Oblivion talk:Increasing Attributes

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search

Felldew Addiction[edit]

From this page:

In the Shivering Isles expansion pack, the quest Addiction will require you to become addicted to an ingredient called Felldew for the duration of the mission. At its most extreme level, this addiction results in lowering all of your attributes between 10 and 15 points.

My Comments:

I think this needs some clarification. Which attributes are lowered 10 and which are lowered 15? Shouldn't it be changed to "either 10 or 15"? Doing a google search wasn't particulary clear either, but it doesn't appear that an attribute would ever be lowered 11-14 points as a result of the felldew withdrawl.

Also, there needs to be distinction made between the STR, END, WIL, AGL, PER, SPD, LCK, and INT attributes and the derived attributes of Health, Magicka, and Fatigue.

The pertinent information I'm looking for is the total (maximum) number of attribute points lowered on major attributes as the result of the most extreme withdrawl. The way the entry is currently written, I am not sure if it is 10, 15, or somewhere in between.

I'd post the info myself, but I haven't yet purchased the expansion (tested it), and I need to ammend a level planning guide I am writing to include this exploit, as well as plan the level caps for my own character. It would be nice to know in advance. Maybe someone out there would be kind enough to clean up the note in this entry, making it perfectly clear for all those who plan to "feldew glitch" their characters.

-KW 01:31, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

At the most severe stage of withdrawal (Ruinous Felldew Withdrawal), Felldew causes 15 points Drain Attribute on each of seven primary attributes (i.e., all of the eight primary attributes except for Personality), plus 15 points Drain Health. --NepheleTalk 02:09, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure you are correct, but it still helped. Your take on it is what I had assumed originally, but refining my search with the word 'ruinous' (that you provided) has revealed several sources reporting differently, including a similar wiki at: http://oblivion.gamewikis.org/wiki/Felldew

Eventually, I'll get to testing it myself, but given the imprecise language used in the original article here, the gamewiki post, and an independent gamer guide, I conclude that {STR, AGL, INT, LCK, and Health} -15 AND {WIL, SPD, END} -10 is most likely the correct answer. In which case, the article in this section should be ammended as follows:

In the Shivering Isles expansion pack, the quest Addiction will require you to become addicted to an ingredient called Felldew for the duration of the mission. At its most extreme level (Ruinous), this addiction results in lowering STR, AGL, INT, LCK, and Health by 15 points and WIL, SPD, END by 10 points. Whilst in effect, this lowering extends the attribute cap on gaining class levels.

It would probably be a good idea to list the levels of withdrawal (somewhere, maybe Feldew page) and assert that the stages are NOT cummulative in effect.

Does anyone disagree with what is written here in italics? Is there a consensus maintaining -15 to all but personality and the other wiki is just wrong? Testing will tell for certain.

-KW 00:00, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

Oops, sorry about that, I didn't notice that the three values in the middle of the list only had -10 values. For good measure this time, I pulled up a game save, too, and double checked against what I got there. So, yes, what you've written in italics seems accurate. Eventually I'm sure we'll end up with a full table on the effects at every level of withdrawal, but we just need someone who's willing to volunteer and do it ;) --NepheleTalk 00:35, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

NP. The "gamer guide" I mentioned went into detail: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/924363/43238 I plan on testing it for verification, but it's probably correct:

  • Felldew Euphoria (INT +20, STR +20, AGI +20)
  • Felldew Euphoria (INT +10, STR +10, AGI +10)
  • Felldew Withdrawal (LUC -5, INT -5, STR -5, AGI -5)
  • Painful Felldew Withdrawal (LUC, INT, STR, AGI, SPE, WIL, END -5)
  • Wounding Felldew Withdrawal (LUC, INT, STR, AGI -10, SPE, WIL, END -5)
  • Crippling Felldew Withdrawal (LUC, INT, STR, AGI, SPE, WIL, END, Health -10)
  • Ruinous Felldew Withdrawal (LUC, INT, STR, AGI, Health -15, SPE, WIL, END -10)
  • Felldew Euphoria (if you have Chalice of Reversal) (INT +5, STR +5, AGI +5, Health +20, Magicka +20)

I also read somewhere that the stages occur within 20 seconds or so (real time) of each other.

-KW 01:33, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

Greenmote Rapture[edit]

I just noticed that the Greenmote Rapture effect from Shivering Isles is also implemented as an ability rather than just a spell, fortifying Personality, Endurance, and Speed while draining Intelligence, Agility, and Strength, although it is an ability with only a 60 second duration. Because it's an ability, leveling up while it is active should modify the base values of your attributes, just like Felldew Withdrawal. Has anyone tested this to see whether it's possible to level up while Greenmote Raptue is effective, and if so, what happened to your attributes? --NepheleTalk 09:56, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

Greenmote Glitching Test Results[edit]

I just tried leveling up while Greenmote Rapture was active. Prior to this I had already Felldew glitched my character to the maximum possible stats (I haven't yet obtained the Oghma Infinium). My stats are as follows: STR, INT, AGL, LCK all at 115, WIL & SPD @ 110, and PER = 100. This is as high as possible with the Felldew exploit. I had well over 10+ skill increases in skills governing STR, AGL, and WIL before hitting the final point in my major skill for the extra level up. I took 2 consecutive doses of greenmote right before the final point, expecting this to lower my STR, INT, & AGL each by 20 pts, taking them down from 115 to 95 so that I could add 5 to each(3) of them. Therein lays the first problem, which is that greenmote rapture does NOT stack. Barring death at 3 doses, 2 doses is the same as 1 dose and so I was only able to lower my base attributes to 105, not the required 95. The other thing I noticed, which may pose a second and more serious cause of failure, is that UNLIKE felldew withdrawl which persists upon waking, the rapture wears off. (I have seen certain abilities whose duration is unaffected by sleep and the rapture is not one of them). So, even with sufficiently lower stats, pushing past 100 in this fashion may not be possible. I cannot test this without reverting to an very OLD save followed by a lot of replay, but my hunch is that the ability goes away as soon as you sleep. I don't plan on taking the time to find out because the third, and more obvious problem with Greenmote Glitching (even if possible), is that unless you can get 2 doses to stack in effect, Felldew glitching is still superior in terms of how far past 100 you can push your attributes. The only utility would be a lesser effect for characters that did not take advantage of Felldew Glitching prior to retrieving the Chalice. Since you must first complete Quest:Addiction prior to gaining access to the Greenmote Silo, this renders Greenmote glitching, even if possible, of little consequence for most. [Be sure to do all your attribute glitching prior to acquiring the chalice of reversal.] The only tangible result of my greenmote rapture test is that I now recieve the "Cannot improve upon perfection" message whenever my character sleeps, along with the persistent level up icon.

It was a nice idea, but unless there is some way, somehow that 2 (or more) greenmote rapture ability/effects can be made to stack AND it can register in the level-up execution as in the case of an ability, there's no way to go beyond STR, INT, AGL, and LCK 115, WIL & SPD 110, & PER = 100, BASE in the game (without console command/cheats). I even thought of making a poison out of the refined greenmote, reverse pickpocketing a poisoned weapon to an NPC and getting them to attack me with it while I take a dose to get the effects to stack, but then it's no longer an ability, it's a poison and an ability. I don't suppose master level alchemy 1 ingredient potion will help here, will it? I'm open to suggestions, but this is likely the absolute limit.

On a side note, I'm not sure why, but I cannot seem to obtain either the Blessing of Dementia or Mania in the Cold Flame of Agnon quest as described elsewhere in the wiki entries. This site claims you can walk from one side to the other and change the decoration in the Sacellum. I never have this option as opening the fire grates is mutually exclusive in my game (agreeing to light torch for one side ends dialogue options for other faction). Does anyone know if I'm missing some simple action, was it the manner in which I did the quest, etc? (I talked to Ulfri first, then led the Saints through the Underdeep.) I've already completed the next two quests, the Mania flame is lit, I can walk into it, but No Blessing of any kind, nor an ability to move or even "take on" the flame again. Perhaps the latest patch removed it or the UESP quest description is incomplete in its explanation.

-KW 19:00, 9 October 2007 (EDT)


I would like to dispute the comments made about personality. I have not changed them, but I wonder if personality is really as useless as the author claims? I use invisibility all the time and I think Paralyze might also be illusion. I'm not certain how the computation works, but I assume that having a high personality lowers the cost of casting illusion spells. There really is no other spell I cast more than invisibility. In my previous game, my character was invincible using a combination of invisibility and paralyze. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I would like a better understanding of how this works.

Illusion is undoubtedly a useful skill but even though it is governed by personality, it is not affected by it. The Personality and Magic Overview pages go into a bit more detail but essentially, personality only affects your disposition with NPCs. The spell cost for Illusion spells drops as your Illusion skill increases - it's nothing to do with your personality. The comments about personality on the page stray fairly close to the boundary of being opinion rather than fact, but then again there really can't be much argument. --RpehTCE 06:22, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Another Felldew Addiction Question...[edit]

From this page:

Therefore you can potentially increase your attributes above 100 and/or level up past your character's maximum level (if all of your attributes were already at 100).

My question pertains to the above quote -- I'm not sure how being able to increase your attributes affects your character's maximum level (which is a function of major skills). I believe the second part of the quote is in error. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 7 June 2009

I have edited the page to delete the erroneous information. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 9 June 2009
Thank you. It would make sense if it were skills, but like you, I can't see how only increasing your attributes would have any effect. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 01:02, 14 June 2009 (EDT)
No, the above quote is correct because although major skills do decide when you can level up they do not decide the maximum
level. This is because if you were to spend time in jail and lower your major skills you can regain those skills and level
again. However in the case of atributes if all atributes are at 100 (or higher) you can no longer level-up despite what
you do with your major skills. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 18 July 2009
Incorrect. You can still level up when all your Attributes are at 100 (or higher). --Timenn-<talk> 11:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I know this is an old post, but every time i try to level up with a level 67 (jail glitch included) with perfect atrbs, a message pops up to the effect of further perfection can not be achieved. Mikeyboy52 09:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Leveling Bonuses Verification[edit]

In the notes of this section it explains how the level up message prohibits bonuses of attributes from leveling skills thereafter, so let me get this straight -

• If I level up major skills by 10 (prompting the message) then any other minor skills I will only receive bonuses in attributes of those governed by the major skills, but no others
• If I level up any minor skills then the major skills by 10, I will receive bonuses in attributes of the minor skills that govern them as well as the attributes governed by the major skills
If this is so, could this be put into simpler terms as it feels quite confusing to me. Could some sort of example (not necessarily the one here) be placed & could this information also be put in the Efficient Leveling page, as I have been losing attribute bonuses due to being unaware of this information, as I have not seen it there. If I have overlooked such information being present in that article, my apologies.
--Arpaleggia 11:35, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

"Interesting Point"[edit]

(moved from the article)

However, the interesting point is that the felldew timer ignores sleeping time (PC version, others not checked). This means if you raise your Endurance up to 100 under Ruinous Felldew Withdrawal, take felldew just before sleeping, which raises your endurance to 110, sleep to raise your level while still remaining under Felldew Euphoria, and gain 11 health for that level.

Can someone explain exactly what this means? rpeh •TCE 15:50, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I get the impression the writer means that by having raised your END to 100 while having Ruinous Felldew Withdrawal (so when you're cured from the addiction it will become 110) and then takes Felldew just before resting for levelling (so that you're experiencing Felldew Euphoria) the game will use your current "normal" END of 110 when you level up (so you'd get 11 points of Health) and that it won't go away when Felldew Withdrawal sets in again. -- MartinS 20:12, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I am the original poster (did not sign in for the previous edit) - MartinS is correct. This worked very nicely for my current character (701 base health at level 51, despite running a Breton):
  1. Raise endurance by 5 every level until it hits 100.
  2. Get addicted to felldew but do not pick up the Chalice of Reversal. The felldew elytra outside Dunroot Burrow respawns despite what the page says, so you don't even have to go into the burrow.
  3. Just before sleeping to gain the next level, take felldew, wait for Painful Felldew Withdrawal, and sleep before it becomes Crippling Felldew Withdrawal. Your endurance is now 95 and can be increased again. Even better, the felldew withdrawal timer does not advance while sleeping, so you wake up and level with your endurance at 95 rather than 90.
  4. For the next level, do 3) again, but wait for at least Crippling Felldew Withdrawal.
  5. For levels after this, take felldew and immediately sleep to gain the level. Again, the felldew withdrawal timer does not advance while sleeping, so you are still under Felldew Euphoria and your endurance is therefore 110 when leveling. If you want to raise other stats over 100 using felldew, it is impossible to do this with every further level since at some point you have to be under withdrawal to keep raising stats.
My base character attributes thanks to the use of felldew are: Luck of 110 (could have been 115, but I goofed); Strength, Intelligence, and Agility of 115; and Speed, Will, and Endurance of 110. Almost any character can achieve those attributes using felldew (almost because there are other level limiters besides attributes), but it takes some care and attention as well as a willingness to not advance the Shivering quests until you have maxed out your level. You can then add the Oghma Infinium bonuses, The Knights of the Nine final blessings, and the effects of Vampirism to get attributes even higher. This is without equipment bonuses and without the use of any unofficial mods. Rpeh, you undid the edit that added this to the page. I think it would be nice to have it back in for those people dedicated (crazy) enough to use it. Do you agree? RedUnmaker 04:45, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I checked in the CS and the Felldew Elytra definitely should not respawn. Ever. Its base form does not have the respawn flag and nothing in its script would cause it to. --DKong27 Talk Cont 16:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

() My friend says the one outside the cave (or wherever) respawns. (I haven't gotten to that part yet.) So perhaps it's different with different patchlevels or something. Or something else. -- MartinS 21:06, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the point of raising luck to 100 or above, as your skills will be 100 in the end thus making whatever your luck is irrelevant. So making sure all your attributes except LUC and PER are 100 (will happen around level 24-26), then taking felldew and it's resulting withdrawal making it possible to raise STR, INT and AGI 15 points more and WIL, END, SPD 10 points more (== 5 levels, ignoring LUC and PER), results in completing the felldew quest after those 5 levels (around level 29-31). Hence no need to wait for maxmimum level to do the Shivering quest. (Unless your crazy enough to pointlessly have the highest possible LUC as well.) -- MartinS[Special:Contributions/|]] 21:06, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

---I am running the Steam GOTY edition with the latest official patches, so the question of respawning felldew elytra may indeed by a version question. Note that if the outer felldew elytra never respawned and the player somehow lost/used the only sample before going into Dunroot Burrow, then the main Shivering quest line would be uncompletable without console/cheats/mods. Therefore it only makes sense to have at least the outer one respawn. In my version, all felldew elytra, both inside and outside, respawned and the outer one respawned fast, on the order of 5 minutes of play time. I never saw more than one felldew elytra alive outside at once (although one alive and several corpses did happen) and I never actually saw it appear. The inside ones respawned as usual.
---I don't know the game mechanics well enough to know whether luck over 100 has any effects normally, but at a minimum, it is some help against luck drain/damage. However, skills are rarely fully maxed until late in the game, so until then high luck is a help.
---MartinS, you are leveling 5/5/5, I was leveling 5/5/1. So, if you level 5/5/5 and do not wish to push luck above 100, then you can finish the addiction quest earlier. Otherwise, luck is usually the last stat to level, so to get luck above 100, you have to finish the addiction quest at very high levels. And yes, I was crazy enough to want to push luck that high.
---Thanks to whoever placed the formatting tags. I didn't know them all.RedUnmaker 03:42, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Acquiring enough felldew to make the quest easier[edit]

Whether this is a glitch or not, if you obtain the first batch of felldew in order to enter Dunroot Burrow, you can simply wait 24 hours and another felldew carrying elythra appears. Repeat, and repeat....I entered the burrow with 7 felldew, which made the quest quite simple, as you didn't need to locate and kill Elythra in the cave. My big question is this: without attributes at 100, is there any advantage in sleeping and leveling up before taking the Chalice of Reversal? ~~MGSBoca — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 13:47 on 16 November 2017

Yes and No. You can gain a maximum of 30 points for each attribute if at 100, or less if you do it between 70 and 100. If you do this at 71 points you will gain an extra 1 point, as it will be 101 when it wears off. However, you must stay away until you have reached 100 in that attribute per the advice for taking maximum advantage of it. Whether the points available are worth it depend on the exact amount you had and in which ones. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 19:02, 16 November 2017 (UTC)