Oblivion talk:Skill Books

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Uncategorized Talk[edit]

A good list of Skill Books can be found here: http://chorrol.com/oblivion_help_books.html Perhaps if someone has time, they could transfer the books we are missing to the list here?— Unsigned comment by LeifHawk (talkcontribs)

How is the table being organized? Numerical order by Form ID, alphabetical order by book title, or alphabetical order by skill (my preferred style for this)? It's mixed up no matter which way we choose. QuillanTalk 17:39, 30 April 2006 (EDT)

Personally i think that Alphabetised by skill would be the best way, the top half of the table already seems to have been done like this, but the bottom half seems pretty random. LeifHawk 07:36, 20 May 2006 (EDT)

Cleaned up, (mostly)[edit]

Well, I added all the missing books, ordered by skill, then alphabetical. All IDs are done, and most locations. Those books without locations listed seem to all be level-dependent loot or quest rewards. So it's somewhat unlikely that any one character could discover all of them, sadly. Anyhow, if anybody finds these other books as quest rewards, please fill them in, but keep in mind they may be level-dependant. Otherwise, I consider this page to be pretty much complete as is now.

As for IDs, a couple of them had the "after you pick it up" ID listed. I left them in, but I think perhaps they're unnecessary. First of all, don't ALL items get a different ID once you pick them up? And isn't it not always the same? And secondly, if you've already got the item, why would you need to know its ID anyhow? You can only get the skill boost once, so there's no need to cheat and give yourself multiple copies, even if you were planning on cheating just to get one.

Oh, the only other thing that's missing is the 2 and 3 notes saying whether finding some of these books involves tresspassing or theft. Somebody can fill that out if they know how to get that info. None of the ones I found had any ownership listed, so I'm not sure where that comes from. -- TheRealLurlock 16:26, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

Consistant Naming of Volumes?[edit]

Which is more important? Having the names be consistant, or having the names match what appears in game? Just asking, because in some cases, they're one way, and in some cases another. For example, the first 6 books of "A Dance in Fire" are labelled "A Dance in Fire, vX", with no space between the 'v' and the number. But volume 7 is labelled "A Dance in Fire, v 7", with a space. When I originally entered these in, I tried to stick to the names that appear in game, complete with inconsistancies like this. (Likewise, I didn't correct any typos in the texts of the books or anything like that. And there were quite a few.) I'm all for consistancy whenever possible, but if it's not consistant in the game, should this page reflect that, or does it not really matter? --TheRealLurlock 22:13, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

Attribute or Skill[edit]

This page uses attribute in alot of places where really it should be skill. Is there any reason for this choice? Is this a case of a Morrowind-to-Oblivion inconsistency? I'm changing the cases that are obvious (i.e. any cases that any reader can see), but I don't want to starting messing with the templates. Can anyone say whether this is just an inconsistency we have to live with, or is it something that can be / should be fixed?--Nephele 01:04, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

Pick up books without reading?[edit]

Is it possible to pick up skill books from shelves without reading them? In Morrowind I remember doing this, but I think you could have your inventory open and still interact with the world -- Oblivion does not let you do this (and I'm not sure a mod would enable it, even?). I have several unread skill books from quests or (I think) chests, but haven't figured out how to pick them up off shelves as yet... in shops, of course you can buy them, but I am talking about the Guild-"owned" books.

(Of course, while writing this I realized that I think I dumped several of those books on the ground -- no house yet -- so... just screwed myself over, there. Oh, well. I guess the console is usable, though it's not something I really feel like mucking with.)

In an unrelated note, is the drag key the only way to move dropped items around? It seems a bit unwieldy for positioning items sometimes... or is it more just a "practice makes perfect" type of thing? --previously added by Mithramuse

No, in Oblivion there's no way to pick up a book without reading it, except by using the drag key. (Possibly mods exist that change this, not sure.) The only way you can have a book in your inventory without reading it is if you found it in a chest or some other container (including on corpses), or if it was given to you as a quest reward or something. As for moving things around, yes, unfortunately the drag key is the only way. I wouldn't say that "practice makes perfect", though, as it's never really "perfect". You will get better at it, though. (At least Oblivion doesn't suffer from the same problem Morrowind had - where even picking up a blank piece of paper caused you to read it. Magical scrolls also are now lacking in readable text.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 09:15, 22 January 2007 (EST)
Thanks for the comment and confirmation. Main thing I would like to do is arrange books on a shelf like, well, books, but I'm not having a lot of luck with that. Then again, I don't have my own home yet so haven't spend all that much time working on it, either. In a way it'd be nice to have bookshelves be containers that automatically organize themselves... oh, well.

I now remember the "read everything" in Morrowind, like you said. I think I found it more funny at first, but it got more annoying later on.... --Mithramuse 22:40, 23 January 2007 (EST)
There's a mod available on the PC that gives you the option of taking the books that are on shelves and such without reading them right away. On TESNexus: https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/13994 - Save Skill Books For Later OBSE.
That mod seems to be just for skill books, not all books (like the ones decked across mages guild shelves.) Morrowind actually did this better, but...Well see in morrowind you could just open the menu up, move the windows about, and literally drag books one by one into your inventory, in zero gametime. Like, so long as you were sneaking when you opened the rightclick menu, anything you can grab and drag into your inventory is yours. 23:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Skill books at level 100[edit]

What happens if I read a skill book when the respective skill is already at level 100? Does the skill increase to 101, or does it simply do nothing? Chris3145 18:42, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

It does nothing: your skill remains at 100. Even if it did increase your skill past 100, it wouldn't mean anything. The effects of all skills (except Acrobatics and Athletics) cap at 100, so boosting them any higher looks impressive on your stats sheet but doesn't make your character perform any better. --Nephele 01:45, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
Well, there's still a question concerning this... if you boost a skill "beyond" 100 with a skill book, your skill won't go above 100. But does it count toward level progression and attribute bonuses at leveling up? Because that would mean that you can actually raise your level beyond the maximum. It's that way in Morrowind, at least. -- 04:30, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
I have soon read every skill book and I can confirm that nothing happens when you read a skill book with corresponding skill equal to 100. This also means that you stat regarding skill books don't increase either (wish I found to very annoying). I even tried to drain skill before I read the book but the result was the same.--Robert Smith 14:09, 21 May 2007 (EDT)
Good news! If your skill are at 100 you can always spend one night in jail to decrease the skill to 99. After that it is possible to read the book and increase the skill back to 100 and increase the skill stat on the accomplish page.. To be able to select skill to decrease, remember to save before you sleep in jail. --Robert Smith 17:27, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

Tips on where to find random skill books[edit]

One very nice place to find magic skill books (Mysticism, Destruction, Conjuration etc.) is Ceyatatar. Southwest of Ceyatatar in the Great Forest is a trapdoor with a chest (minor loot) next to it. The trapdoor is labelled Trap Door to Ceyatatar Gorihame. This is actually a back entrance to Ceyatatar. The small tunnel contains Ceyatatar's boss chest (really an ayleid cask), and a second ayleid chest with normal-value loot. If you save outside the trapdoor you can load the game and check the boss chest until you find the book you are looking for. --Robert Smith 13:45, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

New column[edit]

I was thinking of adding a new column with the general location or quest for each book. While this is already indicated in the table, as is, it's not sortable, making it harder to be sure that you've read each one in any given location, or more importantly, that you've read those that are only available during a certain quest. It would be a fair amount of effort to do this, so if I'm the only one who wants it, I won't bother, but if others think it would be useful, let me know and I'll go ahead with it. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 13:38, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm not too clear on how you'd create a meaningful sortable column for location. The current column could be changed to be sortable; the sorting has been explicitly disabled just because it didn't seem like sorting would work on that column. Even if you were to tweak all of the location descriptions to some consistent format (or add a column listing only the city for sorting, for example), you'd still have a problem with any book that is found in more than one location. Should Fighters Guild History, 1st Ed. be listed under Anvil, Chorrol, or Arcane University?
I think it might be more useful to make sure that skill books are listed on the various location (or even quest) pages. All dungeons should already have any skill books listed (both in the infobox under "Important Treasure", and in the more detailed treasure listings). Many skill books are already listed in various notes. Skill books are something I'd be planning to add NPC pages as we update those pages. Many of the other places (stores, castles) now have stub-like pages where skill books would be an appropriate additions. --NepheleTalk 21:11, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
Hmmm...you have a point about that, Nephele. There would have be multiple entries for books that there are more than one of. Perhaps a separate table? I agree, the skill books should also be listed in their appropriate locations, though, and that's the sort of thing I'd find easy enough to take on. Maybe add an "Important Items" header to each appropriate page (so you can add things other than skill books as well).
To give you a context, I like to print out a few key pages to use as checklists when I'm going through, to make sure I've gotten everything. I was thinking it would be useful to make something like that for skill books with a location column, so you're not jumping around the world needlessly, just to get every last one of them. I'd almost be willing to try 100% Completion, but I think that would take a lot more planning than I'm capable of. I may just settle for 100% over multiple characters. :) Anyway, that's the context I was thinking of it in, and it would be easier to sort by city/dungeon/quest for something like that, assuming I can come up with a workable scheme. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 15:59, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

infinite skill books[edit]

is it possible to dulicate skill books with either the arrow duplication glitch or the scroll duplication glitch?

Probably, but it won't do you any good - Reading the same skill book twice only gives you 1 skill boost, even if it's an entirely separate copy of it. --TheRealLurlock Talk 01:08, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Shivering Isles Skill Books[edit]

For now, I've included SI references in the list on the main page, but I'm just wondering if we should be creating a Shivering:Skill_Books page instead. The advantage to leaving them here is that you can find all occurences of the book in one place, regardless of which mods you have. However, the disadvantage is essentially the same: if you have no mods, the list becomes cluttered by mod-specific references. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 18:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

I think there are few enough skill books in SI that it's not needed. Like this, they're all in one place. –RpehTCE 07:38, 1 September 2008 (EDT)
Okay, that works for me. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 12:09, 1 September 2008 (EDT)
I disagree. I have spent 30 minutes now trying to find out which Shivering Isles books are skill books and still have not succeeded. If you could just at least list if they are skill books and for which school in the Shivering Isles books section, that would be perfect. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 29 April 2008
To clarify the previous comments. Shivering Isles does not add any new book titles that are skill books; i.e., none of the books listed at Shivering:Books are skill books. The only skill books found in the Shivering Isles are additional copies of skill books that already exist in the vanilla game, and are therefore books that are already listed on Oblivion:Skill Books. Even so, that only comes out to three books: one copy of Sacred Witness, one copy of The Black Arrow, v 1, and one copy of the Mystery of Talara, v 1. If you wanted to find those book titles and find where they are located, you can simply do a search for the word "Shivering" within the page. I don't see why another page is necessary to list those three books, especially since the information on the Shivering Isles locations needs to be kept on Oblivion:Skill Books, so repeating it on another permastub page would just be redundant. I'm not sure why it would take 30 minutes to scan this page to find the existing information. --NepheleTalk 13:08, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
I didn't realize that none of the new books introduced by Shivering Isles were skill books, as you must have realized judging from your "clarification". As stated, I spent over 30 minutes trying to determine which if any of the new books were skill books. I did not say I spent 30 minutes scanning a page. I see that the Shivering Isles books page has now been edited to include the fact that no new skill books are introduced with the Shivering Isles expansion pack. That works perfectly for me or anyone else who might want that information (as I am not likely to forget it). Further, I think I was very clear about what exactly I was confused about. I find your "clarification" to be long, extraneous and condescending. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 29 April 2009
And I find your reply irritating and insulting. Nephele's reply wasn't just for you, it was for everybody that comes afterwards. Robin Hood and I understood each other because of our experience with the game, but other people could have been confused (as you were). In clarifying the previous discussion, Nephele was providing a useful service so get off your high horse and stop insulting people. –RpehTCE 00:48, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
Actually, if you look at Nephele's reply under the assumption it's intended to be neutral, it more or less comes across that way. The last sentence is probably the closest thing to condescending that there is, but even there, I think it's intended more to solicit input as to why it took you so long and what could be done to make the situation better (though Nephele's recent changes to Shivering:Books probably do just that). And, of course, as Rpeh points out, the response is intended for everybody who might ever read this. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 02:04, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
Well I apologize for being an irritating noob. I should know better than to try to solicit clarification in a forum meant for experts only... — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 1 May 2009
You're always welcome to contribute. Just don't insult people while doing it. –RpehTCE 05:18, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
I felt insulted first and several people on this site agreed with my perception. I can see you are an administrator on this site and do not want to be kicked off, but is there a formal complaint process? — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 1 May 2009

(outdent) You're not going to be "kicked off", but calling somebody condescending when they're just trying to help is a good way to go about it. The only "complaint" here is against you because of that reply. If you read our Blocking Policy you will see that making personal attacks, such as you did to Nephele, is against our rules. There's nothing at all wrong with Nephele's original reply, so I have absolutely no idea who or what you want to complain about. –RpehTCE 09:51, 1 May 2009 (EDT) I'm glad you are no longer confused, and I'm also glad that you feel that the Shivering Isles books page has been improved, making it unlikely that other readers experience similar problems. Because that is what I was trying to accomplish: to make sure that my explanation contained enough information so that I could be sure I was helping you, and also any other future readers (whether noobs or experts). I am not a mind reader, so I did not know the reasons for your original misunderstanding, especially given that (from my point of view) the information had already been provided on the article and in the earlier discussion. Instead, I tried to not make any assumptions about what you did or did not understand, and covered all of the bases in my response. I'm sorry that you find it condescending if someone simply tries to make sure that a response is unambiguous. However, I'm not going to change my style of answering in the future, because I don't think brief, cryptic, or incomplete answers are more helpful.
Furthermore, this discussion was originally about whether a separate page listing just the Shivering Isles skill books is necessary; that is the main issue that I was trying to address with my response. If it really was only possible to find the information through 30 minutes of searching, then you would have been entirely correct: a new page specifically on the SI skill books would have been necessary. Therefore in my response, I thought it was important to make it clear that all of the information is already on the Skill Books article and, furthermore, that I think readers can find the information in the existing article without it taking 30 minutes. It appears that you now agree with that point, and therefore I take it that you no longer feel that we need a new SI skill books article. If so, can't we just consider this discussion resolved and move on? --NepheleTalk 11:43, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

A Matter of Intrest[edit]

Several of the skill books spanning various skills are named '2920 (Month) (Volume)'. What, if any, is the significance of this? Is it lore-related? I found them unique, and decided to set my character about collecting them, and was wondering this as a matter of intrest. - Iostream 14:53, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

If you read the whole series you'll see why there are so many - and why. –RpehTCE 15:10, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Okay, it's just been pointed out to me there was a tautology there. I meant that you would find out that there were several, and why. –RpehTCE 15:55, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Waits while everyone looks up tautology. :Þ --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 16:03, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Ah... I don't know how I missed that... Thanks! - Iostream 05:11, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

The Lunar Lorkhan[edit]

I've already completed this quest, so I can't check, but I thought everything you pick up in the dreamworld stays in the dreamworld once you leave. I think it should be noted, if it's true, for those who collect books in-game. Chunk of Ham 17:31, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Fighters Guild History[edit]

Are both the 1st Edition and the regular versions each counted as a 'Skill Book Read'? I'm going 100% completion, and don't really want to hold off my Heavy Armor skill if I can't find the regular edition... 21:35, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

Do you mean The Armorer's Challenge? If so, Phinteas appears to have the regular version of it in stock (i.e. the one that counts as a skill book). --Cbh 22:27, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
No, I'm just trying to get '109 skill books read' listed on my status. Since there's a "History of the Fighter's Guild" version and a "Fighter's Guild History, 1st Edition", I'm wondering if I have to read them both to get 109 skill books read. When I do the math, I would have to read both versions of the book, but I'd appreciate some clarification from someone who's opened them both. (As an aside, I didn't even know that there was a 'regular' version of the Armorer's Challenge.) 17:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
They are two different books, therefore they count as two separate books for any statistics. --NepheleTalk 17:46, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
OK, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks to both of you for your help. 18:51, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

Rasheeda's "second copy"[edit]

I'm guessing most of the books that are "in" shops are also available for sale: just that in most cases it'll require the Journeyman Mercantile perk to get them that way. This has a fairly significant advantage though, because it means you can save the books as you come across them to read later at will, rather than have to run all over the world later once you actually want them. I wonder if it's worth having a common footnote for all of those. Aliana 11:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Footnotes for theft and trespassing need refining.[edit]

I've been collecting skill books, so I was planning to contribute the missing footnotes for which books are owned, and which are in areas you have to trespass to get to. However, I feel like the current options for footnoting are not really consistent, nor sufficient. To start, the ownership of books and areas is affected by factions, and therefore will vary for different players. For example, normally going into Skingrad Chapel Hall to read "2920, Sun's Dawn (v2)" is trespassing, as is currently noted on the table. However, if the player has Knights of the Nine installed, and is a member of that faction, that area is no longer off limits. Obviously, this also applies to many of the books located in upper floors of the Mage's Guilds, but no one marks those as trespassing because almost everyone (but hardcore role players) at least joins the guild, even if they don't follow the questline.

To add to the inconsistency, someone then thought it was necessary to create a footnote for anything in the Arcane University to denote that you need to have completed certain quests to have access, yet the books in the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, which also have a quest requirement for entry, have no note. If the point of these footnotes is to help people determine what laws they will have to break to acquire a book then leaving out the fact access to 2 of them requires murdering people seems like an oversight! So do we then add footnotes for any similar situation as well? This causes the problem where the footnotes start to spiral out of control, and soon every book will have 4 superscript numbers by it to account for every situation that could possibly affect a player's lawful access to the book, depending on what factions they've joined, and which quests they've completed. Thoughts on how to refine the footnotes, and whether they are even necessary or useful would be appreciated. EmmBee 05:52, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes they could use a bit of an update. Do what you think's best. rpeh •TCE 09:31, 6 August 2011 (UTC)