Oblivion talk:Mannimarco

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Will help people with this page.[edit]

OK, I just got the revamp. Anything you feel should be added can be given to me generally (i.e. more specifics about the battle) and I will look it up myself. I can do inaccuracies too. I am the unofficial King of Worms guy (I suppose). Verin Sedai 22:39, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Why did you delete the factually accurate information on Mannimarco from his NPC page? This information was pulled from the Oblivion Construction set, and is the way his character was set up by the Bethesda programmers for Oblivion.
Mannimarco, a male Altmer necromancer, is the arch-nemesis of the Mages Guild. He has launched an all-out attack against the Mages Guild in Cyrodiil.
We've taken great pains to document this information on every NPC in Oblivion; I'm just curious as to why you feel it is no longer relevant for Mannimarco?
--Hoggwild5 22:41, 16 November 2006 (EST)
I didn't know that was from the Construction Set. I also say the same things, if not necessarily in the same words. I feel it is relevant, sure, but I just changed it around. I'll switch it back, since its from the Construction Set. Sorry about that. Verin Sedai 22:46, 16 November 2006 (EST)
No problem....I just read the whole page and see that you've incorporated the info there. Good Stuff! --Hoggwild5 22:47, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Screenshot needed[edit]

A screenshot of Mannimarco would be highly appreciated, as I have the 360 version of the game. Verin Sedai 22:49, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Organization[edit]

For some reason, "See also" is in the middle of the page. I'm moving it to the end. Verin Sedai 00:56, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Mannimarco's Race[edit]

Why did u remove Mannmarco's true daedar race?? 124.176.238.228 04:28, 16 February 2008 (EST)

He's not a daedra, he's an Altmer. If it was you that made this edit, may I suggest you do nothing of the kind again. –RpehTCE 04:32, 16 February 2008 (EST)
I'm sorry for vandalising the wiki. 124.176.238.228 09:21, 16 February 2008 (EST)
Yeah, obviously you're really sorry. Don't waste our time with insincere apologies. --NepheleTalk 12:16, 16 February 2008 (EST)
We're not the stereotypical stupid, infinitely-forgiving nerds you know. You *pledged* not to vandalise this Wiki or any others (which inadvertantly imples that you have defaced other Wikis) on your userpage, but yet we see continued page-blanking, subtle spelling changes and many others. I am afraid it is you who has the cranial capacity of a baked potato, not us. --HMSVictory 12:58, 16 February 2008 (EST)
I agree with HMSVictory. 124.181.248.118 21:17, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Question[edit]

What does Mannimarco's aggression set to after you talk with him? --66.183.229.164 00:27, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

It gets modified upwards by 50. Since it starts at 0, and I see no other modifiers in a quick check, I assume this means it's effectively set to 50. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 11:35, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Bug?[edit]

Hi,

While fighting against Mannimarco, I came across a strange bug: neither my physical nor magical attacks had any effect on him. They would just go right through his body, as if he were a ghost. Luckily I was equipped with the Escucheon of Chorrol and the Mundane Ring, meaning that both his physical and magical attacks were partially reflected. So he basically killed himself attacking me. But had I not had this items on me, I don't see how I could have defeated him. Is this a known bug? Also, shortly before my encounter with Mannimarco, I killed a wraith (don't remember if it was a gloom or faded one) but it still looked alive, i.e. it was standing, well, floating really, and still moving, bus was recognized as dead and I could loot it. Perhaps the two bugs are somehow related.

Alexko — Unsigned comment by 88.166.211.161 (talk) at 22:47 on 27 September 2008

See this section for that particular bug. The other one is not related, it's likely the death animation that is frozen. --Timenn < talk > 06:24, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Artifacts[edit]

The page states that Mannimarco is in possession of three artifacts. Based upon Hanniibal Traven's dialogue at the beginning of the quest, I would suggest that this is not true, and that two out of those three artifacts (the bloodworm helm and necromancer's amulet) were originally in possession of the Mages Guild. (Although I have no idea where they supposedly stored them- under the archmage's pillow perhaps?). I decided not to edit the article myself incase anyone has any arguments against and I am aware that Verin Sedai is in charge of this page, although I will gladly change it myself if that would be better. The-manta 14:58, 4 November 2008 (EST)

I'd agree with your assessment and unless anybody has major objections I think it should be changed. Just to be clear - nobody is in charge of any page on the wiki except their user pages. Anybody can edit at any time. –RpehTCE 16:44, 4 November 2008 (EST)
Yeah, I know about the 'in charge' thing, I just meant that he is heading up the reorganization of this page. I'm glad you agree, I'll wait until tomorrow (GMT) and if no-one has disagreed or changed it anyway I will do so if that's all ok. The-manta 17:51, 4 November 2008 (EST)
He really isn't! His last contribution was over a year ago! Feel free to make your change: the worst that can happen is someone disagrees. –RpehTCE 18:36, 4 November 2008 (EST)
Wow, I should really check stuff like that before making stupid comments. The-manta 09:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)
Even if the Mages Guild was recently in possession of the artifacts, both the Necromancer's Amulet and the Bloodworm Helm were originally owned by Mannimarco. See, for example, the description of the Bloodworm Helm provided in Tamrielic Lore, or the description of the Necromancer's Amulet provided in Daggerfall. So I'd say the artifacts need to be mentioned in this article, even if some of the original details need fixing. --NepheleTalk 17:07, 10 November 2008 (EST)
Sounds good to me, I dont really know about Dagerfall and haven't really read any Lore pages, I was just acting out of Oblivion. The-manta 13:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)
I take the point, but that's more for a Lore article - he never actually gets them in Oblivion. Might be worth a small mention though. –RpehTCE 13:36, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Books found in Oblivion state that the artifacts were originally Mannimarco's. Furthermore, the whole reason why the Mages Guild and Mannimarco are fighting over the artifacts is that the artifacts are Mannimarco's, and therefore his acquisition of the artifacts would make him far more powerful. See, for example, Caranya's dialogue about the amulet: I heed only the word of Mannimarco. When he has the amulet, his power will be increased, and Traven will be helpless to stand in his way. So it seems that it's not just obscure information with no relevance to the game of Oblivion. Rather, it is information central to understanding Mannimarco and the Mannimarco-related quests. --NepheleTalk 13:55, 11 November 2008 (EST)

another bug?[edit]

On the confront the king quest the first time i played i accidentally attacked him before he started his speech , I thought "o crap" but he just stood there. I went up to him and tried to talk to him but it said he was busy... i don't know if anyone else has encountered it and i'm sry if it already has a mention on any other page --Archmage123 22:16, 28 December 2008 (EST)

Really dead?[edit]

is he really dead? i mean, didn't he die once, and accended to a lich? How do we know he's really dead, not somewhere becomeing an actual lich?--Arch-Mage Matt 01:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to tell. Ever since the Warp in the West made some crazy things happen, it has been hard for people to actually define what happened to him. Some believe the Mannimarco you fight is an avatar of the real one (since he had the power of a god). It depends on who you talk to really, but I guess we will find out in the next game. –Elliot talk 01:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand how you can kill someone who didn't die when Galerion died. Weird ... JackTurbo95 16:51, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Real Mannimacro?[edit]

I think it should be more voiced that it's a complete possibility that this person is not the real Mannimacro. The character just does not seem to measure up with the one from the Lore page. I mean, breathing death, inhuman transformations, his borderline demi-god status in Daggerfall, the fact that you murder him like he's a common bandit, he doesn't even look like a lich; the list goes on. Hell if the Daggerfall plot where he becomes a god is canon then this cannot possibly be the same person. Anyways, I think it's a subject worth having on the page to promote an extremely plausible theory. — Unsigned comment by 157.160.180.208 (talk) on 6 November 2009

I'm sorry but that's just pure speculation. So far, Bethesda hasn't given a single hint why this would not be the "real" Mannimarco. --Timenn-<talk> 22:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Speculation? Did you not read the several bits of evidence I included? If that's the kind of logic we're using then Bethesda hasn't given enough evidence to suggest it IS the real Mannimacro. — Unsigned comment by 157.160.180.208 (talk) on 18 November 2009
I won't say it's conclusive evidence. You named a few earlier observations that you didn't notice in Oblivion. It would certainly not be the first time there is a discrepancy between two games (or books). Bethesda names the NPC "Mannimarco", and references to a longer history. If you would like to suggest a more complex situation is present, you need more than just speculation to support that. --Timenn-<talk> 10:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately I'm unaware of his representation in Daggerfall (how powerful he was etc.), but I see you loosely quoted Mannimarco, King of Worms and Galerion the Mystic, it would be wise to remember that both these books depict Mannimarco at the height of his power. BEFORE he was defeated by Galerion and his allies, it makes sense that if he was defeated (presumed dead) that his power would be greatly lessened, and you must also take into account that he is immensely old by the time you face him in Oblivion, even if he's immune to death by natural causes he would undoubtedly be weakened by hundreds of years in hiding. Theres also the possibility that his supposed "immortality" doesn't present in the form of invulnerability but rather the more literal translations of "not-subject-to-death...ness" ;) the point I'm trying to get across is that even if he is defeated, it may not be possible to truely kill (vanquish) him and he may resurface later. -- Nacht 18:54, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

() I also thought it was pretty clear that this is not the original Mannimarco. At the end of Daggerfall Mannimarco became a god in one of the 5 endings (and in fact, it is heavily implied that ALL the endings occur due to Akatosh distorting time. This causes the bizarre series of events called the Warp in the West in which all of those possible endings seem to happen at once). Meanwhile in Oblivion the necromancers are a religious organization who clearly revere and are watched over by a god of necromancy. Their lairs are full of sacrifical altars, their writings are full of praise for their "Sovereign" (Affairs of a Wizard Diary) or "His Grace" (Falcar's hastily scrawled note), or just Him and His (other notes such as the Worm Anchorite's). Furthermore they are referred to as the Necromancer Cult and have such titles as Anchorites and Eremites, which often refer to monks and religious hermits.

So Mannimarco, head of the Order of the Black Worm, became a god in Daggerfall. The Order of the Black Worm worships a mysterious god in Oblivion. An evidently real god who gives them the power to trap human souls and teaches them how to become liches (Mannimarco was notorious for trapping human souls and for being the first Lich, as established in the Mage's Guild's book about him). A god referred to at least sometimes as the Sovereign (a rough synonym for king for anyone who doesn't know). Coincidence? I think not!

As another nail in the coffin (pun intended) of the idea that the necromancer you fight in Oblivion is the original Mannimarco, the original Mannimarco was a lich. It is stated in the book about Mannimarco that he was the first Lich, additionally the "Sovereign" worshipped by the necromancers gives his most devout and powerful followers the secret of Lichdom. Yet the "Mannimarco" you fight is NOT a lich. He doesn't look like a lich, he doesn't have any of the characteristics of a lich (such as having 25% or better spell resistance, reflection, AND absorption or dropping bonemeal or being a member of the lich faction).

So in conclusion, Mannimarco seems to have become a god in Daggerfall, seems to be worshipped as a god by the time Oblivion occurs, seems to have been a lich of incredible power prior to becoming a god, and the guy you fight is NOT a lich of incredible power. As usual with figures of lore in Bethesda games there is some uncertainty and conflicting evidence, but the overwhelming majority of the information we have to work with points to the person calling himself Mannimarco in Oblivion not being the original Mannimarco.

Is he an avatar of the god Mannimarco? Or is the name and title Mannimarco, King of Worms simply given to whoever happens to be leader of the necromancers? Or is calling their new leader Mannimarco just a way to scare the mage guild? There are still many possible interpretations of who or what exactly the Champion of Cyrodiil faces in "Confront the King," but that he is the original Mannimarco is unlikely in the extreme. — Unsigned comment by 72.82.164.230 (talk) at 21:31 on June 9, 2011

Lich[edit]

I thought he was a Lich? He looks like a normal Altmer to me...00:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)HisK

There is debate on the subject of this Mannimarco, but in general, a Lich doesn't have to have a skeletal or undead appearance. Lich is a term for a wizard that used magic to make themselves immortal. I believe that it stands to reason that a wizard powerful enough to become a Lich would be able to either conceal or alter their appearance to appear normal. But again, it is uncertain if this Mannimarco actually is the same Necromancer turned Lich of years previous. --DKong27 Tk Ctr Em 01:50, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
It's not just his looks it's how weak he is. I see why he waited for the mages guild to be in turmoil. I think the real Mannimarco is still in hiding or dead before the events of Oblivion.02:06, 6 August 2011 (UTC)HisK

No clear structure in the article[edit]

While the information in it is reliable, this article needs separate sections with clear headers: Character Information, Location, Inventory/Abilities and Dialogue. As of now, it's a pain to distinguish one section from another. The only clue I have about where's the dialogue are the italics. — Unsigned comment by Mogribus (talkcontribs) at 16:17 on 4 September 2011

Sorry, but there is no need for headers at the moment - in its current state,. the article is incredibly small and not even close to completion. While we will add a ton of rumors later on (probably in a separate section), the rest should be quite easy to distinguish. --Krusty 22:19, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Weaknesses?[edit]

Does Mannimarco have any weaknesses? — Unsigned comment by 24.78.171.193 (talk) at 23:58 on 24 September 2011‎

Well he is an Altmer so he does have 25% Weakness to Fire, Frost, and Shock. Other than that though I don't know what kind of weakness you'd be referring to. — Unsigned comment by 99.138.96.17 (talk) at 00:13 on 25 September 2011‎

The Test Mannimarco[edit]

Does Anyone know the IDs to the test Mannimarco listed in the notes. Dunehelm (talk) 21:27, 30 September 2013 (GMT)

I'm guessing it's this one, with a form ID of 00165ca4. — ABCface 21:44, 30 September 2013 (GMT)
Thanks ABCface Dunehelm (talk) 22:18, 30 September 2013 (GMT)
I found out what the test Mannimarco is like, everything it says on the notes, and a black and burgundy outfit,some gold trimmed shoes and a silver dagger. the only conversation topic she has is rumors and her disposition towards the player is a big fat 0 Dunehelm (talk) 18:42, 14 October 2013 (GMT)

Sorcerer's Ring[edit]

I found this in a chest just outside the paralyze script area for his speech. Is this coincidence or an artifact of his? Timeoin (talk) 10:06, 30 October 2018 (UTC)