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I ran into Dark Fissure by happenstance. I put 3 empty grand soul gems into the altar and turned them into black soul gems, which I promptly filled with some bandit souls.
I enchanted some shoes with a feather enchantment.

My Questions:

1: Is the use of that altar eminently an act of necromancy or is it a convenience for everyone to use?
2: Would the mages guild permit usage of that altar or would they deem it an act of necromancy and ban it?
3: My character (Breton) Is a relative good guy (no theft, murder, frenzy etc) Would usage of black soulgems taint his "goodness"?

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. In normal circumstances yes.


White souls - ok, black souls - not ok.

Thank you. That leaves me with a quandary. Previous to this Breton I had a very evil Altmer mage. I deleted him because I lost a sense of purpose with him. (frenzying lots of people for randomness)
My Breton was intended to be good.. better than him. But now I'm not so sure. What would be the best cause of action:

1: Delete +restart
2: Sell/trash remaining black soul gems
3: Sell/trash enchanted shoes, buy new ones

1. Is illogical.
2. Wastes the soul matter of the bandits.
3. Yet again, wastes the soul matter.


It is a bit like a vegan being given meat in a meal by mistake - I would say it is better to respect the animals sacrifice and memory, and therefore to eat it, than it is to throw the meat away and waste the animals remains, but it is a personal choice. Swap meat dish for soul matter.

I em.. Reverted back to evil ways. Got 50k bounty but killed tons of guards. Got bored, deleted him. Heh this topic can be closed.
Guess I did my signature proud.

Bandit souls would burn in Hell for eternity, so by destroying/dissipating them via black soul gems, you are doing the bandits a favor.

If you are killing innocent people for their souls, as presumably the evil necromancrs are doing, you are a bad person.

The concept of hell doesn't exist anywhere in Tamriel or Oblivion - soul matter is recycled and the spirit is sent to Aetherius, in normal circumstances - daedric influence and black soul gem trappings are different, the former varies with the Prince, the latter to the Soul Cairn. (White souls are just recycled)

Granted alot of this dwells in a moral grey area. While you could deem black soul gems as an evil tool, it's the actions of the user that would define it. Obviously murder of the innocent and condemning to the Cairn is.. well.. just plain wrong However, most wouldn't object to it as a tool of punishment upon the truly wicked<_< those of whom have clearly earned such fate(and the Karma to boot). However I wouldn't go so far to say every bandit or enemy deserves the same... really it shouldn't be so hard to see those labeled "evil" over the those in the blobish mess we call a grey area>_> where innocence and misdeeds can constantly be debated over. And may I just add.. Oblivion, while chaotic, is not purely "evil". Two sides of the same coin... so just because they're a Daedric worshiper<_< doesn't mean they deserve a fate like the Cairn

So in my final verdict:
1) They were generally targeted for use within Necromancy, something many condemn. However it's more than the obvious... but to whether it's good or bad is purely upon it's motive and how it's used. From a game mechanic.. it's convenient
2) Likely considering how intolerant they are on Necromancy, I say they wouldn't just ban it's use.. but likely destroy the Altar if located.
3) Again, depends on how you use it. As a rightful hero, I would say deter from normal use. Not to mention you could get by just fine with normal souls still, in the Empire, I wouldn't say their illegal.. but murder is...

Just use the Black Soul Gems on Necros and give them a taste of their own evil. Then you can mercilessly hack bandits to pulp with the knowledge that you are such a goody two shoes.

Why would the stealing of npc souls be any more or less evil than summoning a xilivai (grand soul) and soul trapping it and killing it. The result is the same, the particular soulgem (Grand Soul Gem) is filled with a grand soul. Why would this be functionally different?

The thieves' guild gives you rules and punishments, the Dark Brotherhood give you rules and punishments, and the mages guild punishes you for murdering another member, so if it was illegal to futz with black soul gems, 'the game' would punish you for it. The MG quest line to Dark Fissure gives you a free black soul gem if you kill the mook at the alter, and you don't have an option to turn it over to the guild.

Good or bad depends on what you do with the soul gem. A bandit's soul is going to burn in Hell for an eternity, so you are doing him a favor by destroying it.

That's my take on it.

A soul that becomes trapped in a black soul gem is not destroyed, it is trapped in the for all eternity.

This applies to all black soul gems? If so are the necromancers in communication with the ideal masters?
Also. Would the destruction of a soul not be more evil/painful than putting it in some other world?

Yes, this would apply to all black soul gems. It may even apply to white souls trapped in black soul gems, as there's at least in the Soul Cairn during the events of Skyrim.

I don't know that all necromancers are communicating with the Ideal Masters. The Ideal Masters often strike deals with Necromancers, not always. Some, perhaps even many, Necromancers may have no idea about the relationship between the Ideal Masters, black soul gems and the Soul Cairn.

There doesn't seem to be any lore detailing such deals between necromancers and the Ideal Masters, so for now all we know is that such deals may involve a necromancer getting undead summoning spells in exchange for sending mortal souls to the Soul Cairn.

Perhaps these deals, at the time of the Oblivion Crisis, are "unspoken". A necromancer may only know that trapping [x] number of souls in black soul gems earns him or her [y] undead summoning spell, i.e. trap 1 soul, you get a skeleton, trap 4-5 souls, you get a zombie, so on and so forth.

One can assume that the necromancers found during the events of Oblivion haven't done "enough" to earn the spells to summon Bonemen, Mistmen, and Wrathmen, as those creatures do not appear in that game and the spells have been forgotten by this time. This may allude to those necromancers not having struck the "proper" deal.

You may find an interesting read on the subject.

I haven't read any compelling evidence to suggest that any soul is destroyed when it is trapped or when the soul gem is used. Asking if it's worse to destroy a soul or trap it to Oblivion forever may be a moot question.