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I intend to make a custom Nightblade with:

Birthsign: The Lady. (I have my reasons)
Specialization: Magic
+5 Speed +5 Intelligence

Alchemy
Alteration
Blade
Mysticism
Sneak
Athletics
Acrobatics

Three races are considered for this. Argonian, Breton, and Dunmer.
Which would be best for this class?

Breton has the more Intelligence and Willpower to start with, and 50% magic resist. Argonian has nice bonuses in 5 of the 7 skills. Dunmer kinda makes sense too.

I like that build. I'll like it even more if it is a Breton. I just find their magic resistance hard to part with. And The Lady birthsign will start your Willpower at 60 with a Breton (as well as making up for their lower Endurance).

Will this character wear armor?

No. He will use shield enchantments on clothes @ 6 pieces. shoes pants shirt amulet ring ring for 60% shield and cast a 25% shield for 2 mins before battle @ 100 Alteration.
Like if he is detected.

And yes I agree that Breton is a good choice. Also unlike the other 2 races considered, Bretons have +50 Magicka, which is like a free mage birthsign.

Sneak training (in the prison before the blades attack the first few assassins) will supply rapid agility gain. Ie sneak till about 50/55. Get's about 4-5 levels of +5 agility.
Then after I exit the sewer, some beneath the bridge jumping till acrobatics is 50 will supply enough speed to cover the starting 30 speed.

Id drop athletics or acrobatics or both, they level really fast and it'll likely cause you to over level. Acrobatics is easy to level anyway and if you want good movement speed use a feather enchant, your carry weight compared to your max carry weight has a huge impact on speed. Also alchemy isn't a great major either, its really easy to level as a minor skill and its a great control for INT multipliers. Also personally i feel a nightblade just isn't a nightblade without illusion its pretty much the key skill for that class and its absurd that they took it out for the oblivion version of the class.

"Sneak training (in the prison before the blades attack the first few assassins) will supply rapid agility gain. Ie sneak till about 50/55. Get's about 4-5 levels of +5 agility.
Then after I exit the sewer, some beneath the bridge jumping till acrobatics is 50 will supply enough speed to cover the starting 30 speed."


Unless you know something I don't, I think this will screw you.

You will only get +5 in Agility (a nonessential attribute, IMO) and level up several times with +0 in anything else, and then you are going to do the same thing when you get out of the sewer with Speed (another nonessential attribute.) Then you will waste another level or two with Athletics building uncontrollably.

When you are ready to start playing, you will be at level 10-12 with the same paltry Breton endurance/health you started with, and you will be fairly wimpy for not having done anything with Willpower and Intelligence in those ten levels.

If you want to sneak undetected and jump high, train those as minor skills.

The game is actually pretty boring (very easy) when you start out with high sneak (at 50-60). I don't know if you've ever tried playing by actually sneaking around (walking slowly and softly barefoot) rather than relying on the skill to go unnoticed, but early in the game, the bad guys are pretty laid back, and they tell you when you are in trouble of being discovered (+25 = major skill, is very effective). You can also use the Jones stone spell for everything you are trying to do. It only takes +10 reknown to get.

Bretons need Endurance so they won't get killed by a dirty look, and Strength so they can carry their lunch without passing out. I would work on these first to balance out the character and make a long life possible.
A Nightblade supposedly fights with a blade, which means you will be up close getting hit and need strength to deal more damage.

Your strategy may not even work. I think I tried super boosting a major skill in the sewer and something went terribly wrong when I got out and went to sleep. I think I only got one level up (and one +5). It sucked after hours of boring training play in the sewer.

IMO, there are only two things to consider when choosing a race, Endurance and Magic. You can toughen up a Breton or an Altmer, and you can make a dumb brut smarter, but the intermediate races are weak in the things needed to fight and survive, Strength, Endurance, Willpower, and Intelligence. It's a heck of a lot easier to make a Nord more effective in magic (Mage or Atronach sign plus sorcery potions and Welkynd stones) than to make a Breton tougher in a fight. My Kajiit is good at running away, but it is difficult to get anything done without getting killed.

Yeah i was always fairly certain that any skill increases you get before selecting your class in the sewers only counted towards multipliers for the first level and nothing beyond that.... you could Get a decent 5/5/5 level for your first level up but beyond that your on your own.

Power leveling any major skill is usually a bad idea too. and come to think of it would't you rather just play the game and have fun instead of standing under a bridge jumping for hours.

It's less boring to jump down a mountain taking damage to build acrobatics. It probably builds skill points faster, as well -- seems to anyway. Dive Rock is good, but Cloud Ruler temple is too.

You can build up certain things in the sewers and be OK. I always build up Heavy Armor to about 65 and then get my endurance +5 mostly from armorer and some block on the outside (I often pay for lessons and use destruction to damage armor on dead bodies). That way I don't have to suffer the weight of the armor as a weak character for long. I have done it with sneek and acrobatics, but the Sneak made the game too easy and the Acrobatics had little value except to make getting +5 speed more difficult later on.


If you have a major skill in each catagory you can waste one of the skills by either over playing it or under playing it. With Alteration as a major skill I liberally play Destruction and heavily play Alteration, but never touch Restoration. I could super charge it in the sewers if I wanted.

Light armor (major skill) and acrobatics are both easily trained to get +5 when you want. If you do not wear Light Armor except for training, you can run around all you want and waste the points.

I wonder if I train alchemy (minor) to 100 on a character lv.1 will it screw up the 5/5/5 gains..
If not, then leveling efficiently would be easier with alchemy at 100, mainly because when I try to level efficiently, my character often lacks abilities to make quests and fights more bearable (invisibility in thieves guild is an example, in case illusion is a mayor), so making potent potions would be great...

It shouldn't at default difficulty unless you start with low intelligence and seriously overplay conjuration and mystecism each level. Do you really need more than 75-Expert level that early in the game?

Where do you use invisibility during the Thieves guild quests?

Definitely want to avoid athletics and acrobatics, that'll make the game harder than it needs to be.

For race, I agree and say Breton, though in the end I don't think it really matters once you get later into the game. The bonuses on the Breton are just really nice.

Well I usually use Invisibility potions when needing to sneak past someone, like the quest forgotten histories, or ardahji's heirloom.. actually I use invisibility more often in Dark Bro. quests. Chameleon is all nice and good but usually make those with bloodgrass at master alchemy level.

Some of the Dark Brotherhood quests can use chameleon/invisibility (murder the prisoner needs it at one point), but the thieves guild quests really don't unless you are role playing them harder than they have to be.

Spoiler:



I don't think it is worth screwing up 5-5-5 if you don't have too.