User talk:TheRealLurlock/Interregnum

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Online Place Template[edit]

Hey! It's not showing up because I haven't added it yet. I was just suggesting it. Thus, it won't do anything yet :P Jeancey (talk) 00:28, 28 February 2014 (GMT)

Ah. I was confused because it does appear on Online:Khenarthi's Roost. I must be missing something. I've been out of the wiki game for a while, maybe getting rusty... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:10, 28 February 2014 (GMT)
Oh that.... I did do that.... I set it so that if the Type was set as Zone, an alliance parameter could be added, because the zones obviously don't have a zone of their own. hmm... I could rework that so any type can use it. Jeancey (talk) 18:50, 28 February 2014 (GMT)
Equally, if we do go for tinting the box as mentioned here, the alliance parameter will need to be entered on every page, but it probably only needs to be explicitly displayed in the box on the zone page. --Enodoc (talk) 20:12, 2 March 2014 (GMT)

Block?[edit]

Hey, Lurlock, since you're online, can you block this guy? He got a warning a while back, and has continued vandalizing. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 00:49, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

Done. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

Runestones[edit]

The two aren't unknown. They are for Lire and Jaedi, which are currently using the icons for Oko and Okoma. I've uploaded correct icons for those names. Jeancey (talk) 04:09, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

Okay. I've gone to a few different sources and nobody had them. We can rename them if needed. I suspect a lot of the icons I've uploaded are wrong, but it's all we can easily do until the next beta. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 04:14, 7 March 2014 (GMT)
Well, I translanted all the runes, and each syllable has its own symbol. It was fairly easy to do. Jeancey (talk) 04:15, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

Missing Recipes[edit]

I noticed there are two recipes (at least) that are missing from the recipes page, specifically Numb-All-Over and Snake Sherry. Jeancey (talk) 17:39, 9 March 2014 (GMT)

There's probably a lot missing. My sources (mainly other ES sites) aren't 100% reliable. Feel free to add any you find. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:14, 10 March 2014 (GMT)

icons[edit]

Hey. Several of the ingredient icons are the same. Is there a reason we can't just use a generalized name and one icon for those? Jeancey (talk) 06:14, 10 March 2014 (GMT)

Also, apparently the names of many of the crafting materials and created items have been changed in the most recent patch, as well as some of the icons. You might want to download that and use the newest icons before uploading any more large batches. Jeancey (talk) 21:30, 11 March 2014 (GMT)
I considered using common icons for those that are the same, but it was just too much to keep track of. I anticipate some of these are temporary anyhow, so we'll upload new ones once we know for sure. Can only use what we've got right now. (Also, not sure how to go about extracting the icons - I just copied the .zip file Daveh posted before, which is what I've been using. I know some things are going to be wrong, but it's such a big job I felt we should at least try to keep from falling behind - many of the competing sites seem to have an edge on us this time...) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:04, 11 March 2014 (GMT)

Colors[edit]

Would you mind if I do a quick color change test on the ESO Gear template? If you don't like the colors then just revert the changes. I tried a few things in photoshop and I have slightly juggled a few colors around, hope it helps. --Jimeee (talk) 18:39, 11 March 2014 (GMT)

Go ahead. It's simple enough to change it back if it doesn't work. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:41, 11 March 2014 (GMT)
Okay, you can change the colors if you want, but they should still have some basis in the actual colors used in the game. You've swapped the blue and green, and used red for the base items - that's just wrong. Also not sure about orange for legendary - they really need to be some sort of gold color. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:49, 11 March 2014 (GMT)
This page on the super-secret wiki contains the values and colors used in game, for reference. --Kiz(email - talk) 18:53, 11 March 2014 (GMT)
I wasn't sure if the original order was important, I asked on the Bows talk page if it was. That link Kiz posted helps as I didn't play the beta. It certainly makes sense to have it somewhat similar to the order in-game. As for gold - I tried several variants, but against the light background you are always going to have an issue with the contrast. Even text-shadow css looked bad. Like you said, darker will get you brown. --Jimeee (talk) 18:55, 11 March 2014 (GMT)
Oh - I guess I swapped green and blue? Either way - red is just wrong. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:56, 11 March 2014 (GMT)

Location of Item Icons[edit]

I recently gave some feedback to the placement of item icons on Online talk:Restoration Staves, but I figured I'd point it out to you because it looks like this same placement is used on other pages. I'd appreciate hearing your feedback on it. -Thunderforge (talk) 18:58, 11 March 2014 (GMT)

Icon template[edit]

I'm curious why you created your own icon template for ESO, when we have an icon template that would work perfectly fine as long as the correct types are added to it. Jeancey (talk) 21:05, 21 March 2014 (GMT)

I was using the same #switch statement in 3 different templates (my special overlay templates that add the nice ESO-style icon borders, and backgrounds as in the case of the Achievement icons). I just created a shortcut so that changes to the available shortcuts could all be done in one place and stay consistent. I was planning on making similar game-specific sub-templates for the other games, and the Icon template would then be a sort of master-template that chooses the appropriate sub-template based on the gamespace. This would also allow shortcut letters to mean different things in different games since there'd be no chance of collision. For example, there's no "Clothing" in ESO (it's grouped with Armor), so the letter 'c' could be used for something else, e.g. "Crafting" or something. Also, keeping the #switch statement per game to only what's needed in that game means less work for the server in rendering those pages where the template is used extensively, while having one master #switch that tries to encompass all the games could potentially cause performance drops on those pages. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 21:14, 21 March 2014 (GMT)

Halfhide Helmet Icon[edit]

Does the Halfhide Helmet use the same icon as the Hide Helmet? I thought it was a c/p error, but the icons for Halfhide Helmet's don't seem to exist. Same thing with the Iron Helmets. Jeancey (talk) 22:22, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

The lowest-level icons for headgear of all weights seem to be missing across the board. Hopefully this will be fixed in the full release. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 22:25, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

Help with Achievement Linking?[edit]

I noticed that you have been adding a bunch of achievements to ESO pages. Would it be helpful for me to create redirect links to them from Online:Achievements? Jeancey said in IRC that we aren't using Template:Achievement, so I presume that your method was the alternative that he was talking about. Cheers! -Thunderforge (talk) 23:42, 25 March 2014 (GMT)

I've been removing links when I copy them onto the location page, as I was assuming said redirects would just redirect to the location page itself. (At least for achievements related to specific locations. Other achievements would of course redirect to other appropriate pages.) I'm not 100% sure they're necessary - in fact I was thinking that all those red links on the Achievement pages would end up being just flat-out replaced with links to the relevant location pages once they exist. I don't really see the need to make 600+ redirects to the same page, which has pretty much no more information that isn't also available on the page itself. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:49, 25 March 2014 (GMT)
I figured that we would do what we did with Skyrim:Achievements where the links go to the "achievements" section of the page. For instance, Skyrim:Bleak Falls Barrow (achievement). Is this what you had in mind? There's a discussion on the achievements page right now if we'd like to change the status quo. -Thunderforge (talk) 23:52, 25 March 2014 (GMT)
It's partly a matter of scale. Skyrim had a little over 100 achievements, while Online has over 600, and that's just what we know about so far. It's likely that number will climb even higher, especially if the game is successful enough to spawn multiple expansions, like MMOs commonly do. (How many expansions did WoW get?) When you look at the existing zones and see how much of Tamriel is not covered, they obviously left themselves plenty of room to grow. I just think it's a bunch of work (even if a bot does it) and a bit of wasted space storing all those redundant redirects, all for not very much benefit. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:59, 25 March 2014 (GMT)
I think there should be more discussion on this since we did it differently in Skyrim, but I'd be happy with getting rid of them if that's where the consensus lies. -Thunderforge (talk) 00:02, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
Sure, go ahead and open a discussion on the CP I guess. I understand the desire for consistency between games, but ESO is already very different from the rest of the series, so we shouldn't feel obligated to do everything the same as with the previous games. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 00:06, 26 March 2014 (GMT)

Possible Alternative for Achievements Tables[edit]

I'm glad to see that you're making some improvements to the Achievements pages by subdividing achievements into sections and such. However, I'm not sure that I care for the way that the tables are nested. Right now, it looks like this:

Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
Exploration
Auridon
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.

My concern is that the column headers aren't connected with the rest of the table and things are still a bit difficult to navigate. Would it be better to split them apart into different subsections with tables? For instance:

Aldmeri Dominion[edit]

Exploration[edit]

Auridon[edit]
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.
Grahtwood[edit]
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.

Hunting[edit]

Auridon[edit]
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.

One added benefit of this method would be that it would allow the table of contents to link to each section header automatically, improving navigation on these pages and making it easier for gamers to find what they are looking for. The main downside is that things are more spaced out, but I personally think the benefits outweigh the downsides. -Thunderforge (talk) 22:27, 26 March 2014 (GMT)

I thought about that - it does cause a bit more section-depth, which I'm not crazy about (once you get into h4 headers, I think you're doing something wrong to be honest). We may end up further splitting that page by Alliance, which might be preferable, as each Alliance's section is quite long. (Cyrodiil and Coldharbour sections aren't too bad, but the big ones are quite long.) Right now, I'm just trying to get the data organized. If we want to split it up later, it'll be much easier if it's already grouped and sorted beforehand, so this will help either way. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:05, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
I would be in favor of further splitting the pages by quest type and alliance (e.g. Exploration Achievements-Aldmeri Dominion), which would reduce one level of headers. If it would be easier to split them up later, feel free though. Again, thanks for all the great work! -Thunderforge (talk) 23:08, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
Thinking of it, possibly something in between the two might work. Make "Exploration", "Discovery", "Hunting" and "Other" separate sections, but use colspan-headers on the longer tables for division. Those deeper headers wouldn't be much use anyhow, because there'd be multiple links for each zone, and you'd end up just linking to the first one all the time. Let me try that... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:09, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
Just a thought: if you want the extra TOC detail, there is no reason that the colspan headers can't also be section headers. --Swordmage (talk) 00:52, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
Swordmage, are you suggesting something like this?
Exploration — Auridon
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.
Exploration — Grahtwood
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.
An alternative would be an "Exploration" subheader" and table labels for just each zone. If that is what you're suggesting, I'd be happy with that and would think it would be a good compromise. -Thunderforge (talk) 00:57, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
More like this:
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
Exploration

Auridon[edit]

ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.
Where Auridon shows up in the TOC (this is not necessarily how I would actually organize this, but just an illustration of the mechanic I was suggesting). --Swordmage (talk) 01:14, 27 March 2014 (GMT)
Having the header link in the table is not a bad idea. However, I still have my original concern about the column headers not being adjacent to the column cells. So perhaps something like this would be better:

Exploration[edit]

Auridon[edit]
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.
Grahtwood[edit]
Points Name of Achievement Title Granted Description
ON-icon-achievement-Explore Dominion.png 10 Explore Bewan Explore and clear Bewan.
Obviously there would be more entries between the locations, but something like this connects the column headers to the columsn and repeats them whenever we create a new section would be good. From an aesthetic perspective, I'd rather put "Exploration" and "Auridon" on one line with some separator, but I'd be okay with this result. And TRL, sorry for clogging up your talk page with lots of tables :-) -Thunderforge (talk) 19:40, 28 March 2014 (GMT)

() To me that just seems bulky and redundant. Having one colspan header between the titles and the columns isn't THAT confusing really. I agree that two was pushing it. But it's really not that hard to figure out with just the one, I think. (And I'm pretty sure there's precedence on the site somewhere, though it might require more searching than I feel like doing right now.) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:36, 28 March 2014 (GMT)

Crafting Sites[edit]

Actually, the unknown crafting sites you have listed aren't crafting sites at all. Those are the sets that can be created at the crafting sites listed. Each of the sites has a specific set it can craft, and each set can be crafted at only one site per alliance. All the crafting sites are listed correctly, we just need to figure out which sets can be crafted there. Jeancey (talk) 17:22, 29 March 2014 (GMT)

Ah. It turns out the number of unknown sites was exactly equal to the number of set names not linked to a specific location, so I extrapolated, incorrectly it seems. I'm assuming based on what we know that it's 3 sites per zone, not sure about Cyrodiil or Coldharbour. And none of the starter-zones seem to have any. Anyhow, go ahead and correct things if you've got more complete info. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:28, 29 March 2014 (GMT)
From all I know, that is correct. 3 per zone, none in cyrodiil (haven't been to coldharbour yet aside from the tutorial, so don't know about that), and none of the starter zones have them. I don't know which sets apply to which sites except for like two, though. Jeancey (talk) 17:43, 29 March 2014 (GMT)
Yeah, some of this might have to wait until release to get the full info. One of them I even guessed on that page. (I assumed "Hist Bark" had to be in Shadowfen somewhere, but I don't actually know any of the Shadowfen locations.) Anyhow, we do what we can until new info comes along. As early as tomorrow for some people. For myself it'll probably be longer, though I expect other sites will have the info pretty quickly. (We are kind of behind the competition on a lot of this info for some reason.) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:09, 29 March 2014 (GMT)
We just need more time working on it. Also, many people can't add info to places because the places haven't been made yet. You are good at that sort of thing, think you can create stub pages for pretty much all the locations we have listed on the zone pages? Otherwise, random editors aren't gonna be able to add their info :) Jeancey (talk) 19:12, 29 March 2014 (GMT)
I can start, but it's a pretty big task. I've just finished all I can do on the Cyrodiil map, and I already finished the Dominion and Covenant zones as much as I can. I've only got The Rift, Shadowfen, and Reaper's March left to do. (I need a new source for Reaper's March, as the map on ESOHead is kind of out-dated for some reason.) After that I can get started on the stub pages. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:54, 29 March 2014 (GMT)
Honestly, the stubs might be more important because people can't create the pages themselves, but anyone can edit the map. Jeancey (talk) 21:01, 29 March 2014 (GMT)

Ayleids move[edit]

Can you move Ayleids to Ayleid? We seem to be in general agreement on the talk page that the move is appropriate, but there's a redirect at Ayleid, so an admin is needed. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 01:48, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

Done. Next time, though, it'd be easier if you posted a link to the page to be moved. Wasn't sure if you meant that one or maybe Ayleids in some other namespace. I figured it out though. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:24, 1 April 2014 (GMT)
You got it, sorry. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 03:34, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

IRC[edit]

Hey! Could you jump on IRC real quick? Jeancey (talk) 17:41, 2 April 2014 (GMT)

I'm just gonna reuse my old talk page topic. Want to jump on IRC again? :) Jeancey (talk) 18:43, 12 May 2014 (GMT)

Block Needed[edit]

Since you appear to be online but not on the RC or AN, this IP appears to be a spambot and has repeatedly created spam pages and needs a block. Thanks! •WoahBro►talk 20:43, 4 April 2014 (GMT)

Looks like one of the blockers already took care of it, but I extended it to a week, that should be good enough. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:46, 4 April 2014 (GMT)

Pages for all the subzones?[edit]

Hey there, I was just wondering, due to the limited info we have on subzones, whether separate pages for all 51 of them is necessary, or whether we can just add the (really short) paragraph, map and achievement to the main zone page. Since there's hardly any in-game definition of them by name, I don't see much of a benefit to them each having separate pages, as people won't be looking for them. --Enodoc (talk) 00:21, 12 April 2014 (GMT)

We might make some sort of an arrangement whereby the information could be transcluded onto the main zone page. There's undoubtedly more information on them than what I've been adding - there does seem to be some plot-related stuff that's mostly divided by subzone, and that would be good to add. There's quest lists that could be added, more complete location lists (including those locations that share part of their name with the subzone, e.g. "Jode's Light" in Jodewood), representative images - the subzones usually represent a bit of change in the climate or decor within a zone, levels - each subzone is generally relatively uniform in difficulty level whereas the full zones have a wider range, etc. Sure, it could all be put on the zone pages, but those are already quite long, and we're not even done adding all of the quests and other things that would likely be found there. I see these as similar to the "Test Maps" that we documented in earlier games - only they're more relevant since they actually ARE in the game, just not as clearly delineated as other areas. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:17, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
OK, sure, I hadn't realised we'd documented test maps much. Transclusion sounds like a good idea as well. I was already thinking of splitting the side-quest lists on the main zone pages into subzones anyway, but are we going to duplicate the quest lists into the subzone pages too? --Enodoc (talk) 09:10, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
Potentially - though some quests definitely do extend beyond Subzone borders, so it may be a judgment call. For now, I'll just make the pages, we'll see what more we can do with them later maybe. There are actually a number of actual test maps in ESO - however, in this case, I'm not sure we need to document them. In the single player games, you can still enter the test zones via console command. But that's not possible here. The Subzones, however, do have some impact on the actual gameplay, as well as historical significance, having been seen more explicitly during the beta, so they're more relevant. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:24, 12 April 2014 (GMT)
Turns out the names are also used in the Looking for Group tool as well. --Enodoc (talk) 17:17, 12 April 2014 (GMT)

Mundus Stones[edit]

Hey there, just wanted to say, if you could leave the mapname parameter in and add |skipmap=y, otherwise the maplinks in the ESO Alliances template won't work, as they #load the mapname from the page. Oh also, I don't think Neutral is accurate in this sense as it's one page for four separate locations. Blanking that parameter (ie |alliance= ) is probably the best way to go for these. Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 17:38, 13 April 2014 (GMT)

The map links have been working fine for me - not sure what the difference is. I did the last one your way, but I don't see the difference - except the icon isn't there in the upper-right, I guess that's because I left off the "Neutral" bit. What exactly does |skipmap=y do? — TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:45, 13 April 2014 (GMT)
Never mind - I got it. The Place Links is what you meant, I think. I'll fix 'em on a second pass when I add the icons for the ones I did earlier. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:48, 13 April 2014 (GMT)
(edit conflict) For me the maplinks in the locations section of the summary box weren't going to the stone, they were just going to the zone map because they were looking for a place called "none". The top-right icon does indeed disappear when alliance is blank; that's what I was going for. skipmap takes out the (view on map) link that otherwise appears when maplink is defined. --Enodoc (talk) 17:51, 13 April 2014 (GMT)
Post-EC: The Place Links if I remember rightly need their zone defined separately. Oh wait yes, I see what you mean. They do indeed also need the mapname defined. --Enodoc (talk) 17:51, 13 April 2014 (GMT)

Quest pages[edit]

None of those cats are supposed to be created.... They are the result of a bot being unable to determine the real zone of a quest. Jeancey (talk) 20:41, 18 May 2014 (GMT)

The True Barenziah[edit]

Hello.
It was recommended that I ask you for help. Could you please take a look at this discussion? Thanks. -- CompleCCity (talk) 15:57, 2 June 2014 (GMT)