that I can either bypass talking to Anya? Or is there something I have missed? I am pretty sure that Herdir is still follwing me, but does he have to be within a certain distance of the Person in order for the topic to appear? Please Help!

Auguil 23:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, you have to talk to her. Try reloading a previous save and do it again; it should work. --Elliot^(T-C) 09:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

VN tag (moved form article)

The following was added to the article by 84.71.55.248 on October 12, 2009.

This happened to me too (PS3 GOTY edition)- he did reappear when I fast travlled to Bliss - it takes a while for him to find you - just fast travel to Bliss - go out the gate and explore the surrounding area takes a few mins but he should appear. I spoke to him and sent him back to the palace - following him now to see if he gets there.

Prision

In Herdir's torture chamber/prison, if you look in some cages you see some prisioners inside them. If you use the console to unlock or disable the doors of the cage, What are their names? and what do they say? Thank you! (I know this may seem like useless info but I'm interested) --Arch-Mage Matt 20:29, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

They have no names, they are simply called "Prisoner". --Timenn-<talk> 21:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Conversation error

i have a problem with the conversation between Ma'zaddha and Nelrene, they meet but they dont talk. I´m sure that i´m not seen. From what i´ve read this may be caused by Herdir following me but i can not start a conversation with him. But i managed to hide him behind the crates. Then i tried to talk to them but it does not work. So i told Herdir to throw bolts at Nelrene it seemed to work but then she told me that please no more. So i´ve repeated the whole procces and used a potion of invisibility but she found me either. So anyone knows about a solution?? — Unsigned comment by 213.108.120.55 (talk) on 16 November 2009

I don't believe detection comes into play. You merely have to be at some distance from the two NPCs to allow them to start their conversation. This means you have to hide behind those crates yourself as well. --Timenn-<talk> 13:09, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Moved from article

This comment was moved from the Bugs section, regarding Herdir's disappearance. –Eshe^talk 02:02, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

This happened to me too, on the 360 version. I started the quest, I left out of slight boredom, came back, and he was nowhere to be found. Right after reading that waiting may make him come back, just above what I'm writing, I walked through the door to the Crucible, and he appeared as if nothing happened, and I'm finishing the quest right now. — Unsigned comment by 71.56.76.250 (talk) on Nov 28, 2009

Bug solution

From the page:

• For some strange reason, there is a bug that causes Herdir to completely disappear from the game. If you begin the quest, but before completing it, decide to adventure off in Cyrodiil, Herdir may be gone when you come back into the Isles. He will not respawn at the dungeon, nor will resting, sleeping, or restarting the save file work. The only solution so far is to reload a save in which the quest has not yet been started. Sometimes waiting for a long time in Crucible allows him to reappear. {{VN|Needs more details, has only been reported once, on PS3 GOTY edition.}}

Happened to me all i did was go to the church and started attacking the preists then he came out of nowhere and started to attack me i yeilded problem solved (xbx goty edition)— Unsigned comment by 70.173.72.64 (talk) on 17 December 2009

I have also got the glitch where Herider completly dispeares. Also on the PS3 Goty version. I think I sent him back to the castle, and then went to Cyrodill. I played through a couple of other quests first and then when I returned and headed back to the castle, Herider was no where to be found. Waiting in Crucible doesn't seemed to have helped. 82.29.132.242 09:45, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Seen but not seen

I'm having a lot of trouble with the meeting between Ma'zaddha and Nelrene. I'm behind the crates, in sneak mode, and even though there isn't anyone around for some distance, my crosshair shows that someone notices me. Neither character talks to the other, but when I jump out, my quest updates, telling me I've been spotted, and the characters split. I can't get them to talk at all. I'm playing GOTY on 360. 71.66.108.133 11:54, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Never mind. I'm not sure what the exact problem was, but in three prior "meetings," Nelrene was at the meeting place before Ma'zaddha and they never talked. This time, Ma'zaddha was there first, then Nelrene showed up, and they conversed as normal. The crosshair showing me as being visible to someone still bothers me though, since there's literally no one around except for the sleeping beggar in that little hole in the wall. 71.66.108.133 12:02, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I was thinking... could the fact that the crosshair shows me as always being noticed have to do with the fact that everyone's paranoid and whatnot and always thinks something/someone's there that's not? Makes sense to me. 71.66.108.133 15:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Nope. Detection is based on NPCs' Sneak skill, not on concepts such as paranoia. --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:47, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

information from anya

i can't get information from her regarding the conspiracy because she is outside the gate to the fringe on the side of ccyrodiil. — Unsigned comment by 82.139.64.190 (talk) on 30 May 2010

She's in Cyrodiil??? Are you sure you've got the right person here? If she really is that far away then you're going to have trouble. Try a Command Humanoid spell to force her to follow you back. I don't know if that will work in this case though - you may be better off loading an earlier save. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:14, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

yh hi ... erm i have a problem with the torturing part .... i am playing the goty edition and this has never happened before ... (i had the game since it came out) , i can bribe kithlan but anya herrick say's she knows nothing and there is no option to torture her soo i can't advance any ideas....??

Solution for Herdir's disappearance?

Is it possible to terminate any problems with Herdir's disappearance, if we will change his script into forced teleporting to the player if he's too far? - ZuTheSkunk 20:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I mean, of course, add such part. - ZuTheSkunk 21:06, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Herdir wont talk

I've gotten to the point in the quest (On the 360 version) where I need to overhear Nelrene's and Ma'zaddha's midnight conversation, but Herdir keeps on following me and getting in the way. As Haskill told me, he isn't one for not being seen. So I attempted talking to him to get him to stop following me and return to the palace, but he wouldnt talk to me! I mean I pressed a when my cursor was over him and the words "Talk Herdir" were clearly in front of me, yet nothing happens. I've tried talking to him in town, in the palace, outside the palace and in lots of places but no matter what I do he doesn't respond, just follows me. This seems to have happened after I was arrested by a guard for getting caught sneaking into Ma'zaddha's house. Help? :D?

I solved this problem by going up and talking to Nelrene and telling Herdir to torture her. This meant I got caught and had to wait another 24 hours to continue the quest, but it fixed the problem. Hope that helps!

Entering Ma'zaddha's House

Well im at the point in the quest where i need to talk to Nelrene to get her involvement with the conspiracy, but herdir keeps interupting me, so Nelrene can't confess. Then i waited a day, when i walked into Ma'zaddha's house his body should have been there, but it isn't. The quest marker is green and it points me to right where his body should be, but his actually body isn't there. I can't search it if it isn't there. Can someone tell me how to fix this and get on with the quest? Oh and also im playing the GOTY addition for the ps3, i don't know if that affects anything.(174.25.170.26 00:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC))

Try going outside Ma'zaddha's House and waiting another 24 hours, then re-enter. As I recall, the dead body won't show up unless you're outside the house. There's also always the option of re-loading from an earlier save and just plain trying again. – Robin Hood↝talk 02:56, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

BACK IN SHIVERING ISLES, NOW "THE LADY OF PARANOIA" QUEST WON'T WORK

I bought Oblivion platinum version at first. I went to the shivering isles and finished some quests. Then I found out about the "vampire glitch" in the game which made me buy the original Oblivion version instead, making shivering isles disappear from my savings. All the stuff I had collected disappeared and also the quests I had finished in shivering isles. Now I bought the Game of the year-edition and is back in shivering isles. The problem is that some things has change. It's like I've been there before (which I have, I'm running the same saving-file as the last time I was there) but a lot of options has disappeared. Sheogorath won't talk to me for example and I have no keys to the private gardens. And also, when I started up the main quest again by talking to Herdir, Kithlan and Anya won't allow me to confront them about the conspiracy. I can only chose "rumors". Is there anything I can do or do I just have to start all over with a new file?— Unsigned comment by 85.231.79.33 (talk) at 13:17 on 10 November 2010

Check out this section for details. Hopefully, you can find some help - but I do hope, you kept an older save... --Krusty 13:27, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

The vampire glitch isn't really a problem, I've already finished that quest. The problem is the "the lady of paranoia" quest in shivering isles. I haven't got any save from before I went in to the shivering isles for the first time, so I guess it's hopeless... — Unsigned comment by 85.231.79.33 (talk) at 14:10 on 10 November 2010

I realise that, but as the section points out, switching versions of the game can have fatal consequences for your progress in the Isles. --Krusty 14:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

My bad! I didn't read it all through cause I thought it was only about the vampire glitch, but I see now that there is some things that might not work when you switch versions. I was sadly stupid enough to sell that platinum version of mine, when I bought the original version, thinking I wouldn't be needing it anymore. I had no idea that this would happen. I thought it would come back. — Unsigned comment by 85.231.79.33 (talk) at 14:29 on 10 November 2010

Execution Speech Bug

Sometimes, after exposing the traitor to the Duchess, she will proceed to the torture chamber normally, but her speech will not start. Attempting to speak with her will result in a message saying you will speak once in the chamber, despite her already being present there. Should this happen, select Syl in the console, and type set Speech to 1. This should force her execution speech and proceed with the quest normally.
Is there a way to fix this bug without the console? I have encountered it on the Xbox 360 version and don't have any saves old enough to go back to. --Enodoc 20:48, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Not quite sure which of these is most relevant, but I've managed to work around it: I paralyzed Syl before she reached the torture chamber, activated the button in the chamber, made myself invisible, ran outside before the battle music finished, turned myself in to a Seducer (had a bounty of 40 for attacking Syl), and then I returned to the chamber. While the speech still didn't start, Muurine had ended up outside her cell, so I killed her 'normally' and it advanced the quest. (Along with receiving the Dark Brotherhood notification and a 1040 bounty, but there you go.) --Enodoc 16:31, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Not clubs, for me :/

I uncovered the glitch a couple minutes ago where if you kill Muurine , she has an extremely high number of clubs. I thought this was quite hilarious, as my Muurine had not only over 7,000 clubs in her inventory (When I pickpocketed her) but over 25,000 daggers as well. Not a real problem, just thought it was worth mentioning :P — Unsigned comment by SimplyTroll (talk • contribs) at 21:50 on 2 August 2011

ANOTHER conversation bug

I've told the torture to wait a block or so away, out of sight. I have a very high chameleon level and sneak skill. My eye never lights up.

When the Khajiit arrives, they start talking, then he says "The Inquisior got to her. We'll have to find someone else." Then ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happens. I waited several hours in-game then they both leave. Confronting/torturing them does nothing. Any advice? Dbbolton (talk) 03:31, 29 July 2014 (GMT)