Oblivion talk:Unfriendly Competition

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On the Xbox version, I've encountered a bug where Agarmir seems to never leave his house. The error occured on two different characters. I tried waiting outside his house one hour at a time for a total of 48 hours, as well as whiling away a good 20 minutes of real time running around the plaza, but he doesn't leave. -- Del 17:25, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

Yeah I had this too, but once I looked to the left I could suddenly enter. Don't ask me why. - Thingey


I think the quest rewards vary by level because my ring wasn't as good I believe, but I can'd verify. Anyone? --MItchy 01:34, 27 March 2006 (EST)

Endareth 01:21, 27 March 2006 (EST) Weatherward Circlet was what I received also, did this around level 10.

Oh that was the name of the thing yeah, but I could've sworn it was onlt 10%, I did this quest at level 1. --MItchy 01:34, 27 March 2006 (EST)

I did this quest at level 1 or 2 and I got the 25% ring --Merlin 03:23, 27 March 2006 (EST)

I created a new character and did this quest at level 1, the ring was 10%, and Debaser drains Willpower and Endurance for 5 pts for 20 sec on strike.

I did it again with a level 6 character and the ring was 15% and the Gold reward was 200gp Grim Retort did 10pts of frost damage. --MItchy 11:03, 29 March 2006 (EST)

I had to follow Thoronir to the pub and wait for 2 hours before he walked to the garden. -DavidC

  • I had this problem as well, so i'm adding it to the page. - Crazymoon

Another example of how awkward the "intelligence" in Oblivion is. I watched Thoronir and Agarnir the whole night with nothing happening. The quest logic is clearly inferior and makes me not want to play the game. FMan 12:10, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

GOTY: oblivion xbox 360. i waited for Thoronir and Agarnir in the gardens for 30mins, bt nothing happens wot so ever!! helpppppp

Sounds like you need to read the first bug on the page. That sounds like your problem. --RpehTalk 09:25, 28 September 2007 (EDT)
No this quest is clearly not functioning as intended. I have attempted this at least half a dozen times with each of three different characters. You cannot get close enough to Thoronir and Agarnir in the garden to "sneak up close to the conversation". Before you get close enough to hear anything, they "see" you and either threaten you or depart. The quest never updates past this point. If I continue waiting without attracting their attention, the quest still does not update. Thoronir then leaves to open his shop. If I follow Agarnir, he absolutely does not "lead you to his own house located near Talos Plaza", he instead wanders aimlessly all over the city, doubling back on his trail multiple times and stopping to speak to everyone who crosses his path. If I follow him long enough, he leads me back to the garden to meet Thoronir again. This is stupid. This and the other broken quests, like the one with the unkillable regenerating painted trolls who move and attack three times as fast as you and do three times as much damage at all levels, and the slaughterfish quest that requires over 16 hours of real (not in-game) time to complete, are quite enough to make me want to chuck the DVD in the bin. 04:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

All of these missions work perfectly for me. Firstly; you don't need to remain hidden to hear them speak, as it would be very hard for non-stealth oriented characters to sneak up to them without potions or scrolls, just walk up to them and it will trigger the conversation and the update. Secondly; I have no trouble killing the painted trolls, with the application of damage enchantments (fire are the best), poisons and turpentine, I find it easy to kill them on the middle difficulty, if you can't do it then slide the difficulty to the left. Thirdly; I have no idea what you're talking about, I have never run into a problem with this mission. In conclusion; with a game the size of Oblivion you can't expect all the side quests to function perfectly, so it's up to you to work around it (the only quest with bugs I have Real trouble with is the cure for Vampirism quest), most of your supposed "bugs" seem your problem not the games.

there is a problem or error with this quest plz help[edit]

when i get the the point where i go into agrmir house to see the shovel and manifest the police comes to the house and try to arrest me ! isnt this a quest and the police shouldnt come? also when i choose resist arrest and i run to armando or whatever the guy from the theives guild who give me the option to pay him and he clear my criminal recored .. i pay him and go but when i meet police i am still being chased even when i go back to that guy from the theives guild i find that my criminal records are really clear then why am i being chased so i am stuck ! — Unsigned comment by Ramymounir (talkcontribs)

Being on a quest doesn't generally give you the license to commit a crime... you still need to sneak when you're breaking into a house. I'd suggest when the guards start chasing, yield to them (put away any weapons, hit the block key, and talk to them). They're probably chasing you at this point because you resisted arrest, not because you have a bounty any more. --Nephele 19:42, 17 September 2006 (EDT)

Another Bug[edit]

After I did the battle and talked to Thoronir, I tried to get my reward from Jensine. She didn't give it to me. After the conversion, She kept telling me that I was suppose to give her something. From a pervious play I knew she was suppose to get the journal and shovel during the conversion. But this didn't happen and I can't give her the items from my inventory. It does show them when your talking to her. You try dropping them it tells you you can't drop quest items.

Not a bug[edit]

I had this same problem! It's not a bug though, but an interface issue. When you talk to Jensine there's a "Thoronir" conversation option but you have to scroll down the list of options to see it. (Look for the scroll-bar on the left: instead of just two arrows, there will be a grabbable box on the bar connecting the arrows.)

This drove me insane for a few hours. I thought it was a script bug. I got pretty good at defeating Agarmir after trying a dozen different orders in which to complete each stage of the quest. —"Tobias" the Bosmer monk ( 00:43, 15 December 2006 (EST))

omg!! thanks so much, ive been lookin all over for some info on this issue, i thought it was a bug too. i thinck id never figured it out. thanks u rule!!!!!!

I can see "Thoronir" topic instead (using a modded UI), but once I click there, nothing happens: she just says that it's better for him (Thoronir) to have no knowledge about where his goodies come from, otherwise guards will have his head, but I get no reward from her, being stuck in the "don't you have something for me?" ending dialog. I've followed step by step the main page about this quest, but looks like the only way I can complete it is via console. On a side note, I've met the "Agarmir is essential" bug too, and in order to procede the quest I've tried both workarounds described in that section, but still no luck with my ending reward from Jansine, so I decided to stop feeling pain using the console: "setstage MS29 150" to complete the quest, "SetQuestObject 0001D0AF 0" to get rid of the shovel, "SetQuestObject 0001D046 0" to get rid of the book. (Hope being usefull, sorry for my eniglish)

Agarmir, etc[edit]

He never left the house. but you know he isn't there because when you go up to the door it will tell you it is barred from the inside if he is home.

My problem is I can't get Calliben's Grim retort. I think I can see it back there but no matter how I jump I can't grab it. I'm on a PC.

Just add it to your inventory using the console. I'm not sure of its ID, but you can search it 00:54, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi! Well, if you are playing the PC version and you have to resort to using the Console Command Window, use the command "TCL" to walk through the wall to grab it instead! Whenever I can't grab it the expected way, that's what I do. When I played on my brother's X-Box version, or whatever it was, I couldn't just grab it either. I had to go into sneak mode first, then run and jump into the tiny airspace to grab it! Then back out. Only once, way back when, was I ever able to simply grab it by clicking on it. Ever since then I've had to cheat to get it, because it is placed just out of reach. Hmm. That first time was while playing as an Imperial Male. Every time since then has been as one form of female or other. So maybe gender height makes a small difference? --- Leo Star Dragon 1. P.S.: With the PC version, you can visit the warehouse in the Testing Hall with the wooden door marked as "Wooden Door to..." There are two such doors. One lets you meet the NPC named "Vamp Chow" and grants access to the Vampire Gravestones. The other has crates full of each type of item including one for weapons that includes another "Caliben's Grim Retort", in case you loose the regular one. LSD1. (EDIT: Oops! Those Vampire Gravestones have clickable functions. One makes you a "beginning vampire" (I forget the actual term) and the other one makes you a complete vampire with all powers, et cetera.) Leo Star Dragon 1 01:47, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Bug: Agarmir is essential[edit]

I don't know how, but when I got to the mausoleum, Agarmir was essential, making it impossible to finish the quest (or get out of the mausoleum). I don't have any of the mods that make him essential part of the time, so I have no idea how he got that way. I eventually fixed this with "SetEssential 0001fc54 0" in the console, a command which incidentally is not on the Oblivion:Console page. — Unsigned comment by (talk)

I'm moving this similar comment here from the main article:

Sometimes, for unknown reasons, Agarmir doesn't stop being an essential NPC (i.e. he can not be killed) as you enter the mausoleum. After you have killed the hireling and struck Agarmir unconscious, he will not attack you when he stands up again. If you talk to him he will have the same monologue as earlier, but after it he will not attack you. You will have to take the shovel and then pickpocket him for the mausoleum key in order to get out. You can then take the shovel to Thoronir and go on as you usually would to complete the quest.

Agarmir is never an essential NPC, so I don't see what would trigger these bugs. Without any explanation for how this bug could occur, I don't think it belongs in the main article. Documenting random, unreproducible bugs doesn't help readers, because it's impossible to provide advice on what to do to avoid the problem. --NepheleTalk 03:53, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

This "random" bug happened to me too eheh, my very humble advice is just to put that SetEssential info on a note in the main page. Anyway I'm looking for the cause of the bug. If I catch it I'll post the solution with pleasure :)

Sneak Mode[edit]

Make sure you're in Sneak mode when picking Agarmir's door. Otherwise, the guards will bust you.

Uh... that's common sense. Unless you mean no matter what they catch you. Crowbar 15:17, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Can't Return to Tomb[edit]

Okay, I messed up and struck Aragmir first... a guard rushed in and hauled me off to jail and now the Trentius tomb will not open and says I can only open it with a key. If anyone knows where I can find this key... or is this now unfinishable. Thanks. What I don't get is if the door was locked behind me... how did the guard know I hit him first. haha

The same thing happenede to me. I couldn't kill him so I shot him in the head thinking I could do 3x damage....didn't work. I got hauled off, now, 20 hours later I return to finish the quest and I can't get back in. Is there a way to cmomplete the qest? Some magickal spell? Please help.

Sorry but unless you're on the PC I think you're out of luck (if you're on the PC, it's easy to fix: open the console, click on the door, and type unlock). The door to the mausoleum only gets unlocked briefly right when you enter the mausoleum. To get through the locked door, you're supposed to get the key to the tomb off of Agarmir's corpse after you kill him. That's the only copy of the key in the game, and if you're on the outside and Agarmir's on the inside I don't see any way to get it. And yes, NPCs like guards can just ignore locked doors. But the player can't. --NepheleTalk 03:25, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

The same happened to me. All you have to do is return to a previous save point (go to load in the start menu) and re-start the quest. Its a pain to re-do everything but its better than having an unfinished quest.

Xbox 360 or PC?[edit]

The first note in the "notes" section has two tips, one or the xbox version and another for the xbox 360 version. Since there is not (at least yet) a regular xbox version of Oblivion, should one of those tips be a PC notes and the other an Xbox 360 note, or should they both be for the 360? --WerdnanoslenTalk 18:23, 12 January 2007 (EST)

I would vote to delete both "On the Xbox" and "In the Xbox 360 version". I know of no cases where game play issues like this are different between the PC and Xbox 360 versions. I'm pretty sure it's just that the people who contributed these tips happened to be playing on Xbox 360. In several other cases, such comments have later been confirmed by PC players (and vice versa). I think all such phrases should be deleted unless there is reason to believe that there is a platform-specific issue; it just encourages other readers to think that there are gameplay differences between the two platforms. --Nephele 18:35, 12 January 2007 (EST)
Great, thanks for the fast response. Sadly I don't have the PC version to cross-check this myself =(. --WerdnanoslenTalk 18:39, 12 January 2007 (EST)

The Late Agarmir's House[edit]

I'll skip for a moment the question of why taking things from his house is "stealing" after you've justifiably killed Agarmir. (After killing him and his crony from hiding the first time, I went back and let him attack me just to be sure the kill was proper.) Maybe he left a will or something and it all belongs to his illegitimate son, Boxy.

What I'm wondering is, once Agarmir is dead, is his house yours to use? Will stuff dropped there be safe? If so it seems like a pretty smooth way to get a house in town.

Also, is there any way to use his key to LOCK his door? Don't want any good-for-nothing thieves breaking in after all...

Albatross 22:20, 20 February 2007 (EST)

See the similar discussions at UESPWiki:Reference_Desk#Acquring_Glarthir.27s_House_in_Skingrad and Oblivion Talk:Glarthir. Basically, no, it is not a safe place to leave equipment. --Nephele 22:33, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Can't even open his home[edit]

I tried the open average lock spell but it did work but the door itself is locked from the inside.--ShakenMike 17:30, 24 February 2007 (EST)

That means that he is home. Read Agarmir's House. You have to wait for him to leave. --GuildKnight 00:10, 25 February 2007 (EST)


Thoronir first visits a tavern, and stays there for quite some time. Wouldn't it be better to just wait outside the tavern until 11:00 or so? He left the tavern at about 12:15 for me. It was the Merchant's Inn.

Agarmir Kill[edit]

If you kill Agramir before the quest what happens?

I did it too. You can't do the quest:(


Ok, so I successfully break into Agamir's house and his basement and discover the muddy shovel. However, the Macabre Manifest just doesn't show up... I can't find it anywhere... is this a bug?

The shovel you need is not in his basement but in the mausoleum further into the quest. In his basement is a table with the Manifest sitting on it.

      • I'm having the same problem. I talked to shopkeep, got the quest to follow him after he closes up shop. Followed him from the bar to the garden, then followed Agamir to his house, waited till 6pm, he finally left. I broke into his house, went down into the cellar, see the shovel, see skulls and bonemeal and tunics and a bunch of gray bags... but no books. I see the desk with all the candles, and nothing else. What's the deal? Why can't I see this book? (PS: I'm on a PS3)

HE DEAD[edit]

omg!!! i could never figure out why agarmir wasnt commin to the garden but then i roamed the streets and found him dead by merchants inn.... im pretty sure the guards killed him b/c i didnt (glitch?)


When i follow thoronir to the garden behind his shop. Argamir never comes. I waited for 30 mins (real time) and he never came. is there any way to walkaround this?

Yet Another Bug[edit]

When I was in the mausoleum, I killed Argamir and the guard. (Guard was first) When I killed Argamir I received the message saying "One of the characters needed to complete this quest, has died" I pick up the shovel (And got the update) and go back to Thoronir but there isn't a topic other than Rumors. Could setstage work help me here? I have the latest patch and OOO on. KestralTalk 14:47, 22 August 2008 (PST)

I think you killed Agarmir and Rolgarel before you got the update ("I've located Agarmir inside the Trentius Family Mausoleum. It appears as though he's attempting to desecrate another grave along with someone else I don't recognize. I need to convince him to stop this heinous act."). You might be able to work around this by using the console command setstage MS29 90 and then talking to Thoronir, or perhaps 110 and then talking to Jensine. Your best bet would be to reload and wait a little longer before attacking. –RpehTCE 01:46, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

I probably did, but I didn't go right in the mausoleum and kill him right away, I stood there and waited for him to talk to me. After he finished we started the fight. I never got the update, and I killed Argamir last. And I did try using setstage, Jensine just said that she usually said about Thoronir after you complete the quest, no gold. KestralTalk 12:13, 23 August 2008 (PST)

The Tomb Won't Let me in[edit]

Plain and simple. When i get to the Tomb where i should encounter Argamir and his guard, i got to activate the door, and nothing happens. I mean, it wont let me go through! What does one do? — Unsigned comment by (talk)

First, make sure you are on the accurate quest stage (the "I noticed that the door has been opened" one, after you hand the book you found in Agarmir's house over to Thoronir) and in front of the right activateable tomb (the one with a normal wooden door, not the map of Cyrodiil). If you are on the PC, you can use the console command unlock. There have also been times when getting arrested can force Agarmir to spawn outside of the prison, but not always. Vesna 19:11, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

where is the tomb/graveyard[edit]

i cant seem to find it, help — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 7 October 2008

Either follow the quest marker, or check this map. --Timenn < talk > 03:21, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

2 Debasers[edit]

There is a way to get '2' Debasers, And I swear there is. When I first followed Agarmir to his house I can pickpock his Debaser, and I did.So when I waited a couple of levels (because I was low leveled and I wanted good armor). When I entered the mausoleum I thought Agarmir don't got his Debaser, but instead he had a NEW ONE!, a Better one to. very weird... ps. I was playing on the xbox that time. — Unsigned comment by (talk)

If verified this should be in the article.
Probably because Debaser is a leveled sword.Marcel 02:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

The Copious Coinpurse as a store after the quest[edit]

Does completing this quest affect the store's inventory or prices in any way? --DerSquirrel 19:59, 13 March 2009 (EDT)

It doesn't influence the inventory in any way but it can affect the prices indirectly, since Thoronir will gain a disposition boost towards you, which will help bartering. --SerCenKing 11:40, 16 March 2009 (EDT)


(I didn't know which section to put this in, so I placed it at the bottom) A "closed fist" icon occurs when any of the monuments/sarcophagi are approached. Is there a way to activate them? Was there supposed to be, but never actually completed? Not sure if it's possible to tell something like that from the script (I'm on a PS3). 09:30, 23 April 2009 (EDT) Marcus

The 'closed fist' icon you are referring to is the 'activate' icon, which is...activated by the 'grab' button. The sarcophagi cannot be opened like a normal container nor can they be activated in any way; nor is there any scripting. They are just there to give the mausoleum a 'tomb' atmosphere. --SerCenKing Talk 18:01, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
Thanks, although I still find it a bit odd that the icon appears at all, given that so many other atmospheric sceneries (countless coffins, statues, etc.) in the game are just that -- scenery -- with no interaction hinted at whatsoever. Still, I appreciate the response. 10:29, 4 May 2009 (EDT)Marcus
Yeah, you're not alone in thinking that that's a bit odd. I've always wondered if maybe they meant to do something in there, but never completed it. The evidence is far too weak to deserve mention on the Unfinished Quests page, but it could well be a "Very Unfinished Quest". :) --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 15:55, 4 May 2009 (EDT)

Hi! I've noticed that those same icons appear on the road signs when you get close enough to "activate" them with a mouse click. I wonder if it just a reading thing of if maybe, they once intended for you to be able to use Fast Travel by clicking on a road sign too, or maybe seeing a map. (Like, "You are here!")Other graves with statue shapes also seem to do that though, unless I'm confused by this topic at this late hour? (12:36 A.M.) LSD1 ----- Leo Star Dragon 1 02:33, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Agmir's Basement (PS3)[edit]

I go into his house and there is no evidence!

Ditto (XBox)

I did pickpocket Agmir before he got home. Have given the game days to for it to show up. Still nothing. Maybe I'll pickpocket the key back again.


agmair or wat his name is never showing up in the garden behind thornia or wat eva his names store and im realy anoyed i was on waiting 4 bout half a hour and agmair didnt show up any 1 help?

That damned shovel.[edit]

Out of curiosity, I picked up the shovel in the Mausoleum, THEN killed Agarmir and his buddy. Now, I have to somehow drop the shovel and pick it up again. Take notice that I picked it up before Agarmir could approach me and start talking. Help?

Killing graverobbers is a crime?[edit]

Just a quick heads up, if you charge into the tomb expecting a fight and you draw your bow, if you put an arrow in place, your bow will automatically shoot the arrow when Argamir tries to talk to you. Although this does not have a derrogatory effect on the quest, the Imperial Legionaries will hunt you down and force you to pay a fine for assault if he retaliates or murder if you kill him in one hit. This can often be aggrivating, as the guards will barge in while you are in the middle of getting the shovel. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 17 June 2009

I don't find that unsurprising. Attacking a citizen that is not yet considered to be a criminal is a crime. The fact that you use a glitchy method that circumvents the normal flow of the quest doesn't change that. --Timenn < talk > 09:24, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

Argamir never leaves his home (PC version)[edit]

This is the first time I've encountered this bug, though admittedly I've only done this quest once before (with no problems, mind you). I waited outside his home several times (3 hrs each), but he never seems to leave like the last time I played. I even took notice of when he WAS SUPPOSED to be gone, e.g. 8am-8pm on weekend, but he's always there!

I can confirm this bug is real on PC, tried to do the quest and I'm stuck at Agarmir house and he doesn't seem to follow his schedule at all. Tried all the possible schedule by waiting inside and outside of the Talos Plaza and nothing seems to work. I had to cheat my way out of the quest using console commands.
edit: I used the console command: coc ICTalosPlazaAgarmirsHouse to see what he was up to and he was bugged inside the door itself, unable to move at all, thus explaining why he wasn't respecting his schedule. Using this command solve everything since once my actor was in the cell, the NPC started to behave normally after I went outside and waited for his normal behavior to kick in. 17:23, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Thoronir will NOT accept Macabre Manifest[edit]

I completed this quest successfully using the instructions on this page. However, my friend attempted the same quest (using a different series of games - under a different user on XBox360) and he is stuck. I've helped him through the quest, I didn't notice anything odd or out-of-order happen. When he goes to Thoronir to give/show him the Manifest book, Thoronir keeps repeating the dialogue about 'outrageous claims,' 'you have no evidence' and 'get out of my store' (not an exact quote). Any help?

Details: We have the XBox Game of the Year edition. -When he went into Agarmir's house, he wasn't familiar with the controls for books. I think he picked up the Manifest and then chose to "set it down" rather than "take it." -He left the house, thinking he had picked up the Manifest and went to Thoronir in his shop. -Thoronir went into the 'you have no evidence' dialogue when he selected the 'from the dead' topic. -When we realized he didn't have the Manifest, I explained to him about the "take it" book controls. -He went back to Agarmir's house, found the Manifest, collected it, and returned to Thoronir in his shop. -The only relevant conversation topic ('from the dead' etc.) gives us the same dialogue about 'you have no evidence.' Yet we have the book, we've double-double checked!

This is the only thing I can think that might have affected the game, making it get stuck.

Any help would be appreciated, your site is very helpful. Thank you 02:08, 17 July 2009 (UTC)Annwyn

iam evil???[edit]

this only happened once i dont know why but when i went into agamirs house down to the basement after the update apears i dont think i took the book i left and talked to agamir he said i can join him i swear to god i can either join or fight him when i confront him about stealing from the dead as for thorin when i talk i can either go the normal way or black mail him HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE AND I DONT THINK IT HAPPENED TO ANY OF YOU ? — Unsigned comment by Mark iii (talkcontribs)

That's not a possible outcome for this quest, you must kill Agarmir for the quest to advance, you cannot join him. Ddraiggoch06 10:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
i know but am not lieing i saw it happen and only once its like right after i went inrto his basement and the update came i forgot the book and went out usualy when this happens he denies it but that one time he said i can either tell on him or join him not by diging graves but like sell stuff and i can black mail thorinier myabe its a glitch maybe a a bug or even a mod causethats when i started trying out mods for the game but i didnt find any mod like that and even till now it wont repeat itself — Unsigned comment by (talk)

Very good rewards[edit]

Why are there more rewards for this quest than most others, The Debaser, The Weaterwead circulit, Caliban's grim retort, and jensine's gold. why can this quest reward you so well, when others you only get some gold?

Agarmir Flees![edit]

After telling me it's a trap in the mausoleum, Agarmir's friend attacks me, but Agarmir just flees out of the mausoleum. So I killed the other guy then used the console to open the locked door and chased after Agarmir and killed him- but then I get arrested! Whyyy is Agarmir fleeing? How can I get him to be hostile so that I won't incur a bounty or get arrested?


Is it possible to get any of the nice items described in the macabre manifest?— Unsigned comment by TheElderScribe (talkcontribs) at 22:10 on 14 January 2010

No, well at least not the exact items. It's possible you acquire them in another way, since most clothing can easily be found elsewhere. Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 22:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Tirdas or Turdas?[edit]

(...talking about Agarmir's schedule...) "at the weekend (Loredas and Sundas) he is out from 8am until 8pm; from Morndas to Tirdas he leaves just after 4pm and returns after 8pm, and on Fredas he leaves at 5pm for two hours". I think there is a typo here, assuming the author wanted to cover all the days of the week. Tirdas is Tuesday. Turdas is Thursday. I 'll edit the page based on the assumption that the original author wanted to write: "from Monday to Thursday he ... and on Friday he ..." / I don't know myself Agarmir's schedule. 22:12, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

You're correct - I just checked. Thanks for changing it! rpeh •TCE 11:40, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Argarmir barricates himself home[edit]

Anyone had this problem? Happened to me and I guess it was because I confronted him with the situation and forgot to get the evidence to thoromir. Will he ever leave? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 19 March 2010

What stage of the quest have you reached? rpeh •TCE 11:39, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Thoronir's Inventory[edit]

The article says, "Despite Thoronir saying he gave all of his old inventory to the temple, he will have the exact same items for sale as before." This isn't quite true. His inventory is exactly the same immediately after you kill Agarmir, yes, but later (haven't timed it, a day or two) it does change; some items disappear and new ones appear, such as the blue silk pants/skirt. -- Wordmama 01:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That's just standard inventory resetting. The point is that immediately before and after his change, he has exactly the same items so hasn't done what he claims to have done. rpeh •TCE 06:36, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Fair enough. SkoomaManiac 02:48, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Okay, no biggie. That blue silk piece never appears in his inventory until after this quest is completed, but that's only one item, so it's not important. -- Wordmama 04:37, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Glitched Method[edit]

(moved from the article)

Save the game before you go into the Mausoleum. If you equip a minor spell like flare and shoot Agarmir before he talks to you a guard will run in the Mausoleum and arrest you. Serve your time in jail and when you get out Agarmir will be right outside the door. Talk to him and he will give the same speech he would normally. He will then attack you but guards near the jail can kill him. Get the Trentius Mausoleum Key off his corpse; this will not work without it. The guards will then run back to the Mausoleum to kill Rolgarel but they can't get in. Open the door with the key you got from Agarmir's body and go in. The guards may not follow you, so just get Rolgarel to come outside. Then let the guards kill him. This makes the quest much easier and allows players at lower levels to complete it without fear of being killed by Agarmir or Rolgarel.

At least one user says this doesn't work, and in my opinion relies on AI quirks and other stuff that won't always happen. If lots of people can get it working then it can go back on, but let's have a better headline for the article than "Glitched Method" please? rpeh •TCE 07:53, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Get Rolgarel to kill Agarmir[edit]

As an alternative to killing Agarmir yourself, casting a high-level Frenzy spell on Rolgarel before Agarmir initiates conversation with you will cause the two to start battling, usually resulting in Agarmir's death. This method does not break the quest--upon Agarmir's death, even if he never spoke to you, you'll receive the appropriate "Agarmir has been slain..." message. You can then collect your rewards from Thoronir and Jensine and finish the quest as usual. Rolgarel will remain in the Trentius Family Mausoleum indefinitely. (I lured him outside with the same Frenzy spell, but he simply walked back into the mausoleum after its effect wore off.) It's at least a mildly easier alternative to fighting the duo yourself. I've added it to the Notes section for now. -- Art 08:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


I have cleaned up this article to the best of my ability, alas, it could use another look. PLEASE give it another look. For now, however, I'll remove the Cleanup tag. SkoomaManiac 22:50, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Looks good. Thanks for the work! rpeh •TCE 06:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Unmarked Grave in Mausoleum[edit]

When you're in the Trentius Mausoleum, to the right of the door from entering there is an unmarked grave and if you jump up as if the mace was there, there appears to be two of the busts or whatever to the right a little and smaller then the original.

Anyone else notice this?

Cant go in.[edit]

i saw that guy argamir or something, en that other guy, i killed them before the atacked me, a gaurd arrested me and now i cant go back into that damn mausoleum :S --— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 19:34 on 19 October 2011

Agarmir's Premature Death![edit]

Hi! Okay, once before I was in the quest stage where I was meant to follow Agarmir to his home. However he paused right behind a Palace Guard, talked to the man, and then refused to continue walking. I waited and waited, and he wouldn't budge. Being invisible, I sneaked in to nudge the guard aside, but that didn't help. Nor did budging Agarmir. So then I came up with the idea of starting a fight by summoning Goblins to the scene. Sure enough, a fight did break out, the Humans won, and Agarmir resumed his walk so that I could follow him. The quest ended as it should have. Now a few more characters later, the same event happens. Agarmir is stuck behind a Palace Guard and refuses to budge. He didn't even talk this time, by the way. Other people stroll by and the two are still stuck in place. I summon the Goblins again, but this time both Palace Guards usually posted outside the main doors and Agarmir die! I get the message about how a character needed for the quest has died, and thus the quest is over. Out of curiosity, I saved the game at that point, with a name telling me he died, just to see what would happen next. Well, when I talked to both Jensine and Thoronir, they both behave and talk as if I completed the quest as it was intended to be! So there! That answers that question! Ahem. Now the lazy part of me wants to leave well enough alone, and continue on as is, while the thorough part of me wants to reload and do it right this time. Regardless of how I will go on, I just wanted to share that experience, to let others know that the World of Nirn does go on, as if you didn't break a quest. Albeit, sure the journal entry may be seen as, "immersion breaking", if you're into "immersion" that much. By the way, there is a mod out there that sets it up so that you can buy Agamir's home if you want. Well, that's all for now. Cheers! Happy Father's Day & Happy Summer! Leo Star Dragon 1 00:56, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Standstill, need help[edit]

Discussion moved from Help talk:Contents

For the quest line "unfriendly competition" you must wait for Agarmir to leave his house so you can go inside to look for evidence, right? Well I've been waiting outside his house for a good game day and an imperial watch guard has been posted outside between Agarmir's and Matthias Draconis' house and hasn't moved. Is it possible for me to still sneak by him without getting a bounty? It may be helpful to know that I've already done the quest to eradicate the Draconis family, so would that be why the imperial watch guard is posted outside the two houses? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:41 on 24 November 2012‎

cant get them to fight[edit]

I pickpocketed key and ran but got arrested and lost some of my UNSTOLEN soul gems after getting out of jail and now when I go to mausoleum he does his talk but wont fight. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 00:00 on 27 June 2013

another thing[edit]

after using a sneak attack to kill the first guy and once again being arrested, I attack the other one in same manor with a uncharged Mishaxhi's Clesver then run after he backs me into a corner and nearly kills me. I heal as I run and when guards do come they attack, him not me. I paused at that point to write this so don't know if I will be arrested yet, but other's should look at my two bugs and try to initiate them. it could be helpful. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 00:37 on 27 June 2013

If you leave with Rolgarel still hostile[edit]

I cast Eye of Fear on Rolgarel so that I could deal with Agarmir alone. After killing Agarmir I took his key and left. By the time I'd done that Eye of Fear had worn off, so Rolgarel followed me outside to kill me...and the guards did nothing about it. He was easy to dispatch because the circular nature of the palace area meant I could just run in a circle while pelting him with arrows, but still - is there something besides who started the fight that affects whether guards will help you? ----Crusader's Amour — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 21:46 on 2 September 2013

Agarmir's house[edit]

Okay, every time I try to break into his house, my sneak cross-hair says that I'm detected. I know that there is absolutely no one around that could see me, and my sneak isn't that low. I have the Jemane brothers and Martin following me, even though they're waiting for me around the corner. Are they somehow still detecting me, even though they can't even see me? Anastasia0812 (talk) 22:56, 27 February 2014 (GMT)

Complete the quest without fight[edit]

  1. As soon as you enter the tomb, turn to sneak mode and save your game.
  2. When agarmir is close enough, pickpocket his key before he talk to you.
  3. pickpocket another stuff and let him know that.
  4. And then, he can't talk to you himself anymore. So you don't have to fight or kill him. just take his shovel and get out of there.
  5. Complete the quest and get your reward

Guyde (talk) 10:27, 1 June 2014 (GMT)