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Well, the hybrid combat-stealth-mage character performed about on par with what I expected, but failed to overly impress. I joined the Fighter and Mage Guilds after clearing the sewers and speaking to Jauffre at Weynon Priory. Then I proceeded to complete the Chorrol and Skingrad Mage Guild Recommendation quests without a hitch, but all that only got me to level two.

Now after going back and refreshing my memory about several of the (babysitting) quests, I can already foresee a major problem of keeping NPCs alive during said quests. I distinctly remember what a pain in the arse those quests were even with a pure mage build simply because I didn’t have the Magicka I needed to fuel the necessary custom high level spells, hence this topic and my next question about maximizing Magicka. How well does it really work?

The Oblivion:Magicka wiki covers this and suggests an Altmer-Atronach, but I really don’t want to deal with the Stunted Magicka. The next possible choice is Altmer-Apprentice, which I distinctly remember trying once. The combined weaknesses are more than challenging, but one advantage is giving easy and early access to those spell effects once admission is gained to the Arcane University and the attendant Enchanting and Spell-Making altars.

So how much Magicka is really required? Using a Breton-Mage I ended up with a base Magicka of around 300, which was far from ideal. Many of the more advanced custom spells that would yield adequate protection for NPCs came at the cost of 500+ Magicka so I was forced to get inventive.

I’m currently thinking my target should be around 700, and no less than 500 since some of the custom spells I crafted that provided high-level, long-term protection (Shield) and Health regen were in the 700 to 900 range. I even seem to remember one breaking 1k, but I forget the specifics. So how critical is it to maximize Magicka, how much is needed and how do you get there to be an effective babysit … er, buff spell caster?

"the necessary custom high level spells"
"So how much Magicka is really required?"

I've mentioned getting my butt kicked in my early playing (casting massive spells that didn't work very well, etc), which is why I'm so big on efficiency now. After a lot of number crunching and testing (spells, bows, swords) I found the smallest spells that do the most effective damage.

I am usually walking death with the following minumum (with efficient leveling to build magic +5 with Intelligence most early levels -- all you have to do is make 10 skill points of potions each level, or conjure a bunch of daggers):

1) Breton with any birth sign.
2) A lesser race with The Mage birthsign (Nord is an excellent choice.)


Most/all of the time I have enough magic for at least two spells that will kill with one hit or three spells that will kill with two hits--enough for any fight. With custom-made Restore+Fortify Magicka potions hot keyed, I can cast these big spells continuously during the battle for Kvatch.

For a margin of comfort, wear a couple of things enchanted with fortify magicka made using black soul gems. For lesser races, you can get the fortify magicka spell from the Aetherius stone by Bleak Flats cave once you get 20 fame points. After level 17 switch to some 2-3 peices made using transcendent sigil stones.

Spells:
Up to level 9 or so when headless zombies show up, the custom "touch" spell: soul trap (2 sec) fire-14 pts and drain health-100 pts will kill everything around with one touch for less magic cost than the soul trap spell itself. 2 seconds soul trap is needed for zombies because they have some magic resistance. This spell needs Destruction 25 pts. Go with 15 pts fire if you wear armor and it's level is low. I jack up my heavy armor to 50 or more in the sewers so it works with 14 for me.

After this point, I go with ranged spells.

For most things in these early levels, you can get away with a cheaper drain health spell. I think a lot of things only have 20 health early on. Check the monster health tables.

At the levels where Storm Atronachs show up, 1 sec soul trap, 100 drain health, 31 pts or 38 pts fire, and 100% Weakness to Magic for 3 sec (2 sec works with fast casts, but I like 3 better) will kill all non-leveled creatures with two hits (350 pts or less), except for Land Dreugh, which need a little more (a sword chop or a lesser spell befor hand) because of their 20% resist magic. 31 pts if you have 100% magic and 38 if you have 95% from wearing armor. More fire damage is needed (~40?) if your armor skill is low (but what are you doing with low armor skill at level 20?). The numbers I gave are the minimum possible for two hit kills. I'm almost certain this is still small enough to be a Destruction lvl 50 spell. Some people put a few seconds of invisibility on this spell so the monsters forget you are there --I don't.

At levels middle levels (9-20), you can make an intermediate spell with Drain Health and Weakness to Element instead of the expensive weakness to magic enchantment. If you like to hunt Flame Atronachs, switch from fire to shock. I forget what my exact spell is right now.

Initially, you probably have enough magic for two of these spells at a time, but your number/availability increases if you are getting +5 magicka and +5 willpower bonuses at leveling. A Breton without a Magic bonus birthsign will have three of these I think. With three peices enchanted with transcendant sigil stones you have six spells, and with fast recovery from getting +5 Willpower bonus at leveling, it is very hard to run out of these spells.

Hope this helps.

The spell costs you mention are very high. In Oblvion, the magicka cost of a spell goes down as you increase the skill required for a spell. If you have 10 skill in restoration a healing spell might cost 640 magicka. The same spell costs only 100 magicka when you reach a skill level of 100.

You can get 650 magicka on each character, even fighters, by using gear enchanted with +50 magicka from sigil stones and 100 intelligence which gives 200 extra magicka.

So rather than focus on a specific magicka goal you can use the race you like, the birthsign you like (go for a Mage if you want extra magicka without any downsides) and your spells will get cheaper the longer you play.

hotkey a fortify magicka 50 points item

Every time you take it off and put it back on, the 50 points is instantly restored

You then create spells which all cost 50 points or less to cast

Bretons are thought of as boring by some, but for reference, a Breton Mage can achieve immunity to Magic using one enchantment slot (Mundane Ring). With that out of the way, you're free to use all the character's other items on +50 Magicka from Sigil Stones. With this setup, you get 300 (natural Magicka) + 350 (7 remaining enchanted items w/o shield) = 650 total Magicka with Magicka Regeneration and Magic Immunity (meaning you don't get killed by things with Reflect Spell). The reason I exclude the Shield slot is I believe all shields reduce your spell effectiveness to at least 95%, correct me if I'm wrong. If that's not an issue, then Breton Mages will achieve 700 Magicka with the aforementioned setup.

650-700 is sufficient for the most part, but if you want even more Magicka than that, an Altmer Apprentice can achieve 800 Magicka (or 850 with a shield) by forgoing defense altogether and just using all available slots for Sigil Stones. Note that it's not worth trying to gain Magic Immunity with this setup, because you'll use up so many enchantment slots (a minimum of 5) that you'll end up with at least 100 less net Magicka than the Breton Mage. Note that you will die instantly whenever one of your damage spells is Reflected.

So basically, the question is whether you consider 150 extra Magicka worth giving up magic immunity in exchange for a critical magic weakness and a vulnerability to Reflect. In my opinion, if you just memorize which enemies in the game have Reflect, then going Altmer may very well be worth it, since playing around enemy magic attacks is perfectly viable and often fun. However, Breton allows for more relaxed gameplay overall.

You can make a potion to Fortify magicka/Restore magicka. At Master level Alchemy skill with the best gear 4 of these should get you an extra 300+ magicka for a while. You can also make several custom spells to Fortify magicka/Intelligence 100 points for 60 seconds which each cost about 528 if you master Restoration. Name them sequentially and you can cast one then another and so forth. I've got my character's magicka up to 2400 that way. Good luck!

Thanks, but just for clarification I’m not really worried about the PC’s survival as much as the NPCs we’re forced to babysit from time to time. I remember the first time I encountered this was at Kvatch, and then again with Baurus in the sewers. There’s also several other such quests where you’re supposed to protect various key figures and important NPCs such as Jauffre, etc. Some of these quests depend on your success at this task to obtain leveled rewards, and since I’m looking for the highest possible leveled equipment-items-rewards, they have to be completed at high level, which is notoriously hard to accomplish due to the scaling since some of the NPCs don’t scale and become heavily outmatched and outgunned.

Prime example would be “The Wayward Knight” quest where you have to babysit not just one, but two NPCs. The first time I tried this I used custom Shield-Restore Health spells, but made the mistake of making them On Touch instead of On Target spells and the NPC would invariably make a suicidal charge into combat before I could get the spell off, so On Target is a must as well as long duration and high magnitude effects, all of which only serve to jack up spell casting costs. I’d also like to make it AoE so I can protect multiple NPCs such as Farwil Indarys and Bremman Senyan with one spell if I can target them together before they get into melee.

I’m well aware of the custom 100 point Drain Health effects, which are cheap, good and useful one-shot-kills early on. I’d add a 100 point Weakness to Magicka effect when that stopped working, and if that didn’t do the trick I could still pretty much one-shot anything in the game with a custom Weakness to Fire-Frost-Shock-Magicka spell quickly followed by a blast from Apotheosis. I could add in a Soul Trap effect and one-shot most of even the toughest Daedra and harvest Grand souls all along the way. Oh, and btw, you can equip a shield, maintain 100% spell effectiveness if you also equip a two-handed weapon like a staff, and still reap the benefits of whatever enchantment is on the shield.

Anyway, my strategy in these situations is going to have to consist of some insane targeted buff spell on the NPC(s) followed by a Summons and then Command whatever help I can from the ranks of the enemy considering NPC allies and followers usually manage to get in the way of ranged attacks.

Correction:

The spell I gave above should be:
soul trap 1s
Drain Health 100-1s
Fire 31, 38, or 40, depending on your armor; none, near 100%, or mixed low level.
Weakness to fire 100% 3s (omitted above)
Weakness to magic 100% 3s
It is Destruction level 75
It costs about 100 units at skill Level 75, which is expensive, but it's a knock double punch.

"I distinctly remember what a pain in the arse those quests were even with a pure mage build simply because I didn’t have the Magicka I needed to fuel the necessary custom high level spells, hence this topic and my next question about maximizing Magicka. How well does it really work?"

The long and short of it is that it doesn't work (not at the default difficulty)--not if you plan on saving the suicidal NPCs with ease or at all. Farwil Indarys and his buddies will jump into the lava after monsters if you don't sprint ahead and kill everything before they can get to it, and even then it may take a couple of reloads. It is easier to keep them alive inside the tower. Regenerating their health is possible after each fight. I simply hit the wait button [t key], but you are welcome to cast regeneration spells on them since they are too stupid to use their own spells.

I've fought all those big battles with two hit weaponry (2 spell hits, two swords hits, spell followed by sword) and once with a big paralyze staff. I cut down the monsters as fast as I could hit them, but short of making a novelty spell that will put all the idiot suicidal NPCs asleep while you kill the bad guys (is it possible?) the idiots are going to run into your kill zone and get murdered. The higher the level and more powerful and effective your spells are, the worse the situation seems to get (you accidentally hit a wounded good guy one time and he drops dead).

Perhaps the best way to keep the NPCs alive is to do the quest at a low level when the number of monsters are low. But still, the quicker you kill, the safer your NPCs will be. You can't sit there all day casting regeneration spells while dozens of daedra chew on them.

" I really wish these types of quests could be handled in a more controlled and measured fashion, or at least at a bit slower pace (I'd be pulling my hair out in frustration if I were a stealth class), but guess that's another discussion thread entirely."

I hear that. I hate when I have to rush into anything. I see it as a flaw in the game so I don't even try to roll play in those situations. I save and reload a lot. I guess I could move the difficulty slider down.

I don't really understand when people talk about a mage, stealth, etc class. I build my characters, so starting skill numbers make little difference to me. If I don't want a bad guy to hear me coming, I take my shoes off and walk carefully, cast Jones spell, or drink a chameleon/invisibility potion.

Mainly what I meant was specifically regarding those babysitting quests, but when I referred to Stealth it was in regard to the main character archetypes (combat, magic, stealth) because I don’t ever bother with Sneak on a Combat or Mage class. It just seems antithetical to me. While Combat classes might comfortably wade into the fray, my Mage characters would prefer to take a more strategic approach, which the AI basically lacks hence the need to compensate with “Magicka”. Unfortunately though, in those situations a Stealth-based Sneak-Thief is at a complete disadvantage.

Does that actually work?

If a Damage/Absorb Fatigue effect is active while the victim's Fatigue is zero, they will fall over limp as its goes below zero. It'll take time for their natural regeneration to bring the Fatigue back up into positive numbers, which is when they get back up.

Wearing something enchanted with Damage Fatigue will slow regeneration. Apply more than one such items and you can halt regeneration or even cause Fatigue to plummet (going this far with another character would paralyze them permanently).

Just reading up on this and it looks to me like Drain Fatigue might be more effective since it doesn’t regenerate and is more cost effective. So if I could knock an NPCs Fatigue down to zero and reverse-pickpocket some zero weight item like a Mage Hood enchanted with Drain Fatigue on Self, would that work to keep it below zero? According to the wiki, damaged Fatigue recovers at ten points per second, so would a ten point magnitude Damage or Drain Fatigue work to keep it constantly below zero until removed?

10 points it is. If you wear a Damage Fatigue item (5 points), it'll slow regeneration. Wearing two such items (10 points), and your Fatigue will not regenerate— you'd have to eat or rest to regain any expended in a fight.

I didn't mention Drain because I wasn't sure if it'd work quite as well. The Drain would knock the numbers down, but the victim would continue to regenerate Fatigue even on top of the active Drain. Damage Fatigue may be more expensive, but you buy more reliability at that price.

I never was sure of the Damage v Drain effects. Think I’m still getting these effects confused with the old “Constant Effect” enchantments where when wearing an item with even one point of damage you would keep taking that damage. Is that still the case or no? think I just might have to tinker around a bit to figure this out.

Yes, wearing something enchanted with Fire/Frost/Shock Damage or Damage Health will continue to hurt you, and eventually kill you. But that's because Health doesn't regenerate like Fatigue.

"Drain" works by lowering the maximum capacity of whatever it affects. You'll have 100 points less than you'd normally possess, for example. But lowering the cap is all it does.

"Damage" works as an actual attack, which leaves behind a negative impression even after the spell/poison has worn off (though in the case of Fatigue, you heal from that damage naturally). This is why a Drain Speed poison stops working after the poison has run its course, but someone hit by Damage Speed will remain slow even after the poison fades off. Damage is more expensive than Drain, but for a very good reason.

Correct me if Im wrong, but reverse pick pocketing zero weight clothing requires the NPC to sleep and then re-dress himself. I don't think that would work for the various main quest baby sitting battles.

I think it's applied after a cell change. Exit and re-enter. NPC's don't remove their clothes when they sleep, after all.

Go to a fighters guild house at bed time. They change clothes. For those NPCs that do not, they still check their inventory for clothing upon waking. That is when they put on the nifty "A Hood of Death." It helps to rename your zero weight item (hood, black shirt, black pants, manicles, etc.) starting with an "a" or "-" to put it ahead of the regular item on the inventory. They dress from top down so they will put on gauntlets or a helmet before wrist irons or hood unless you rename them.

I've killed Caelia Draconis by slipping a Damage Health item on her right before she takes her lunch at the inn. I followed her up to the room, and she was wearing it when I entered.

Heck, if you have an Essential follower suffer a thrashing inside a dungeon, many times you'll notice they're naked upon exiting the cave. Their armor was destroyed, and the game did an inventory check soon as you entered the next cell.

So reading up again taking the Damage route it seems that the Damage Fatigue effect is available for custom enchanting, although I have no idea what magnitudes are involved from Petty Soul Gems through Grand or Black ones.

The only listing I could find readily available was under Sigil Stones ranging from 15 points through 60 points with Transcendent being the most potent, naturally.

That would require holding off on those quests until at least level 17, but that really isn’t a big deal since I was already interested in doing the associated leveled quests at the highest levels possible anyway, which in some cases is level 30+ for the associated leveled quest rewards.

It seems that even the lowest value Damage Fatigue Sigil Stones would eventually attain the desired effect.

Have to wonder if an NPC with a high Athletics would put up more resistance since they supposedly regain Fatigue more efficiently.

The only really tricky part it seems would be to get them to equip said items without changing cells, say inside an Oblivion Gate, although I seem to remember that there are different areas and interior cells even there, which might suffice.

I’m thinking a Mage Hood might work best since many NPCs in the game don’t use headgear?