Morrowind talk:A Bet with Galbedir

Rename to Fake Soul Gem

This article has the same name as the original UESP page on the quest. Unless there's a good reason to change it, I don't really think we should. --Ratwar 18:47, 6 November 2006 (EST)

The quest official name is Fake Soul Gem. You can check that by looking at the journal quest listing or in the Construction Set. Furthermore, it has been named as such for a long time now on Mages Guild Quests, since I changed all quest names to what appears in the journal in-game. Frankly, I don't see any reason to change the name back to what it was in the old UESP pages. --DrPhoton 03:11, 7 November 2006 (EST)

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The Construction set has the quest ID listed as MG_Sabotage. When the MG_BCShrooms quest is completed, Ajira states the following in response to the topic duties:

Yes, Ajira has more duties for %PCName. Ajira made a bet with Galbedir...

When the topic bet with Galbedir is selected, Ajira responds:

Ajira made a bet with Galbedir that Ajira would be a Journeyman before Galbedir. Now Ajira must study these mushrooms and write a report. Ajira wants you to give Galbedir a fake soul gem.

When the topic fake soul gem is selected, Ajira responds:

Ajira has made a fake soul gem. Take it and put it in Galbedir's desk upstairs. Galbedir should be coming downstairs to talk with Marayn Dren, so no one will see you do this thing.

At this point the fake soul gem is added to your inventory, and your journal gets updated with this entry:

Ajira gave me a fake soul gem. She wants me to sabotage Galbedir's Journeyman project. I should put the fake soul gem in Galbedir's desk.

When you talk with Ranis Athrys about bet with Galbedir she responds with:

Yes, I know all about their bet. I did the same things when I was an apprentice. You might as well do what Ajira asks.

When you report back to Ajira, she will ask:

Has (Character Name) put the fake soul gem in Galbedir's desk?

At that point, selecting fake soul gem in the dialogue gets the response:

You have put the gem in the desk as Ajira aked? Ajira thanks you.

Your journal also gets updated.

If you check the dialogue under the journal topic bet with Galbedir you get just as many entries related to this quest as you do under the topic fake soul gem. But the quest is triggered with the topic bet with Galbedir, so I fail to see where the "official" name is fake soul gem. Since the quest is triggered with the topic bet with Galbedir a valid argument can be put forth that A Bet with Galbedir is a much more fitting name for the quest.--Hoggwild5 05:49, 7 November 2006 (EST)

With the Tribunal or Bloodmoon expansions, the journal shows a list of the current open quests and the ones you've completed. In this list, this quest is listed as Mages Guild:Fake Soul Gem. This can also be checked in the CS by opening Morrowind.esm and Tribunal.esm or Bloodmoon.esm, go to the journal entry for MG_Sabotage and in the top line of the entries for this quest, you'll find the title. --DrPhoton 07:00, 7 November 2006 (EST)

Photon, instead of going with what is official, I feel that we should go with what appears to be more descriptive. To that end, I think that A Bet with Galbedir is more descriptive. I feel that people playing any version of the game will recognize A Bet with Galbedir, while people without GotY, Tribunal, or Bloodmoon might get confused by the name A Fake Soul Gem. I've helped a number of people over at the Official Forums, and I've never heard this quest refered to as A Fake Soulgem. --Ratwar 09:37, 7 November 2006 (EST)

I can see that poeple playing the game without expansions may see A Bet with Galbedir as a more descriptive name, though they shouldn't have any problems identifying the quest by Fake Soul Gem, since Ajira asks the player to put a fake soul gem on Galbedir's desk. For those with the expansions or GotY, Fake Soul Gem is the name of the quest as it appears in the journal, and so they'll be looking for that. In the end I think we should honor the authors of the game and use the name they intended the quest to have, afterall we don't call Ald'ruhn the Crab City because it's more descriptive (a bit exagerated, but I beleive it shows my point). If you wish we can leave a redirect in A Bet with Galbedir for those without the expansion. --DrPhoton 15:46, 7 November 2006 (EST)

The rule I've tried to follow with the Oblivion quests is that the quest page uses whatever the official name of the quest is, as it appears in the player's journal. So, for example, I moved Oblivion:Chorrol Recommendation to Oblivion:Fingers of the Mountain... even though this quest is the Mages Guild recommendation quest for Chorrol, the offical journal name is Fingers of the Mountain. But redirects should exist for any other commonly used names for the quest (in this example, the Chorrol Recommendation page still exists as a redirect; in lists of Mages Guild recommendation quests, it is still listed as the Chorrol Recommendation). In other words the information should be available in any place where the reader is likely to look for it, but the main page should use whatever seems to be the official name, based on the available evidence.

While I realize that this doesn't completely translate to the Morrowind quests, I would say that if the quest does appear in the journal under the name "Fake Soul Gem" (even if only when the expansions are installed), that probably should be the official quest name. But definitely there should be pages using any other relevant names, which then redirect to that page. And if appropriate, perhaps even both names should be listed on the Mages Guild quest page, so that readers scanning through the list of quests can easily find it no matter what name they expect to find. That's my opinion, at least, based on the arguments presented here. --Nephele 16:11, 7 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks for your input Nephele...There are a number of quests in Morrowind that have been assigned official names in the GOTY edition and the quest names aren't always indicative of either the dialogue for the quest, or the quest itself (example: Lord's Mail is an "official" quest name, but the quest involves obtaining not only the Lords Mail, but Chrysamere -- two activities in one quest). So, I can see where we may have other quest pages with redirects to the "official" page to make it easier to find the quest. Also, there are features available in the PC version that aren't available in the XBox version of the game (like the quest journal....that exists in the GOTY PC version, but not in the GOTY XBox version at all....the XBox version just has a general,catch all journal).

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Proposed Solution

So, based on everyone's comments, I'd like to propose that the "official" title of the quest page be "Fake Soul Gem", with a redirect page called "A Bet with Galbedir", and notations on the Mages Guild and Balmora Quest sections that reflect the quest name as "Fake Soul Gem" with "A Bet with Galbedir" in parenthesis next to the official name. Please comment on the viability of this solution...if everyone agrees, we'll move forward with this, and use this same logic on other quests where the "official" name may be ambiguous or confusing. --Hoggwild5 20:16, 7 November 2006 (EST)

I think that's our best bet. --Ratwar 20:23, 7 November 2006 (EST)

I agree with this solution, and thank you for your understanding. --DrPhoton 03:41, 8 November 2006 (EST)