Morrowind talk:Fortify Fatigue

Morrowind knowledge I have not seen on the web yet

(moved from User_talk:rpeh) Hi, I'm trying to add new undocumented knowledge about Morrowind. I've been using the technique described in [[Morrowind:Awe]] for years, but I have yet to see it documented anywhere on the web. I thought this would be a good site to try to add this knowledge. Any help you can give in getting this knowledge documented on the web would be appreciated. I backed it up to my user page and sandbox at User:Eruondr/(Awe) Thanks. Eruondr 02:57, 16 November 2008 (EST)

I'm not sure what the purpose of your technique is... what benefits does it offer over this technique? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:02, 16 November 2008 (EST)

The final purpose of this technique is not to create strong potions or to fortify skills or attributes. Using this technique you are able to set npc disposition to 100 immediately. Also, with this technique you are able to purchase any item or service for 1 drake. (For example, train any skill from a master trainer from 5 to 100 for only 95 drakes. In addition, purchase any spell for 1 drake or enchant any item for 1 drake. Also, buy any item for 1 drake. Finally, sell any 1 item for all of the trader's drakes.) The values given for the Intelligence and Fatigue levels are specific for ease of use in achieving the above goals. Trying the examples may help. Hope this helps a little. Thanks again. Eruondr 03:15, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Also, the technique is available early in the game and without access to Tribunal or Bloodmoon. A level 1 Orc Barbarian, not known for alchemical or magical ability, can follow the example to achieve quick results. Eruondr 03:20, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Right... well it doesn't seem important enough to warrant a separate page of its own. I suggest you simplify what you've written and add it to the Cheats page. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Yes it is not very important. I had just never seen it documented and was hoping someone else would have already added this knowledge. It is a somewhat subtle way to play so it is difficult to simplify. I didn't want to clutter up the hints or cheats pages. I'm not sure that I am the one to simplify it more. As I have already simplified it for several hours, and as you can see it is difficult to grasp how it is different from other power potion and spellmaking ways of playing. This technique only deals with the additional effects of a fortified fatigue which all other documents seem to ignore. They only talk about the jumping ability and the dangers of using up fortified fatigue. It is like people see the initial negative effects of having a fortified fatigue and never attempt to experiment with it again to discover the benefits when used properly. Eruondr 03:46, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Okay, well the "Obtain Apparatus" can go completely, the "Bootstrap Intelligence" para could just be a link to the necessary section on the Cheats page. You've invented the terms "Awe" and "Sublimation", and that makes the page confusing. The "Concoct Awe Potions" para doesn't need to list amounts and locations - a suggestion of the ingredients is all that's necessary. Most of the notes and side effects are either unnecessary or could be merged. Phrases like "It is doubtful that..." aren't very helpful - you should find out if it's true before posting.

Now I've read it a few times and understand what's going on, it seems the easiest solution would be to add "Fortifying Fatigue to around 4-5,000 will result in prices of 1 drake for all human merchants" to the Super-Human Power-ups section. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:58, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, that sounds good. I was just think of maybe adding a simple line like that to the Fortify Fatigue page. I was just worried about all the little caveats that would cause confusion and get the knowledge lost. That line is the important knowledge. You need around 4000 fatigue to raise the disposition to 100 for the toughest NPC's like Skink-in-Tree's-Shade. After raising disposition you only need around 1000 fatigue to acquire anything for 1 drake for the toughest NPC's like Ababael_Timsar-Dadisun until raising your Mercantile above 5. Eruondr 04:11, 16 November 2008 (EST)

I don't think the knowledge is really that useful now that I think about it. It just always surprises me that it is never mentioned when silly things like selling potions to raise drakes is listed. All the time consuming exploits to gather drakes or to buy and sell items seem pointless. On the other hand all exploits are kinda silly when you have access to the construction set. I do appreciate your time though. I don't really want to spend hours on wiki for something so trivial. Maybe when I'm playing in Skyrim, I'll check the web again and see someone else has documented it. Thanks again. Eruondr 05:00, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Personally, I'd see this as more of a glitch exploit than anything else. But then, I think that's true of pretty much ALL Alchemy Fortify Intelligence tricks. (Play your cards right, and you can make a lvl 1 character essentially god-like by exploiting Alchemy. There's videos out there of people completing the Main Quest in under 10 minutes this way.) However, I would be curious to see how much effect Fatigue has on vendor prices within normal ranges. If you go to a merchant with full Fatigue, say 200, are their prices going to be significantly better than if you go to them when nearly exhausted? This would imply that you should never go shopping when you're tired, and that would apply to normal, non-cheating gameplay as well. You could also create a few basic Fortify Fatigue potions (without cranking your Intelligence up to crazy levels first), and use those to save a few coins when you buy and sell things. It's worth looking into to see whether this has much of an effect on average gameplay, rather than just on extreme glitch-exploits. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 09:03, 16 November 2008 (EST)

The portion about being doubtful of an attacker being able to hit a character fortified with high fatigue has always tested true, but I have not had a reason to test it fully. For example, with a fortified fatigue around 1600 a summoned golden saint will still be able to hit you. If the fatigue is fortified to around 2600, then a summoned golden saint will not be able to hit you. Fatigue seems to be a poorly documented attribute. It seems to be used in several calculations to determine success that are not completely documented. Eruondr 12:36, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Fatigue affects all skills, and the fatigue fraction must be top-heavy after fortification. I've never tested Fort Fatigue, so I'll need a minute at the game to figure it out, I think we should all reconsider these "well known" formulas such as ([Luck / 8]+[Willpower / 4]+[Spell Skill * 2.5]-[Magic Cost * 1.25])*(0.6 + [0.4 * Current Fatigue / Max Fatigue]). It's easy to see that it is probably *(0.6 + [0.4 * Current Fatigue / (Strength + Willpower + Agility + Endurance]), not recalculating max after it's enhanced. Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 12:17, 17 November 2008 (EST)

(It does not appear to affect Enchantment success rate, or Alchemical success rate or potion quality) 75.58.152.237 02:26, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

(Update: it appears Fortify Fatigue does enhance direct consumption of ingredients. Alchemical effects from eating ingredients when you have a top-heavy Fatigue to Maximum Fatigue ratio are greater than normal.)75.58.152.237 23:40, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Tested it now, and the fortify effect only changes the top half of the fraction, not the max. This is interesting and I'm going to put it in the fatigue article. Lukish_ Tlk Cnt 02:22, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, this calculation is what I have been seeing as well. Looks good on the fortify fatigue page. Eruondr 06:11, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Fortify Fatigue + Drain Attributes

This exploit appears to be especially powerful when you boost your fatigue in conjunction with draining the four attributes from which maximum fatigue is derived, as this skews the ratio even steeper. In toying with this, I can say that it *appears* that when your Agility, Endurance, Strength & Willpower revert to normal while your fatigue is fortified, the Fatigue vs. Max Fatigue ratio stays the same, in the same way as using Fortify Magicka followed by Fortify Intelligence. (Oddly, I also find my Health boosted above normal, and it appears that every time I take what should be damage, it actually boosts the health further. No idea what's causing this.) 75.58.152.237 09:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)