User talk:Rpeh/Arc 201102

This is an archive of past User talk:Rpeh discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Compromise?

I know I suggested a place for Bureaucracy. But, you have so much more potential than an ordinary patroller, and you could help the site more, with more benefits, and new and better oppurtunities to improve UESPWiki. So, by the very least. Administrator? :D Shianni 17:42, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

If enough people want me to do it, then I'll stand for election. I don't see that happening any time soon, however. rpeh •T•C•E• 17:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I want you to know that I'll support you if you decide to something like this. You are UESP's best. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 17:57, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

So...if I get everyone to say yes, you'll accept the nomination? Great. I'll get started. :D Shianni 18:25, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cephorus who?

Hey rpeh, I have a question about the Cephorus that appears in The Wolf Queen. It seems to be Cephorus I (as all the links for him point to the first Cephorus), but then that would be contradictory to his description, since Cephorus I did marry (Queen Bianki). I assume that his Lore:People description is incorrect about the marriage, but I wanted to make sure. -- Jplatinum16 23:23, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes, the wonderful contradictions of Septim Lore! See this note on the Septim Dynasty page for the answer to that little problem. The Lore:People pages need a lot of work to clean them up. For a start, we can add Cephorus' birthdate of 3E127. rpeh •T•C•E• 23:27, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, so when mentioning Cephorus I in other lore pages, would it be best not to mention Bianki? The lore page I have in mind (as in, the page I'm researching info on), Gilane, doesn't need her inclusion per say, but it would help the small page. -- Jplatinum16 00:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

My personal feeling is that The Madness of Pelagius is wrong. It dates back to Daggerfall, and has appeared without alteration in each game since. There's definitely one case where DF info was corrected in later games (Brief History of the Empire says Pelagius was Tiber Septim's "eldest living son", but Brief History of the Empire fro MW and OB says Pelagius was Tiber's grandson). I take this to mean that a few tweaks were made in the Lore to fix problems (one of Tiber's other children would have inherited rather than Pelagius, and definitely ahead of Kintyra), and to give the writers escape hatches (in OB we are led to believe that the entire Septim line has been killed, but the existence of other descendants from Cephorus (or others) would mean this might not be the case - and now we have a dragonborn in Skyrim).

There was a discussion ages ago that said Lore pages should try to reflect what a typical well-read NPC would know about the situation, so no "Loredas is Saturday" stuff. Later there was the long, involved and utterly hideous s***storm about Lore sources that's archived here. You don't have to read that though - just see the final resolution here. I think the key point in that for this discussion is "Stick to the facts, not interpretation. If in doubt, list all views.". I imagine you're thinking about a couple of sentences on the succession to Gilane's throne after Cephorus succeeded to the Imperial throne? I think it's fair to say something like "some sources say (marriage, kids, possible succession through them) and others say (no kids, end of line)". My phrasing might need a little work ;)

It's good to see somebody else interested in Lore here. It's frustrating, but immensely rewarding! rpeh •T•C•E• 00:28, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I guess I have to watch out more for these unfortunate contradictions, but a historian's got to do what a historian's got to do. Thanks for all the help rpeh! -- Jplatinum16 00:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

You'll note that some contradictions get retconned in later releases. In the light of Skyrim's hero being called the Dragonborn, for instance, it's not such a big deal that Mannimarco was able to wear the Amulet of Kings in Oblivion.

To summarise my hideously long previous post: if there's a source for it, mention it. And don't insert your own opinions. The huge Lore debate largely came about because a couple of TIL people wanted to turn our Lore section into a copy of theirs - all speculation included. (Yes, that oversimplifies it, but if you ever do have a couple of hours to read through that whole debate page you'll see what I mean). In the end, as long as UESP sticks to clear sources, we can never be accused of screwing up - only of being misled. rpeh •T•C•E• 00:54, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Stick to sources, stay away from opinions, and no speculation, got it ;) -- Jplatinum16 01:23, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for ranting a bit... I re-read part of that big Lore debate and remembered just how pissed off I was at the time. I'll calm down now. rpeh •T•C•E• 01:29, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe that you meant to say Mankar Camoran ;) --Michaeldsuarez ^{(Talk) (Deeds)} 02:38, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Err... yes. Whoops! rpeh •T•C•E• 08:37, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

RoBoT

When RoBoT was adding to the cleanup tag to the NPC images it broke most, if not all, of the == Summary == headings. Nothing major just letting you know. mxk101^Talk 23:10, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I know - I made a silly mistake. I noticed but decided not to fix it because it's not a huge problem. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:36, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Template

Hey rpeh, i tried fixing this template so that the hidden categorys of for example; House needs checking from appearing on the page it is applied on. I noticed this when going down this page that it was linked there, as it bears no relevance to the project, i thought i would attempt at fixing it, and failed. As your the first person i think of when i think of templates, i thought i would pass this your way. Could you fix the template so it no longer links to the oblivion pages? Thanks - Emoboy64 15:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I fixed a few different issues with the template, but if I've understood the problem you're describing, I believe it's fixed now. Also, MWNPCRP pages will now appear correctly in Morrowind categories (at least if they're not on User/Template pages) instead of Oblivion. My dog's whining at me cuz he knows it's time to take him out, so I haven't created the actual MW categories yet. If I get time after I take him out, I'll create those categories unless somebody beats me to it. – Robin Hood↝talk 20:42, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there is much of a need for them pages, given the user is no longer active, and i think the project was just a proposed thing by said user. Hmm, its up to you if you make them, but thanks for fixing the template! - Emoboy64 20:46, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I hadn't realized that it wasn't an active project. Guess it shows how little I've been around lately. If that's the case, we may want to scrap the template altogether, or at least remove the usage from Kalrot's page, but keep the template in case it becomes an active project later on. – Robin Hood↝talk 21:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, looking through the CP history, it was proposed but never took off, so I'm up for removing it. Thanks again- Emoboy64 21:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Looks like RH fixed the problem, but yeah - it was a non-starter. rpeh •T•C•E• 03:37, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk Pages

You seem to do a lot of Projects and I wanted to give a thought for another. The Talk Pages for some articles are a real mess. I think it could be beneficial to do a full clean up of them. For posts that are solved or whatever, they could be simply archived, but I'm not sure about the off topic stuff. Normally it would be reverted, but of course that wouldn't work. Another issue is the Talk Page guidelines themselves. I was thinking perhaps having a Template Message-box at the top of talk pages that gives a clear description of the guidelines. What do you think of this? --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 16:18, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd rather not invest so much time in cleaning up talk pages. Usually, important conversations are archived separately - either on the CP or on individual talk page archives. Most of the rest tends to be of the "lol i want to kno what is the best sord kthxbai" and isn't important.

For a while, when I archived a talk page I would go through the page history and meticulously put posts in the right order, add unsigned tags and fix indentation before archiving. It would always take a long time because so many people don't post properly. The idea of doing it for all our talk pages fills me with horror.

I've got into the habit of doing basic format fixes when I edit a talk page; add a heading if someone created a new page without one; fix indentation; add unsigned tags and so on. I think that's all we really need to do. More than that and it'll distract from the actual content.

Putting a message box at the top is an option, but unfortunately most people don't read that kind of thing. If MediaWiki get LiquidThreads into a fully-usable state, then that might be the way to go. For the moment we just have to put up with it as it is. rpeh •T•C•E• 20:42, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Searching

Feel free to move this to another page if it is better fit there, I just didnt know where to post this. Note that the following is going off the assumption that you cant currently do these things when searching. If they CAN be done, just tell me. I think it would be helpful to be able to search for users with the search bar. It is likely that you can, I just dont know how. I also think it would be nice if you could search for things like special pages and templates without having to directly type it in like "Special:Activeusers" (note that that one might not even be right). It is annoying having to know exactly what you are looking for to find something. Like looking up user boxes, I only get lucky and find the talk page, which eventually leads me to the main page. I just think it would be nice if the search didnt specifically look in the namespaces of the games. It could get cluttered if every different namespace was shown in a search.

Maybe make searches something like: If there are no results for what you typed in, it resets the search parameter to the entire website. I feel that this would make it much easier to search for things on the site. Obviously this would be an undertaking, just thought it should be suggested.

Again, sorry if there is something similar to everything I just mentioned already in place, I just couldnt find it. And you have reached the end of my message, thanks for your time!--Catmaniac66 02:53, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll field this one, you can in fact search for users with the search bar. Just type in a name, like Catmaniac66 in the search bar. When you get no results back you can do a advanced search where you can search for a number of possible types of pages, like user, image and template. After selecting user and searching your name again I got results for your userpage and your talk page back. Hope that helped. --AKB ^Talk 03:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

That's basically right. Your problem could be that the list of namespaces that you're searching by default doesn't include the Template and User spaces. If you go to your preferences and view the Search tab, you can include those two by default.

Having said that, there are often better ways of doing what you're trying to do. For Users, I usually use the Special:ListUsers page because people don't always use the spelling you'd expect. And I see we have a user called "Rpєh"... hmm. rpeh •T•C•E• 03:54, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, at least my ignorance led to an impersonation discovery, right? Thanks for the advice everyone!--Catmaniac66 14:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

DS Bestiary

Hey rpeh! After a short wiki-break, I’m back with new energy. So I have a question for you – as you can see here, I’m almodt ready to make the Bestiary link blue. Still, I wanted to ask if you had any layout ideas? My collection of monster images are here. My biggest problem is the lack of information about any of these, but since the images looks pretty good, I figured I’d make a page anyway. So; any suggestions on layout? Should the tables float next to each other? Should it all be collcted in one big box? Suggestions are more than welcome! Cheers! --Krusty 09:37, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Good to see you around - I was beginning to get worried!

I've always had a soft spot for the Morrowind / TR3 creatures pages, but there's no text to be added to the DS pages and the images are much smaller and there aren't any stats either. Maybe several tables, one for each "class" of creature? Like Snow Warrior/Dawn Raider/Ice Scout etc in one, Trollkin/Rock Trollkin/Jagged Trollkin etc in another? Beyond that, I don't have much to suggest I'm afraid. rpeh •T•C•E• 14:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I haz cookiez!

(cookie moved to jar)

Telvanni Stronghold

• You don't have to do that quest if you look. The quest where you get the glove is down the line of Aryon's quests. If you look you will see what I mean. — Unsigned comment by JackTurbo95 (talk • contribs) on 19 February 2011

Are you sure? In any case, the glove isn't a great choice. There are other ways of summoning the daedra you need, and the glove summons two types that you don't want. rpeh •T•C•E• 16:44, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Incidentally if you disagree, try starting a discussion on the article's talk page. That way we can get more input from other users. rpeh •T•C•E• 17:07, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

• Yes but I am just putting it out there for people who want to use it. Also you do have to wait until Master Wizard , I think , to finish it or something , so I thought it would be an easier way to do it. I was just trying to help people with it.

Not every tip is a good one. To (badly) paraphrase Frederick the Great: if we include everything, we include nothing. Only the very best tips should be included, and we're already doing that. rpeh •T•C•E• 03:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Me again!

Hey rpeh! I am doing pages for Lucien and Mathieu and I was wondering if it was possible to "produce" a big version of (without any surroundings of course). I have looked everywhere and couldn't find anything. I also think it could be used on several other pages. Hope you can find the time and thanks! :) --Krusty 17:59, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Here you are - straight from the game files. I hope that's what you wanted. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:11, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

That is spot-on and perfect! Thanks a lot! A very nice decoration for the Lucien Lachance page I'm working on - and maybe even the DB and Black Hand pages as well? :) --Krusty 21:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Easter Egg.

Hey man I think I have found an Easter Egg. The plant Morning Glory could come from the Oasis album "What's The Story Morning Glory" couldn't it? Or would you think it's a coincidence ? — Unsigned comment by JackTurbo95 (talk • contribs) at 19:09 on 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It's a real plant. I'd say it's not an easter egg.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 18:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I found that out already man. — Unsigned comment by JackTurbo95 (talk • contribs) at 19:09 on 21 February 2011 (UTC)

TAO beat me to it. In case you're interested, an earlier lyrical reference is in Yes' song Yours Is No Disgrace from their 1971 album The Yes Album. rpeh •T•C•E• 23:39, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Dark Brotherhood quest.

I have noticed something. During the Dark Brotherhood quest The Lonely Wanderer the notes say about walking near the waterfront pirates will attack you , butt don't you kill the pirates with the first contract ? — Unsigned comment by JackTurbo95 (talk • contribs) at 19:24 on 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll field this one, you don't have to kill any of the pirates besides the captain. The pirates outside the boat will remain on guard of the ship unless you kill them beforehand. --AKB ^Talk 19:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

But when you exit you will be attacked by them will you not and the guards that are in the vicinty will attack them which will results in their deaths ? — Unsigned comment by JackTurbo95 (talk • contribs)

You can exit through the balcony from the back of the ship or with sufficient sneak and chameleon abilities you could go through the front. Also please sign your posts, I don't believe you have done this once. Just put four tildes ~~~~ (these things) after your post. --AKB ^Talk 19:36, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand about the signing thing but ... yeah I aint got that on here. I am from Spain so I got the Ñ. That is what the symbol is used for over here. — Unsigned comment by JackTurbo95 (talk • contribs)

Just click the 2nd-to-last button at the top of the edit box you are typing into. That will put the ~~~~ in there for you. --Brf 19:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Vale , thanks. JackTurbo95 19:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Mystic Emporium Faction

In Oblivion:Calindil‎ and Oblivion:Aurelinwae‎ something in the ONPCRP template causes that a red link appears at the bottom of the page, in categories. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 00:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually it's not the ONPCRP template, it's the changes that were just made to their factions. Now fixed - thanks for reminding me. rpeh •T•C•E• 00:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Roxy

Hey, Robby. I made a comment on how Roxy Aric is the only one out of 3 doing nothing for her picture, Alonzo & Black Brugo are the only one's doing anything interesting. So, being the colorful person I am, I propose a new picture for her. What do 'ya say? Shianni 03:07, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Action shots are always better, and if you want to get a better picture, that'd be great. I'd rather not mark all the "doing nothing" shots for cleanup, though. We've finally got all the images up to standard, and enforcing another round of cleanup would be overkill. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:02, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not asking for a project about it, or a huge announcement. Just...Roxy. I've noticed the changes to many pages involving NPC's that are aggressive, and or practicing on a dummy. Perfect example: Bralsa Andaren. Shianni 03:15, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well... go for it. As I said, action shots are always better. Feel free to add one. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:31, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Carwen

Hey rpeh! I think I've nailed Carwen (surprisingly complex), but there's one cue I can't figure out, namely her 11pm-midnight cue on Loredas - against my principles, I added a huh-tag, hoping that you would be able to lend me a hand from the CS and remove the tag. Hope you can find the time for some good old ONPCRP investigation! --Krusty 11:37, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Ew! What a horrible schedule!

Generally, she doesn't have anything specific on Saturday at that time. There's the Temple from 2pm to 6pm then as far as I can see she heads back to Methredhel's house until it's time to sleep at 6am.

There's an exception after The Ultimate Heist hits stage 140+. On Sat & Sun she heads to Dareloth's Basement at 6pm and wanders around there for 8 hours.

Another exception is that while May The Best Thief Win is at stage 20+ and < stage 30, she drops everything and hangs out near the statue of Tiber Septim in the Arboretum.

Not an easy one to nail down! rpeh •T•C•E• 11:51, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Ack! I had a feeling there was something rotten. Seems like I have to pull out all my old TG saves and do some more testing, starting with Dareloth's basement. That 11pm saturday thing is odd, though - she leaves the shack, makes it halfway through the District towards the city, then turns around again when the clock strikes midnight. I'll do some testing, but if I'm not sure I'm able to solve that one. --Krusty 11:59, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

All done. You were right; if Meth beats you to the diary, Carwen will spend all of her time in the Arboretum. Same with Dareloth's House. The mysterious 11pm Loredas cue was a Market District one (I waited in each cell, one at a time) and I have absolutely no idea why she should go there, but she did. Finally: Good luck with the CS check - you'll need it! :D --Krusty 14:01, 25 February 2011 (UTC)