Lore talk:Dagoth Ur

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Is it really germane to openly refer to Dagoth Ur as "evil" ? He wasn't exactly evil for evil's sake, like a diabolical madman out to cause as much pain and destruction as possible. His story is actually rather tragic and complex. It seems a disservice to introduce him as "the evil immortal Lord High Councilor of House Dagoth, who dwells beneath Red Mountain". It seems to me that he cannot be considered evil any more than Sheogorath can. --76.202.248.34 06:18, 11 December 2008 (EST)

After the Tribunal left Lord Voryn Dagoth to look after the Heart of Lorkhan and the Tools of Kagrenac, he experimented with them and stole some of its divine influence to become Dagoth Ur. When Nerevar came back with the Tribunal's decision to destroy the heart, Dagoth Ur wouldn't let him get to it. After a battle Dagoth Ur was defeated, but not destroyed because of his immortality, and Nerevar was fatally wounded, dying shortly after.
Dagoth Ur killed one of his friends in trying to keep the Heart for himself for his own devious purposes. He also drove back the Tribunal when they came to visit the Heart Chamber to renew their connections to the Heart. The Tribunal of people who used to be his friends. That sounds pretty evil to me.

--penguin0719TalkContribs09:35, 11 December 2008 (EST)

We don't pass judgment on other bloody-minded deities, like Vivec and Morihaus. But I just cut it for sentence flow.24.31.156.165 13:47, 11 December 2008 (EST)
His story is actually rather tragic and complex.

That's precisely what makes him a great villain. I agree that the distinct label "evil" is not entirely accurate here. With all the conflicting perspective, the half-dozen different accounts of the events of the Battle of Red Mountain, and the trickery and confusion encountered when dealing with him in-game, even though he is the "Devil and the Enemy" of the Ashlanders, "the evil immortal enemy of the Tribunal Temple cult", elsewhere he is not reviled as evil in the black-and-white sense. Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 16:08, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Voice Talent[edit]

Does anyone know who voiced Dagoth Ur? It sounds like the same person who voiced Mehrunes Dagon in morrowind HugoL 23:28, 10 January 2009 (EST)HugoLHugoL 23:28, 10 January 2009 (EST)

NVM I have found it is Jeff Baker--HugoL 18:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Vivec's Power [Moved][edit]

I have read a lot of lore concerning the history of morrowind, dagoth ur, and the tribunal. How come the lore all says that "dagoth Ur got more powerful while the tribunal grew weaker", and in one notable excerpt, "At this point, the tribunal couldn't even fight a ash vampire". And vivec isn't strong enough to go fight dagoth ur himself and has failed at this. If this is all true, how come ash vampires crumble fairly easily at the hands of a decent level character, and dagoth ur is defeatable as well; while vivec can kill even the most powerful characters within a few hits, as well as has far superior health to dagoth ur? I would appreciate an answer. thanks. — Unsigned comment by Noctoural88 (talkcontribs) at 03:13 on 23 July 2009 (UTC)

there is a video on youtube of this fight and sadly ;( vivec gets completely battered by Dagoth Ur (mainly because of his shield ability) --Tabloes 22:09, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

pre-morrowind dagoth ur[edit]

id like to hear more about dagoth ur in arena and before the events of the morrowind game

Sharmat?[edit]

Any particular reason why Vivec's nickname for old Dagoth is absent from the page? Minor Edits 00:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any. I've never heard of it myself, but feel free to add it if you have a reference. Legoless 00:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, the lessons of Vivec mention the Sharmat repeatedly, always implying that he is Dagoth Ur (or, perhaps in a more abstract way, the doom that Dagoth Ur embodies), and the book Sithis more directly links Dagoth with the term: "Go unto the Sharmat Dagoth Ur as a friend." — Unsigned comment by Minor Edits (talkcontribs) at 19:58 on May 1, 2011

The Evil of the Heart of Lorkhan[edit]

I have seen reference both here and on the Almalexia lore page, to the fact that the 'natural evil' of the Heart of Lorkhan allowed Dagoth Ur to become stronger, whilst the Tribunal became weaker. On the Almalexia lore page, this idea is not referenced. Here, the reference for the idea is attributed to The Plan to Defeat Dagoth Ur by Vivec. However I can't see a reference to this apparent 'natural evil' in Vivec's plan. I also cannot find any other reference to the 'natural evil' - crucially it is not mentioned on the Heart of Lorkhan page, where, as someone only recently learning the history of the Tribunal, I would expect there to be direct reference to this important aspect of the Heart's nature. Can someone explain or find reference to this idea of the Heart's 'natural evil'? If a direct reference can be found I wonder if it would be worth making sure the reference is included where the 'natural evil' is mentioned in the Dagoth Ur and Almalexia pages, and also for the information to be added to the Heart of Lorkhan page. If the only reference to it is in game by a certain character, I wonder if it's worth making the point that said character 'suggests' that the Heart contains a 'natural evil', particularly because the true moral character of Lorkhan is such a controversial topic. I am happy to pick up minor edits as a result of this if needed. Thanks! Threepwood87 14:32, 09 September 2012

A lot of the pages are incomplete. If you think something's missing, go ahead and add it. But to understand the Lorkhan and his Heart, though, I think you need to carefully analyze a large host of writings, in particular Spirit of Nirn, God of Mortals (imo the foundation for understanding Lorkhan), The Monomyth (Lorkhan = Sep), and the often-overlooked Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi. I have a lot more to say on the subject, but frankly, this is a pretty forum-like topic, so I'll just PM you. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 07:53, 13 September 2012 (GMT)
I removed the "natural evil" bit just now. It seems to be fan speculation that's hung around way too long. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 20:50, 22 May 2013 (GMT)