User talk:Alphabetface/ArchiveB

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search


How to catagorize?[edit]

So I'm working my way through dungeons, filling out info as I go, and I'm currently in Benkongerike and it is marked on the map as a cave, and the first zone in it is a cave, but that cave leads to a second zone that is a Nordic Ruin. Should I put the type for Benkongerike as cave or nordic ruin do you think? Just looking for an outside opinion since I'm at a loss. :) Thanks in advance! Jeancey (talk) 06:15, 7 December 2012 (GMT)

If you're not sure, don't leave one at all. That information will be more easily verifiable with game data (using keywords, etc. in game files) and it's not worth the hassle of posting inaccurate information even if it's a good guess. Also, for many parameters, you're only supposed to enter them if it's not a "no" or "none" entry, so don't enter those either. Also, keep up the good work, you've been making lots of good edits lately! — ABCface 06:17, 7 December 2012 (GMT)
Ok, I'll leave it blank for now. And thanks for the advice! Jeancey (talk) 06:19, 7 December 2012 (GMT)

Skyrim:Sorex Vinius[edit]

(partial undo - checked and the USKP only addresses the first bug)

Do you have a save file that demonstrates the problem? Arthmoor indicates USKP fixed this as of 1.2.1 months ago!
--DayDreamer (talk) 11:02, 8 December 2012 (GMT)

I was basing that off of this list, which is what the USKP page on the wiki links to. In any case, the note should not be removed from the main description of the article, as not all users will have the USKP. If it's added to the Bugs section, it should be an entirely separate note. — ABCface 14:15, 8 December 2012 (GMT)
So, checking "the USKP" didn't actually check the USKP with the CK, you only checked USKP Version History. Great. Especially as the Version History clearly says:

... corrected a large number of “backup” aliases and NPCs, from adding them to the appropriate services faction, to giving them AI packages to man the store like their predecessors, to assigning backup aliases in some cases.
Sorex Vinius will now offer his delivery quest even if the player had already agreed to find news of Angeline Morrard’s daughter. The dialogue to offer it was checking the wrong quest.

Agree that it should be a separate note -- and in fact WAS a separate note. Next time, please test the actual game before editing, as the previous editors must have done.
--DayDreamer (talk) 00:52, 9 December 2012 (GMT)
Alphabetface lacks Skyrim for PC and thus can't check the changes USKP makes in her own game. As it is, a note should go on the page for the USKP fix, I think, but it's not necessarily a bug that Sorex isn't set up to be a merchant, so putting it up there in the first paragraph that he is not a merchant for those who don't use USKP (such as console users) is useful. Vely►t►e 01:23, 9 December 2012 (GMT)
(Heavy sigh.) Yes, it's necessarily a bug. Hint: look at the factions. Currently, the main part says: "He expects to take over the inn from his father." The Bugs section says "If anything happens to his father, Sorex will only rent out the inn's rooms; he does not offer any merchant services." So, handled well in each part, and pertinent to all platforms. Meanwhile, without actually verifying in-game that there was a problem, it was pretty annoying to flag it as not fixed! Especially as another editor had properly handled it (presumably after testing). Wasted a bunch of Arthmoor and my time trying to discern how the patch failed.
--DayDreamer (talk) 01:37, 9 December 2012 (GMT)
I would just like to mention that they way you phrased your original statement, and some of your follow-ups was incredibly rude. Just putting that out there. Jeancey (talk) 01:47, 9 December 2012 (GMT)
Welcome, Jeancey. I'm disheartened that you thought "Do you have ..." (original statement) was rude. Also "please test" (the follow-up), with considerable detailed explanation.
--DayDreamer (talk) 01:55, 11 December 2012 (GMT)

() The note I moved back didn't even say it was fixed by the USKP. The first bug note (not the one this message is about) did note this using the |USKP|1.2 parameter, but the second bug note (the one we're talking about here) had no vn=1 or confirmed=1 or any sort of patch fix noted. I never flagged it as not fixed- I simply moved it back to where it already was in the first place. In any case, I'm glad it's all sorted out now, and now actually mentions the USKP as a fix rather than having it marked as a bug with no parameter to indicate its status. — ABCface 04:06, 9 December 2012 (GMT)

Sadly, I misunderstood your edit comment "checked and the USKP only addresses the first bug" as meaning you'd checked and the fix was not working. Thanks.
--DayDreamer (talk) 01:55, 11 December 2012 (GMT)

Dragon Aspect[edit]

I notice you added to Dragon Aspect that one location is Blodskal Barrow. Maybe I'm missing something, but I was still in Raven Rock Mine when I found it. Am I missing something here? Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 06:53, 10 December 2012 (GMT)

I checked. It is, in fact, in Raven Rock Mine, not the barrow. Jeancey (talk) 07:08, 10 December 2012 (GMT)
Sorry, that place confused me a bit and I was back and forth. I see that it's already been fixed, so sorry for my mistake. — ABCface 15:15, 10 December 2012 (GMT)

Edit War on Miraak Page[edit]

Heys ABC I've been trying to help with that edit war going on on the Miraak page over his race. I don't think it actually worked but I attempted to place a semi-protect flag... the icon is there but none of the messages about it being protected show. I'd definitely say protecting it probably is in order for now. Would you agree? Lord Eydvar Talk|Contribs 11:18, 11 December 2012 (GMT)

No, I really don't think that's necessary. Even if I did, you should take it up with an administrator- I'm just a patroller. — ABCface 11:20, 11 December 2012 (GMT)
Yeah I know I'm trying to reach ME or Krusty on the IRC but I know patrollers have the power to do semi-protects on subpages. Meh either way mine didn't work but it did add the page to the list so it'll get reviewed by someone who can make the final decision. Lord Eydvar Talk|Contribs 11:23, 11 December 2012 (GMT)
No, the only protection feature available to patrollers is section protection, which is only approved for protecting official messages on user talk pages, so it wouldn't have done you much good in this case anyway. And just to be clear, there really was no need to protect the page in that case. From what I can tell, the anonymous user stopped reverting the edit pretty much right after ME's message on his/her talk page. It's always better to use talk pages to solve an issue like that, if possible, before resorting to page protection and other measures. eshetalk 14:48, 11 December 2012 (GMT)

Sorting Question[edit]

Howdy, ABC! I noticed you removed {{DEFAULTSORT:{{PAGENAME}}}} from a redirect I created. It's just something I've seen on redirects before and I copy and paste it along with everything else. But what exactly is it for, what does it do? When should it be used? Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 01:48, 13 December 2012 (GMT)

"DEFAULTSORT is useful when an article belongs to multiple categories: a single DEFAULTSORT tag will change the default sortkey for every category used on the article. The other reason to use DEFAULTSORT is that it applies to any categories that are indirectly added to the article using templates. If both DEFAULTSORT and a manual sortkey are provided, then the manual sortkey takes precedence."
I copy/pasted the relevant info from UESPWiki:Categories, since I didn't actually know until reading it just now. I just did the sorting manually, so using the DEFAULTSORT would have been irrelevant, though if I would have realized what it was or how to use it I might not have done a few recent edits to change categories made by trail templates the way I did. I would have still done those redirects that way though. — ABCface 01:53, 13 December 2012 (GMT)
Interesting; thanks for sorting that out for me. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 01:56, 13 December 2012 (GMT)

DLC tags[edit]

Hi. Regarding your [1], I really dunno. Do the DLCs normally only place new creatures/NPCs/whatever in locations that are also new to the DLC? I wouldn't think so, but I dunno. Still, it's a separate question from how well-marked or "over-marked" DLC stuff may be. I haven't been much of an observer of this, so if there's a more-or-less established norm, that's fine with me. My bias is that someone looking through the Skyrim pages/articles that see something they may not have in their game should be very clearly made aware of it. --JR (talk) 03:10, 16 December 2012 (GMT)

No, the DLC's don't only place new creatures in new locations, but those specific new creatures are only found in the Soul Cairn unless summoned (and the first line of each entry says that), so I think in that particular situation it's overkill to list both tags. That's just my opinion, which is why I left the question mark in my edit summary, in case anyone disagreed and wanted to change it back or discuss it. — ABCface 03:19, 16 December 2012 (GMT)
Usually just one DG tag suffices, and also one mod note; I just tweaked the undead article. That is what we usually do, such as for Skyrim:Traps and Skyrim:Passive Creatures. Also, DG tags are not needed for articles such as Boneman and Mistman, since we use mod headers; see other articles such as Skyrim:Lord Harkon, Skyrim:Keeper, and Skyrim:Oriella. ~ Psylocke 03:26, 16 December 2012 (GMT)
That looks good to me. Thanks. --JR (talk) 04:56, 16 December 2012 (GMT)

reporting vandals[edit]

Is there any way to report vandals that I'm missing? I caught the one from 2.222.whatever about the same time you did, looked and didn't see a method to report it, so clicked on the issue warning link. It showed up right after yours did. Quillan (talk) 14:43, 27 December 2012 (GMT)

In most cases, what you did was exactly the right thing to do. But in this case, a warning had already been given for the most recent acts of vandalism, so an additional warning was unneeded. Looking at their talk page history, the warning message I posted on their talk page was at 14:01. If you look at the user's contributions, you'll see that they last posted at 13:51. If the user had continued vandalizing even after they were given enough time to reasonably be able to read the warning message, then further action would have been appropriate. But since they didn't vandalize anymore after receiving the warning, the single warning was sufficient.
If you do encounter a situation when someone continues to repeatedly vandalize even after receiving a warning, you can post on the Administrator Noticeboard or on the talk page of an active administrator or blocker. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions. — ABCface 16:02, 27 December 2012 (GMT)

Augur of Dunlain[edit]

No, that's not quite what I meant. But then again, what I meant might be against some style policy and thus inapplicable anyway ;) . Anyway, what I was looking for was to have "I was told to find you." and "And what is it I'm seeking?" side-by-side, with their italicized corresponding dialogue underneath the two (and again, side-by-side), all of it centered. Hopefully that made sense... (Sorry, I suck at explaining things :P ). Of course, the same would then be done for "Thalmor? What Thalmor?" and "I'm not the first to come see you?". I saw this somewhere (of course I can't remember where), and thought it might look nice in this scenario. Let me know if you agree. --Vulpa 19:33, 30 December 2012 (GMT)

Okay, I think I know what you mean now, maybe. :P I tried two different ways of doing it using 'show preview' - once with the bolded dialogue centered, once with it left-aligned, and I think it looks better left-aligned. I also think it looks better without being side-by-side, but that might just be me. :P Either way, here's the two versions, feel free to play around with them and edit the page the way you prefer. (I used the {{Showhide}} template just so it didn't take up so much space on my talk page. That part wouldn't go on the AoD page.)
Also, I've seen this done on quest pages with images in the side-by-side parts, like here, but I couldn't think of anywhere I've seen it for just text. We might have pages with that formatting somewhere, just not that I could think of. Is that what you were thinking of? — ABCface 22:51, 30 December 2012 (GMT)
Wow, yeah-- the first version is what I was looking for (on second thought, centering it is ugly :P ). Thanks for looking all that up! I'll add it, and hopefully nobody will revert it for consistency. Because really, I can't think of another way to break up that text wall for the dialogue section, and I like this idea, personally. ;D --Vulpa 00:16, 31 December 2012 (GMT)

Are you sure they're referring to you the player?[edit]

You didn't change the info, just reworded it (I would have used "ironic" as well), but your edit summary suggested that they are talking at you, the player. It seems to me that they are speaking to Farkas, as he is the person they are attacking. Though I have no proof that they cant be talking to me, as I am always male and would then never hear the "she" part. Is there something in the files proving it? Just curious!--Catmaniac66 (talk) 06:49, 31 December 2012 (GMT)

See this and this dialogue in game data. The fact that the pronoun can be either masculine or feminine implies to me that its dependent on whether your character is male or female. I could be wrong, but that was why I assumed that. — ABCface 15:32, 31 December 2012 (GMT)
Hmm that is strange. Though you wouldn't think they'd put in a quote about what armor a player is wearing as this quest has to have been done at some point in every armor imaginable. I'll start a female character soon and see what the response is.--Catmaniac66 (talk) 18:40, 31 December 2012 (GMT)

Kind of a Love Letter[edit]

ABCface, I haven't interacted with you a lot, but I want to tell you that I think you are a valuable contributor to the wiki. I think that about a lot of others, too, but I just want to say that I admire your knowledge, your helpful and friendly attitude, and your gift for expressing yourself with particular clarity. I think the cookie graphic is ugly, so I just said what I thought.

Now, I'm really sorry if you may have been hungry for a cookie, and then I consciously didn't send one. If performed with malice aforethought, I believe such behavior would constitute a personal attack. --JR (talk) 12:41, 1 January 2013 (GMT)

LOL, thanks JR! You're pretty cool yourself. :) And I don't need any cookies, I'm happy with the big orange "You have new messages" banner leading me to a positive message rather than a negative one. :D — ABCface 15:21, 1 January 2013 (GMT)

Ildari's Journal[edit]

I'm fairly confident that it is the same person. The journal talks about using a heartstone to keep someone alive, which is what Ildari Sarothil succeeded in doing, and the process of trying to figure out how it could be done. The last line of the journal says "If my experiments with General Carius fail, I may have to resort to self-experimentation... something I've been avoiding for a long time." which indicates that the person tried it on themselves, which is also what Ildari Sarothil did (I think). This is a pretty big coincidence if it just happens to be the same first name, don't you think? There aren't that many people in DB for them to have reused a name of a major quest character. That's my opinion at least. Jeancey (talk) 19:33, 2 January 2013 (GMT)

We'd need some dialogue from her or Neloth to verify that. If it's not a certainty, it shouldn't be listed. — ABCface 19:40, 2 January 2013 (GMT)

Tomb consistency[edit]

It seems to me that the majority of the tombs family members sections ended in periods, and only a few ended in commas, and then an and. Why did you decide to change them all to commas with the and, rather than change the few comma ones to periods? It seems to me that you completely changed the style of every one? I might just be confused though... Jeancey (talk) 06:05, 4 January 2013 (GMT)

I checked a handful of random links from this list and of those random links, that was the most common format, so I went with it. In any case, I've gotten them all, so it's consistent now at least. — ABCface 06:09, 4 January 2013 (GMT)
I didn't count all of them, but I believe you changed over half of the tombs with family members to the new format. 32 ones were changed, and of the non changed ones, I came up with 3 with that format, and 20 that either didn't have family members, or only had one family member and the style didn't apply. I didn't check the rest yet though. I only brought it up because, with the bullet points, it seems that they should be distinct. With the new style it is almost like it is a sentence, that just happens to be broken up by bullets. I dunno it just seems awkward to me... Jeancey (talk) 06:13, 4 January 2013 (GMT)
It was really inconsistent, and I wanted to fix that, so I went with how the ones I randomly looked at already were. Honestly, if we're going to be re-fixing them all, I think it's better that none of them include commas or periods. I'm done for the night though, feel free to do what you wish with it. — ABCface 06:15, 4 January 2013 (GMT)
Actually, that would be my suggestion as well. I might do it tonight, or at some point tomorrow. Jeancey (talk) 06:17, 4 January 2013 (GMT)
Have at it. There should be 62 pages with a 'Family Members' section. — ABCface 06:19, 4 January 2013 (GMT)
Jeancey and I got them all. I really need to get a life one of these days... :P • JAT 08:20, 4 January 2013 (GMT)
Awesome, thanks. And if you two hadn't done it, I probably would have. :P — ABCface 16:49, 4 January 2013 (GMT)


Am I allowed to welcome people on their talk pages by doing copy paste? Or is that reserved for patrollers or something?? - Cheezytrousers (talk) 04:17, 5 January 2013 (GMT)

You're certainly allowed to welcome people! We have a handy page here with many standardized messages, and the welcome message is in this section. Using that page, you don't actually have to use copy/paste- you can just enter the username into the appropriate box. One thing to keep in mind though is that there are lots of people who make accounts but never edit, and sometimes there are people who make accounts for the purpose of vandalizing or spamming. So you should generally wait to welcome users after they make a good-faith edit to the site (as in, not spam or vandalism). Hope that helps! — ABCface 04:21, 5 January 2013 (GMT)
Cheers - Cheezytrousers (talk) 05:01, 5 January 2013 (GMT)
Oh sorry just another question, how do find out how many edits a user has had? - Cheezytrousers (talk) 05:12, 5 January 2013 (GMT)
If you go to Special:Contributions/Chezburgar you'll see all your contributions. If you go to Special:Contributions/Alphabetface, you'll see mine. So if you want to check a certain username, check "Special:Contributions/Username". If you're looking at the Recent Changes page, a diff page or a page history, there are links labeled "contribs" next to the username which makes it easier. — ABCface 05:17, 5 January 2013 (GMT)
Sorry to bother you once more, now on to a completely unrelated topic (I didn't want to make another section), do you think that in a couple of months I could be ready to be a patroller? - The Chez Cake Talk to the Cheese 23:04, 6 January 2013 (GMT)
Theoretically, almost any editor could be ready in a couple of months-- that's a significant amount of time on a wiki with this kind of traffic. Just continue contributing with good-faith edits, and keep your focus on improving the wiki rather than gaining any particular user rights. Patrollers are selected based on trust, and trust is built up by improving the wiki over time. Help out in whatever ways you can, by following the guidelines and style we prefer around here, adding reliable and verifiable information, fixing grammar and spelling where needed, etc. — ABCface 04:05, 7 January 2013 (GMT)

Cheers. - The Chez Cake Talk to the Cheese 04:07, 7 January 2013 (GMT)


I was just looking through the Dragonborn pages and I noticed there is no page for Animals or Monsters. Could I create the monsters page? - The Chez Cake Talk to the Cheese 22:59, 9 January 2013 (GMT)

For now, I went ahead and created them as redirects to the Skyrim pages. We're probably going to need to look into this further later... right now, each individual creature has its own page, with the exception of the passive creatures. And Dragonborn:Creatures already links to each of those individual pages. So it will probably take some time to figure out exactly what we're going to do with the other creature categories. — ABCface 00:01, 10 January 2013 (GMT)

Note added back[edit]

Thought you might want to check out Oblivion:Tutorial. The note you removed before (about Renault's Katana) has been added back. As you were the one to take it off in the first place I thought it better if you handled it. I wasn't exactly sure why it didn't belong in the notes section so wouldn't be able to put out a good argument. Happy editing :P Mikeyboy52 (talk) 11:29, 22 January 2013 (GMT)

Reverted it, just noting it down for you. -- Kiz (email - talk) 12:07, 22 January 2013 (GMT)
I had already seen it, but since I'd already reverted it once (as had The Silencer, once) I didn't want to appear to be edit warring, so I left it for someone else to go over and/or mark as patrolled. My reasoning for removing it before was that it seemed too opinionated/redundant to leave it in. It was the same user who added it three separate times now, so if they do it again, we can bring it up on the talk page for further input. — ABCface 18:10, 22 January 2013 (GMT)
Oh ok, understood. I don't think I've ever got up to the point of an edit war. Probably because when I do make an edit I always forget something and needs to be fixed anyways xD Mikeyboy52 (talk) 05:36, 23 January 2013 (GMT)
It doesn't happen all that often, it's nothing to be worried about doing. Editors are encouraged to be bold and contribute, and when an issue does arise, that's what talk pages are for. :) As for forgetting things that need to be fixed, we all do it, no worries. I do it all the time! :D — ABCface 05:41, 23 January 2013 (GMT)


Just wanted to say thank you for helping me out with cleaning up the wiki formatting on the Forums page. You are the silent crusader of a copy editor to my crazy inner writer. Thank you kindly and I appreciate it very much! Just thought you should know. -- Avron the S'wit (talk) 17:34, 22 January 2013 (GMT)

Aww, I didn't do much, just thought the first column stood out a little more with the extra emphasis. Page looks good, and I learned some new lingo! :)
PS: I think a good comparison for "ninja'd" is an "edit conflict"- we say people "EC'd" us. :P — ABCface 18:10, 22 January 2013 (GMT)
I think here is a good place to add this. I just wanted say that it's been a pleasure working with you on making edits to pages here and there. I appreciate your attention to detail and think you contribute a lot to this site: I've kind of gotten used to seeing your tweaks to my edits. Of course, I say that gladly; you are, after all, the more experienced editor, and it's always nice to have a second input on the changes I make. Be sure to let me know if there's any projects I might be able to help with! --BlackhawkXIII (talk) 03:44, 2 February 2013 (GMT)
Aww, thanks for the nice comments. :) The truth is, I am just really addicted to the wiki! I sometimes worry that people get annoyed at me always tweaking their edits (I think I do it to everyone...), but hopefully they realize that I am just trying to help. I have also noticed your name a bit when patrolling, particularly since Dragonborn came out, and your contributions are helpful, particularly on talk pages where you have brought up some good points which end up improving articles. At the moment, I think our Dragonborn pages are the most in need of work, since it's still so new-- and especially since we'll likely be getting a lot more traffic soon when the PC and PS3 versions come out. So, as an Xbox player, your help there is appreciated! — ABCface 04:00, 2 February 2013 (GMT)

The Light Armor/Heavy Armor note/bug[edit]

This originated on the Aela page, where there was a good deal of editing back and forth as to whether it should be considered a note or a bug. It's marked as a bug there now. I kinda think it should be a note actually but shouldn't we have it be the same on all the different follower pages? There are quite a few equipped with the "wrong" armour type. --Morrolan (talk) 02:10, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

I hadn't seen the editing on that particular page, but there's no reason to think that it's an actual bug. I've moved it to the notes section, along with the modification made by USKP. — ABCface 03:24, 25 January 2013 (GMT)
The other pages where this applies are Skyrim:VorstagSkyrim:Valdimar Skyrim:Ugor Skyrim:Cosnach Skyrim:Beleval Skyrim:Athis Skyrim:Torvar Skyrim:Ria if you want to update them all. Except it looks like you already have. Oh well :) --Morrolan (talk) 22:29, 25 January 2013 (GMT)
Actually, I'd missed that last one. Got 'em now. — ABCface 22:32, 25 January 2013 (GMT)


Regarding this edit: [2]

It seems trivial, and also sort of completely pointless. Why are you removing the period from the link text? Also, some of the editors here seem to have an obsession with replacing spaces with underscores inside of links. --Morrolan (talk) 02:47, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

I can't comment on the underscores (personally, I think links look cleaner with spaces, but the wiki doesn't care either way), but it's a general rule of wikis that you should only link the relevant text and nothing else. So, by that rule, the only time puncutation should be linked is if it's part of the actual name of what it is you're linking to. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:04, 25 January 2013 (GMT)
As RH said, the punctuation should not be part of the link unless it's part of the actual name of what's being linked. As for the underscores, it's pointless to remove them in the first place- it's simply a personal preference. If they're already there, there's absolutely no point in removing them. — ABCface 03:24, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

Dragonborn:Wreck of the Strident Squall Argonian / Redguard NPC images[edit]

Images for Argonian (NPC) and Redguard (NPC) :
Argonian (NPC) image
Redguard (NPC) image

DB-interior-White Ridge Barrow.jpg[edit]

Thanks for the rename, noticed it with my watchlist. Got to happy with the DB-places- prefix apparently. ᴷᴬᴸᴯᴵᴻᵀᴵ□ᴻ 01:04, 13 February 2013 (GMT)

"Leveled Lists" within Leveled Lists[edit]

ABCface, or anyone: Is it me, or is the term "leveled list/s" suddenly beginning to appear all over articles? Example: "Draugr Wight Lords can be very challenging opponents to lower level adventurers, as they appear in leveled lists quite early in the game" (the great new draugr page). I think the term is jargon, likely to make sense only to "gamers" with specialized knowledge, and so does not belong in places where they will cause many reader's minds to shut down and wander up into the ether. Not only is it a technical term, but the first thing one could learn about "leveled list" is that it can refer to any of at least three different things (see Skyrim:Leveled_Lists. This seems to be an "under the hood" concept referring to a system mechanics issue. I think we want to communicate in plain language except in places where we believe that a subset of users with specialized knowledge and interests would seek it. Please concur. ;p --JR (talk) 11:15, 27 January 2013 (GMT)

I agree on this, I'm still trying to get my mind around exactly how this works. :) --Scribbles (Crayolamanic) 22:36, 14 February 2013 (GMT)
I'm really not the best person to explain this, but a few of the bigger reasons we end up using this terminology are because 1) Skyrim is a complicated game, and simplifying such things without using that lingo isn't easy, and 2) it's accurate, especially compared to individual experiences people try to post or complain about. Example: "I saw a legendary dragon at level 50 so saying that they don't appear until level 78 is wrong." Well, the truth is, legendary dragons do begin to appear in leveled lists at level 78, so even if it's possible to encounter them earlier, it's rare and indicating to players that it's common for them to appear that early is misleading. (This is a real example of one user who reported a sighting that early when every single other report at the time—on UESP and all the top page listings on forums and other wikis in a Google search— kept insisting on changing the information on the page.) The fact is, the game data uses leveled lists. It's accurate, verifiable, and reliable, and that's why we use it on articles.
You'd be better off asking questions like this to people who have a better understanding of game data than me though. I understand it well enough to know what it means when reading it, but not well enough to explain it to someone else. — ABCface 05:13, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Mina Adoption[edit]

Hey ABC I've adopted her more then once. IDK Why people can't but she is adoptable last time I checked. Lord Eydvar Talk|Contribs 04:57, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Don't tell me, discuss it on the proper talk page. Also, if you seem to remember having done this, there wouldn't have been a reason to leave the huh tag. Since other reports indicate otherwise, please leave detailed comments on that talk page indicating the exact circumstances of how you were able to do this. — ABCface 05:00, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Neloth Image[edit]

I'm currently cleaning up the House Telvanni lore article, and would like to add a gallery as I did for the House Redoran article before. I'm looking for an image of Neloth, but the current one at File:DB-npc-Neloth.jpg is too active for my liking. Do you know whether the one you uploaded previously (revision 04:48, 7 February 2013) still exists somewhere? Thanks. --Enodoc (talk) 21:18, 24 February 2013 (GMT)

You may wish to ask Buskirkzz to reupload it (maybe as File:DB-npc-Neloth 02.jpg or something?), since he's the one that actually took the image. All I did was crop it to fit the wiki's aspect ratio standards. — ABCface 01:29, 25 February 2013 (GMT)
I went ahead and downloaded the previous version, then uploaded it as File:DB-npc-Neloth2.jpg. --Xyzzy Talk 06:53, 25 February 2013 (GMT)
Thanks guys. I'd appreciate a proof-read of my rewrite at some point too, if you have time, to make sure I've got the right idea. --Enodoc (talk) 09:31, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

dwarven spheres are males[edit]

it's kinda relevant because there's agent of dibella, and another dragonborn dlc power i forgot that gives +damage to opponent of the opposite sex. Dawn (talk) 06:19, 3 March 2013 (GMT)

Can you direct me to where to learn how to create a user page?[edit]

I've tried reading/looking through the help file, but can't find anything on this subject. I've looked at your page with all the nice boxes and want to let people see who I am. — Unsigned comment by Biffa (talkcontribs) on 25 March, 2013

Here is a link to the Userboxes page, where you can learn how you can display a userbox (same link in the welcome message). Alphabetface uses a table to display her userboxes. If you want to learn to edit pages, my advice is to see how it is done elsewhere. So in this case, I would click the edit tab on Alphabetface's userpage so I can see how her page is composed, and fortunately it's not a complicated code to figure out here. I hope this info helps you ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 11:37, 25 March 2013 (GMT)
Sorry for being slow to reply, Biffa! And thanks for answering in the meantime, Dwarfmp. :)
Basically, what Dwarfmp suggested is a great way to start. The Userboxes page has a large number of different types of userboxes you can use, as well as directions on creating your own custom userbox. If you want to play around with tables and different ways to format the page, making use of the show preview button is really helpful-- you can try something out, then hit the button to see if it works, then continue adjusting it as needed before hitting save. Also, don't feel bad at all for simply copy/pasting the formatting from anyone else's userpage-- people "borrow" userpage layouts from other users all the time, and it's actually a really good way to develop an understanding of certain types of coding (depending on how complicated it is). And, of course, if you have any questions, you can always feel free to ask. I'm not as active here lately as I used to be, but I still check my talk page almost daily, and I will always respond to messages as quickly as I can. There are also several mentors around who are happy to answer questions as well. Good luck! — ABCface 17:43, 25 March 2013 (GMT)

Edit problems[edit]

It seems that after editing some linked pages, the data in the chart will missing, such as book pages and ingredient pages. I tried to open the edit page, everything is ok. Is this all right? By the way, I've checked the books in Greathall in several different stages, they never change. Dreamshadow (talk) 03:51, 28 March 2013 (GMT)

Without knowing specifics, I'm guessing you're running into a slight caching issue. Sometimes with pages which deal with transclusions, it takes a bit for the edit to "catch up" on the related page, so it will look like the info is messed up (or missing, in many cases) when that's not the case. Usually, purging the pages in question will fix the issue quicker than just waiting it out. If you want, you can edit your user preferences (in the Gadgets tab) to add a purge tab at the top of articles, which makes it easy and fast to do. Otherwise, you can do it manually by typing something at the end of the url on that page, but someone else would have to chime in with the exact text because I don't remember it offhand (sorry!).
As for the comment on verifying the books, I wasn't trying to negate your edit or say it was wrong in any way- it's just a habit of mine as a patroller to mention things like that when I fix the text part of an edit without actually checking the info in game data. It's not needed, but just a habit of my own-- you can just ignore it, as only patrollers can see which edits need to be checked/patrolled anyway. — ABCface 05:41, 28 March 2013 (GMT)
I see~ Tnank you very much! It will take me some time to take it into practice.
As a matter of fact, I'm still a green hand here and lack of experience. You know, English isn't my mother tongue and midiawiki is a completely new platform for me. So, feel free to undo my edits or point out my faults, I won't feel bad. However, without soild evidences(mostly my game experience though), I won't make too many edits. At the same time, I will try my best to be more careful. Dreamshadow (talk) 08:29, 28 March 2013 (GMT)
You are doing just fine, and have been quite helpful in your edits that I've seen, so no worries! :) Your English is very good too, so just keep doing what you're doing. :) Also, another editor let me know (in the section below) how to purge a page manually, which is just to add ?action=purge at the end of the url in most cases. It's still easier to do it the first way I mentioned, which is in your user preferences, so that would be the way I recommend if you plan on purging pages with any regularity. Otherwise, don't worry about it at all. If it looks like pages are missing information in the tables, it's something that can be fixed easily and quickly, so it's nothing to worry about. :) Keep up the good work with editing! — ABCface 18:51, 28 March 2013 (GMT)

Purging a page[edit]

Sorry about missing your IRC messages, I was off for a snack. The easiest way to purge a page is to add the clock gadget in your preferences, then just click on the time. To do it fully manually, what you said in IRC while I was away was right, but only some of the time. The way it works is that the first command takes a question mark before it, then all commands after that take an ampersand. So if you're looking at something like, then you would add ?action=purge to the end. If you're already looking at something like a history or whatever, where it's got a ?title=...&action=... then you just change the action to action=purge. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:13, 28 March 2013 (GMT)

Apparently you didn't read the post above, which is what the question was for. :P I'll just copy your answer to there. Thanks! :D — ABCface 18:51, 28 March 2013 (GMT)

Periods after quest descriptions[edit]

Are we putting periods or no? I wasn't sure, so I checked some other random quest page (no clue which one) and it didn't have one, so I removed it from Dragonborn:Paid in Full as well. Or is this one of the ones like image descriptions where it varies depending on whether it's a full sentence or just a phrase? Robin Hood  (talk) 19:53, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

Yes, always add them. Here was one brief talk (it looks like a follow-up discussion too) (and you took part in it). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 20:19, 30 March 2013 (GMT)
Thanks, I remembered we'd discussed periods in some context or another, but not the specifics. As for me taking part in it, I don't remember yesterday much less last year. :P Robin Hood  (talk) 21:59, 30 March 2013 (GMT)

Conversations or Dialogue[edit]

I am a little confused now. In the past few days, I was trying to collect conversations between NPCs in Skyrim and adding them into related pages. In order to ensure the quality, I'd like to follow the examples of already-exist pages. Please take a look at these two pages, here and here. Which one is better? Conversations or Dialogue? Just a few lines or a table? By the way, I don't know who is writing the adoption page now. I'm sure my sandbox would be of some help~ Dreamshadow (talk) 05:23, 1 April 2013 (GMT)

Hey Dreamshadow! What you see on Oengul’s page is the conversation format we use the most – and the format on Anoriath’s page is clearly outdated and unnecessary. Tables should only be used for conversations with random dialogue (example. There is, however, an alternative option for ordinary dialogue – a hiddentable that sometimes works better. It’s a matter of taste, but both the Oengul method and this hiddentable are commonly used and therefore okay for formatting. Hope that helped – otherwise, hit me on my talk page. Best, Krusty (talk) 18:33, 3 April 2013 (GMT)
I see! Fortunately, I only made two edits with the Anoriath's style, Kuvar and Bujold the Unworthy. Thank you very much~ Dreamshadow (talk) 00:24, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

Invitation to join a translating team.[edit]

Please help us translate this
Dear Alphabetface,

You are invited to join a team that will be attempting to translate the unknown language on the Word Wall in the 6th Chapter of the Black Book Waking Dreams, the Word Wall that gives the third word ( D3V ) of the Dragon Aspect shout. There are strange, moving words behind the Dragon Language text on the Wall, written in an unrecognisable language. The Dragon Language part of the Word Wall has already been translated. It is the moving words in the unrecognisable language that this project hopes to translate.

This project will be happening in my sandbox, which is open to collaboration by invited team members. The talk page of the sandbox is open to other contributors as well. I hope to see you get involved in the project. I have hand-picked you because you may have previously been involved in Elder Scrolls language translations in the past on the wiki, particularly if you worked on the Magic Script Alphabet or the Elder Alphabet pages.

Visit my sandbox Veh here.

Kind regards,
Daric Gaersmith

User-Daric Gaersmith-gaerleg navtitle.png

Daric 12:25, 23 April 2013 (GMT)

Bloody Canadians...[edit]

...and their double l's. Sheesh! Robin Hood  (talk) 09:07, 27 April 2013 (GMT)

Patrol Log[edit]

You're not on IRC right now that I can see, so I figured I'd just post to your talk page. Based on what I'm seeing in Wikipedia, the patrol log issue where autopatrolled edits display the same as patrolled edits seems to be a bug in 1.19 that got fixed before 1.19 was released officially, but somehow never actually put into the publicly released code until 1.20. I've tracked down the specific change that needs to be made and tested it on the development server. I'll upload it to the real servers later...right now, my cat says dinner is a bigger priority for him than UESP. :) Robin Hood  (talk) 23:15, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

Cool, glad you were able to find the information needed to put it back. It wasn't really an issue I guess as much as a nice feature that I missed having before the upgrade, but either way it's good to know we'll have it back soon. Thanks for looking into it! Oh, and I got disconnected when I wasn't at my computer, so I couldn't identify on IRC which is why you didn't see me on there. I'll be around a bit later though, and might have another unimportant question for ya. :P Thanks again! :) — ABCface 00:52, 8 June 2013 (GMT)


I just saw the OB:Radish page in the recent changes and remembered I fixed something with it last night. Then I realized that something went wrong when I changed it (the 'unexplained changes' in your summary). I just want to let you know that I have no idea what happened there. All I touched were the links of the locations. Sorry, I really don't know what happened! *WoahBro►talk 14:10, 15 June 2013 (GMT)

You may have been looking at a previous version of the page when you edited; this revision and earlier are all very similar to your edit. Vely►t►e 18:15, 15 June 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, I figured it wasn't intentional, due to your edit summary. No biggie! And Vely's guess as to what happened is probably right, sometimes that can happen without realizing it. It's all good. :) — ABCface 18:47, 15 June 2013 (GMT)

Ebony Warrior Edit I made[edit]

I did it because I wanted his Abilities, Resistances and spells seperated. It can be very confusing when it is all together. Dragon Guard (talk) 16:37, 30 June 2013 (GMT)

It's been on the page for four months and has not been an issue in that time. If you find something confusing, use that article's talk page to ask someone for help. There's no reason to list the same information more than once on the same article. — ABCface 16:44, 30 June 2013 (GMT)

Lleril Morvayn Alternate Served Cold quest ending maybe??[edit]

In the CK, there are dialogue lines where Lleril says for a bleedout: I join you in death, father... Can you verify it? I think it would be an interesting note to put on his NPC page, actually. Dragon Guard (talk) 19:29, 5 July 2013 (GMT)

Yes, that dialogue is in game data for Lleril Morvayn, though I'm unsure of the conditions. If you can actually trigger it in-game without mods/console, that would be one way to find out. If it cannot be heard in-game without mods/console, it belongs in the Notes section of his page with a detail explaining why. When it comes to game data or the CK, I'm not the best person to ask though. I have a limited understanding of game data and I use the wiki's internal database rather than the actual CK, so for questions regarding game data you might want to ask someone else. I'm always willing to tell you as much as I can find out on my own of course, but I just figured you should know that others would be better suited to answer questions of that nature. — ABCface 22:46, 6 July 2013 (GMT)

Sandbox 3[edit]

For my sandbox in sandbox 3 are the users who I have chosen who can help me complete huge edits in sandbox 4. Just letting you know. Do they get notified in recent changes? Because it will be good if they know that they can help in the sandbox. Dragon Guard (talk) 16:22, 6 July 2013 (GMT)

No one will get specifically notified unless they put the sandbox on their watchlist. I myself have done so, but whether others do or not is up to them. As a general rule, editors are expected to leave sandboxes alone that belong to anyone else, unless given permission to edit them. The template at top is a convenient way to let patrollers and userpatrollers know who has been given permission (for instance, if you edit your sandbox without logging in, it will be reverted because only you and those you listed are allowed to edit that sandbox). So you have already done the right thing by adding those you trust to edit your sandbox to the top of the page.
Also, I forgot to mention this before, but please remember to be patient when waiting for anyone to look over your sandbox before posting to the article page. Keep in mind that some editors live in different time zones, and have busy schedules in real life, as well as other tasks to see to on the wiki. It's important to remember to take your time and focus on quality rather than being in a rush to get a certain edit published to an article page. And if there are certain things you're unsure about when editing in your sandbox, feel free to use edit summaries or the talk page for that sandbox to ask about it and someone may be able to help answer your specific questions more quickly than they would be able to actually look over the full page. — ABCface 22:46, 6 July 2013 (GMT)

Hadvar's Dialogue[edit]

It should not be in a table. It should be in a lst because a table is quite complicated and... it saves time. Dragon Guard (talk) 06:10, 8 July 2013 (GMT)

Sorry, but that reasoning doesn't work. As I said in my reply to you just above this post, and others have reminded you as well, it is better to take your time and focus on making good quality edits than to get in a rush and save a messy page. UESPWiki is known for quality articles and reliable, verifiable information. We don't want people posting things in a rush just to get a certain edit published to an article page. Not only was certain dialogue in that edit non-unique, but the format is not how we set up NPC pages, which you already knew before making the edit in the first place. It doesn't matter if it saves time, it doesn't matter if it's easier. If you don't want to take the time to do something right, then post the information on the article talk page and wait for someone else to handle it in the correct way, or simply use the wiki as a reader and not an editor. I offered to help you with your edits, and it is frustrating that instead of accepting the help and taking the many pieces of advice I and other editors have given you, you continue to disregard the wiki's style guidelines and standards which you've been made aware of. It's disruptive to the wiki and inconsiderate to other editors who spend their time trying to help. — ABCface 06:31, 8 July 2013 (GMT)

Dexion Evicus Sandbox[edit]

For my sandboxes in Sandbox 5 is where I am redeveloping Dexion Evicus's page. Since you have Dawnguard, I figured you would be a good help to redevelop his page in Sandbox 5. Dragon Guard (talk) 19:22, 9 July 2013 (GMT)

I've put that page on my watchlist. I haven't done any Dawnguard-related gameplay in several months, but I think I still have some saves from playing each side. Anyway, I'm definitely able to help with grammar, wording, page formatting, etc. If you have any specific questions about other things, use the talk page for your sandbox and I'll try to help if I can. Just remember to be patient when waiting for feedback, as I have other things to do as well. Thanks. :) — ABCface 20:45, 9 July 2013 (GMT)

ok, newbie question[edit]

Earlier wrote on my page that in order to have text go under user boxes you add the new line template in between the two. Well I've done this several times and ways and every time I get red text in the top right of my userboxes saying "template new line". If you can help that'd be great. Dotto88 (talk) 05:22, 10 July 2013 (GMT)

The template is {{NewLine}}, with no space. My guess is you're trying to do it with a space between "New" and "Line". Make sure the capitalization and spacing is just how it appears in this message. If that still doesn't work when using "show preview", save the page and I may be able to figure it out then. — ABCface 05:25, 10 July 2013 (GMT)

About the Sandbox edit you reverted[edit]

It says on the WIP template on Lord Harkon's page: However, you are welcome to help in the discussion/construction of this ongoing project. For ongoing project it has that as a link to that sandbox, so it confused me beforehand about editing other sandboxes. Also, the second edit I made before I read your notice in the edit summary to me was because I made another edit immediately after the first edit I made. If the creator of the Sandbox gives permission for me to edit, can that revert you made to my edit be reverted because reverting that will be quicker than typing the dialogue all from scratch like I did in the edits? Dragon Guard (talk) 19:04, 11 July 2013 (GMT)

Jimeee must specifically give his permission in order for you to be able to make an edit to his sandbox. Use his talk page or the talk page for that sandbox to ask him if you can help, and how. — ABCface 19:18, 11 July 2013 (GMT)

Miraak Page Needing Cleanup[edit]

Just wanted to say that when I added his dialogue a while ago, I checked the conditions for his dialogue in the CK, when I was adding it. Just wanted to let you know that dialogue has been checked 100%, since you were the one who put the cleanup template on in the first place. Dragon Guard (talk) 17:02, 12 July 2013 (GMT)

Thanks for the reassurance, but when I add those types of notes (whether in an edit summary, cleanup template, or wherever), they are generally meant for patrollers whose task is to check edits on the wiki. In general, any time someone says something needs verification on the wiki, it means that it needs to be verified by someone other than whoever added it. This ensures that at least two people have verified the information, and just helps to keep our wiki at top quality overall. Nothing personal about it at all. :) — ABCface 17:16, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
I checked in the CK. it will always be correct in that source, unless there are mods that change the dialogue conditions. (I don't really use mods) Dragon Guard (talk) 17:42, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
Again, it needs to be checked by someone other than the editor who added it. I'm glad you're being thorough, and checking the information you add yourself - that's a good thing. But it still needs to be checked by someone else, and the other parts of the cleanup tag need to be addressed as well. — ABCface 17:44, 12 July 2013 (GMT)

Sandbox 6 layout[edit]

The image of him and Odahviing is in the way of Quest Related Events text. How come when I remove the image, the layout of the page gets destroyed? Dragon Guard (talk) 18:05, 12 July 2013 (GMT)

It looks like you accidentally removed the closing curly braces brackets ( }} ) from the end of the NPC Summary template. Right before the part where you have _NOTOC_, just add the }} in there. Also, the _NOTOC_ should be __NOTOC__ (with two underscores on each side instead of one). Hope this helps! — ABCface 18:09, 12 July 2013 (GMT)

Sandbox 6 help with dialogue[edit]

Farengar has absoloutely loads of dialogue for the quest Bleak Falls Barrow in conversation. I found the boxes with arrows on all his dialogue in the conversation in the CK. A one-person job on this will be a quite difficult tak. In the CK the load of boxes was confusing me. If you have the time, go into the CK and search MQ103. Then find the quest and open up dialogue views on it. You will see the table is a little confusing. Dragon Guard (talk) 18:59, 12 July 2013 (GMT)

I'm sorry, but I don't have the CK. I use the wiki's internal database for game data, CSList. I can still find most information I tend to need as a patroller, though I generally don't search for the purposes of article writing as much as for checking information. Anyway, if you have questions about specific lines, you can e-mail me the IDs for those lines, and I can try to help sort them out with you. You'll find that when writing pages like this, it's best to go back & forth between actual gameplay and the data you have available to you. It requires a lot of time and patience, and you generally should have multiple saves for checking things in-game. Luckily, that quest is an early one, so if you don't have any saves with the appropriate starting point already, it should be fairly easy to create one. Good luck! — ABCface 19:48, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
E-mailed you the dialogue. Dragon Guard (talk) 20:05, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
Got it, sent a reply through e-mail. — ABCface 20:35, 12 July 2013 (GMT)

Sandbox 7 Urag Elder Scroll buying and selling dialogue[edit]

Can you help add Urag's dialogue when buying and selling the Elder Scroll with him? After this part the sandbox on Urag will be complete. Dragon Guard (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2013 (GMT)

Confirmation of a discussion a long time ago[edit]

You and I had a discussion on the page Proving Honor page as to who the Silver Hand was referring to when they attack Farkas. It appears they have to be referring to him as my female characters always have them say "he." To me this means that, while they are not responding to the player, that when the dialogues were recorded that it was possible to be sent there with a female Companion member. Just thought I'd clarify it here, even though it was a year old XD-- 01:22, 28 July 2013 (GMT)

I couldn't remember the conversation at first, and finally found it in my talk page history. Thanks for the very belated update, haha! Anyway, you've piqued my curiosity on this, so I guess I'll double-check it in my game later. :) — ABCface 02:51, 28 July 2013 (GMT)

Merging Dragonborn:Cultists vs Player[edit]

Hey Alphabetface :) I wanted to bring back to your attention your input on the talk page for Dragonborn:Cultists vs Player. I added my opinion there as well just after I started attempting to source images for that quest page; I realized that with the actual merging of the quest targets between this quest ID and the "Dragonborn" quest ID, it would probably be best for the sake of ease of use here on the UESP to merge the pages. That's only coming from my perspective, which at this time is still a little limited (given that I've never done a quest page merge like this myself). Thanks! GodRaineTalk 04:01, 31 July 2013 (GMT)

Thanks GodRaine. Since Xyzzy has added some more to the discussion there, I think I'll wait another week so that others have another chance to add their input. It's on my watchlist, and I've just made myself a note to merge the pages if no one opposes before then. — ABCface 12:58, 31 July 2013 (GMT)

Generic Voiced Dialogue in Morrowind in CS[edit]

Where can I find generic Voiced dialogue in the CS? I have looked everywhere. Dragon Guard (talk) 17:43, 3 August 2013 (GMT)

Character -> Dialogue... -> Voice
If you want to export the dialogue for easy copy-paste, go to File -> Export Data -> Dialogue -> All Dialogue. I do not think there is an option to export only some dialogue, but it'll be sorted so you can easily find the stuff you want. Vely►t►e 18:08, 3 August 2013 (GMT)
It is different. I am using the ipad 2, not a computer, so that won't work. Dragon Guard (talk) 18:23, 3 August 2013 (GMT)
By CS, I mean CSList. Dragon Guard (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2013 (GMT)
CS generally means Construction Set, so it does help to mention that you are actually using CSList.
I do not believe you can view dialogue via CSList. If you send me an email via the wiki's "email user" function, I can reply with a file containing exported dialogue soon. Vely►t►e 19:01, 3 August 2013 (GMT)


Sent you the email. Dragon Guard (talk) 11:34, 4 August 2013 (GMT)

Replied there. — ABCface 13:24, 4 August 2013 (GMT)

A Question[edit]

Hi AlphabetFace, This is my first time editing on UESP, so I figured that I should check with somebody more familiar with it. I was thinking of editing the page Skyrim:Gadnor to make it easier to read, correct a few minor grammatical errors, and tidy up the levelled items text. My question is, does the UESP state for you to write a levelled bow, or to list the levels like the previous editor did? Thanks — Unsigned comment by Savos (talkcontribs) at 21:37 on 6 August 2013‎

It varies on different articles, but most often we will state "leveled bow" and the highest quality, like "a leveled bow (up to ebony quality at level 12)" or something. In this case, it's actually better to keep the specifics because it is not only leveled, like most cases, but both leveled and randomized. Also, something to keep in mind, this wiki uses US spellings for most words, so it would be "leveled" rather than "levelled" on articles. I also sent you a welcome message on your talk page with lots of useful links. Hope this helps! Please ask if you have any further questions. :) — ABCface 21:42, 6 August 2013 (GMT)
Thanks, I forgot about the US spellings. I see what you mean with the randomisation. I'll try to make it a little more pleasing on the eye, but I won't change that to leveled bow. — Unsigned comment by Savos (talkcontribs) at 21:52 on 6 August 2013
Sure thing, let me know if you have any other questions! Also, to sign your posts on discussion pages, type ~~~~ (or simply click the signature button located just above the editing window - Help-Signature button.png ) at the end of your message. When you save the page, the site will automatically convert the four tildes (~~~~) into your username (or IP address, if not signed in to a registered account) and the current time. — ABCface 21:56, 6 August 2013 (GMT)

Quotations and punctuation[edit]

Is there a consensus on whether American or non-American punctuation styles are to be used on the wiki? Though the founder of the wiki is Canadian, Bethesda Softworks is American, which would put the whole of the Elder Scrolls series into American style by default; I feel this would be more appropriate option for typographical conventions here. Proton[talk] 18:07, 11 August 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, unfortunately our wiki uses logical quotation. I don't like it either. Style Guide. — ABCface 18:10, 11 August 2013 (GMT)
My edit to the style guide more accurately reflects the resolution of the discussion at the Community Portal. Though it was determined that logical quotes are “preferred,” it stated that those more comfortable with traditional quotes are still free to use them, and that the main point was to prevent edit wars and keep editors from reverting logical quotes. It stands to reason that the focus is therefore consistency, not preference. Proton[talk] 20:14, 11 August 2013 (GMT)
The discussion took three place years ago, and for the last two years, the guideline has changed in practice. My edit reflects standard practice, and a new discussion should be brought up if you wish to change it. — ABCface 20:17, 11 August 2013 (GMT)
Was a discussion brought up as it changed in practice over the last two years, or did people just start doing it? Proton[talk] 20:19, 11 August 2013 (GMT)
To hop in for a moment here, 99% of our pages already use logical quotation style. If a single page uses a different style, it will be inconsistent with the rest.
Following that Bethesda is American, we do use American spelling. The quotation style was probably taken from Wikipedia to start with. It doesn't much matter why we use it, though, just so long as everything is consistent. Vely►t►e 20:40, 11 August 2013 (GMT)
American English with British punctuation rules makes no sense, of course, but in the words of Sotha Sil, "It cannot be fixed now". That train left the station years ago. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 22:37, 11 August 2013 (GMT)

() As one of the proponents for the universal implementation of logical quotation, at least the first time (original, continuation), I figured I should chip in here as well. (Not sure if there may be other discussions, since ABCface mentions something three years ago, but the discussion I just quoted is five years ago.)

Anyway, much of my reasoning was simply "we're all doing it differently, let's fix that". I'd only made the switch to logical quotation recently, myself, at that point, but found it to be so much less ambiguous in so many cases that I quickly came to like it. That was pretty much the driving reason for me to suggest logical over traditional quotation in the end: we're an encyclopedia, and like a lot of North American technical journals, and Wikipedia itself, I feel we should be striving to reflect what's in the game as closely as possible, which means using logical quotation. It's also important when writing certain bug notes, though, like:

  • Pc22.png To fix this problem, type "prid 00012345" and then "enable".

Putting the period inside the quotation marks would be confusing, even with the code formatting, as that's easy to miss. Lastly, even the Chicago Manual of Style recommends logical quotation for computer code, and allows that it may be appropriate when writing for an international audience, which we are.

So, those are the main reasons the original style was put in place. It was deemed "not a big deal" at the time, hence the clause in the style guide about being mostly there to prevent style wars. Since then, as ABCface said, it seems to have just taken off, and even though there was never an official site-wide attempt to clean it up, the de facto standard has been that pretty much any new edit that uses traditional quotation seems to gets updated to logical quotation not long after. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we're at 90%+ of pages that are using logical quotation, so it makes sense to me to continue to encourage that style rather than go back to the random styles on different pages (and even on the same page) that we had five years ago. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:10, 12 August 2013 (GMT)


Focussed is the British spelling, focused is American. So it wasn't a typo, but was just a Britishism (I'm not a Brit but I have a British parent). --Morrolan (talk) 00:50, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Ah, I didn't realize that was a British spelling. I've got a mental list of a ton of random words that are different in American and non-American English but I never knew that was one of them. Since I'd never seen this one and your spelling is always correct in the contributions of yours I've seen, I just assumed it was a typo. Sorry! When I do know that it's a case of non-American spelling, I'm always careful to leave an edit summary of "US spelling" rather than "typo" or "spellcheck" or whatever, so as not to offend anyone or get into silly debates. :P I'll add this one to my mental list and keep it in mind in the future. :) — ABCface 02:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
What makes it worse is that the Brits spell it both ways of course. But I think the double-s is more common over there. --Morrolan (talk) 05:29, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, us Canucks do it too. Like the Brits, we see it both ways here, but I think that has more to do with the US spelling spilling over than anything else. As a general rule, words that end in a single vowel and then a consonant other than c (which becomes "ck" in all English variants), we want to double the last letter (e.g., focussed, travelling), where the US spelling doesn't. But if it's a double vowel and a consonant (e.g., feeling, treated), we don't. I know there are some exceptions, though, like "equalled", which gets doubled despite being a double vowel/consonant combo, but I don't know what they all are. This is one case where I support the American spelling changes, even though, out of habit, I don't usually use them. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:13, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
Canucks? Never heard that one before either. Of course, I probably won't need to ever use it on the wiki, but you know. I suppose I'll file that away in my head too. :P — ABCface 02:14, 16 August 2013 (GMT)
Don't ask me where we get that one from, other than the fact that the first three letters are the same. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:19, 16 August 2013 (GMT)
Well, I'm Canadian too, but I've never seen any but me spell it that way, so I assumed it was the British thing. Oh well :) Nobody knows what the exact origin of the word Canuck is, Wikipedia has the common theories. --Morrolan (talk) 10:27, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

Requested images[edit]

I give up. With you and Jeancey fixing my file names as I'm trying to add them to the Requested Images page, I can't keep track. I think I got all 7 of the house/cottage images you requested uploaded, so let me know if any are missing. If so, I'll upload them (with a name that matches what you and Jeancey are doing) ;) --Xyzzy Talk 05:18, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

Sorry, at first I was going to wait until you were done but then I wasn't sure if you were still uploading or moving or what, so I figured I'd help ya along. The only one missing is SR-interior-Hod and Gerdur's House 02.jpg, the one for the cooking and dining area of that home. Thanks for getting the images so fast! :) And sorry for the confusion! — ABCface 05:20, 24 August 2013 (GMT)
File:SR-interior-Hod_and_Gerdur's_House_02.jpg. No sweat. Mainly my fault. Beer and uploading don't mix well. --Xyzzy Talk 05:32, 24 August 2013 (GMT)
But beer and the weekend do! :D No worries, thanks again! :) — ABCface 05:33, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

Not a bug...sorta[edit]

Investing in Ghorza (or Tacitus) gets you an extra 500 for both herself and Moth. Of course, since Ghorza's investment dialogue is bugged unless you have USKP, that extends to Moth as well. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:18, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

Huh. That's a really odd situation. Since it affects Moth gro-Bagol, should it be mentioned on his page? It seems notable enough to me. (If so, you may be better off posting it there yourself, as you'd probably word it better than me.) — ABCface 04:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)
Apparently, I was way ahead of you...or maybe way behind? :) Either way, I'm just reading this now that I've added appropriate notes to all the relevant pages. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:37, 26 August 2013 (GMT)
haha, it's all good. That's what I get for changing my nick on ya in IRC. :P And thanks! — ABCface 04:41, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

Ebony Warrior's Face Image[edit]

Would it be appropriate for me to put an image request on the request page (i.e. would it be within the image request guidelines) for a picture of his face? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 19:16, 31 August 2013 (GMT)

As long as it's something you can see in standard gameplay, and fits within the context of the article, it's fine. All the standard guidelines for image requests apply. — ABCface 17:37, 1 September 2013 (GMT)


You seem to add "NOTOC" to a lot of pages, and I've become curious just what it means. I'm sure it's some kind of wiki directive, but what exactly is it? Xolroc (talk) 13:40, 4 September 2013 (GMT)

It hides the Table of Contents, which depending on the page can be useful, especially if there's a manually created Table of Contents (such as Morrowind:Base Weapons). • JAT 14:18, 4 September 2013 (GMT)
Ahh, I was reading it as "NOT OC," not as "NO TOC." — Unsigned comment by Xolroc (talkcontribs) at 14:53 on 4 September 2013 (GMT)

Bloodlines article[edit]

Hey, I'm the unregistered user from the Bloodlines talk page, the one who mentioned that the edits I'd made had disappeared. I thought it would be more appropriate to reply to you here. Thanks for the heads-up about that! Looking again, my edits are now visible again. This explains a lot; I had thought it odd that the history page showed no record of the removal of my edits.

If I see another article where I'd like to make an edit, I'll definitely register an account first. Thanks again. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 20:18 on 5 September 2013

It's no problem! I know it can be confusing when you think something you added (or just something you read and are looking for again) has been removed, and it's an unfortunate issue the wiki has. No one's been able to figure out why it happens or how to fix it yet, so it's just one of those things we inform people of whenever it happens to come up. Creating an account isn't necessary, but there's definitely no downside to doing so. It's fast and easy to do, and it helps to avoid that caching issue. :) — ABCface 20:22, 5 September 2013 (GMT)

Sorry for all the corrections your having to make.....[edit]

Hiya, sorry for all the correction you keep having to make to my info, I am trying to learn where I keep making errors by looking at what exactly you are having to change. I hope you feel I'm assisting and not just creating work for you. If you think it would be better I could go back to putting my comments on the discussion pages for someone better able to write it up in the correct style/way. I'm not taking your amendments as criticisms, just won't to make sure that my efforts are helpful instead of a hindrance. Biffa (talk) 13:22, 25 September 2013 (GMT)

Don't be sorry! You are doing a GREAT thing by adding content to articles, it is something that is greatly appreciated! The wonderful thing about a wiki is that it's a collaborative effort where people with different editing habits can come together and use their different gifts and knowledge to improve the overall product-- some people focus on adding content, while others upload images, and others see to grammar, etc. You are definitely making helpful contributions, so there is no need to worry about others making edits to what you have added. It's just the way the wiki works. Keep doing what you're doing, and feel free to ask if you have any specific questions. :) — ABCface 16:59, 25 September 2013 (GMT)
Hiya Alphabetface, if/when you get a chance could you have a look at the Wreck of the Icerunner and give me some constructive critism before I plow ahead with further place updates. Is there too much detail, not enough, wrong type, etc... — Unsigned comment by Biffa (talkcontribs) at 14:34 on 2 October 2013‎
Sure thing, Biffa. I've gone ahead and opened the page in a separate tab so that when I'm done with some other things I will remember to check it out. It may not be right away, but it should be within the next 24 hours or so. :) — ABCface 16:44, 2 October 2013 (GMT)
No problem, appreciate your time and effort in helping me, whenever you have time. Biffa (talk) 16:55, 2 October 2013 (GMT)
Been a busy few days so I haven't gotten to it yet, but it's on my list, I promise! :) Also, there's currently a related discussion on the Community Portal regarding various aspects of dungeon walkthroughs (such as the amount of detail, etc.), so reading that may show you that it's something not all editors agree 100% on anyway. I'm still willing to give you my own personal feedback though, as you requested, just something I thought I'd mention. And if you haven't yet, please feel free to contribute to the discussion! That's another thing on my to-do list, when I find the time! :) — ABCface 02:44, 5 October 2013 (GMT)

Microsoft Points[edit]

As you presumably know, they don't exist anymore. However all the XBox DLC prices on our pages are set in them. I'm not sure if the prices in Canada are the same as the ones in the US, but could you check and see what the costs are for the various Oblivion & Skyrim DLC packages are now? I'll add the Canadian prices where they're different. --Morrolan (talk) 14:19, 4 October 2013 (GMT)

Good call, we do need to update this. I'll look into it tonight (keep in mind, for me "tonight" means at some point before I go to sleep, which could easily be as late as 4am... :P ). — ABCface 02:44, 5 October 2013 (GMT)
Updated the Oblivion prices, and most of them are just barely different from what's listed for the PC price, not sure if the PC prices need updated or what. The Skyrim ones have already been updated and are correct. — ABCface 06:02, 5 October 2013 (GMT)
Hmm, no they haven't. :P Skyrim:Hearthfire and Skyrim:Dawnguard still show MS points, as do Oblivion:Knights of the Nine, Oblivion:Fighter's Stronghold, and the others. What did you update? --Morrolan (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2013 (GMT)
Alright I found what you updated (the main official add-on pages) and have updated the individual pages for the add-ons as well now. :) The US and Canada prices appear to be the same, hopefully someone will add UK/euro/other prices as well. There's an impressive selection of currencies given in the Steam prices listings. --Morrolan (talk) 14:21, 5 October 2013 (GMT)
I'm not sure I like the inclusion of historical MS points pricing in the infoboxes (i.e. "was 400 MS Points"), which I think should be limited to current info. If we really need to document this, a better place may be in the Notes sections. --Xyzzy Talk 15:04, 5 October 2013 (GMT)

() There's precedent for that, I was just following the example at Oblivion:Knights of the Nine. --Morrolan (talk) 16:04, 5 October 2013 (GMT)

Well, it's completely irrelevant information now, so I think it should prolly be removed. --AN|L (talk) 17:20, 5 October 2013 (GMT)
Sorry, I did only check the main pages for official add-ons, not the individual add-on pages. My bad. It appears from this discussion that you've all taken care of things though, so I suppose I'll just sit here and be unhelpful. :) — ABCface 19:54, 5 October 2013 (GMT)
I was asking this on your talk page, ABC, cuz I was hoping to get your opinion on it. Do you think the "was xxx MS Points" should be left in the infoboxes? --Xyzzy Talk 05:28, 6 October 2013 (GMT)
Personally no, I think if it's left on the pages at all it should be in the Notes section. The infobox is for relevant notable information only. — ABCface 05:57, 6 October 2013 (GMT)


Hi ABC. I'm curious about this edit summary. What "highlight" are you referring to? I compared the way the two links operate and can't tell the difference. --Xyzzy Talk 04:32, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

Look at the background of the icon image. In this one, it's highlighted, in the other it's not. — ABCface 04:39, 7 October 2013 (GMT)
Are you talking about the background of File:SR-icon-clothing-RaggedTrousers.png on the Clothing page? Neither one is highlighted in my browser. It might be a setting or the skin that I'm using, though. --Xyzzy Talk 04:54, 7 October 2013 (GMT)
She is referring to the light blue (#efefef) highlight when a particular link anchors to that cell in the table. See {{Highlightable Entry}}. ~ Psylocke 05:02, 7 October 2013 (GMT)
Ok. I see it now. The highlighting is so slight in my browser that I had never noticed it before. Thanks to you both. --Xyzzy Talk 05:06, 7 October 2013 (GMT)



What highlight are you talking about there? The two links point at the exact same thing. --Morrolan (talk) 13:30, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

See the section above. — ABCface 14:11, 7 October 2013 (GMT)
lol I'm channeling my inner Xyzzy apparently. I'll fix the redirect to point at the location with the highlight. --Morrolan (talk) 14:25, 7 October 2013 (GMT)
The redirect is fine as is. For the named items on that page which have multiple IDs, they are meant to not be highlighted by default, and be highlighted when the specific ID is used in links. — ABCface 14:29, 7 October 2013 (GMT)
The highlight affects the image, which is the same image for both of the IDs given on that page. --Morrolan (talk) 14:31, 7 October 2013 (GMT)