Oblivion talk:Sins of the Father

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Anyone else having problems with this quest?[edit]

I've been waiting and wandering around in town and looking all over for this "mysterious dark elf" for hours and he has yet to appear. Game glitch maybe? Does anyone know exactly where he's supposed to appear? — Unsigned comment by Jondrasar (talkcontribs) at 21:17 on 2 April 2006‎

He's a Theives Guild fence named Fathis Ules in the Oak & Crosier. He usually hangs around just by the bar. — Unsigned comment by Hashimashadoo (talkcontribs) at 22:17 on 2 April 2006
Odd, I spoke to that fellow in my search and he indicated he was a fence but didn't mention the Jemane brothers. I started working on a different quest and had to rest in Chorrol at one point and Fathis Ules showed up and gave me the quest. — Unsigned comment by Jondrasar (talkcontribs) at 05:45 on 3 April 2006

Keeping the sword[edit]

Once you have the sword I would suggest keeping it as a weapon rather then getting gold or the shield. It can't be enchanted but it does more damage then an unenchanted elven longsword and best of all it weighs nothing because it is a quest item. Great for mages with low strength. I managed to kill the ogre chiefton at level 2 with my second character and have been running around owning everything I see with it. The chiefton is hard to kill at that level though. He killed me more then a dozen times before I managed to drop him and I only because he got stuck on some terrain and could not get to me. The other way to kill him is to simply turn down the difficulty. He is a pushover on easy. — Unsigned comment by Wanaro (talkcontribs) at 09:45 on 21 April 2006

Fathis doesn't recognize blade[edit]

I managed to retrieve the blade from the Countess, but Fathis doesn't recognize it in my inventory. I was under the impression that he would still accept it if you got it back. — Unsigned comment by PrimaryTyler (talkcontribs) at 15:29 on 19 May 2006

Other ways to get the blade?[edit]

Has anyone tried any other more creative ways of retrieving the blade? Like cast Frenzy on the countess, and when she draws the weapon, use your side-attacks to knock it out of her hand, then grab it and cast Calm on her. Or get her to draw the weapon, cast Disintegrate Weapon on her repeatedly until it breaks, then Calm, and pickpocket the blade the next time she goes to sleep. What about retrieving it from Fathis Ules instead? (Using the same tricks.) Might be more complicated, as he probably carries another weapon, so you'll have to break that or knock it out of his hands first. And if you get the blade back from Fathis Ules, can you still get one of the other rewards by bringing it back to the Castle or the Jemanes? For that matter, can you steal it back from the Jemanes as well, in similar fashion, and try for all three rewards? This quest really needs to be experimented on... --TheRealLurlock 22:26, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

I tried turning it over to Fathis, then bought it back, but the dialog option of 'Stolen Item' no longer appeared when talking to the Count's toady. --MacFodder 22:03, 7 March 2007 (EST)
I have just done a lot of testing on the blade and I can confirm that there is no way to knock the blade out her hand wether it be by disintegration, sideways power attack, or mastery perk for blocking with shield or hand to hand so yea. But what you can do is attack the countess, disintegrate her sword, and then yield to her after which the sword will be in her inventory instead of equipped and can therefore be pickpocketed. But then again if you are going to attack her you might as well simply knock her out and then pickpocket it with 100% chance of success! — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:10 on 4 February 2008‎
Try giving reverse-pickpocketings a poisoned apple to her well shes at the dining table, she will eat it and go unconscious, then pickpocket her when she gets up (i havent tried this yet but i am right now) — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 20:35 on 29 June 2008
using the poison apple isn't a good idea because she will probably keep dying every time she wakes up — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 12:57 on 30 August 2009
Actually, you cant even pickpocket her, the only option is talk when she is unconscious. A message will come up that says: The countess is unconscious. and i cant seem to pickpocket her, she always catches me. What should my sneak be, because i have the shrouded armor and hood and i used Jode's Shadow which fortifies the sneak 30. What Should i Do???— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 01:10 on 22 December 2009
Actually you can pickpocket unconscious NPCs. Simply go to sneak mode and keep tapping either A,X, or the spacebar (depending on which system you are playing). Once she starts getting up you will be able to enter her inventory and you can take any item, even if she catches you. --MC S'drassa T2M 01:17, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

() I tried killing the Chieftain before getting the quest at all, but it seems he doesn't even exist beforehand. 11:46, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Do you really need the blade?[edit]

Why keep the blade? It is barely better than the Ebony Long Sword. Just get Umbra. The Escrutheon of Chorrol is one of the best shields (if gotten at a high level) I found so far, along with Spell Breaker and Gray Aegis. At a high level you can get up to 35% damage reflection!

For those that got the shield at a really low level, there is a mod to allow the items to level with you. — Unsigned comment by Clacker (talkcontribs) at 02:55 on 12 August 2006

The zero weight factor of it being a quest item balanced with it's strength is nice factor keeping it around for awhile - dependent on what level you are when undertaking the quest. The shield is truly the best part of the deal (mod levelling aside). Different strokes i guess. The orgres a little wee bit easier than knocking Umbra around at lower level ;) Perhaps you want it back once you buy Arborwatch to put in a display case to show who's boss around the fair town! --MacFodder 23:12, 7 March 2007 (EST)
I'm an expert in 'light' armor and like the bonus I get for using 'all' light armor. Since "The Escrutcheon of Chorrol" is heavy armor (though very tempting), and I have around 170,000k (all aquired/no cheats). I have no need for the gold. As for the four "Grand Soul Gems"...huh! Ever since I got Umbra, I keep soul gems of all sizes (not to mention "Azuras Star"). I am also a big fan of poisons (especially in the wilderness). What I am not, however, is a big fan of unecessary expenses (Hence the 170,000k). So a weightless sword I can dab a 'poison of fatigue' on (instead of on my enchanted weapons which cost to recharge); to use on an overweight/oversized ogre so I can snipe him out while he rests with my "Bow of Enferno" and enchanted 'arrows of fire'. ...Priceless! That is why I chose the "Honorable Blade of Chorrol" my friend. :) Quix 12:45, 12 November 2007 (EST)
Very simple, it is stronger than a normal ebony longsword, and it's weightless. Besides unlike Umbra, it can be enchanted.--Kaito 01:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
You can have both the blade, and the shield, I did it, so can you, by the way, sneaks only 23 for me :D just took longer. Mikeyboy52 11:52, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Fathis as Fence[edit]

Just thought I would note that the information given in the Bugs section appears to be incorrect. It says that if you complete Sins of the Father prior to joining the Thieves Guild, you can retain Fathis as a fence. I completed Sins of the Father prior to joining the Thieves Guild, turned the blade over to Chorrol and got the shield, then I joined the Thieves Guild and advanced all the way up to Master Thief and was told that Fathis would be my new fence. I then found him still in Chorrol and he would still only say "You made your choice, now leave me be.". Just thought I would note this since it's rather painful to go through that process only to find out the advice was wrong - it kept me from starting the Thieves Guild chain until I was 25th level, when I could have otherwise started it much earlier. -Qwinn — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 15:07 on 24 November 2006

Please check the updated Notes section of the Sins of the Father quest. I have supplied an alternate method that should work. Happy stealing. --Egene12k 11:03, 1 December 2007 (CT)

Kill All the Ogres?[edit]

A good sneak-thief doesn't need to clear out the cavern. One can simply sneak their way past all the ogres. The only ogre that needs to be slain is the one carrying the Honorblade. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 16:16 on 6 February 2007

Completing the Thieves Guild Quests Prior to Sins of the Father[edit]

I'm a little unclear as to what the bugs section describes, but it appears to state that once you complete the Sins of the Father Quest, you can no longer use Fathis as a fence. However, completing Sins of the Father after completing the Thieves Guild Quests and obtaining the rank of Master seems to allow me to keep Fathis as a fence. Has anyone else experienced this differently? — Unsigned comment by VirtualCLD (talkcontribs) at 02:22 on 8 March 2007

I did. I just got Fathis as a fence in the theives guild, did the quest and gave him the sword and then that very second bought it back. Now he says our buisness is done and wont talk to me. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 18:40 on 14 August 2007
I believe it is only if you give the Honorblade to Chorrol, and not Fathis Ules. — Unsigned comment by Kantor (talkcontribs) at 09:12 on 29 January 2008
Same thing happened to me. If I give it to Chorrol, he says "You've made your decision", and to him, "Our business is done". I never turned in the quest, as I'd rather have the best fence in the game. To original, do you have the Unofficial Oblivion Patch? That apparently fixes it. Sadly, I'm on PS3 :( --Kantor 09:22, 10 February 2008 (EST)
Is there any way to fix the bug, or is it still undiscovered how to make Fathis your fence even after you made the correct decision? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:42 on 30 July 2009
It's not a bug. You annoyed Fathis and he won't do business any more. But there's no "fix" unless you're on the PC and can use one of the mods suggested. –rpehTCE 07:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Yep, I'm playing GOTY version on PC with Unofficial Patch and have normally acces to Fathis. Shouldn't that change be mentioned on the quest article? Lexter 21:46, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

() For now, it is mentioned on Fathis' page - I think it is more appropriate on that page than the quest page. --Krusty 08:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Completing Sins of the Father Before the Thieves Guild[edit]

Will completing this quest prior to receiving the rank of Master Thief (rhymes with Master Chief :D) prevent me from using Fathis Ules as a fence when I do reach that rank? --Kantor 04:13, 29 January 2008 (EST)

It will stop you using Fathis as a fence no matter what rank you are in the thieves guild. Volanaro 09:42, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Fathis starts quest anywhere[edit]

Maybe this is more a comment for the Houses page which says that "no NPC will trespass into your house", but I was sleeping at Arborwatch when Fathis burst in and woke me up :) It's the only time in alot of Oblivion play I've seen an NPC break in to player's house. Seems like an unintended bug. The Dark Brotherhood initiation could happen that way, but that's intended unlike SOTF. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 03:27 on 17 July 2008

To make the dark elf appear:[edit]

You need to go out to the streets of chorrol and press "wait" (press T) for more then 1 hour, like 2 or 3 will be enough... — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 01:25 on 18 August 2008

multiple shields[edit]

shouldnt this be added to the article, if you pickpoket the blade from the countess you can give it to her steward for another shield..this can be done multiple times--LuciusZelgius 00:36, 17 November 2008

IF this is true, then add it to the page, though make i'll make sure it is true--VergilSparda 21:37, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
it is true, i don't know if u can do this multiple times but after i pickpocket the sword from countess i gave it to steward then i had 2 shields. so 2 times is confirmed. Magicovento 18:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Enchanting the Honorblade of Chorrol[edit]

Am I missing something? I have tried to enchant (at an alter and with a Sigil Stone) the blade after stealing it back from the countess. It doesn't show up in the "add item" menu. (PS3 GOTY edition) Aside from Staves are there other items which cannot be enchanted? I placed this on the "Enchanting" discussion page as well. 16:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Its because the blade is always marked as a quest item, NO quest items that I know of can be enchanted if its on the article I suggest it be removed--VergilSparda 16:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
During the mages staff, the staff can be enchanted, but it would be an "on strike" spell, so a note would be appropriate, in my oppinion. Mikeyboy52 01:47, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


it says you cant give the sword back to the countess of chorrol after you buy it back from fathis but shouldent it say you cant give the sword back to laythe instead of the countess?— Unsigned comment by Thedrunknord (talkcontribs) on 11 January 2010

I've made a little tweak, so now it doesn't point to either Arriana Valga or Lythe XD, it is something much more general. --S'drassa T2M 22:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
OK - Thedrunknord 23:04, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Regaining the blade[edit]

When she sleeps (have camo suit) use paralyze spell than get the blade, much simpler. Mikeyboy52 01:44, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

The 'not restoring Weatherleah' bug[edit]

"Some players have experienced a bug where Weatherleah is not restored to a proper farm and stays wrecked. Also, the Jemane brothers will never even set foot in the house if this bug occurs."

I for one am experiencing this bug. Does anyone know what could cause it? — Unsigned comment by Dark Lord (talkcontribs) on 22 May 2010

Has anyone ever experienced Weatherleah not staying wrecked? rpeh •TCE 09:56, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
It seems quite well repaired in my game, I have a lot of mods and patches though, so.. -- 02:47, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Unable to buy Honourblade back from Fathis[edit]

Completed the quest. Handed the blade over to Fathis, who paid me. However was not able to buy it back as mentioned here. Checked his trade window immediately after turning in quest and receiving payment - no blade for sale. Anyone else experienced this issue?

I'm thinking it may the UOP that's behind this. Perhaps it was never intended to be able to buy the blade back from Fathis, and the UOP just fixed this? It definately affects him in some ways, as he returns to the Imperial City right after handing the quest in. (Whereas, as stated, he would otherwise remain in Chorrol, useless.) Dealing with him once he's gotten back doesn't make a difference either by the way.

Any ideas? All else I have installed, on top of the main game fully patched with SI, are the official DLCs, UOP SI/Mods/Supplemental and one third party mod "Progress".

Muzher 02:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Just confirmed that UOP is indeed behind this. Quoting from the change log (which I should've checked earlier...):
"Fixed being able to buy the Honorblade of Chorrol back from Fathis Ules after returning it to him in the Sins of the Father quest, as then not being able to return it to Castle Chorrol didn't make sense (it can still be stolen from Castle Chorrol {see below in Items} but did not change that as it is reasonable that Fathis would still refuse to deal with the player or accept it out of spite as he had been crossed)"
See http://baldurdash.org/TESOblivion/UOPFixList.html
Muzher 17:46, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect Information[edit]

The information on the SotF page and on Fathis' page are conflicting. Here it states that if you give the Sword back to Chorrol, Fathis will no longer serve as your fence. However, on Fathis' page, it states that Fathis will no longer serve as your fence regardless of what you do.— Unsigned comment by (talk) at 22:08 on 18 September 2010

You are indeed correct - I'll change the page as soon as possible. Oh, and the information on Fathis Ules' page is correct. --Krusty 22:29, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Get the Honorblade now, trade for the Shield later?[edit]

I'm still at a low level in my game, but I'd like to get this sword now because of it's high damage compared to everything else at this point in my game. If I get the sword now, can I use it until I reach level 25+ and then trade it for a max level Escutcheon of Chorrol? Or am I effectively ending this quest (or dooming myself to a low-level shield) by using the sword for a while before turning it in? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 09:14 on 7 February 2011

Yes, you can get it now and turn it in when you get the best bonuses from the Escutcheon.--Ghurhak gro-Demril or TAOYes? 09:27, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

what happens when..[edit]

when you steal the sword back from the countess and then it s flagged as stolen and then you get arrested? does the sword get taken? or does it stay in your inventory cause it's a quest item? or will it crash your game? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 03:13 on 1 April 2011

when you go to jail it isnt shown in your inventory but if you have it hotkeyed you can use it like all quest items, then when you get out of jail you have it shown in your inventory again. (Eddie the head 08:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC))

Problem with Honorblade?[edit]

¢When I got the Honorblade the damage was only 13 as opposed to 23, even though its health is at 100. Is this some kind of glitch? Is there some way to fix this? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 01:42 on 1 August 2011

the damage is dependent on your blade skill (From Fear to Eternity- Eddie The Head 07:32, 11 August 2011 (UTC))


Is it possible to get both the shield and the fence on the PS3 GOTY? My thought was to buy back the sword from the fence and then turn it in for the shield. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 07:33 on 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Another attribute of the Honorblade[edit]

Don't see it mentioned anywhere, but the Honorblade works against ghosts, like silver/Daedric and enchanted blades. Makes it all the more worthwhile acquiring and keeping it, at least until you level up to the point where you can get a Daedric sword. Or was this a glitch in my game? - Wordmama 18:13, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I got all the rewards somehow.[edit]

I have the blade which of course I stole back after getting the shield.I got the money and bought said sword back.Fathis is still my fence.I got the disposition raise and the soul gems from the brothers.I'm not complaining and I didn't use mods but how did it allow me to do this.I did it on Xbox 360 so again...No mods. 18:21, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Get both the Sword and the Shield, but also keep Fathis as a fence.[edit]

It has been already mentioned a handful of times, that you can just give the sword (Honorblade or Chorrol) to it's rightful owner (Laythe Wavrick and in extension the Countess of Chorrol) and then while she sleeps in her quarters, pickpocket it off. I am not 100% sure how others did it, but I was already the head of the thieves guild, so like all the big illegal schemes I do, I wear the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. I used paralyze on her, but when I did, no matter what, I could not loot her. I kept getting the message that she was fleeing for me. Beating her unconscious did not give me the option to loot her either, so I was unlucky there. What I did was to actually paralyze her and the try to loot her after she was trying to get up. (I am using all the unofficial patches, so I am not sure if its that the reason I could not do otherwise).

After that I had both the sword and the shield. The sword though is NOT weightless after you pickpocket it from the countess. It is back to the normal weight an ebony long blade is, but just a bit more powerful. So I suggest everyone that feels like having a powerful ebony weightless sword, to leave the quest incomplete after getting it.

Finally I want to point out that indeed after that Fathis stopped giving me the options to trade with him, but that was in Chorrol. Visiting him though back in the Elven Gardens, did not have the same result. He indeed has the same dialog, telling you that you made your choice, but he gives you the option to trade with him, and his disposition is not affected from not giving him the sword.

--Weltall (talk) 06:55, 23 March 2013 (GMT)

What system? I know on the PC with the UOP, this works, but will it work on the PS3? Hate not having him as a high level fence there. And will it work if not Thieves guild master FMPhoenixHawk (talk) 02:52, 15 July 2013 (GMT)

Way to get shield AND sword while keeping the sword weightless[edit]

Play through the quest until you get to the decision about who to give the honourblade to. Give it to chorrol so you get the shield.Now wait until the countess goes to sleep (its not ladylike to wear a sword to bed so she doesn't and will unequip it, now save when next to the bed she is sleeping in in case you get caught stealing from her. Now attempt to pickpocket the sword and load the previous save if you fail until you get it. Once you retrieve it, the game will be tricked into thinking it counts it as a quest item because you got it back before you finished the quest. Even after talking to the jermane (i'm not sure if i spelt that correctly) brothers and finishing sins of the father it will still count as a quest item although it has the stolen flag. (Permanently weightless and unremovable honourblade)
The honourblade and shield make me wonder if chorrol has other ebony artifacts
Notes; not sure if it works outside of unpatched 5th An ps3 oblivion so don't get mad at me if it does not

Pacifist Method[edit]

I'm attempting a pacifist run through Oblivion, and was NOT able to successfully complete this quest without killing anything.

You simply can't get the sword without the chieftain dying. I didn't have luck with Frenzy spells. A high-level Command spell might've worked? (I used followers to kill the ogres.) Alynnidalar (talk) 01:23, 29 September 2017 (UTC)