Morrowind talk:Vivec (god)

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Paragraph Disagreement[edit]

I disagree with the following paragraph:

"They then went against Nerevar's dying wish by using the profane Tools of Kagrenac on the Heart of Lorkhan in order to steal its divine essence for themselves. They achieved great heroism with their divinity, but it was also their undoing; because they worked deeds of good against the evil of the Heart they were weakened even before the return of Dagoth-Ur, Nerevar's nemesis. Dagoth-Ur, who had also stolen power from the Heart, acted in accordance with its evil and grew stronger."

The Heart of Lorkhan isn't evil, just a very powerful artifact. The Tribunal members used its power to gain divine powers, by tapping it once in a while with Kagernac's tools. Their power was not sustainable, so the had to re-imbue themselves every time with the Heart's power, when their energy was running low. When Dagoth Ur came back to life, he regained control over the Tool and the Heart, thus the Tribunal members could no longer reimbue themselves and they grew weaker and weaker with time.

"Dagor-Ur [...] acted in accordance with its evil and grew stonger." signals a big misunderstanding somewhere.

Ralleyon 03:57, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

Sithis created Lorkhan to kill the Aedra, making him evil to do this. This would make Lorkhan's heart evil, would it not?--Drake3555 19:38, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

I think I know which book you read to come up with that, and let me say that is you want to learn about the topic, you shouldn't start there.Temple-Zero 19:47, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Well, the whole "What happened at Red Mountain" section is under reconstruction. The Lore:Heart of Lorkhan is what stabilized Mundus' & Nirn existence (among other stones & towers), keeping the planes separated, without the continued presence of the gods. Talking about this in terms of good/evil is not very helpful, I think. --BenouldTC 19:53, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

'He has saved the Dunmeri people from certain death on numerous occasions, most notably when he taught them how to breathe water so that he could flood Morrowind and kill the Akaviri invaders, c. 2E 572.'

I recall this being from some of the Temple documents, and thus slightly dubious. Teaching a group of dunmer to breath water so that they could spring/be bait in an ambush I could understand, since I think Vivec would be powerful enough to flood a moderate area. It would have been something like the battler against the Empire referenced in 2920, The Last Year of the First Era. But flooding an entire province? I'm not sure all the daedra working together could do that. I also doubt that every mer in Morrowind could successfully water breath for long enough to drown the invaders.

I'm not sure this should be listed as factual, which it currently appears to be. ~Morgrim

Vivec's Health After Main Quest[edit]

Added a mention of what happens (or rather doesn't) when you kill Vivec after you've beaten the Main Quest. Would anyone happen to know his exact HP? (It is definitely under 3000, if not 1000.) -71.249.111.52 13:09, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Odd, I've just given it a check on my save game... still has it as 3000.--— Unsigned comment by 203.59.20.221 (talk)

Note Verification[edit]

I'm moving this link that was offered as verification for the following note:

If you kill Vivec after you finish the Main Quest, he has much less health and will leave no corpse, soul, or the Back Path left-handed Wraithguard since it is no longer necessary. Instead, you are simply left with the message "The Heart of Lorkhan is no more, and Vivec and his innatural [sic] powers dissolved with it."

I don't buy a screenshot as hard evidence for this, but since I'm not sure I wanted to start a discussion about it. Can anyone else help out with this? –Eshetalk 02:45, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


After finishing the main quest i killed vivec, but i just get the information that i killed an immportant character and i could loot the corpse for the wraithguard. There is a bug also when i talk to other people abaout almalexia. Theres an option that i found Sotha sil dead and that i killed almalexia AND vivec, also vivec is still living.

Yeah, you can kill Almalexia before the showdown (although you'd have to fight her 4 near-invincible guards to do it) and no one in Mournhold will care or notice. However, Vivec can die with that message and without giving up his version of Wraithguard, but it seems to show up only if you meet some seemingly weird conditions. -71.247.37.33 15:48, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
When someone can tell us what those conditions are, we can add it to the page. Otherwise, we can't really call it accurate, since I've got two Wraithguards.--Ratwar 22:18, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
No. There is a screenshot showing this to be true, so it should definitely be mentioned on the article until somebody can show that it is NOT true. The burden of proof is on you here, Ratwar. 89.168.79.167 23:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Whoa, can we please quit reverting this edit until we get more information? I don't see any problem with leaving the note and verification tag in place for now. The reason we have doubts about the screenshot is because we don't have any way of knowing whether this screenshot was in any way altered or what version of the game it comes from. For all we know, the shot is from a modified version of the game, which means it doesn't apply to the article. In any case, I'd appreciate it if everyone would discuss it here instead of arguing back and forth through edit summaries. –Eshetalk 23:37, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry... was that not what I just did? I posted on the talk page to explain why deleting the information was wrong. What else should I have done, Eshe?
I must confess I haven't seen the message myself, but the information should not be dismissed until it is clear that the message came from a mod. 89.168.46.238 00:22, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Er...that comment was addressed to everyone. I didn't mean to imply you'd done the wrong thing; I was simply requesting that everyone move to a discussion rather than an edit war. Sorry! I should have been more clear. –Eshetalk 00:27, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Searching the construction set for that particular phrase, I couldn't find anything. And yes, I checked the GMTS too. The fact that that line is absent suggests without much doubt that the entire event does not exist. The screenshot could as easily be from a mod. There might be a difference in versions here (GOTY vs. classic) but I seriously doubt that this case. Since Ratwar has been unable to reproduce the event as well, I opt to remove the note from the article. --Timenn-<talk> 09:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I have now gone back and verified in game that no such text appears. This was gone on a basically clean install of Morrowind without either of the expansions. I have failed to see anything that points to this being accurate in either the Construction Set or the actual Game itself. The single screen has now been confirmed false by myself, Timenn, and 79.199.199.180. Now it is still possible that the text itself is added by one of the expansions, though I highly doubt it. Therefore, until someone can list the circumstances that leads to this message appearing, I have removed it from the page.--Ratwar 06:27, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Strategy For Killing Vivec[edit]

What's a good strategy for killing Vivec? Is there a minimum level for it to even be possible? MrSensiBob 00:04, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Make sure you have a lot of health and a high hit chance.Kinvalor75 20:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Just dodge his spells for a while until he runs out of magicka. He's cake when he just uses hand to hand. — Unsigned comment by 76.2.97.167 (talk) on 1 August 2010
He's just like any other foe, but tougher. Level up. Now please stop this discussion because it's not related to improving the article. rpeh •TCE 21:40, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
I believe this page could use a bit of talk about actually fighting Vivec as I know a lot of people would enjoy that and there is such strategy talk for many lesser enemies. Even though Vivec isn't a necessary fight a brief overview of the fight and everything noteworthy about it as Vivec is an extremely valuable kill as he has the largest soul in vanilla and is second only to Alma even when playing with the expansions. But yes if someone is still reading this for the strategy part just let him waste his magicka and keep your fatigue up (as with all serious fights sanctuary is a huge benefit). 88.194.21.147 20:05, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
he is easy to kill at level 25 if you have all the best heavy armor and weapons — Unsigned comment by 217.152.94.59 (talk) on 18 May 2011
Your level is immaterial. You can kill any opponent at any level if you have good skills and equipment. --Brf 11:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Another Way on Defeating the Great God Vivec[edit]

One thing was the cheats i talked awhile about you can buy many other things first.health potions. This stradegy is really common, buy levitation potions and have a really good bow such as the daedric long bow or Ariel's bow. get to the palace and levitate to the top and keep shooting him. first it really helps for xbox players becuase you must dodge his spells untill his magicka is out.bring lots of restore health potions really good quality and have at least the health of 200-230. get good arrows and this way takes for ever. So if you would depend on at least 10-15 miniuts killing vivec easely this is one of them so you could use that. also this help from the levitation trick helped me with the Umbra Sword At level 3 so keep that in mind sighned Acab47 — Unsigned comment by 67.199.164.42 (talk) on 13 december 2010

Genesis of the "Vivec" name[edit]

Hey, surfing the Internet, I found out that a word "Viveka" means "discrimination. This is the intellectual ability to discriminate, or discern, between the real and the unreal." It's very interesting since the Lord Vivec has two colours of his body (light and dark) which are certainly divided into two. It's interesting, itsn't it? — Unsigned comment by 81.190.154.97 (talk) at 02:38 on April 20, 2011

I don't really see a connection...Anyway, without a clear reason this would just be speculation on the reasoning of the devs naming. --DKong27 Talk Cont 20:04, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
There is a connection. Almalexia comes from words "alma" and "lex" which means "good law" from Greek. Viveka is from India and it is commonly known that the authors of the game used many Hindu and ancient-Asian names like "Ulummusa" and the like. — Unsigned comment by Umma86 (talkcontribs) at 19:38 on 24 April 2011
Almalexia's name comes from Alma Lex that mean Gracious Law in Latin. — Unsigned comment by 212.226.2.226 (talk) at 13:27 on June 18, 2011
It is interesting, I think that it could be discrimination because: He is one of the last living Chimer alive, It must be a different life for Vivec in this time with mostly the typical Humans, Mer, and Beast races around. So he has to live different to everyone else. Tamriel&Sovngarde (talk) 19:10, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

Unique Dwemer Artifact[edit]

Can Vivec be pickpocketed for the Unique Dwemer Artifact he is normally carrying after you have already received Wraithguard from him? -- Kertaw48 (talk) 19:46, 26 December 2012 (GMT)

I don't know, it might be scripted to appear on him ONLY when he is dead. I know you can take it from his corpse after you received it from him - and before. Tamriel&Sovngarde (talk) 19:02, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

Vivec's Age[edit]

Does anyone have a rough idea of how old Vivec is in Morrowind? Tamriel&Sovngarde (talk) 18:55, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

However long he was alive before the first Battle of Red Mountain plus 3843 years. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 19:17, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
So he is most likely older than Divayth Fyr then? Could his age be added to the article once we find out more info from his Lore and Morrowind pages? Tamriel&Sovngarde (talk) 19:30, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Short answer, no. According to one source (OOG, I think), Divayth Fyr was already a master wizard before the Tribunal's apotheosis. At the time of the second Battle of Red Mountain, Vivec was still a "junior counselor" to Nerevar. So we have some indication that Divayth Fyr is older than Vivec, not younger, though nothing is known for certain. That's why I would rather not speculate specifically on his age. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 19:39, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
So Vivec is at least 3843 years old. That means that Divayth Fyr was born at least 157 years before Vivec was, now we just need to find out earlier events that mention Vivec and find how many years back from The First Battle Of Red Mountain the earlier events were. Then once we have found out how many years back the earlier events are we just add that to 3843 then that is getting this answer closer every time. One question: When Vivec was born was he a God of was he a normal person until he got Kagrenac's tools and became a God when he found Akulakhan and the Heart Of Lorkhan? Tamriel&Sovngarde (talk) 20:13, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
We can't date any of the events prior to that. We have no way of knowing exactly how old either of them are. Vivec was a normal person before they used the heart of Lorkhan. Jeancey (talk) 20:15, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
And then, purportedly, OOG says Vivec the new god then went back and made it so he was always a god, creating Twice Vehk. Sorry, T&S, but we've don't have any real sources dating back before the first battle in or around 1E 416. Some prose from Vivec, but no dates. And the dates we have are largely generalizations; it's unlikely, for example, that Divayth Fyr was exactly 4,000 years old during Morrowind. He might've been a little only, or a little younger. It's hard to do math with these kinds of dubious figures. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 20:25, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

() Thanks for helping me with my queries. Again, it is good to know how old Vivec was approximately. What race/species was Dagoth Ur? Vivec is a Chimer, so Dagoth Ur must be a species of something? Tamriel&Sovngarde (talk) 21:09, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

Dagoth Ur was chimer as well. Jeancey (talk) 21:12, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Then why is Dagoth Ur different to Vivec? I will list their differences below:
Dagoth Ur:
Skin Tone: Steel Grey
Has Hair and Facial Hair
245 centimeters tall
Vivec:
Skin Tone: Dark Elf Side: Grey-Blue
Shaved Bald and has no facial hair
183 centimeters tall — Unsigned comment by Tamriel&Sovngarde (talkcontribs) at 21:20 on 31 May 2013
Why did Gandhi and Winston Churchhill look different? Are they not both human? Also, why did the rest of the chimer changed into dunmer, but not Vivec, Dagoth Ur, Almalexia and Sotha Sil? Physical differences in game have no bearing on the lore. They look different because vivec is (nominally) good, and Dagoth Ur is evil. Jeancey (talk) 21:24, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
So the Heart Of Lorkhan gave Dagoth Ur his Appearance then?
Also, I have a query, what did these do individually to Dagoth Ur: Akulakhan, Heart Of Lorkhan
Also why is the Heart Of Lorkhan connected to Akulakhan? Tamriel&Sovngarde (talk) 21:33, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
The Heart of Lorkhan powers the Akulakhan. We have no sources for why Dagoth Ur looks the way he does, so we cannot speculate on that. Jeancey (talk) 21:44, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Hang on, I'm confused. I know this is two years late, but where the heck does it say that Dagoth Ur had facial hair? The only time you see him in-game is when he wears that big golden mask, which may or may not be an accurate representation of his true facial features. Also, his skin tone is more of a dark gray-brown than steel-grey. Or was this in reference to his original body? Bauglir100 (talk) 14:49, 3 March 2015 (GMT)

Voice files?[edit]

I can't help but wonder why they weren't assigned to Vivec in the game, even though they were obviously recorded for him. Same goes for the unused lines meant to be assigned to Yagrum Bagarn. Is the game unable to render such dialogue for characters such as "Creatures" the way it can for NPCs? Because if that's the case, then how come Dagoth Ur had voice files attached to him? On that note, could anyone post the voice files for those characters on their respective articles? I'd like to hear what they (were meant to) sound like. Bauglir100 (talk) 14:42, 3 March 2015 (GMT)