User talk:SerCenKing/Archive-2010-12

This is an archive, please don't post messages here. Post them on my talk page instead.

An image

Hey, I have recently worked on upgrading The Knights of the Thorn lodge page here and think that it could benefit from an image of the basement. As you took the other images on the page, I was wondering if you could fix me up a shot of the basement. Thanks - Emoboy64 23:11, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I took a look when I did the other two pics, and there is honestly nothing particularly image-worthy in there; plus two images fit in nicely with the text ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Una Armina

Hey SerC - just a friendly reminder about checking out Una Armina, if not for the ONPCRP, then simply for your opinion on my "choices" in the dialogue section; also, I still think it would be great t0 finish off the section with a completed quest-tour of the Museum, but I'm not sure it is possible to extract from the CS. I pasted all your Una-related dialogue to her talk page in case we ever need it. Oh, and you will find all answers to your Gundlar questions here. Cheers! --Krusty 08:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll check it out asap - currently working on Wide-Eye but will do :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

A few funny details

I just saw Gundlar eat during Thadon's soliloquy - different package? Anyway, I made a few corrections to Wide-Eye's schedule and were a bit puzzled when I killed her - she carries an ordinary Elven Dagger in my Lvl 16 save - should it say "possibly enchanted" in her inventory section? Also, remember to click here. ;) --Krusty 20:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, you're right - it is "possibly" enchanted. I don't get what you mean with Gundlar: he is supposed to eat through the monologue. I've tweaked the wording to make it less confusing. Also, a present here. I wasn't sure how to work it into the page so I dumped it there. I also can't figure out the order from the CS :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah, Gundlar's schedule says "he will feast together with the Duke" - I misread that. I just thought it was funny that this is the only occasion in the entire game where he gets something to eat, since he is bugged at any other meal. Ah well. Thanks for the Una Armina dialogue - now I just need to find someone with a completed quest-save, so they can give me the correct order. :) --Krusty 21:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Dialogue Glitch

Hey SerC. I want you to test something, a problem that occurs with Carahil. Most of the times I tell her about the rogue mage and how she died, she says she'll give me my recomendation, but nothing happens. The topic remains gold and I have to ask about it again to get the quest update. Can you test it? It happens most, but not all of the times. PC, with all official and unofficial patches. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:29, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Nothing in the CS to explain this and never happened to me... I literally have no idea :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

A bit of help with Relmyna?

Hello again, Serc! I was wondering if you had the time to write an exact inventory/spells section for Relmyna Verenim? As you might have noticed, I'm going through an eternal Sandbox hell trying to catalogue all her dialogue and her weird behavior, and will end up with a record-breaking amount of (great) dialogue. Nevertheless, for layout-reasons, I could use the inventory/spells section as soon as you can. Let me know if you do not have the time, but until then - thanks in advance! --Krusty 23:50, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I've added the inventory section here as well as an incomplete spells section. I'm quite ill and simply don't have the physical will to decrypt her scripted spells :P --SerCenKing ^Talk 20:43, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

No worries at all - but thanks anyway! Since she is floating around in my Sandbox, there is really no rush and I can easily test the complex page design with the info you provided. Best wishes for a speedy recovery! Also, you may have noticed that a few things have changed a bit? ;) --Krusty 20:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, and I'm absolutely in favour... We might also want a "Checked=" param, but that might be pushing it a bit ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:49, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, at the moment, I'm on a spree reading through all the supposedly completed OPRP-pages, trying to make the layout consistent, add authors and re-add the tag to the pages that are far from complete - and I tend to agree; a "Checked=" param would be the best solution. Still, if we choose that solution the tag would be re-added to ALL Place-pages, unless of course, we keep the "Checked=" param hidden, so the tag disappears when walkthroughs are added? Nevertheless, a major news update for the CP is in the works, as we still have to figure out exactly how the checking procedure should be executed. Any suggestions from you are more than welcome - and you can always follow my progress and edit summaries here. Let me know if you disagree with any of my decisions - after all, you are my mentor! ;) --Krusty 22:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Hahaha sure! I think we can keep the "Checked=" param and the whole tag hidden - after all, only those who know about the project will be looking for it. --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, by the way - do you have a complete list of your additions to the OPRP? Reading through Page Histories for the walkthrough authors gets tedious after a while... --Krusty 22:57, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Info for SI ones can be found here and for Ayleid ruins and Necromancer dungeons here. Also, all of the Stirk places as well as Smuggler's Cave and a few others I can't recall atm. Hope this helps! --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:56, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

(←) Thanks a lot! Hope you are feeling better today. Btw, I have looked all over the Wiki, trying to find an explanation as to why nearly all Sewer pages (and corresponding places like The Old Way that is accessed from Sewers) lack an introductory image in the upper left corner. Do you know anything?

Yeah, that's always annoyed me as well. I suppose its because they don't have an "exterior" proper, although I absolutely agree to an image showing the entrance. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:11, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Definitely agreed; the images might be dreadful to take and a bore to look at, but the pages looks clumsy and uninteresting without them - we might wanna go for some interesting exterior shots, but "interesting" is a hard thing to come by in the sewer system. --Krusty 13:19, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Ow! Stop nudging me in IRC, Krusty! There's no conspiracy here, it's just a case of "What image should go there?" The image in the top left is usually - 99% - an image of the exterior of the area in question. With the sewers, most of them don't have any kind of exterior so the image has usually been left blank. I've had similar problems in Tamriel Rebuilt, which is why I've ended up with awful images like the one on Unknown Grotto.

The best solution is probably to take a representative internal image and use that in the "main" place, although even that's a tricky task given that the sewers are all pretty standard. rpeh •T•C•E• 02:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I recall talking to you about this for Stirk rpeh, and I'd say the Vassa image is pretty good. Of course, I doubt sewers will be equally interesting... The best deal is probably to get both an entrance shot and a representative shot and choose the best one, without any specific guidelines. After all, there aren't that many sewer pages. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:12, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd prefer a few less interesting shots than the emptiness currently on display. Also, I could really use a few images for my revamp of The Old Way as allI have is this. Besides the boring introductory image, an image of the final large room of The Lost Catacombs and, especially, an image describing Hall of Epochs, complete with statue, two Ayleid Guardians and all that. Pretty please and with sugar on top? :) --Krusty 12:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Hey Jules, I ain't your Mr. Wolf ;) Joking aside, I'm having problems with OB - getting crashes and the like so I don't know if I'll be able to get you a shot :( --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:54, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh... I thought you "solved problems" :D Nevermind, I still have a lot of work to do on the page (Hall of Epochs is rather complicated) and I can use that horrormovie-like image for inspiration until more images are available - the quest page could use them as well. I might slap on a NeedsImage-tag when I launch it. --Krusty 12:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Tbh, I've been so caught up by school I haven't been playing in a while and haven't really bothered working out what is wrong, although I guess it's one of my mesh-improving mods. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:03, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Problem at Lost Histories

I just noticed that here, the blood price stages are the same ones with those of Ahdarji's Heirloom. Can you check the CS to find the right ones? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Errr, what do you mean "right ones"? 60, 61 and 65 are the correct stages... --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:49, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Ahhh I just got what you meant! It appears to be an dev error, the stage really is the same as the one for Adharji's Heirloom. Just stick a note on the page. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 21:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) When you kill one of those NPCs it "becomes" a different quest. Notice the TG06Atonement and TG06BloodPrice --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 22:03, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Emmm, yeah, but that's not the point. The point is that Stage 61 of TG06BloodPrice is the same as Stage 61 of TG04BloodPrice, which is obviously a mistake. --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Wtf? You typed 61 but it shows 60. I'm confused now. What happened? Edit: And now it doesn't. Weird.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 22:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

_{(yet another)}(edit conflict) Yes I got it few secs ago, the stage is not the same but its wrong. I believe it is an in-game bug since there are many of these wrong texts in thieves guild quests but I don't know for sure because I never went through that stage. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 22:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Albino: it's because I changed it literally 2 secs later because I realized it was wrong.

Wizy: yeah - that's what I figured out before you posted. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:46, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

OPRP thoughts?

Hey SerC! As you have seen, I’m slowly moving through the new and very useful Category listing supposedly “completed” OPRP pages; simply to add the authors, make a consistent layout and correct obvious mistakes – and of course, to re-add the tag to pages I think is “incomplete” based on the things that you, as my mentor, taught me. It will take a while, but I hope you agree with my decisions; otherwise, just let me know. As of now, the new and better tag includes a “writtenby” param, and a hidden “checkedby” param as well. Obviously, the checkedby param needs to be visible as well, even if the tag rightfully disappears from the page when the walkthroughs have been added. When a page have been checked by another editor than the author, the page lands in this Category, and, in the style of the OBNPCRP, can be considered “complete” unless someone objects. So far so good, BUT:

What exactly is required when “checking” a page? When we add the walkthroughs, they are always written from the game (I know you double-check certain things in the CS), and as such, is checked in-game. It is obvious that the project will NEVER be finished if other users will have to run through the cave and follow the walkthroughs, so my suggestion is that a mere “read-through” is enough; by this I mean that an editor reads the walkthroughs and compares them to the maps, checking that text and map follows each other and corrects confusion and possible mistakes, then marks the page as Checked. This method can cause a few problems, but that is why we have the Final Preview Cat. I wanted to hear your opinion, as you probably used some kind of method when you checked the pages for Fort Facian, Crayfish Cave and Vanua (in theory, you could mark all three as Checked). Any suggestions? Additions? Opinions on this new take on the OPRP? All the best from DK. --Krusty 08:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I like all the new changes - I'm hoping it's going to revitalise the project a bit. I'm also absolutely in favour of doing a simple checking process: literally just a read through, checking with the map. If there some bits which are written in such a fashion that it is unclear, the checker can either post on the writer's talk page or check for himself in-game. To answer your question on my checking, I did exactly what I've said above, just going through using the map as guidance. I'll mark those walkthroughs as checked :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant - and it looks like everything works like a charm and the checked pages land in the Final Review Cat as expected. :) I'm not really doing any checking at this stage, as it seems more important to get the project up to date and discover incomplete pages. Once I'm done, I'll write something for the CP and advertise a bit for the project - next up, I'll try and write a few additional guidelines, simply to describe what is expected from the walkthroughs, how to fill out the new tag and so on. After reading through the completed pages from A to F, I realize that we are all different writers, with different preferences; Some writers like to describe how to defeat enemies easily, others prefer walkthroughs the "old-fashion-way" and so on, and I don't think that is a problem. As long as the text is informative and helpful - and the text and the map follows each other to the letter without too much rambling - a few extra tips here and there only adds a bit of spice. In short, as long as we have the final review, we can do no wrong. In my honest opinion, we should aim to work the project in a "less strict" manner, so more contributors will be attracted to it, and having three Categories will definitely help with that; at least I hope so. Final question is: What to do about incomplete maps? I have added a cleanup-tag to a few, but I'm not sure that is the way to go - also, when a map shows something that is not there, who should I confront? --Krusty 22:38, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Just to let you know, Emoboy64 have joined the project as a checker for written walkthroughs. :) --Krusty 23:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, my huge read-through of all finished pages are done, and 123 pages survived, which basically means we have in the neighborhood of 180 pages left to go - a few of them already contains walkthroughs, just not consistent/informative ones. Once again, look in my sandbox for a general view of the pages that had the OPRP re-added. I noticed that you are warming up to take on the complicated disambig Sewer pages, so I will not disturb you - consider this a news update! All the best and buon natale! :D --Krusty 09:17, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Good stuff, I'm stranded in London until Tuesday morning so I'll have a bit more time on my hands than expected! :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Golden Saints Finished

Check out this message, I'd like your opinion. ~ Dwarfmp 03:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Oops :(

Sorry about that. I somehow thought hat rpeh had suggested doing this on the golden saint page and you'd said to try it out on OB:Vampires. Looking back through, I don't know why I thought that but...--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 15:18, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

No harm done. I'm not against the idea in general but it kind of messes up the text when the images go to the left. Also, I still need to add some images, so at the very least we can do that once the page is fully done. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Xedilian

Hey SerC! As promised, I took a good long look at the page for Xedilian while I was there checking the adventurers; the walkthrough is spot-on with two minor exceptions - I could correct them myself, but I hope you can double-check my observations in the CS, just to make sure:

• In the first zone, the two Hunger Statues (K) will not shoot at you during your first run through the zone; they are only active when they shoot fire at the two adventurers later in the quest, depending on your choice.
• It should probably be mentioned that reaching the boss Urn at B in the second zone requires high Acrobatics, as it is located on a ledge - I couldn't reach it, or even see it, no matter how hard I tried.

While the latter correction might be less necessary than the former, I think the info should be added - I will then mark it as checked for the OPRP. --Krusty 14:48, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup for the first one; as for the second one, my year-old notes tell me I somehow jumped up there, possibly using the brazier in the middle of the room, assuming it's there before SE03. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

The brazier is there - probably just my limited Acrobatics that held me back - had to dig up an old save for this test. :) --Krusty 14:57, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Cool, I've done the changes :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:11, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Lewin Tilwald

Hey SerC! I'm in Xedilian and have just looked at Lewin and the other adventurers. It seems like he randomly chooses between five sentences when he arrives in the chamber - I heard all of them without even pushing any of the buttons. The other corrections are tested as well - I'm too tired to check if he is saying something when he is imprisoned later on, but it will get done. I added another bit of dialogue I heard, and will test his additional "attack lines" (judging from my dialogue sheet there's about seven of them not yet on the page):

I'll cut you limb by limb!

If it's steel you want, it's steel you'll get!

Agh! No! I can't take much more of this!

No! Please!

I can't die here... not here!

They're everywhere! Get them! Get them!

We're going to die!

This is impossible!

Now, if you could try and take an extra look in the CS, just to check WHAT button must be pushed for him to say the above lines ("No! Please!" is not worth mentioning, though), it would be of great help. As always in the Isles, things are complicated - and this is only the first and easiest of the three adventurers. --Krusty 23:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, this is rather complicated; I'm already unsure about the "five sentences" theory mentioned earlier, but will test it in-depth with all three adventurers in the very near future. I have just checked out how they behave after the quest is finished and they are locked up in the "reception room" of Xedilian - and none of them says anything. This basically calls for some kind "consistent" style when writing the pages, e.g. the five sentences, the number of attack lines, death lines, insanity lines ect ect. Grommok will get the biggest page, but that is only natural. Also, I have added Redirects to all three adventurers as their names appear differently in the quest updates, and there is really no way to find out their full names from the game. I have a few corrections and questions about Xedilian as well, but we'll get to that. --Krusty 00:03, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Right, so I kinda messed up xD This is how it should proceed:

Enter room: "This can't be right... I got a bad feeling about this place. || We should go back, I'm not sure we should be here. || Can we just leave? I don't like the looks of this place. || That thing may be small but it looks mean. Let's get out of here."

Press Mania button: "THIS is one of the "horrid guardians" of which the stories spoke? || By the gods! When will it stop? It could devour us whole! || Agggh! || ...ma-makes no sense...should be d-dead...what...who... || ...huge t-tree... going...going... to k-kill us all... || Nowhere to run.... mad t-tree... must escape... || Going to g-get us... kill us all..."

Press Dementia button: "They're everywhere! Get them! Get them! || We're going to die! || This is impossible!" (Attack)
"Agh! No! I can't take much more of this! || No! Please! || I can't die here... not here!" (When he gets hit)
"I'll cut you limb by limb! || If it's steel you want, it's steel you'll get!" (Power Attacks)

The "||" means it's a different bit, but he should go from one to the other. Alas, I'm still having a hard time understanding if "THIS is..." goes with Mania or Dementia - you might want to test that. In general, the script is so convulted and full of variables I think a second opinion (a.k.a rpeh :P) is needed. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Late reply, and without any results so far - only one final question before I venture into Xedilian once again; As far as I can tell, there are five "stages" for each room;

• Entering room
• Push bottons become "active".
• Mania Button
• Dementia Button
• Insanity (if adventurer is not dead)

Now, it is just to make sure - but I'm certain that I heard the line "THIS is one of the "horrid guardians" of which the stories spoke?" before pressing any of the buttons, so I was wondering if there is another condition when the push buttons are activated and becomes available? --Krusty 13:29, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I recall the buttons becoming active once they've reached their destination at the Gnarl (so when they stop walking), I guess I can be wrong though. The dialogue they say before you push a button is just to fill up the silence, not to activate the buttons, I believe. The fact you heard the line "THIS is one of the ..." is because it's the first line he says during that silence, I think, so he'll say it even when pushing the button right as it turns active ~ Dwarfmp 11:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Pothole Caverns

Hey SerC! Pothole Caverns proved to be a lot harder to check than I expected; nevertheless, I ended up tweaking the walkthrough an awful lot, but it is still not perfect. Taking the left path first is obviously the way to go (no backtracking at all), so that was the reason. Can you read through it and delete the redundant stuff? By the way, page is checked! :) --Krusty 17:43, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Right! It took me ages to understand why you'd changed the whole walkthrough because both said the same thing :P I'll give it a tweak and thanks for checking. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:08, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Haha, it basically started with me thinking; there are two paths leading to that big chamber, so let's put on some bullets so both walkthroughs can end up in that chamber. For the most "convinient" path, I put the left path on top - so basically it appears a lot worse than it actually is, although I'll admit being surprised when I clicked the "Diff" button after saving. :) --Krusty 18:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ayleid Ruins Checking

During the holidays, I plan on going through as many of the written Ayleid ruins as I can - after our experiences with Pothole Caverns, I decided to make a separate thread with my notes, explaining why I didn't mark the walkthroughs as checked. I could tweak them myself, but I know that you will just re-tweak my tweaks - so here we go:

Anutwyll

In zone one, instead of using lockpicks trying to get door G to open, simply jump down from the balcony which will land you in what is currently the "final room" according to the walkthrough - it should be tweaked, as doing it the "other way round" is a much more effective way of exploring the zone; no backtracking, no lockpicking (door G is opened by a push block from the other side) - and natural access to the next zone. Otherwise, no problems. --Krusty 13:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Arpenia

In the second section of the walkthrough it says: "...you will arrive at a room with an intersection. Take the north-west exit and then head right, following the corridor to a minor loot chest." The north-west exit is actually the backtrack route (you can jump down from the balcony to the second room), so naturally, this path should be mentioned at the very end.

Moranda

Just a link to my tweak --Krusty 20:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC)