Skyrim talk:Ebony Blade Victims/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Ebony Blade Victims discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

The Usefulness of this page?

For what purpose is this page? As the introductory sentence says, this information is highly subjective, and, as far as I am aware, there has never been a page of this kind before. Was there a discussion I missed on creating this page, and if so, may I be directed to it so that I can read it? I am curious to the logic behind this page. In my opinion, this is more suited to a userspace, at best. ESQuestion?EmailContribs 23:36, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

There was a few bits of edit warring then a discussion both at Ebony Blade and User_talk:Velyanthe. The Silencer has spoken 00:01, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. ESQuestion?EmailContribs 00:03, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I know I'm late to the party, but I strongly suggest that this be merged with the Ebony Blade page. As Snowmane pointed out, we very rarely (if ever, I can't think of an example) have pages like this that are separate from the object/person/location page. There's really no reason for it to be separate, and I think people will find it more helpful to have all the Ebony Blade information on one page. Are there any objections to this? eshetalk 14:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, yes there are. If you'll look at the talk page for the Ebony Blade, you'll see. Personally, I agree with Eric. I think we should just get rid of this page and be done with it, a subjective thing like this really does belong on a userpage if it even belongs on the site at all, which I honestly don't think it does. But if we're not going to get rid of the page entirely, we're going to keep it separate from the main article. ThuumofReason 14:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
I did read the discussions, actually, so I understand there was a lot of disagreement over whether to include the section at all. I know from experience that it's difficult to maintain information like this, since people have a lot of different ideas about what makes a good target or what doesn't (OB:Useful Enchantments, for example, has always been like this). I'm not opposed to keeping the information since it seems a number of people are determined to keep adding to it, but I still don't see a reason for it to be kept separate from the article. If "it's too subjective and hard to maintain" is the reason everyone wants to go with, it should be moved to user space. eshetalk 15:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
That sounds good to me. I proposed the subpage as a compromise, but I would really rather it not be a page at all. If we have to keep it, userspace is the way to go I think. ThuumofReason 17:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Add 4 more victims

Kill Helvard of Dark Brotherhood quest. Have to become the thane of Falkreath b4 accepting the quest.

Gaius Maro of the quest Breaching Security (Dark Brotherhood). This one is "tricky", perhaps not many gamers know this. You have to become the thane of the city that you kill him (that he visits at the time) be4 accepting the quest to give you 1 charge. For me, I killed him while he was in Solitude, and I had already become the thane of Solitude. Having become the thane of the city that he visits will make him friendly to you, thus counts (as he is an officer).

Amaund Motierre of the quest Hail Sithis! "Possibly" need to become thane of whiterun b4 accepting the quest to give you 1 charge (unconfirmed but he gives you 1 charge anyway).

Nilsine Shatter-Shield of the quest Mourning Never Comes. Have to befriend his father Torbjorn Shatter-Shield b4 accepting the quest (do Torbjorn's 2 simple quests). — Unsigned comment by 175.143.160.20 (talk) on 8 April 2012

I can confirm that Amaund Motierre gives a charge (I heard Mephala's voice immediately I killed him). This is on PS3, I am a thane of Whiterun, I killed Amaund Motierre after telling him that the Emperor was dead. New Creation (talk) 22:17, 19 November 2013 (GMT)
Confirmed here too. Killed Motierre, used a spell to reanimate the corpse and killed him again and then heard Mephala's voice. Moinante (talk) 20:19, 23 December 2013 (GMT)

A way without killing a single named NPC

I've found a way to achieve the true potential of the blade without kill a single named NPC. Because it is a real new information and not a mere new-name-on-the-long-list I decided to adding it in the page and not only here in the edit page. I hope you will agree. But you know, I still consider myself a guest here. Agide 21:39, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

I removed the suggestion, because you can use the console to do that to any unnamed NPC, such as a Hunter, or Vampire, or any other. A note about using the console commands is unneeded as well because the console can be used for all, why not just set the blade to its max via console? It's not noteworthy. The Silencer speaksTalk 21:47, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, but I still do not understand why, if is it possible to use the console in this both ways, this informations are not written. The console shortcuts are mentioned in many pages, and I found them useful. Agide 22:13, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
You're right. If you keep it to the requirements such as what disposition level is needed, I can see no problem with that. Is it possible to just make the blade full via console as well? The Silencer speaksTalk 22:27, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Orc Stronghold

Everybody in Orc Stronghold are ideal targets for Ebony. They are simply worthless and if you need to enter another fort, you´ll simply pay sum for killing only one (bug, no witnesses) or no bounty at all. — Unsigned comment by 89.24.173.75 (talk) at 12:20 on 15 August 2012

Worthless they are not. Many are possible followers, trainers, and traders, while also they are entire communitys. They do not meet the guidelines of what qualifies. The Silencer speaksTalk 18:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

More victims from Daedric Quests, maybe?

(Please forgive my english, it's not my first language) I think the Ebony Blade Victims page is useful, at least for me and a lot of users who want to charge the ebony blade without going into a killing spree. :D I find specially useful using, ehem, victims the dragonborn must kill (since you want all the trophies, or achievements, or artifacts, or whatever) for the Dark Brotherhood quests, an others for Daedric Quests. I think a good candidate for this page is:

  • Brother Verulus, from The Taste of Death. (Since the dragonborn cleared the Hall of Dead for him, I think he can be considered friend, right? Of course, the dragonborn needs to kill him at the altar, so you can have Namira's Ring)

And that's all :( I'm not sure about the next victims, since I'm playing in PS3 and I can't see their disposition towards me -only when they're greeting me... and I sometimes they don't have time for that :P-. So, please, could somebody be so kind to confirm if these characters are viable -or not- as victims for the Ebony Blade?

-- 187.162.133.52 15:40, 24 September 2012 (GMT) Audrey Gally talk

Brother Verulus has been confirmed as not viable. Erandur and Sinding as a potential followers are not included. Chief Yamarz and Septimus Signus have nothing to which you can increase there disposition, but they have not been tested in-game. Logrolf must be killed with the mace, so cannot qualify. Vigilant Tyranus and Silus may be options, and they should be tested. Golden SilenceBreak the Silence 18:19, 24 September 2012 (GMT)
Thank you so much for the help, Golden Silence. Now I understand I should have investigated more, instead of just throwing the victims' names here, heehehehe! (Also, sorry for my mistake with Logrolf! I forgot! and thank you for correcting the links!) I'm planning on testing Vigilant Tyranus and Silus, but... how should I share what I find? I mean, if I find they're viable victims -or not-, you guys will only accept my word on that? XD or should I send pictures or video? (I'm very sorry if this is not the place to ask this, I'm trying to enter the UESP chat, but I can't :B My computer skills are not very bright, also I can delete this response if you want me to) Audrey Gally talk 22:34, 5 October 2012 (GMT)
Idolaf Battle-Born would be a good one. You can make him a friend by answering one question, though he's a bit hard to kill without anyone noticeing--Anil (talk) 22:12, 24 September 2012 (GMT)
True, but he doesn't qualify as a named person on this page as he doesn't do anything questionable, such as Silus's Mythic Dawn museum (he must be killed to get the daedric artifact as well}. Golden SilenceBreak the Silence 22:37, 24 September 2012 (GMT)
187.162.133.52: What's the trouble you're having with the chat? ChatSpike has been giving a few people problems the last few days, including our Javascript client, so it may not be your computer skills that are the problem. You can try using IceChat to connect, or instead of connecting to irc.chatspike.net, use 208.68.94.113 instead. That solution has worked for several people. Robin Hoodtalk 22:42, 5 October 2012 (GMT)
When I clicked in the link to "our java client", it said welcome to our channel, but the page was blank; then a message appeared saying it's missing a component (I guess is java). I clicked it again, and now it says "java security accesscontrolexception access denied". XP I want to install the irc client software, but I'm using Ubuntu, and I need to read instructions about how to install it (and it will take me a lot of time XD). I'll try to use that icechat you recommend, Robin Hood. Thank you so much for the help! :D Audrey Gally talk 23:38, 5 October 2012 (GMT)
EDIT: Vigilant Tyranus, Silus Vesuius, Chief Yamarz, are not viable victims, so I'll strike them out. I've already test them and no response from the blade. I understand you can hear the voice of Mephala every two victims, not just one, right? So, I timed my assasinations :P so every one of them could have been the second victim, and noup.
The blade didn't work with Erandur, so I'm guessing his disposition raises only after you allow him to destroy the Skull of Corruption... and to kill him after you lose the artifact, I think it isn't worth it.
I'm not sure if Sinding is a potential follower, since the uespwiki page says: "It is possible to find Sinding wandering Skyrim if you should choose to let him live. He will not attack you, but cannot be interacted with in any way." However, I killed him with the blade in order to have the Savior's Hide, and it didn't work.
I would like to add the information I got from the nice people in the uespwiki chat, since I think it's pertinent. About Jaree-Ra, he didn't work for me. In the chat, they talked about Jaree-Ra's disposition, and it looks like it's very difficult to kill him when he has a friendly disposition towards the dragonborn (I understood he's essential during his quest Lights Out!), but you can't advance in that quest until you kill his sister, and when you kill her, his disposition drops. The blade worked on Jaree-Ra for other user, so I'm guessing the right time to kill him is after he tells the dragonborn that Deeja is waiting for him at the Wreck of the Icerunner, but I'm just guessing and I can't test it now (and I can't remember the whole conversation, I should have wrote this before XP). Maybe more people would be so kind to confirm?
And yes, I think Nilsine Shatter-Shield should be added to the list, I tested ther too and the blade worked with her (of course, after doing the radiant quest for her father and completing Blood on the Ice). I understand that this page is not for killing every character just for laughts, it's to find viable victims that you must kill when you're doing missions, right? I believe Nilsine it's a tragic character, and she doesn't deserve to die... but, if you really want to have Muiri's Ring, then maybe you would like to take this opportunity. Audrey Gally talk 17:23, 19 October 2012 (GMT)
Talk is of no consequence when it has been confirmed in-game. No matter what difficulties people have understanding why Jaree-Ra is viable, he has nevertheless been confirmed as viable. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:39, 19 October 2012 (GMT)
Then I bugged my game... AGAIN! XP why, why it's so difficult to play, why... I'm writing about Jaree-Ra, because when I killed him, the blade didn't talk. Also, in the ebony blade page, it says the blade goes up to 14, then 18, 22, 26, until 30, but for me, I've killed 4 viable victims and the blade is still 13 damage. :( why can't all the games be perfection, why Audrey Gally talk 19:12, 19 October 2012 (GMT)
The base damage of the blade doesn't increase with the killings - it is the absorb health enchantment that increases. This is a little frustrating because the value of the enchantment is invisible, but the enchantment increases from 10-30 points of absorb health, through the values you mentioned before. --174.60.102.26 18:22, 20 October 2012 (GMT)
omg... really? then... I've been living a lie all this time! XP damn, I shouldn't read things in a whim... (and now I want to delete the whole contribution, since I feel it's not a contribution at all! I was wrong from the beginning :( I feel bad, I'll drown my sorrows in argonian ale...) Well, thank you very much 174.60.102.26 for helping me to understand :D (heehehehehe, addressing an ip, it reminds me of the lucy liu bot in futurama: "Oh, Fry, I love you more than the moon, the stars, the... POETIC IMAGE #36 NOT FOUND.") Audrey Gally talk 19:45, 24 October 2012 (GMT)

What about Valdr after you help him clear out Moss Mother Cavern? MidbossVyers (talk) 13:48, 10 March 2015 (GMT)

Ivarstead Jackpot

As I was visiting Ivarstead in order to complete "The Book of Love" for Mara, the idea occurred to me to use this quest to the advantage of my bloodthirsty sword. Since the quest involves a couple, I figured I could set them up, and then kill both of them, thereby pleasing both Mara and Mephala. Realizing that Klimmek had his own quest, I instead set Fastred up with Bassianus, killed both of them, then did "Climb the Steps" for Klimmek, killed him, and rounded it out by finding Narfi's sister for him, then killing him. I thought this was worthy of note, if not on the main page, at least in the discussion page, because it is such a concentrated location of good candidates (at least 4 in a town of what, 12 people?). This also helps me to maintain my character's personality while doing Mara's quest: as a self-serving power-hungry daedra-worshipper, he only seeks to unite these lovers in order to ultimately betray them while still receiving Mara's blessing. — Unsigned comment by 174.55.182.70 (talk) at 02:26 on 6 October 2012

Going out of your way to commit wholesale slaughter is not what this page is about. Narfi is on the page because he must be killed for a quest, and killing people, even after setting them up together is hardly in keeping with Mara's philosophies. The page is not for suggesting "innocent" people, but for people who lead somewhat questionable lives, and people who must die in order for a quest to complete. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 02:41, 6 October 2012 (GMT)
I don't get the impression that innocent people are off-limits for this page. There are several innocent people listed on the main page. And some people prefer to play evil characters - this is a viable option for gameplay and I don't think the page should be slanted toward either end of the spectrum. In fact, the blade itself and its maker are clearly evil, and I think that Mephala clearly intends for the blade to be used against people who don't deserve it. It feeds on betrayal, after all. I think the spirit of the quest is more along the lines of "wholesale slaughter" than justice. My good characters have avoided this quest, for that reason. My evil character only wants to use Mara and is really more lined up with Mephala's evil philosophies. Perhaps your character wants to retain some semblance of goodness while serving an evil prince, but don't shoot people down just because they make different choices. — Unsigned comment by 174.55.182.70 (talk) at 12:27 on 20 October 2012
The vast majority of people in Skyrim are 'innocent' and viable, this page would become so bloated with potential victims if we listed every single possible NPC in the game that is viable, that it would become impossible to read, manage or look at. Perhaps my summation was wrong in that there are 'innocent' people listed on the page (who have been listed as examples, not as people you must kill), but this is a page for hints and tips, not for a full comprehensive list that would contain at least 500 named NPCs (there are over 1000 named NPCs in the game). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 16:55, 20 October 2012 (GMT)

Worthlessness of Lucan Valerius?

I consider the article's statement that Lucan Valerius, the merchant trader in Riverwood, is completely worthless after the completion of 'The Golden Claw' to be somewhat wrong. Although it employs a glitch (and as I play an unpatched version of the game, I have no idea whether the glitch has been fixed) Lucan is extremely useful as his merchant gold reaches 12000 Septims after investing using the Investor perk from the speech skill tree.

Even without this, he still has an upper-tier gold supply with both of the relevant investment perks and as a general goods trader, is excellent for offloading treasure hauls. 2.220.85.17 07:25, 16 October 2012 (GMT)

"Less practical" does not equal "completely worthless". So far there has been no reliable reports that the glitch has been patched, and you are actively encouraged to look at each persons page before deciding on your victims. I shall add a small note of caution because this keeps being brought up. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 11:52, 16 October 2012 (GMT)
I also consider this opinion one of the most contentious on this page, considering Riverwood's easy accessibility to both Falkreath and Whiterun, and the location of Hearthfire's Lakeview Manor fairly close by. It also does not logically follow that Riverwood's vendors become less useful once Skyrim's hold capitals are discovered by the player, because at least part of the usefulness of merchants is their ease of access rather than...the fact that they live in capitals? For most players, Riverwood's merchants will be more useful than those in e.g. Markarth simply by virtue of Riverwood's central location in Skyrim and Markarth's abject isolation. Furthermore, any investment-capable merchant seems like a terrible candidate for the Ebony Blade, since merchants (other than the stall vendors with like 50 septims) retain their useful function at all stages of the game. To continue with the Riverwood example, once the player's Archery is above 50 or he has joined the companions, Faendal loses basically all use, while Sven really never has one. In contrast to someone who can regularly take 1500 septims worth of any type of junk off your hands, and thus forms the basis of the in-game economy, they are much more expendable. 50.46.201.99 02:54, 12 September 2014 (GMT)Holden
The glitch with Lucan was patched so he is no longer a special case. He is there merely as an example of a rural vendor (especially one that has been confirmed as viable). Anyway, it is only suggested that you kill either Lucan or Camilla, not both, which nets a point for the blade and retains the use of the merchant. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:13, 12 September 2014 (GMT)

Using a Staff of Dread Zombie - Needs verification

Making use of a Staff of Dread Zombie to reanimate a killed NPC - for the most part Narfi during the Kill Narfi quest - is my preferred way to charge the Ebony Blade. As I did not see this information in the article I suggest that it should be added. What level range of NPC's the staff will reanimate is unknown to me though, but I suspect that not all NPC's listed will be reanimated. Therefore I request verification by one more knowledgeable than myself, before adding this information to the article. Kerethos (talk) 20:10, 4 February 2013 (GMT)

The third paragraph is about the use of Reanimate, I will modify it so the use of staffs also available. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 20:22, 4 February 2013 (GMT)
It should probably be clarified that a staff does not cause the body to disintegrate upon death, meaning you'll only need to kill 1 NPC, as with the use of Dead Thrall or Vampire Servant. Kerethos (talk) 22:51, 4 February 2013 (GMT)

Expanding the part about necromancy

So I believe that everyone who reads this page will not figure out much of the way of using necromancy to trick the Daedra. Here's what I understand to work: 1. Killing somebody who trusts the protagonist. 2. Using a Staff of Necromancy, the power of Ritual Stone and the spell of Dead Thrall, reanimating the killed. 3. Killing that one again. 4. Repeating the steps until Mephala says the blade is returned to its former glory. Note: Using a Staff depends on the level of the target. Most targets are leveled and there is very little choice. Narfi, who is always Level 1, makes the perfect target.

I would suggest that we expand the passage, or we add a new section regarding this trick. This page is meant to aid players who want to play out the game loyally without using a lore-unfriendly exploit. Necromancy, like what Phinis Gestor said, is a tool to be used and this is just a good way to make use of the skill tricking a Daedra. Anyway, players will still have the discretion to choose to ues it or not, but it is only so when things are clear enough. -Joshua.yathin.yu (talk) 17:05, 8 April 2013 (GMT)

Well, I don't think the page is supposed to help players who don't want to use lore friendly exploits. We document all sorts of methods on here that are produced by bugs or don't make any "real world" sense, like standing on a forge to raise your destruction. It's your choice. And I don't see how the necromancy bit needs to be expanded. What more is there to say?--~The wind, forsaken~ (talk) 17:15, 8 April 2013 (GMT)
Just as this page doesn't describe how to use sword, maces, etc, it has no need to describe how to use necromancy. The method of necromancy enjoys a prominent position in the opening paragraphs, with three links to different types of the particular section of necromancy. Also stray dogs fall under Followers and do not belong on the page. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 17:56, 8 April 2013 (GMT)

Possible Disposable NPC in the Forsworn Conspiracy

During the Forsworn Conspiracy quest, I got one charge on the Ebony Blade during the combat in Nepos's house. I'm not sure which of the NPCs killed there did it as the fight was rather chaotic and I killed a few in very quick succession--only one charge between them, though. 70.137.135.1 06:26, 11 June 2013 (GMT)

New NPC category: Racists

If no one disagrees within a few days I'm going to add the "racists" category to the enemies section and attempt to fill it with more people than just Rolff Stone-Fist. However precedent has already been set by having only one person in multiple of these categories anyways.--69.136.59.17 06:57, 27 July 2013 (GMT)

EDIT- I stupidly didn't check to see that he was essential. Though if I find any other blatant racists I still plan on adding the section. I know I'm not the only person who would kill them if need be.--69.136.59.17 07:00, 27 July 2013 (GMT)
I disagree with that. Racism does exist in The Elder Scrolls games, but determining who is racist over simple xenophobia is too subjective, just look at how hotly debated the subject is around Ulfric to see how it is just not clear enough to simply go branding people as racist. There is simply not enough evidence to brand people as racist when their prejudices have existed for centuries. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 07:22, 27 July 2013 (GMT)
The NPC Categories consists only of data that can be found in the Creation Kit, things like race, gender, location, faction data, etc. Like Silencer said, Things like racism is to subjective to give accurate data and that's not the purpose of the NPC Categories section. There's not even a quest dealing specifically with people who are racists, so having a category like that doesn't really serve a purpose. --Darkheart (talk) 07:51, 28 August 2013 (GMT)

Bend Will Shout

Can using the Bend Will Shout from Dragonborn be useful for charging the Ebony Blade? The description states that the shout turns NPC's and creatures into Allies (Rank 2), but I haven't actually tested it myself yet. --Darkheart (talk) 21:09, 11 August 2013 (GMT)

Morally questionable people

Has anyone tried Sibbi Black-Briar? It seems like you'd have to complete both Promises to Keep (to make him nonessential) and The Lover's Requital (to actually raise his disposition) first, but then would it work?

What about Madanach and his Forsworn, if you sided with them during No One Escapes Cidhna Mine? Or Thonar Silver-Blood, if you sided against Madanach? - Crusader's Amour

Has anyone tried powering the blade on random Thief encounters?

If you hand over your gold they appear to become friendly.--RumblePen (talk) 07:01, 20 April 2014 (GMT)

Skyrim:Deeja

Killing Deeja didn’t work for me. Can someone confirm whether she powers the blade up? Morgoth Bauglir (talk) 22:53, 23 April 2014 (GMT)

I personally tested nearly all the named people on the page when it was created and Deeja was included. I was sure I'd retested Deeja after someone else questioned her, but I can't find it anywhere. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 23:18, 23 April 2014 (GMT)
Are you sure that it just happened that it wasn't want of the kills where the blade speaks to you? It only talks and upgrades every two kills. --AN|L (talk) 23:21, 23 April 2014 (GMT)
Thanks for the replies. What happened was the following: I killed Deeja, then I killed Jaree-Ra, then I resurrected him and killed him again and got the message. If Deeja had counted, I would've gotten the message at Jarees's first death. It could have been a one-off thing though; TES is not exactly known for its lack of bugs. Morgoth Bauglir (talk) 02:08, 24 April 2014 (GMT)

Userfy Page

I propose that we userfy this page because it is highly subjective and content similar to this is really never documented on the wiki. ~ Ad intellige (talk) 04:17, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

I disagree, this page was made to keep the item page 'clean'. If you look at the history of the item page people want this information documented. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 10:14, 12 July 2014 (GMT)
I would be in support of userfying this page, it's way too subjective. It really just boils down to "these people are useless and/or die as parts of quests anyway, so they make good targets." We can list that as a single note on the main page with one or two illustrative examples; any more than that invites a whole slew of subjectivity which, as Dom said, is not what gamespace is for. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 12:26, 12 July 2014 (GMT)
You can't just list 'one or two' examples on the page, we've already seen the mess it leads too. We are not a pure wiki, we should aim to provide information that users want and need, which this page does. Removing it removes information that is clearly desired and all we'd be doing is telling people to look elsewhere which is a wholly egregious idea. This page is in the hints section so its subjectivity is allowed, just as the money making or useful potion pages are. The page already passes the 'desired' aspect of any review, so a proper argument needs to be made rather than just subjectivity. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 12:41, 12 July 2014 (GMT)
I'm not sure what you mean by us not being a "pure" wiki, this is a site anyone can edit, so it's a wiki. I wasn't aware it could go half-way. This isn't a proposed deletion either, we're just proposing that it be moved to Userspace. I would also contend that subjectivity is a very good argument. NPCs who die anyway and/or are weak and easy to kill without incurring bounties are what I would consider good victims; a Thalmor agent, who's not only skilled in combat but almost impossible to kill quickly and quietly enough to avoid a bounty, is not. His note even mentions this, and yet someone thinks he'd make a good target - ergo, subjective. It's been proposed before that this be moved to userspace, so it's not like Dom is the first one to suggest it either.
This is just my opinion of course, the page isn't so important to me that I'm going to fight tooth and nail to make sure that it goes the way I want it to go. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 12:57, 12 July 2014 (GMT)
The only argument ever used against this page is 'I don't like it.' Useful Potions is extremely subjective, moreso than this page will ever be. The only subjectivity on this page is implied anyway (as in they are named on the page), each NPC is tested and given a how and when they become viable, there is no suggestion that anyone is a better target than anyone else beyond them simply being named here. Regarding Ondolemar, he is listed because he can be used, subjectivity would be leaving him off because he is difficult to kill cleanly. That's what this page lists, people who can be targets and will die anyway, or people who lead lives that are 'questionable' as defined by normal societal habits (i.e. vampirism and cannibalism are both reviled by society). There are very few more options that could end up here (such as named people during the Civil War which doesn't seem to have been tested), so this list is almost complete.
Userfication requires moving it into the userspace of the editor who created it, and if it is moved there I will request its deletion, so either someone else needs to volunteer to keep and maintain it, or it should just outright be deleted and a notice placed telling people to go elsewhere for the information they want. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 13:15, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

() I think it should be kept. The argument that we don't document that sort of thing in the wikispace doesn't hold water; we have Useful Potions, Permananent Items, and Making Money, for example. Useful Potions and Making Money are just as subjective as this article, and Permanent Items contains information that arguably few users are interested in, but yet they all are still in wikispace. And then you have the Easter Egg pages... I often fail to understand these deletion arguments, its not as though the wiki has limited space for pages and I don't buy the argument that its "brought down" in some way by having pages such as this. --AN|L (talk) 14:05, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

I'm also opposed to userfying this. Its subjectivity is perfectly within the style of Skyrim:Hints, and I personally find it to be a very helpful page. —Legoless (talk) 17:36, 12 July 2014 (GMT)

Owned Horses

Maybe the page should include owned horses, as there is effectively an unlimited supply of them and killing them isn't counted as murder. --73.53.101.124 19:30, 3 September 2014 (GMT)

Killing owned horses won't charge the Blade though, since you don't necessarily become friends with them. Dog followers are out too. Don't think it would work on any creature. Enodia (talk) 13:44, 1 November 2014 (GMT)

This is mistaken. I have repeatedly been able to charge the blade by killing Stump, the dog who lives in riverwood. Using dead thrall or the Ritual power you can fully charge the blade without killing a single "real" NPC

Destroy the dark brotherhood

Killing Astrid in the shack gives me no charge for the blade (The FriendsKilled_var stays the same). Did anybody test this? The other brotherhood members at the sanctuary do give charges however. 13:45, 13 Feb 2015 (CET)

Astrid worked for me, in fact using the ritual stone I charged the blade up fully with just her over and over. PS3 btw 11:58, 09 Nov 2015

Sybille and Nilsine

Sybille Stentor should be added to the Vampires section, if you do her vampire hunting quest. Also, I confirmed that completing Blood on the Ice does not increase Nilsine's disposition, at least, on my game. Her disposition still reads 0. MidbossVyers (talk) 00:50, 2 March 2015 (GMT)

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